I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
I caught this too, the pictures are pretty damning too.
So much for the "they were all gone by the time we got there excuse".
On to Plan Zed.
Clinton's fault!
Now that's an October surprise. Filmed evidence and proof the White House LIED LIED LIED!
This has to be the final straw.
Hey, that shady character under sec of defense, John Shaw says the russians and the french took the explosives. Russia today vehemently denied it.
attaturk -
Just posted on this, linking to you.
Also e-mailed your post to Josh Marshall, Atrios, skippy, and TBogg.
Looks like Atrios is already on it.
Hit them with the chair!
THE CHAIR !!!!!!!!!!!
That lying FUCK Bush is busted!!!
Goddamn fucking assholes.
Can't wait to see Hannity spin this.
THE FUCKING CHAIR !!!!!!!!!!!
On to Plan Zed.
attaturk
Zed's dead, baby.
Zed's dead.
On Air America they interviewed someone in charge at KSTP. The station owner also owns the St Paul right-wing radio station.
Wow!
Once again, Minnesota steps up to the plate and takes down the evildoers!
I seem to recall a KSTP radio talk show host who kept a Abu G. prison diary...?
bithches...we give thanks to the lord.
Air America is on the case!
Let's get this out to everyone!
Whoa... Surprise indeed...
I heard Reagan call Bush a LIAR on Tweety last night... When will it end...
Red Sox burst curse
OReally is on tape
OxyContin is,,, well 2 for 3 ain't bad...
Do you suppose we could wire up the Republicans as an alternate energy source with all the spinning they'll do from this?
Chuckle.
Chortle.
Giggle.
Guffaw.
Nice way to start the day!
I'm sorry, and maybe I'm not too bright, but how does this prove that the explosives in question were still there when the 101st got there? And weren't elements of 3ID there 5 days earlier, on the 4th?
What did they find?
What floors me is that the Bush gang is saying the facts aren't in, they are just looking into it. So for a year and a half they did nothing, then when the headlines hit they decided to look into it?
And Bush only learned of this 10 days before the headlines?
EVEN IF YOU TAKE THEM AT THEIR WORD, they are utterly incompetent.
But the evidence is that you can't take them at their word, so they are evil lying AND incompetent.
Do they have video?
MEANWHILE, Bush is using leaks to Drudge to pressure ABC into airing the new terror tape... you know, the one with obviously American guy on it.
READ THIS!!!!!
"Ross and other ABC staffers say they believe that a Bush administration official leaked the story to Internet gossip Matt Drudge as a way of pressuring the network into airing the tape, which would heighten concerns about terrorism in the final week of the president's reelection campaign. They note that whoever gave the information to Drudge had a transcript of the tape."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp.../elections/
2004
KKK Pat who ripped the crap out of his Dem BoBo doll John Kerry, for "beleiving" the NY Times and waving his finger at him "why didn't he check his sources ! How dare he ...",,,at the end of his show he was screaming "The russians did it!"..."We have Breaking News"...then I read this....Can the ultimate idiocy and blindness of the wing nuts be any more pathetic,,,
Kent Brockman gets a scoop!
It's a pretty damning story but... if the SCLM doesn't pick it up and put it in context then...
Well, we know the "press" is incompetent. But the nature of the incompetence must be understood. They get the facts (for the most part) but they never connect them and they have the attention span and memory capability of a gerbil. There is no ability to put facts together from one week to the next let alone shine light on the historical realities of Bush's incompetence.
My guess is that all day today the GOP talking points "maybe the weapons were already gone." will continue to be accepted as a valid riposte to the rational charges of "catastrophic" negligence.
Someone over on DailyKos did some pretty good back of the envelope calculations about how much space HDX and RDX would occupy, given their densities; I wonder how that calculation matches up with the figure of 40 kilos net weight which is clearly visible on the side of one of those crates?
Poppy McCool, YES, we have video!
Click on the link!
Do they have video?
Poppy McCool
Yes. Stills here.
This story won't affect Bush's core of support. They don't actually live in the same reality as the rest of us.
Ignorance isn't bliss,; ignorance is George W. Bush.
American Conservative magazine endorses Kerry!
Otis, that's why WE'RE here.
WE spam this story to the rest of the press. (Air America's already hammering on it -- a sure sign that Kerry's people are also going to be hammering on it.)
WE spam it to our friends, rellies and enemies.
WE get the word out.
WE have the power to take our country back.
Does Sludge have this story up on his site with siren and if not why ? He's a Fair and Balanced guy...
Is the question, "Who sold these weapons to the Iraqis", of any importance? If it were the French, we would certainly know it by now, wouldn't we.
Anybody got a shit-proof umbrella handy? I live in a swing state and somethings about to hit the fan around here!
This link from the Kos comments worked better for me:
http://tinyurl.com/3slmx
Get Your (380 TONS of) WAR On!!!..."
http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/w...u.cc/
war42.html
Right on time! Right on topic!
Tony B.
Note that this incident is April 18, even later than the April 3-10 timeframe that everyone's been obsessing over. The implication is that they were even more negligent than we've given them credit for. Every time you think these people have hit bottom....
One word:
QaQaaugmire.
www.Convert-me.com allows anybody - even those of us without any kind of maths - to really work on those tough comparison problems. You know - if something is '40 kilos net weight' and occupies an area of, say, 1 cubic meter, then how many cubic meters would 350 tonnes cover.
Probably enough to be actually noticed, I'm betting.
I don't care about Bush's core support, except to possibly sterilize them, and certainly to avoid them at all costs, forever...
9:38 am ET today, Maj. Clark Watson is interviewed on MSNBC, discussing preparations for a U.S. attack against Fallujah.
He says his troops will be going in if they are asked to by the Allawi government. Asked if the U.S. would go in without the Allawi request, he says, "I can't imagine that."
Who's that talking about a "global test" again?
Maybe it doesn't count if it's a U.S. puppet regime.
NEWS FLASH - God just told Pat Robertson than w is a liar.
Is the question, "Who sold these weapons to the Iraqis", of any importance? If it were the French, we would certainly know it by now, wouldn't we.
Cass
That's not an important question.
So, the 101st troops opened doors to show the TV crew what was in the bunkers, then left without securing them? So our guys not only found the explosives but made it easier for looters to get to them? Not that it looks to have been tough to break in in the first place.
What a cheneying mess.
Bush is a liar. Tell your friends.
General, I do not give a fuck whether the troops are ready or not. INVADE Fallujah NOW
I cannot physically bear the sound of Bush's voice, nor the bloviation of Limbaugh.
Hit with this obvious (is the video timestamped by chance?) hardcore evidence, what will the giant pillpopper say?
Hit with this obvious hardcore evidence, what will aWolWastrel say?
Hit with this obvious hardcore evidence, the genius who dreamed up "embedded journalists" is no longer on the fast track to the JCS!
If the repugs want to prove their case
"the explosives were gone before the invasion"
and
"the Russians took them" here is how they can do it produce the satellite imagery for the world to see
Otherwise shut the f... up. We don't want to hear any more of you LIES.
Do something!
So, you've worn buttons, read every blog on earth and bought books by Clarke, Woodward, Franken, et. al.
But this is your last chance! Volunteer this weekend to travel to a swing state. Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin...they all need you. If you can't travel, find out about joining a phone bank for even one hour. Reading this site and others is great, but on November 3rd - or 4th or 10th or December 2006 or whenever the election is decided - will you be able to say you did everything you could to make sure that John Kerry won? This site gets hundreds of thousands of hits a day. Let's turn those hits into action!
The time is now. Do something or live to regret it. (Or don't. Bush will probably kill us all, so you won't live with your regret for too long if he wins.)
WHAT THE HELL DO YOU EXPECT THE DAILY KOS BACKED IRAQI INSURGENTS TO USE TO BLOW UP OUR BOYS IN UNIFORM WITH? SPITBALLS?!?!
Sharon, poison that fuck faced weasel Arrafat again, and do it RIGHT this time.
DIVE DIVE DIVE
Will the electorate believe Bush or their lying eyes?
Sharon, that ain't enough. Hit IRAN now.
DIVE DIVE DIVE
This story won't affect Bush's core of support. They don't actually live in the same reality as the rest of us.
This is true, but the hard core Bushists aren't enough by themselves to "re-elect" the little fool. Amazingly some people are only now starting to pay attention in the last few weeks. Glaring examples like this of Bush's incompetence make it less likey that they will buy the crap about how The Leader is "keeping us safe from Terra".
So our guys not only found the explosives but made it easier for looters to get to them?
Then there's this.
We won't know what really happened until Nov 3rd, damnit, so lay off.
Obviously a doctored video and liberal media can't be trusted.
Do you believe our president and his accomplices or your own lying eyes?
Is it time to pull out the Clenis card? The Chewbacca defense?
http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/comment...mments/
c507.htm
interesting read
Well, well, well.....guess that about says it all. Can't wait to get home and watch the fascists squirm!
The footage is now in the hands of security experts to see if it is indeed the explosives in question.
Folks, this better be the right stuff, or we're going to look silly. It sounds like the same stuff, could be, probably is, but... there's nothing definitive in the story to prove it is.
Don't want to discourage anyone, I'm just saying we don't know yet.
One more thing is disturbing.
Until now, I thought they just didn't concern themselves with the site. I thought through their carelessness, they genuinely didn't know when it was looted.
Now, it is obvious that they knew the explosives were still there. It is also certain that large numbers of soldiers knew the explosives were there. It is clear that the administration expects hundreds of soldiers to lie to cover for them. That is awful.
My favorite quote from the article:
Usually it took just the snap of a bolt cutter to get in and see the material identified by the 101st as detonation cords.
"We can stick it in those and make some good bombs." a soldier told our crew.
I'll bet somebody else got the same idea.
And let me get this straight,
If Al Jazeera shows hostage tapes, then they're bad, a tool of Al Qaeda.
But if ABC doesn't show hostage tapes, it's because they're biased against Bush?
Makes lots of sense in Bush-bizarro world.
"Do you suppose we could wire up the Republicans as an alternate energy source with all the spinning they'll do from this?"
LJ 10.28.04 - 9:47 am
Other way around.
After the trials, of course.
Zell N. Hell - ROFLMAO - that was perfect.
A group calling itself Al-Islam's Army Brigades, Al-Karar Brigade, said it had coordinated with officers and soldiers of ``the American intelligence'' to obtain a ``huge amount of the explosives that were in the al-Qaqaa facility.''
You have to wonder if this is a ruse (a US operation), put on hoping the media will jump all over a story that most Americans would not believe. Thereby tainting the whole missing explosives story with this bit of crud.
Watched Hannity troll out a soldier who says he was there with the 101st. It was so sad to see Hannity make this young guy lie for him. Colmes got a set of balls and challenged the kid. The Kid wasnt lying as much as was exposed for being a puppet for the right. Colmes just asked " how could you possibly personally checked all the warehouses?" Hannity is dangerous for this democracy . Facts are facts ......
Whats the matter with the people? I didn't get a blow job.
THE FUCKING CHAIR!!!!! YYEEEAARGGHHHHHH!!!!!
GOP October surprise: Cold war 2 at best, WW3 at worst
Mr. Shaw said foreign intelligence officials believe the Russians worked with Saddam's Mukhabarat intelligence service to separate out special weapons, including high explosives and other arms and related technology, from standard conventional arms spread out in some 200 arms depots.
The Russian weapons were then sent out of the country to Syria, and possibly Lebanon in Russian trucks, Mr. Shaw said.
Mr. Shaw said he believes that the withdrawal of Russian-made weapons and explosives from Iraq was part of plan by Saddam to set up a "redoubt" in Syria that could be used as a base for launching pro-Saddam insurgency operations in Iraq.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/n...22637-
6257r.htm
Can't wait to hear what scottie says!
You mean the markings on the boxes weren't in Russian?
That would make sense ... the Russian special forces only took the boxes they could clearly read.
OH GOD, what do I do now? God, God are you there? This is W talking. Hello, hello......
I'm just glad this is happening in the Twin Cities. My mom was going to vote for Bush... I told her he's a liar. Maybe she'll believe KSTP.
Folks, this better be the right stuff, or we're going to look silly. It sounds like the same stuff, could be, probably is, but... there's nothing definitive in the story to prove it is.
Don't want to discourage anyone, I'm just saying we don't know yet.
Tow
Oh, puh-leeeease. Look at the video. Look at the stills. Read the eyewitness accounts of US soldiers breaking into the bunkers on April 18, 2003.
Jeebus.
What do you mean that we are out of Kool Aid?
Folks, this better be the right stuff...
No. As long as we don't outright claim it's the right stuff. Look, if nothing else, the video shows the utter disreguard the US had in securing explosives at the facility.
I bet George, Dick and Rummy are glad they embedded all of these news crews to DOCUMENT their victory.
Oops they they also document their FAILURES.
Another example of great planning.
Here's a question I haven't seen answered. Just exactly where in the hell did all this explosive shit come from? Was in manufactured in Iraq or did Saddam order it on e-bay?
Whaddaya mean, the Russians might be involved? But I looked into Putin's soul and I know he's a GOOD man. And he endorsed me for president too!
Ahem - according to the film, "box after box clearly labeled 'explosive' in English." As a rule, don't manufacturers generally label items in their local language? Other than French of course, it is still customary to see many things labelled in both French and the local language.... That is to say, um, materiel manufactured in the Soviet Union or Russia would be labelled in um, Russian? Cyrillic script? Even French? Somewhere?
So when CBS airs a story with documents they haven't really authenticated, that's bad, but when ABC holds a videotape so it CAN be authenticated, that's the media's liberal bias?
These people are completely insane.
Here's a question I haven't seen answered. Just exactly where in the hell did all this explosive shit come from? Was in manufactured in Iraq or did Saddam order it on e-bay?
Slothful
Like I told that other guy, that's not important.
Now, move along.
That would make sense ... the Russian special forces only to
ok the boxes they could clearly read.
OT, but the Russians have plenty of Arabic language experts, unlike us. I'm sure everyone attached to the Russian Embassy in Baghdad was fluent in Arabic.
GWPDA - That is a nice observation - why would a French or Russian or German arms manufacturer label things in English?
Kerry's comment for today should be:
Mr. President, you sent our troops into Iraq with no plan to win the peace. You sent our troops in without enough body armor or armored Humvees to keep them safe. And now we learn, you sent our troops in without the manpower, without the intelligence and without the orders to secure the munitions depots that you warned might fall into the hands of the terrorists. And you want to accuse ME of denigrating our troops? Mr. President, HAVE YOU NO SHAME?
the video shows the utter disreguard the US had in securing explosives at the facility
Absolutely, complete incompetence. This is bad for W. no matter what this stuff was.
Dad-blamed blogspot.. still can't get to recent thread w/o going through archive.
If only they had deployed the Zone 5 troops according to Plan B...
News of looting munitions isn't new, just the HDX/RDX and the quantity. I definitely remember early in the war hearing that gobs of Stingers and RPG's disappeared and were being used against us because we secured the Oil Ministry and not the Armories and Weapons Dumps.
I think the appropriate punishment for drudge when it's all over is to force bukkake on him for 2 weeks straight...
Oh wait. Nevermind.
Smitty Werbenmanjensen
Are you #1?
You can't slip a SpongeBob reference past a father of 2 young children...
Heh. Georgewbush.com has been closed for visits by furriners, according to Norways biggest newspaper. I'm in Norway and I can't access it, so it seems to be correct. The Bush campaign has closed the site for foreigners "for security reasons." How ridiculous is that?
check out Juan Cole on this - more evidence that Bremer knew al Qaqaa was looted as of at least april 04.
"GWPDA - That is a nice observation - why would a French or Russian or German arms manufacturer label things in English?"
I bet Kitty "Carlyle" could tell us the truth--were she still alive!
Otter - I remember that too. It really staggers the imagination to think that they are trying to say this stuff wasn't looted. Every goddamned thing was looted in the immediate aftermath of the invasion. That's been known since it started happening.
It was egregiously irresponsible to allow the museum to be looted. Then the library. But since Americans can't seem to wrap their little tiny brains around why that is important, the explosives being looted is what sticks. Whatever, I'll take it.
I'm just getting here and haven't read all the comments. I just heard an MSNBC report that mentioned the Washington Times article about the possibility of the Russians taking the explosives and claimed that the explosives disappeared sometime between the first of March and the first of April, 2003.
Kerry's comment for today should be:
Mr. President, you sent our troops into Iraq with no plan to win the peace. You sent our troops in without enough body armor or armored Humvees to keep them safe. And now we learn, you sent our troops in without the manpower, without the intelligence and without the orders to secure the munitions depots that you warned might fall into the hands of the terrorists. And you want to accuse ME of denigrating our troops? Mr. President, HAVE YOU NO SHAME?
bushwahd --- HA!
The crates are marked "Contract No: CNMR 871111"
I bet there's a paper trail
Tena - looking at the pictures, the explosives are indeed labelled in both French and English - 'explosif' and 'explosive'. The address label is apparently entirely in English.... The thing of it is, while French would in fact occur as a labelling language, English -might- occur as a labelling language, but gee whiz, if the boom-booms were coming from Israel, Russia or China, you'd just think there be some kind of Hebrew, Russian or Chinese letters involved, somewhere. Maybe.
Anyone thought to ask the question about this missing explosives story...
The President has known about this for months. Are they just NOW beginning the investigation when it's doing political damage?? When was the investigation begun?
Anyone thought to ask the question about this missing explosives story...
The President has known about this for months. Are they just NOW beginning the investigation when it's doing political damage?? When was the investigation begun?
Anyone thought to ask the question about this missing explosives story...
The President has known about this for months. Are they just NOW beginning the investigation when it's doing political damage?? When was the investigation begun?
Anyone thought to ask the question about this missing explosives story...
The President has known about this for months. Are they just NOW beginning the investigation when it's doing political damage?? When was the investigation begun?
If Chewbacca lives on Endor, then the weapons must have been gone by the time we got there.
The defense rests.
This explosives fiasco will be the last straw for many undecided voters. Sharpen your crayons Bush and get ready to write your memoirs because you are toast. The October Surprise is that there is no October Surprise. The October Surprise was all a bluff by Rove because he has nothing in his hand to play, so he planted a seed in undecided heads that the GOP had something on Kerry that would dispel once and for all that he was not fit for President. Let me paraphrase President Ford, " On November 3rd our long national nightmare will be over."
Look at the monkey!!
POP!
I guess the answer to where it came from can wait until after it's found.
GWPDA - I think you're right. I also think that it doesn't matter who sold them to Iraq, really. All that matters is what happened to them.
But I agree with you.
pie - any word from the Russians on this yet? I haven't looked any further than Kos so far this AM.
This confirms Bush is a liar but will the Bush cult be listening?
Their minds are full of the rants of Hannity and Limbaugh saying over and over that this story is untrue.
Nevertheless, the more confirmation the better. Iraq will soon be Kerry's problem.
"Oh what a tangled web we weave/When first we practice to deceive" - Sir Walter Scott (Marmion, 180
Well if you can't trust "Eyewitness News" who can you trust?
This is SO perfect...
Look at this key part:
Usually it took just the snap of a bolt cutter to get in and see the material identified by the 101st as detonation cords.
- What were they cutting with a bolt cutter?? Padlocks? IAEA seals?
The Republicans always believed in free enterprise and have ulimited faith in the free market. Indeed the market does work! While Hussein always had his weapons under his tight control, Bush simply released all of the weapons of the world's fourth largest military into a perfectly competitive market. He just privatised it all. I wonder who reaped the profits from the sale?
The WT source who accused the Russians has zero credibility
Read about him here
It occurs to me that if, say, the Washington Times had broken the story, their angle would be, Iraq had dangerous weapons, and the angle here would be, "yeah, but so what? They weren't the WMDs."
I'm no troll. That's just an observation.
And here's another: at least three-quarters of Bush voters STILL believe the Iraq/al-Qaeda link and that he had weapons of mass destruction.
That's so, so depressing.
any word from the Russians on this yet?
Not that I know, but it seems we should be hearing something from them. Although Pootie Poot is georgie's best friend...
Geez, wonder if this stuff came from a Helliburton subsidiary?
Tena,pie, in the Financial Times (of London), the Russians said the story was ridiculous. The link was in one of last night's threads.
Oh brother - someone help with perspective on the Russian thing in the Washington Times. My snide conservative associates are using it to somehow claim it exonerates Bush.
Why does 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS hate Amurika?
Now they're talking about the missing absentee ballots. Broward County has set up a special office and are Fed-Exing ballots to people who haven't received them.
Gee, I bet that costs more than 60 cents to send each one.
this is abc affiliate so i assume the abc news will be ALL over this story shortly..
This is abc affiliate so i assume that abc news will be the lead network in this story
of course i am not holding my breath.
"Russia
The UN investigators found evidence that parts for long-range missiles were supplied to Iraq via a Palestinian middleman. Rosoboronexport, the Russian state-controlled arms export agency, maintained Baghdad sales offices despite the UN arms embargo." (Amnesty International)
Um, the reason it matters as to who sold the materiel is simply that the sellers would be unlikely to be involved in taking stuff -back-....
Karin - thanks for that. I didn't think that Putin was just going to roll over for Georgie. He doesn't like him that much. And Putin, being Putin, wouldn't do it even if Bush was his bitch. Putin takes care of Putin.
Dandaman x 4
patience is a virtue on a blog. Pressing "okay" once is usually enough...then just wait...like we've been waiting to get rid of these fascist fuckwitz
Whoops. Russia responds and ain't happy:
MOSCOW - Russia on Thursday slammed as “made-up nonsense” a report that its forces removed the explosives missing from a military base south of Baghdad before the March 2003 US invasion.
“It is impossible to consider such reports in a way other than made-up nonsense,” said Vyacheslav Sedov, a spokesman for Russia’s defense ministry.
“I officially declare that the Russian defense ministry... cannot be connected with the missing explosives, since Russian military personnel left Iraq long before the Anglo-American military operation in that country,” the Interfax news agency quoted him as saying.
The comments followed a report in the Washington Times late Thursday that said Russian special forces “almost certainly” removed the explosives and sent them to Syria, Lebanon and possibly Iran.
I found the FT article
They also say
Mr Shaw, who heads the Pentagon’s international armament and technology trade directorate, has not provided evidence for his claims and the Pentagon distanced itself from his remarks.
Anybody else finding the website blacked out?
Al Qaqaa is an explosives (HMX/RDX) site. But what about the real nuclear sites, monitored/tagged by IAEA?
Did we secure them? NO. I think this should also be a big story. Read the wapo (May 4, 03) story below. Also, Modo wrote in NYT today about Peter Galbraith's op-ed in yesterday's Boston Globe about HIV/bio labs being looted too in the aftermath of the war. Has anyone read Galbraith's article? Would someone kindly link/post it here?
Wapo (May 4, 03) on nuclear sites
* * *
Published on Sunday, May 4, 2003 by the Washington Post
Iraqi Nuclear Site Is Found Looted
U.S. Team Unable to Determine Whether Deadly Materials Are Missing
by Barton Gellman
NEAR KUT, Iraq, May 3 -- A specially trained Defense Department team, dispatched
after a month of official indecision to survey a major Iraqi radioactive waste
repository, today found the site heavily looted and said it was impossible to
tell whether nuclear materials were missing.
The discovery at the Baghdad Nuclear Research Facility was the second since the
end of the war in which a known nuclear cache was plundered extensively enough
that authorities could not rule out the possibility that deadly materials had
been stolen. The survey, conducted by a U.S. Special Forces detachment and eight
nuclear experts from a Pentagon office called the Direct Support Team, appeared
to offer fresh evidence that the war has dispersed the country's most dangerous
technologies beyond anyone's knowledge or control.
In all, seven sites associated with Iraq's nuclear program have been visited by
the Pentagon's "special nuclear programs" teams since the war ended last month.
None was found to be intact, though it remains unclear what materials -- if any
-- had been removed.
Enclosed by a sand berm four miles around and 160 feet high, the Baghdad Nuclear
Research Facility entombs what remains of reactors bombed by Israel in 1981 and
the United States in 1991. It has stored industrial and medical wastes, along
with spent reactor fuel. Though not suitable to produce a fission bomb, the
highest-energy isotopes here, including cesium and cobalt, have been sought by
terrorists interested in using conventional explosives to scatter radioactive
dust.
One team member said the quantities measured today would not suffice for that
purpose, but others expressed doubt that the survey was complete. It was
impossible to determine what may have been removed -- by unknowing looters, by
knowledgeable thieves bent on black-market trade or by former Iraqi officials
seeking to conceal evidence of banned weapons programs.
The most important looted nuclear site, less than a mile down the road, is the
Tuwaitha Nuclear Research Center, where U.N. weapons inspectors had catalogued
tons of partially enriched uranium and natural uranium -- metals suitable for
processing into the core of a nuclear weapon. Iraqi civilians have stripped it
of computers, furniture and much equipment
Someone better tell MSNBC to update its fanta...report.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch....
Jobless claims jump 20,000
KSTP, first station to ever have regularly scheduled TV news. Nice to see a local station break it open- I saw this on the morning news.
the russian government has vehemently denied any involvement.
Damn you pie and your rapid Russian denial posting!
[shakes fist]
Here's another version:
Russia angrily denied allegations Thursday that Russian forces had smuggled a cache of high explosives out of Iraq prior to the U.S. invasion in March 2003.
Defense Ministry spokesman Vyacheslav Sedov dismissed the allegations as ``absurd'' and ``ridiculous.''
``I can state officially that the Russian Defense Ministry and its structures couldn't have been involved in the disappearance of the explosives, because all Russian military experts left Iraq when the international sanctions were introduced during the 1991 Gulf War,'' he told The Associated Press.
Wapo (May 4, 03) continued:
Iraqi civilians have stripped it
of computers, furniture and much equipment; whether dangerous nuclear materials
were taken is unknown.
U.S. authorities do not know what is missing, if anything, because of an ongoing
conflict between the Bush administration and the Vienna-based International
Atomic Energy Agency, as well as a dispute within the administration about how
much to involve the IAEA in Iraq. The unresolved struggle has kept U.S. forces
out of Tuwaitha's nuclear storage areas, but a brief outdoor inspection on April
10 found the door to one of them had been breached.
The special nuclear team that surveyed the Baghdad facility this morning had
been eager to make the trip for weeks.
Twenty-three days ago, a smaller U.S. survey team passed by and recommended an
immediate increase in security. The following day, April 11, the IAEA listed
this site and Tuwaitha as the two requiring the most urgent protection from
looters. U.S. Central Command sent a detachment of the Army's 3rd Infantry
Division to control the facility's gate.
Rolling in at 8:15 a.m. today, accompanied by two reporters, Navy Cmdr. David
Beckett said U.S. troops were reported to be securing the gate. Beckett's master
sergeant, a Special Forces soldier who asked to be identified only as Tony,
hopped out of the driver's seat and spoke to the lieutenant on duty.
"I don't believe this," he said, returning. "They let workers in here for the
past week!"
"Local workers?" Beckett asked.
"Yeah," Tony said.
Employees of the research center -- or Iraqis who said they were employees --
had been coming in by the score for more than two weeks. The 3rd Infantry's
security detail had no Arabic speaker and could not verify their stories. In
addition, looters had been scavenging inside continuously since U.S. forces took
control. At the peak, there were 400 a day. On Friday, the U.S. soldiers
detained 62 of them, but many more got away.
"Looters, they see us in Bradleys or on foot," said Capt. Blaine Kusterle, a
platoon leader in Alpha Company. "They can outrun us easily because they have a
300-meter start."
Not far inside the complex, a fraction of the plunder -- whatever Kusterle's men
had managed to wrestle back -- lay strewn about. An acre of laboratory equipment
sat by the roadside: a Braun sedimenter, an autoclave, a Nikon photo microscope,
toxic gas monitors, a machine to measure tiny particles with laser diffraction.
The first hint that dangerous isotopes might be loose came when a monitor began
beeping in the rubble. In a shallow hole protected by sandbags, the men found a
yellow crate, shaped like a toolbox, that bore the warning, "CAUTION RADIOACTIVE
MATERIAL." A nuclear-trained special operator named Rick -- all the men except
Beckett gave only first names -- pulled out a suitcase-size detector. The box
was throwing gamma rays, but nothing too dangerous.
What both
A Smoking Gun?
These Mutha Fockers make the Nixon gang look like a bunch of rank amateurs.
These are the crookest muther fuckers on the face of the earth.
What is amazing is that the Washington Post (Woodward and Bernstein) busted Nixon's ass for less than this; now they are just using the Bush White House to sell papers and books. Now they are pulling their punches and laughing all the way to the bank.
Oh brother - someone help with perspective on the Russian thing in the Washington Times. My snide conservative associates are using it to somehow claim it exonerates Bush.
Tena - looking at the pictures, the explosives are indeed labelled in both French and English - 'explosif' and 'explosive'.
GWPDA 10.28.04 - 10:19 am
The label (orange) with "explosives" is an internationally required shipping label. You buy them in rolls at the specialty store for various hazardous substances. Just as you might have dual use labels (spanish/english) on goods in America, I don't think that it would be all that different abroad. This label might be good for determining region but not necessarily source.
freepers are freekin!!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focu...s/1259925/
posts
I sure hope this is the smoking gun. But, even if it isn't the smoking gun it is a staggering report that the place was not gaurded even when large amounts of explosives had been found there.
By the way, Cindy Brucato, the anchor of KSTP news, was once the Republican spokesman, if memory serves, for Governor Arne Carlson. She is not some member of the liberal media by any stretch.
"sniff...sniff...Dick, you said we were gonna win...what happened with that Diebold thing, that was in the bag--Mr Diebold himself said so"
"Well, there's only so far you can take these things, Mr Pres--George. There were so many things coming down against us at that moment that we decided to take the long view. We'll let Kerry burn up political capital trying to resolve this war, and the economy and deficits. We're due for another terror attack, and better on his watch than ours. Karl has it all worked out, and the Fox/Limbaugh propaganda arm will continue fighting the good fight."
"What about 2008? Can I run again then? Laura said that's been done, she read it in a book once?"
"Probably not, sir. We expect Hillary to make a run at the Democrat nomination, crippling Kerry for good and we believe Jeb! will be a new strong face of the party,"
"Aw, Dick...I wanted to be the first two term Bush! It isn't fair!"
"Sometimes, George, you have to put personal ambitions aside for the good of the country. I told my daughter that a long time ago, the night Lynne and I concieved her. Now, please, finish packing, sir."
Spam this to EVERYONE. EVERYONE.
Wapo continued:
What bothered the team was that one radioactive leak might mean there were
others.
Kusterle, the company's NBC officer -- responsible for nuclear, biological and
chemical hazards -- told Beckett that an Iraqi had come to the gate claiming
that the head scientist here before the war had "worked on anthrax and buried an
anthrax culture machine here."
"Are there any signs or reports of dead animals in the area?" Beckett asked.
"No," Kusterle said.
"Has [military intelligence] been called in?"
"No."
Beckett took the scientist's name and moved on.
The team took another road, armed with heavy machine guns and rocket-propelled
grenades. Using a bathtub-size instrument that recorded time and location with
each measurement, they began to build a three-dimensional radiation map of the
site. Beckett, who directs special nuclear programs at the Defense Threat
Reduction Agency (DTRA), made a more targeted survey.
He headed first for Osirak, the French-built research reactor that Israel
destroyed just before it became operational in 1981. From a distance, the
reactor's three towers and supporting bulk looked almost intact, though the
cooling-pump building listed 45 degrees. Up close, the reactor was an empty
hulk. A wall mural of a heroic Saddam Hussein -- with the gleaming reactor on
one side and pharaonic splendors on the other -- stood amid the rubble.
Beckett climbed what appeared to be a bunker built up from the ground, covered
by a sloping metal roof. A device the size of a TV remote control began
vibrating at his ankle, and indicators lit for gamma and neutron bombardment.
Beckett crawled under the low-slung roof and found what he estimated to be four
rows and 20 columns of buried drums, each with a massive lid bolted flush to the
ground.
An expert close to the IAEA's Iraq Action Team said the location of those drums,
recorded with a reporter's hand-held global positioning device, corresponded to
what the agency calls Building 39, a permanent storage site for low-level
nuclear waste.
A more dangerous find by Beckett's team came in a black corrugated metal shed
next to a low stone storage area, a site known to U.N. inspectors as Building
55. The IAEA lists those structures as "mechanical workshops and stores." But an
Army Special Forces captain named Drew said he got "a huge spike" on his
detector from 15 feet away, and he pinpointed a metal storage cylinder the size
of a small fire hydrant. There were more of them, and they were corroding. The
lock on the shed's door had been forced open.
"I'm getting thorium," Rick said, reading the energy spikes on his monitor. Then
came cesium and cobalt. Short-term exposure to particles of those radioactive
metals poses no serious threat, but they can be dangerous if inhaled.
"All right," Beckett called out. "Everybody who was inside that place, just go
and stand over there." He checked them for cont
mars bitches. There is a poll on Hardball.
"growing scandal" or "wild accusations"?
well bitches we have the tapes. Please pop a comment in the box bellow the poll. Bush has lied for the last time. At least while in office. impeach the chimp!
rlrr,
Indeed, I WAS no. 1! And please, never call me Smitty Werbenjaegermenjensen, because only Mr Krabs would get it wrong.
Link for the above wapo article:
http://www.commondreams.org/head...s03/0504-
11.htm
The key is that they found "detonation cords."
What are those, and what is in them?
Try googling: "Detonation cord" hmx rdx petn
Game, set, match.
The Washington Times has less credibility than the National Enquirer IMHO.
jimmiraybob - Absolutely true. It's just that there seems to be a certain absence of other languages involved....
I mean, we just may not be seeing them of course.
This is off topic, but an aware member over at dkos noticed that the new Bush ad uses doctored pics of soldiers:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/20...10/27/22442/
878
OK guys, the spinning machine has started: http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsi...10/
s1230248.htm
It seems now that it has been removed before by the russians and that it was far less...
"The Washington Times quotes a US Defence Department official saying that Russian special forces working with Iraqi intelligence "almost certainly" removed the explosives and other ordnance from the site."
&
"The news channel says it has obtained a confidential document from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) dated January 14, 2003.
It says the document shows that IAEA inspectors reported a little more than three tons of RDX explosives at Al-Qaqaa. "
...
Holden Caulfield, it's a rare occasion that anyone beats you to the punch. 
From Hunter Thompson, courtesy of The Independent:
"Back in June, when John Kerry was beginning to feel like a winner, we had a quick rendezvous on a rain-soaked runway in Aspen, Colorado, where he was scheduled to meet a harem of wealthy campaign contributors. I told him that Bush's vicious goons in the White House are perfectly capable of assassinating Nader and blaming it on him. His staff laughed, but the Secret Service men didn't. Kerry suggested I might make a good running mate, and we reminisced about trying to end the Vietnam War in 1972.
That was the year I first met him, at a riot on that elegant little street in front of the White House. He was yelling into a bullhorn and I was trying to throw a dead rat over a black-spike fence and on to the President's lawn. We were angry and righteous in those days, and there were millions of us. We kicked two chief executives out because they were stupid warmongers. We conquered Lyndon Johnson and we stomped on Richard Nixon - which wise people said was impossible, but so what? It was fun. We were warriors then, and our tribe was strong like a river. That river is still running. All we have to do is get out and vote, while it's still legal, and we will wash those crooked warmongers out of the White House."
Sounds good to me.
So to sum up, the only 'evidence' of the Russians taking anything is that this one nutjob, who is a proven liar, says it's "almost certainly" true. I don't see why anybody would be taking it seriously.
Totally irrelevant where the stuff came from originally, and who took it. It disappeared because the inspectors and IAEA, who were watching the weapons sites, were forced to leave Iraq, by the US.
Now sorry you all for the mess we made
It'sa way we figger that poker's played
Keep yer stinkin' Eye-raqi sand
Don't you fer'ners understand?
We'll all be free
's 'mocracy!
Now drop that RPG
And it's one, two, three
What are we fightin' for?
Don't ask me I don't give a damn
Next stop Eye-raqistan!
And its five, six, seven
No! No! Guantanamo Gate!
Who started this row?
All hat! No cow!
Whoopie! We're all AWOL now!
Come on bloggers around the globe
Post yer comments - and lock 'n' load
Come on journalists,
You know who you are
Bring the feathers and bring the tar!
Up on a rail
Heh Chimp! No bail!
AWOL a hitch in jail!
And it's one, two, three
What are we fightin' for?
Don't ask me I don't give a damn
Next stop Eye-raqistan!
And its five, six, seven
No! No! Guantanamo Gate!
Who started this row?
All hat! No cow!
Whoopie! We're all AWOL now!
So to sum up, the only 'evidence' of the Russians taking anything is that this one nutjob, who is a proven liar, says it's "almost certainly" true. I don't see why anybody would be taking it seriously.
Let's remind the wingnuts that the man provided no evidence to support his accusations. He said it, and everyone is just supposed to believe it.
A familiar, oft-used Bush administration ploy.
OMG! Do you realize... a local, blow-dried TV NEWS OPERATION (read: generally lamers) just put the final nail in the Bush coffin? This can only mean one of two things:
1. There IS a God! (Forgive me!! I screwed up!!!);
2. Paul Wellstone just got his revenge.
This is SO sweet. There's a lotta champagne around the Eyewitness Newsroom, this morning ("I smell... PEABODY!! whoopee!")
(Bush Crime Family... busted by Eyewitness News??? Pinch me!)
I watched the video and noticed that there were no precautions being taken, such as hazmat suits. Why was there no concern over possible WMD's? Had they concluded that soon that there were none?
Only one point..... Nail, Coffin. 'nuff said.
McAdder, that's so ... SCLM. Reality is now "wild accusations."
I was at a party last night with intelligent people, one of whom is a conservative I really respect. the consensus in the room is, "Well, they're both liars, so everybody's going to vote their party affiliations anyway."
The next sound you heard was my head popping off and exploding.
Jesus fucking Christ.
A.
OT - Is anyone organizing a photo project to document the voter-challenge effort by the GOP? It seems to me that in Ohio, an effort to photograph every one of the 3,600 republican "challengers" each blocking a mile-long line of minority voters, would be a priceless historical record of 1950's tactics in the 21st century.
Let's see em spin this one.
Ouch.
This is a real test of Karl's spinnative powers.
Can we have another debate? Pretty please? Man, Kerry is going to blast (no pun intended) Bush on this one.
This one is blowing up in their faces.
This one should light a fuse for KErry. This one is dynomite.
Etc., and so on.
looking at the pictures, the explosives are indeed labelled in both French and English - 'explosif' and 'explosive'.
It looks to me like it says "ekplosiv" and "explosive" - that appears to be Dutch? or something - not French.
As one of TheOaf said over at rising hegemon said -- maybe the SCLM could ax Ahmed Chalabi where this crap came from. Of course, if they can't find his number, they could ax "Germy" Judy Miller.
are any cable news shows covering this...?
In Dutch it's "explosieven" of "ontplofbaar" so it ain't dutch
Peter Van P ( Belgium )
Russia is the new ETA.
And Assad the American? That's just Cheney in a fake beard.
OT
Seymour Hersh: Man On Fire
By Lakshmi Chaudhry, AlterNet. Posted October 27, 2004.
http://www.alternet.org/mediacul...aculture/20309/
Hersh speaking about Nov 2nd
I hope it comes out the right way in the election. If it doesn't then we're all in trouble. The Europeans so far give us a pass on the grounds that, well, you've got these crazy leaders and they do crazy things. But if we re-elect them, then it's not just the president they're mad at. They're going to be mad at all of us.
Boy,
it sure looks like Dr. ElBaradei tossed the Bushies a tar baby on this one!
Way to go, Mohammed!
You teach them to fuck with their intelligence people!
Punch harder George!
Tell another lie!
Maybe it will get even worse (giggle).....
Let's see em spin this one.
Spin it? Spin it???? They don't need to spin anything. I wager that this will be in the memory hole by the evening news.
Boo-ya!
ROFL. Freepers are hilarious:
To: JJDPower
You would have to understand Channel 5 out of the Twin Cities...
They are ABC affiliated, and while they are not as bad as Channel 4 (CBS), their bias is extreme hard left.
For an example of this, you just need to watch about 60 seconds. They fawn over everything that Kerry does --- and they hyperventalated this week over some actor who came to the cities for skerry.
Now compare that to 4 years ago, GWB makes his first visit to MN (normally no GOP pres candidate ever visits MN). First they covered Gore's visit to Florida for 5 minutes and then briefly mentioned that GWB stopped in MN
HUH ??? oh yea, no bias there. The first stop by a presidential GOP candidate in years if not decades and they cannot bring themselves to talk about it
OK OK, rant off now
56 posted on 10/28/2004 7:37:24 AM PDT by coder2
KSTP extreme hard left! Bwaahahahah! That's fucking rich, Hubbard's a staunch Republican. But he's always banked on having a news department that actually went and found news, and he's Republican enough to put profit before party.
In case this hasn't been noted already,
a splendid idea - by a former Gore
speechwriter:
Send Bush To Baghdad
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/
2...ain651761.shtml
"GWPDA - That is a nice observation - why would a French or Russian or German arms manufacturer label things in English?"
Just a guess, but maybe it's an international convention, like airlines using English.
English: the official international language of demolition.
"I smell... PEABODY!! whoopee!"
Barry Champlain | Email | Homepage | 10.28.04 - 10:42 am
Or at least, a Polk?
I'm having trouble absorbing the logic of Giuliani-- to assume the weapons were looted, after the US invaded Iraq but didn't secure AlQaqaa despite warnings from the IAEA, is crazy, but just asserting the weapons were "obviously" taken before the US got to Al Qaqaa despite rebuttal from real time news accounts,Iraqis, military personnel, the IAEA & David Kay who have more actual knowledge than Giuliani is a plausible & definitive explanation for what occurred.
I'm having even more trouble understanding how tricking people into believing the weapons were taken before the US invasion exonerates Bush. The wingers act as if the weapons were gone before, then there was absolutely no reason for anyone to find out & worry until October 2004. Why doesn't anyone discuss this? The only chatter is about when they went missing ignoring the bigger picture--no explanation exonerates Bush.
In May 2003, when Bush was prancing about the carrier with his Mission Accomplished sign he could have added the caveat "except for finding those explosives that insurgents are going to use to blow up the lucky troops forced to remain in free Iraq."
This previously looted explanation also does not explain why Bremer did nothing after being told or why Iraq was pressured to keep this from the IAEA.
This is what I hate about the media the missing weapons story is now "On one hand, democrats say the US allowed Al Aqaqaa to be looted after we liberated Iraq & made them free. On the other hand, republicans charge that democrats are desperate people who will say anything and blame our troops. Those weapons were obviously spirited out of Al Aqqaa before the liberation and there was nothing Bush could have done about it at anytime including now." Up next, Ashley Simpson.
Explosives labels and languages....
And why it sorta matters about the origins of this lot. Um, there was a pretty fair embargo at the time...
Hell, every owner's manual for everything from a clock radio to a 747 comes in a half dozen languages.
Did anyone see Al Franken last night on Sundance?
They had a brief interview with Naomi Kline, about James Baker and the incredible conflict of interest Baker has been caught in, as on the one hand, Baker is globetrotting to get other nations to forgive Iraq's debt, and on the other hand, Baker is the go to guy in a Carlyle scheme that would get money to pay Kuwait's war reparations, which in turn brings ONE BILLION BUCKS in to the investment coffers of Carlyle!
I admit to being behind the news cycle about this, but I have to agree with Franken, "This Stinks!" This is a shamful display....from that wonderful guy who brought you...."Chimpy..The Presidency Years."
"OMG! Do you realize... a local, blow-dried TV NEWS OPERATION (read: generally lamers) just put the final nail in the Bush coffin?"
It's even better then that. Remember these in-bed with reporters were there soley as a propoganda arm of chimpco.
Delicious.
But if we re-elect them, then it's not just the president they're mad at. They're going to be mad at all of us.
They might give us a pass when the extent of the fraud is known by this time next year. And it's gonna be unprecedented. Hell, it probably already is. Florida is already a mess.
USAF vet: Hersh is so right. Mentioned this yesterday, but my boyfriend is visiting family in Paris this week and all his friends/ acquaintances/ strangers in cafes are counting on us voting Bush out because they can't fathom we would be retarded enough to "re-elect" him. They will NOT understand and an even greater rift will develop if we let the bastards steal this one too.
FUBAR FUBAR FUBAR
Here comes the science:
1. RDX and PETN are primarily used in blasting caps and detonators (both have a detonation velocity of more than 27,000 ft/sec). When desensitized, they can be used as a booster charge for other explosives or devices, such as mines or artillery shells. RDX is a Division 1.1 D
Explosive.
What is 1.1?
"Consists of explosives that have a mass explosion hazard. A mass explosion is one which affects almost the entire load instantaneously.
'D' Secondary detonating explosive substance or black powder or article containing a secondary detonating explosive substance, in each case without means of initiation and without a propelling charge, or article containing a primary explosive substance and containing two or more effective protective features."
2. The picture provided by the MN TV station shows an orange lable on the tub of explosives indicating the following - 1.1D. - the exact code used for RDX.
3. What are RDX "boosters" used for...wait for it...
"An IED typically consists of an explosive charge, possibly a booster charge, a detonator and a mechanism either mechanical or electronic, known as the initiation system."
Gleaned from the internet. Hope this proves to be our Buckhead moment.
MEANWHILE, Bush is using leaks to Drudge to pressure ABC into airing the new terror tape... you know, the one with obviously American guy on it.
Leaks to Drudge? Hmm, Chris Vlasto, anybody?
Interesting that in the Kurtz article Chris Isham is supportive of what ABC is doing. Although the head of the investigative unit, and a friend of the late John O'Neill (if you recall, he was in that Frontline special), Isham is pretty avid Republican. It is good to see that he is a journalist first, and not a Republican operative like that other Chris.
GWPDA, the origins don't matter, and the labels on it don't matter. This is what the freepers are obsessing over. Don't get hung up on that crap.
Florida is already a mess.
Those people are incompetent assholes. After all the controversy and outrage in 2000, we would hope that they would have at least made an effort to improve the election process. Instead, it's one fuck-up after another.
Another Bush who can't get the job done.
swifferboat: I don't think they will give us a pass at all because they have a long strong and proud tradition of rioting and marching to keep their leaders from pulling shit like this. In the past 20 years, the French leaders have repeatedly tried to take back some of the social benefits and it always fails because of immediate strikes, riots and marches in the streets. They won't understand why we would allow it to happen.
Here comes the science:
1. RDX and PETN are primarily used in blasting caps and detonators (both have a detonation velocity of more than 27,000 ft/sec). When desensitized, they can be used as a booster charge for other explosives or devices, such as mines or artillery shells. RDX is a Division 1.1 D
Explosive.
What is 1.1?
"Consists of explosives that have a mass explosion hazard. A mass explosion is one which affects almost the entire load instantaneously.
'D' Secondary detonating explosive substance or black powder or article containing a secondary detonating explosive substance, in each case without means of initiation and without a propelling charge, or article containing a primary explosive substance and containing two or more effective protective features."
2. The picture provided by the MN TV station shows an orange lable on the tub of explosives indicating the following - 1.1D. - the exact code used for RDX.
3. What are RDX "boosters" used for...wait for it...
"An IED typically consists of an explosive charge, possibly a booster charge, a detonator and a mechanism either mechanical or electronic, known as the initiation system."
Gleaned from the internet. Hope this proves to be our Buckhead moment.
Ron Burgundy Strikes Back.
Here comes the science:
1. RDX and PETN are primarily used in blasting caps and detonators (both have a detonation velocity of more than 27,000 ft/sec). When desensitized, they can be used as a booster charge for other explosives or devices, such as mines or artillery shells. RDX is a Division 1.1 D
Explosive.
What is 1.1?
"Consists of explosives that have a mass explosion hazard. A mass explosion is one which affects almost the entire load instantaneously.
'D' Secondary detonating explosive substance or black powder or article containing a secondary detonating explosive substance, in each case without means of initiation and without a propelling charge, or article containing a primary explosive substance and containing two or more effective protective features."
2. The picture provided by the MN TV station shows an orange lable on the tub of explosives indicating the following - 1.1D. - the exact code used for RDX.
3. What are RDX "boosters" used for...wait for it...
"An IED typically consists of an explosive charge, possibly a booster charge, a detonator and a mechanism either mechanical or electronic, known as the initiation system."
Gleaned from the internet. Hope this proves to be our Buckhead moment.
" an orange lable on the tub of explosives indicating the following - 1.1D."
An orange label which is mandatory under both US DOT and UN International regulation, dating from 1997.
Ergo, the shipment was made in compliance with both, by organisations/companies/countries who placed the shipment.
Ergo, the shipment was not in any way secret.
Ergo....
Is it norwegien?
Holy Shit.
Atrios, chec out what Richard S. just posted! Now!
He's shown that the stuff in the KSTP video is RDX explosives!
Is it norwegien?
Jake Nelson, that ties into something I've been seeing for a while now, with the rise of Air America and the Daily Show: for a long time I think these people thought there was no money in being anything but staunchly pro-Bush. The Democrats bought into this, too (see McAuliffe, Terry and Daschle, Tom).
But once people see that there's really money in doing good stuff like this, we'll see more of it.
I hope. I do not expect. But I hope.
A.
Joe Biden last night on Larry King:
And in addition to that, here's what it comes down to. I say to Bill Safire, Bill, we know we knew about this site. It was a prime site that we had targeted as the place where maybe nuclear weapons were being made, and yet nobody knew whether or not these weapons were missing according to the White House until October of this year. That's what the White House is saying. That's what Scott McClellan said. Now, I ask you, why did we not know? Is not that incompetence that we didn't go immediately to that site knowing it was a nuclear facility, knowing this stuff is the stuff of which you can detonate nuclear weapons, that is, a conventional explosive to ram together two pieces of highly enriched uranium to cause a thermo-nuclear explosion, and we knew there were over 300 tons of it, why did someone not go and see if it was still there?
SAFIRE: That's a long question, Joe.
BIDEN: Real simple, Bill, why wasn't someone there to know whether or not it was missing and when it was missing.
He nails it.
"Gleaned from the internet. Hope this proves to be our Buckhead moment."
Expect John Ashcroft at your door. They watch the internets very closely. And libraries.
I'd like to believe Richard Succer, and I hope he is sincere.
But the last part of his screen name has me a bit worried . . .
Sucker?
Maybe I'm just Roved out.
He's shown that the stuff in the KSTP video is RDX explosives
Anonymous, I don't think he has quite shown that yet...
but the gun is really starting to smoke like a motherfucker!!
From faux news via AP:
Group Claims It Has al-Qaqaa Explosives
Thursday, October 28, 2004
BAGHDAD, Iraq — An armed group claimed in a video Thursday to have obtained a large amount of explosives missing from a munitions depot facility in Iraq (search) and threatened to use them against foreign troops.
A group calling itself Al-Islam's Army Brigades (search), Al-Karar Brigade, said it had coordinated with officers and soldiers of "the American intelligence" to obtain a "huge amount of the explosives that were in the al-Qaqaa (search) facility."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/
0,2...,136889,00.html
Athenae,
One of the things Jon Stewart said during his Ken Auletta interview on C-SPAN was that he believed there was a "shitload" (direct quote) of money to be made running a news network that simply reported the news, without all the celebrity hooha and bowtie nonsense. It would be nice, wouldn't it, to be able to turn to a station and simply get news and analysis, without editorializing?
Sigh. A gal can dream...
I'd like to see a picture of an IAEA seal, but that would just be the delightful cherry to place atop this schadenfreude sundae.
It doesn't matter to half the country what new facts are put forth - the White House has already spoken, and even if it was a complete lie, Freepers et al, are convinced that this is just a SCLM ploy to defeat Bush. His actual incompetence is of no interest to his supporters. But, pointing out said incompetence, well now, that's just beyond the pale!
Palooka -
I am for real - post on Morning Sedition and Unfiltered on AAR since they began. Also post my libby mantra on other blogs...
I think that "eksplosiv" is Norwegian - but I don't know if that is important or pertinent. I find it interesting that labeling is in Norwegian and English - did someone buy it FOR Iraq? Or did they use previously purchased materials as trade?
Is it norwegien?
Here's a question I haven't seen answered. Just exactly where in the hell did all this explosive shit come from? Was in manufactured in Iraq or did Saddam order it on e-bay?
Slothfu
I think it was manufactured right there at that site.
HDX/RDX are dual use industrial chemicals. They are used by mining companies as detonators all the time all over the world and are heavily regulated. But they could also be used as a triggering device for nuclear bombs. That's why IAEA was monitoring all the production/storage.
Another use for HDX/RDX is in car bombs, suicide bombers, plane bombs etc, by packing the RDX powder in small plastic casings. RDX was used by terrorists in Indian Kashmir in car bombs and I think it is also used by Palestinian suicide bombers. It was also used in Pan Am Lockerbei bombing.
Dangerous chemical. This type of use is what bothers us all now.
The October Surprise is that there is no October Surprise. The October Surprise was all a bluff by Rove because he has nothing in his hand to play
Unrepentant Fenian
Not so fast, babe. We have five more whole days 'til Election Day. I want to go on record, here... and under the circumstances, I really don't give a crap if I'm proven to be an idiot... as saying that I'm one of the 60-something percent of Noo Yawkers who believe the Bush Crime Family at the very least looked the other way when 9.11 was in progress.
And as such, I think the Bushies are ready to sacrifice New York City in toto, in order to rally a Stupid nation around the fear of terra.
I am often asked, "Can you possibly believe that the president of the United States would KILL his own people, in order to win an election???"
Yes.
So, in case I'm NOT a paranoid mofo, let me bid you all a fond adieu now, and assure you that I will be in a better place... than YOU suckas, under ETERNAL BUSH RULE. HAH! I'll be cavorting with Rodney Dangerfield; y'all'll be in some stuffy office someplace, explaining to a humorless Fed why you posted the seditious crap you did, here...
(But seriously. A lot can happen in 5 days, compadres...)
Palooka -
I am for real - post on Morning Sedition and Unfiltered on AAR since they began. Also post my libby mantra on other blogs...
Palooka -
I am for real - post on Morning Sedition and Unfiltered on AAR since they began. Also post my libby mantra on other blogs...
I'd like to see a picture of an IAEA seal
David Kay said the other night that each individual box was not sealed -- rather areas were -- I am guessing doors. He said it would have been impossible to have a seal on each box -- thousands of them.
"Those people are incompetent assholes"
Glad to see that the Democrats who run the elections in more than 90% of Florida's counties are finally being recognized!
But you know? Not a single one of them is named Bush.
October Surprise...
If they had one they would have sprung it before Florida started voting on the 18th.
We will get no pass from any other country if we re-elect Bush. If this were to occur--AND IT WILL NOT--the result is akin to our accepting and adopting all of these screw-ups and thumbing our collective nose at the world. Abu Ghriab and all. The mind set is much different in Europe and other parts of the world than here--in the US most Americans cannot separate the "government" from "the people." This leads to crap like "freedom fries," boycotts of goods, etc. This is not the case in France, Germany, England, Scandanavia, old Europe, new Europe....they easily differentiate between our government and our people and know that what the government does is not necessarily the will of the people--they know it is politics. But if we re-elect this num-nut and his fellow num-nutz the proverbial blood will be on our hands and the benefit of the doubt will be gone.
Thersites - There you go. They look a lot like the ones the power company slips onto your electric box. Here's one close up.
Okay, Richard, I meant no offense.
As I said, I'm just "Roved" out.
Great catch!
The individual upthread who remembered that Cindy Brucato was the press secretary for Repub. governor Arne Carlson is completely correct. I live in Minneapolis, and back in the day when I still watched local tv news, KSTP was my least favorite by far. Brucato was an anchor there a number of years ago, and I've been sort of surprised that she's returned in the last few months, although I believe that of the three major network affiliates (ABC, CBS, NBC) this one's news programs have had the most problems with low ratings. How ironic if this should turn out to be the smoking gun, although I agree that this report is damning any way one looks at it.
So is this video being shown on any of the cable news outlets yet?
I'm having trouble absorbing the logic of Giuliani...
Guiliani's logic = lie, lie, lie, shamelessly lie.
.
googling suggests an incredible number of companies in the explosives business. if you multiply that times clients there's a hell of a lot of high-energy explosives out there from auckland to archangel. a well-funded insurgency would have access to such things in any case.
i once read that our gis in viet-nam ran a thriving black market business of spare parts, ammo, weapons, etc. it is not impossible that someone saw the profit motive after a bivouac in an explosives plant. other guesses are that locations of iraqi explosives plants were known to many actors any of whom could have helped themselves.
neither bush nor blair were interested in explosives plants in the rush to get to baghdad where they had some sort of appointment with chelabi.
I have hesitations because I live in Mpls and as others have pointed out... it has been quite suspect lately. But if they have the video footage to back it up... They will have my viewership from now on.
But in the past it has been completely conservative leaning (as is every news channel here in the twin cities).
It should be game, set and match Kerry with Americans taking to the streets to demand that SOB's immediate resignation, but there are so few people left to turn away from Bush, despite what seems obvious to us, that it will remain incredibly tight all the way through Tuesday night.
You could have video of Bush fellating Cheney and the fanatics wouldn't care. But, that's OK ... it guards against overconfidence and keeps turnout where we need it. Anything that casts doubt on The Chimpinator's "strong leader" meme will go into the booth with wavering independents before they punch, pull or push.
100,000 Execess Iraqi Deaths Since War"
According to Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.
Seriously - this administration has screwed up so badly, people have been shocked into disbelief... It can't possibly be so bad.. can it?
http://tinyurl.com/3slmx
A 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS crew in Iraq shortly after the fall of Saddam Hussein was in the area where tons of explosives disappeared.
Sorry... put an excess of letters in that headline...
David Kay said the other night that each individual box was not sealed -- rather areas were -- I am guessing doors. He said it would have been impossible to have a seal on each box -- thousands of them.
Right--all I meant was that if the Eyewitness crew had pictures of a door sealed with an IAEA seal, or even one just lying on the ground outside of one of the rooms where the boxes were--that's it, game over.
Bubba: Amen!
(And now, our semi-regular feature, "Blogger Mail"
Or at least, a Polk?
Knead Sum Would
Shut UP! Just SHUT UP!!
I think that "eksplosiv" is Norwegian...
celsus
No, that's simply the way W spells it normally [rim shot]
Ron Burgundy Strikes Back.
Unrepentant Fenian
ROFLMFAO!!! YESssss!! Now THAT'S komedy!!
Barry:
I agree with you but as a New Yorker
you're scaring the shit out of me.
On the other hand, you know what they
say: the up side of a nuclear holocaust
is that at least you don't have to
pay your Con Ed bill.
Meanwhile, my cable is down -- have
the news channels picked up this new
explosives stuff yet?
Oh and as well, here's part of the IAEA evaluation of the materiel in stock at al-Qaqaa....
I think it was manufactured right there at that site.
ecoast 10.28.04 - 11:09 am
Why the shipping labels and what's up with the english?
Why the lables are in English on the explosives in the photos and video tape...
The orange "Explosives" label is mandated by IATA for all air transport items that are considered to be explosives.
English is mandatory.
I think it will be revealed soon that these are not the explosives we hoped to find. Of course that means:
1. BushCo still has no idea what happened to the 380 tons of RDX, etc. - and the site was NOT emptied before the war. And
2. What we are looking at is additional hundreds of tons of explosives of which BushCo doesn't know the whereabouts.
Why the lables are in English on the explosives in the photos and video tape...
The orange "Explosives" label is mandated by IATA for all air transport items that are considered to be explosives.
English is mandatory.
OT; This is good:
http://www.commondreams.org/head...s04/1028-
01.htm
'"He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999," said author and journalist Mickey Herskowitz. "It was on his mind. He said to me: 'One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.' And he said, 'My father had all this political capital built up when he drove the Iraqis out of Kuwait and he wasted it.' He said, 'If I have a chance to invade·.if I had that much capital, I'm not going to waste it....'
Why the lables are in English on the explosives in the photos and video tape...
The orange "Explosives" label is mandated by IATA for all air transport items that are considered to be explosives.
English is mandatory.
I hear Bush is going to be speaking at another dinner...
"Now where did that RDX go... must by around somewhere..."
Cue guffaws.
Labeling (photographs)
1.1 stuff is gunpowder or its equivolent(that's why there were barrels of this stuff).
Odds are that the stuff was manufactured in Czech.
The crates appear to hold primer.
I still have to finish watching the video to see what else was there.
FYI though, this complex was the main munitions production facility for Iraq.
The 380 tons of missing raw unprocessed explosive is just the tip.
nice try, not the material you were wishing for. It would be helpful if someone here had a little knowledge on the matter. Better not to shoot from the hip like Sen. Kerry in the future or you'll end up with his type of reputation.
But you know? Not a single one of them is named Bush.
No, he's ONLY the governor of the state and the President's brother.
No conflict of interest whatsoever.
Overheard in Freeper-land:
Why do Republican-owned television stations in Minnesota hate America?
Why do Republican-owned television stations in Minnesota want to denigrate our brave troops?
The Russians . . . It's the Iraqi's fault . . .
Does not compute, does not compute, does not . . .
[fizzling sound, followed by explosion]
Gee, tomaig. I notice you have nothing to say about the missing weapons.
2. The picture provided by the MN TV station shows an orange lable on the tub of explosives indicating the following - 1.1D. - the exact code used for RDX.
Yes, but it's also used for detcord, TNT, dynamite or even granular black powder. That doesn't say much.
The "eksplosiv" on the label is interesting. That's either Danish, Norwegian or Swedish.
'"He was thinking about invading Iraq in 1999," said author and journalist Mickey Herskowitz. "It was on his mind. He said
to me: 'One of the keys to being seen as a great leader is to be seen as a commander-in-chief.'
Actually, daddy said exactly the same
thing in a TV interview a month or
two into his administration. He
said -- wistfully -- that he probably
wouldn't get a chance to prove himself
as a leader in war.
Scared the shit out of me at the time.
Who's to say that the explosives are simply missing? Perhaps they were expropriated by Halliburton or the Carlyle Group for future misadventures elsewhere (like Africa or South America, where the neocons think it's A-OK to continually attempt coups).
"Better not to shoot from the hip like Sen. Kerry in the future or you'll end up with his type of reputation."
vet - Would you like to go on record now and pit YOUR "reputation" against a war hero whom 50% of America wants as their President?
Everyone go to Drudge and send the link - he obviously needs the help!
Juan Cole was mentioned upthread. Definitely a must read - particularly the commentary on Al QaQaa by Prof Brown of GWU.
Great phrase by Brown: "The reason we don’t know when the explosives disappeared is that we were not securing or monitoring the site. In other words, our lack of knowledge about the date of the disappearance is itself an indication that nobody was watching one of the most important military production sites in the country. Thus, to proclaim now that we don’t know what happened is not evidence of an open mind; it is evidence of an open barn door. Why did Bush wait until October 2004 to look into the matter? The 18 ½-month gap is no more to Bush’s credit than the 18 ½-minute gap was to Nixon’s. It is the absence of evidence that is the problem."
interesting...the rest of the world holds USers, that' us, the citizens, accountable for the people we elect as leaders...who ever woulda thunk it?
The missing explosives are in the area around Baghdad and Tikrit... and to the north, south, east and west somewhat.
And whaddaya know! This time, maybe he's right!
Yes, but it's also used for detcord, TNT, dynamite or even granular black powder. That doesn't say much.
Keith | Email | Homepage | 10.28.04 - 11:29 am | #
RDX is used to make det cord and detonators. RDX is white crystalline or solid red dempending upon use...if used in detonating cord it will be red or pink....
OK, how soon is the CIA gonna confiscate this obvious Terrorist Video?
And why no linkypoo from Drudgiepoo?
OT, but amazing! From PE Week (Private Equity investors...)
Presidential Poll: Readers Pick Kerry
Thank you to everyone who participated in our third, and final, Presidential Poll. The results are unscientific, but represent a significant departure from our first two efforts, which were statistical dead-heats. Without further ado or unnecessary punditry.
Who do you plan to vote for on Election Day?
1. George W. Bush: 46.2% (929)
2. John Kerry: 52% (1,045)
3. Ralph Nader: 0.6% (11)
4. Other: 1.2% (25)
What is you political affiliation?
1. Registered Republican: 34.9% (701)
2. Registered Democrat: 22.2% (447)
3. Independent, but with Republican tendencies: 17.2% (345)
4. Independent, but with Democratic tendencies: 14.8% (29
5. Independent without leanings: 192 (9.6%)
6. Other: 1.3% (26)
What is the single most important factor in determining your vote?
1. Candidate's personality: 9.6% (189)
2. Economy: 28.5% (55
3. Environment: 1.2% (23)
4. Healthcare: 0.8% (17)
5. Homeland security: 16.8% (329)
6. Medical research: 0.6% (11)
7. War in Iraq: 22.5% (441)
8. Other: 20% (393)
Did the televised debates sway your vote?
1. Yes, toward Bush: 4.2% (84)
2. Yes, toward Kerry: 18.1% (364)
3. No change: 72.6% (1,457)
4. Not applicable/didn't watch: 5% (101)
Have you changed your presidnetial preference in the past two months (from one candidate to another, not from undecided to a candidate)?
1. Yes: 6.3% (127)
2. No: 93.7% (1,867)
The preceding poll was conducted on October 25-26, and included 2,010 respondants.
Basic issue is that Rumsfeld and Bush bungled the entry and bungled the stay.
.........
They busted in too quick, they coulda got the region on the side, they coulda got the Turks, the Shia and the Kurds organized, they coulda got local leaders to take charge and keep order.
...........
They kept busting our troops forward, our troops wanted to do it slowly and deliberately they kept rushing them forward and that too on low rations and pitiful water supplies, it is a disgrace.
..........
Anybody who has any doubts should just see the video of dear ole Money Bunny Bartiromo go berserk with a gentle military soul, he wasn’t a general or nothing, he was just regular folks and she pounced on him and hollered, what is taking them so long.
..........
Well, buddy all I can say is Is you happy now, foolish.
..........
Buncha morons and bunglers, what can I say, sooner they are gone the better.
..........
5 more days Baby.
...........
"I wonder how that calculation matches up with the figure of 40 kilos net weight which is clearly visible on the side of one of those crates?
Ray Radlein"
__________________________________
Ray,
In a previous thread, someone mentioned a density of 1.82 g/cm^3 for RDX. Works out to about 120 lb/ft^3. So a 40 kilo box would be ~0.73 ft^3 = 1261 in^3.
A box 12" wide by 36" long would be loaded 3" deep to get to 40 kg of RDX.
The text caption under the 40 kilo boxes suggest they're proximity fuses, not RDX. The barrells at the top with the orange labels appear to be the RDX material, but no weight/mass listing on the stickers, so can't do any good comparison there.
Any information yet as just how it was that the Clenis was able to, not only remove the explosives, but get in and out of Iraq completely undetected?
I'm sorry, and maybe I'm not too bright, but how does this prove that the explosives in question were still there when the 101st got there?
Um, because the 101st was there showing it to news crews? I'll repeat from the story Atrios posted:
During that trip, members of the 101st Airborne Division showed the 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS crew bunker after bunker of material labelled explosives. Usually it took just the snap of a bolt cutter to get in and see the material identified by the 101st as detonation cords.
If the 101st was showing it to people while they were there it was, ipso facto, there when the 101st was there.
I mean, how much more clear can it be?
I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!!!
Hausfrau, Ha, ha, why are you drinking fool.
..........
This is a time to stay happy and sober. .
..........
58,000 ballots lost in Florida.
........
Jesse Helms the Second looming large in Louisiana.
........
Keep the focus folks, gotta keep the focus.
.........
Men's News daily, that misogynist republican rag is dishonestly implying that these munitions are the missing WMDs. I'm wondering if others are as well. This needs to be addressed forcefully or the average voter, which doesn't see things in nuanced terms could believe it.
What is going with Arafat, why does he have low platelets, how low are they.
.........
What are they doing about it.
.........
Have they sent any blood cultures and does he need antibiotics.
........
Further comment, Yes RDX can fall under 1.1 but the barrels shown in the pictures have black chemical not white.
As someone who has handled this stuff before. RDX and HMX is not transported in barrels(Not stable enough).
The small crates shown can be used for HMX transport.
As I say above, this ONE bunker shown in this piece is just the tip.
I have one question for the administration to add to this whole mess.
Removal of the explosives from the al Qa Qaa facility prior to the arival of the US forces would require the involvement of at least a few members of the former Iraqi government and military, not to mention a goodly number of workers. Most of these people have been in US custody for the past year or more. What have we learned from them as to how and when this materiel was taken?
I think everyone here knows that we've learned nothing about from the Iraqis because the explosives weren't removed from al Qa Qaa, but I'd love to see how the adminstration answeres this question.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Men's News daily, that misogynist republican rag is dishonestly implying that these munitions are the missing WMDs. I'm wondering if others are as well. This needs to be addressed forcefully or the average voter, which doesn't see things in nuanced terms could believe it.
Anonymous | Email | Homepage | 10.28.04 - 11:43 am | #
I didn’t think people hadda be a Misogynist to be a Moron, but it shore helps don’t it. .
..........
Ha, ha, ha.
..........
Morons.
...........
Happy + sober? A contradiction in terms, says I. 
If Bush ate a live baby in front of some of these slavish adherent's faces they would still claim it was a fake or some kind of liberal trick. There is no way to convince these people that BushCo is in any way bad. I think there should be some investigation into the possibility of mass brainwashing, and how to deprogram the victims.
I just woke up... so I don't know whether this was posted earlier , forgive if it was.
Anyhow,as someone here mention David Zucker (of "airplane" fame) has crapped his pants and is supporting Bush.
Well the wingnuts are pissing themselves over a new commercial that they say "Kicks ass" "best yet" "devistating"
Well here's the link to the Zucker-mercical
And it should be described as
"Pathetic" "juvenile" "totally weak" "over the line"...
If this is the best they got, they ain't got nothing...
The reason nothing was done once Bush ordered the invasion seems clear now - the Iraq War is a Potemkin War. He started it to boost his political capital. Unfortunately, we have real people dying for his fucking image as a fucking war president.
Hanging is too good, folks.
Usually it took just the snap of a bolt cutter to get in and see the material identified by the 101st as detonation cords.
...One must remember the context. This war was to disarm Saddam so that he couldn't give weapons to terrorists. By invading, and failing to have a plan to secure weapons and explosives caches, they have fallen into the hands of terrorists. This is as complete a failure as one can imagine. Bush supporters can spin like a top, but at the end of the day, this is an abject failure of historic proportions.
This is HUGE, people. KSTP-TV is generally regarded as being a very Republican station: local DFL candidates won't appear on its news shows because the news operation is regarded as being Fox-like in its bias, and the news anchor -- Cyndi Brucato -- does PR advising for local conservatives and served as press secretary for a Republican governor. When the Republican shills have stopped repeating the lies, you know things are bad for the Bushies.
Bottom line is Bushie and Rumsfeld had no ground strategy, they bungled the entry, they did not have a altie plan for bringing in the troops from the North, everyone told them to talk to the Kurds and the Shia, everyone told them these are People who Love Us, Bushie was too busy yawping and making faces into the camera and his airheadness simply couldn’t grasp the essentials.
..........
That is how it looks, sooner the duffer is gone, the sooner we can start to fix the messes he made.
............
Keep the focus Baby.
............
You could have video of Bush fellating Cheney and the fanatics wouldn't care.
I wouldn't care either. I do care about his record of complete incompetence, but I don't care about his sex life. But I take you point.
The "eksplosiv" on the label is interesting. That's either Danish, Norwegian or Swedish.
And the really small print says: Hallibur... something or other.
When the Republican shills have stopped repeating the lies, you know things are bad for the Bushies.
Tom | Email | Homepage | 10.28.04 - 11:49 am | #
First, they see the writing on the wall, second they see how it looks and third and most important, they are devotedly hoping the dear ole Dems will come along and fix it all.
...........
Yes, we will Baby, just move out and let the grown-ups handle it.
...........
If these were the big bad WMDs, how the fuck would that help Bush? He let them get away for christ's sake. Any winger who is stupid enough to push that idea is stupid enough to eat his own shit.
I'm sorry, and maybe I'm not too bright, but how does this prove that the explosives in question were still there when the 101st got there?
Jeebus H. And there's 50 milion more just like that one who will vote for Shrubya Tuesday. Regardless of who wins Tuesday or January or whenever, our nation is screwed because half of it's citizens are embiciles.
Or imbeciles. Shit. I think the troll sutpdidity is rubbing off on me.
See ya later, my sweet Babies.
........
What is going with Arafat, why does he have low platelets, how low are they
~Donning stylish new fall tinfoil chapeau~
I seriously wouldn't rule out poision.
You can run, but you cant hide ... for four years, Bushie. Only Richard Nixon could do that, but he could only manage it for six.
Tena wrote: Hanging is too good, folks.
With which i Whole-heartedly concur. I have long recommended the Mussolini solution: hanging 'em by their heels from Pennsylvania Ave lampposts, their genitals in their mouths, over slow fires. I still got a my trusty Zippo...
Geez the local Air America station is hammering on this!
Suddenly, everyone loves KSTP!
~Waves to Minnie~
Hi, Minnie! You always brighten up the day!
http://www.georgewbush.org/deadl...adletteroffice/
email below sent this early morning and sent to dead mail because they put .org, not .com . . . you know the story right? Notice at the end "The more we challenge the more we get!" referring to Dem votes. See the .gov email address? Isn't it against the law to use your federal email at work for political purposes? Shall we all clog his/their in boxes? Like: I don't know nothing about no stinkin' voter fraud plans. Just remember to put .com or it'll just go to the dead file. I guess the freepers don't know about it yet.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ohio 23rd [mailto:ohio23rd@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 4:56 AM
To: shollings@ohio.gov; cday@georgewbush.org; wanda.price@sbcglobal.net
Subject: NEED DISTRICT UPDATES ASAP!!!!!!!
Carl, Sandra, and staff:
We have redlined the district (that gets us about 70%
of their voters) for challenges but we need the
updated voter maps ASAP! We're still working off of
2000 maps. This is the THIRD email I've sent out on
this people. Let's get it together the electoin is
TUESDAY!!!!
The more we challenge the more we get!
William
Ohio 23rd District Supervisor
ohio23rd@yahoo.com
w.fold@sbcglobal.net
And the really small print says: Hallibur... something or other.
meta truth | Email | Homepage | 10.28.04 - 11:50 am | #
Don't laugh - Haliburton IS a manufacturer of det cord made with RDX...look it up..
These are definitely not WMD, these are conventional weapons. No amount of spin will change that.
troll sutpdidity
Another OT, but good news:
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, after saying they would NOT endorse anyone, has endorsed Kerry. Apparently, all the bad news out of Iraq this past week was too much even for the wimps at MJS and they have defied their right wing owners to go for Kerry.
this cordless keyboard is not that reliable folks...sorry...
previous post
troll sutpdidity
a PERFECT description...BRILLIANT
Don't get caught up in the Republican minutiae and the Bushies' quibbling. Why wasn't the munitions depot taken out early on by a few cruise missiles, a daisy cutter or a cluster bomb? It isn't as though the location of the munitions wasn't known--the IAEA had sealed it. They knew where it was--it would be rather dumb to suspect that the Bushies didn't know where it was. What did they think they were going to preserve it for? Posterity?
Well, it's munitions have apparently been preserved. To attack the occupiers.
Friends, this is completely outrageous. Rudy can blame it on the troops all he wants, but as one military official said, they would've needed four times the troops levels to stay and guard that compound. What would've happened had they found boxes marked "Chemical Weapons"? Were we not given a reason that we were there to remove WMD from Saddam? Bush didn't put enough troops on the ground and it has made all the difference in the world.
This is an administration fuck-up. It is beyond the pale.
How many times has a scene like this happened because of Bush's complete and utter incompetence?: (link - not graphic but extremely disturbing)
and all that high explosive was in the form of white powder!! George Bush and white powder together again.
Don't laugh - Haliburton IS a manufacturer of det cord made with RDX...look it up..
We're not laughing Rich.
Thanks to Ann,
Let's follow her lead and let this freeper "SHOLLING" know this is illegal and he will go to jail!!!
-----Original Message-----
From: Ohio 23rd [mailto:ohio23rd@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 4:56 AM
To: shollings@ohio.gov; cday@georgewbush.org; wanda.price@sbcglobal.net
Subject: NEED DISTRICT UPDATES ASAP!!!!!!!
OT about Early Voting from a Duval County, Fl. voter.
Check your ballots when you "vote early!!!" And if something seems "funny," tell someone!
I decided to vote early at the library down the street from my house. Good news: lots of people there and plenty of poll-workers and observers!
FYI news: The ballots say "ABSENTEE," but the poll-workers assured me that this was normal (because it was an "open" early voter precinct) and that my vote ( we use optical scanners) was going downtown, right then and there, and in "real-time."
HOWEVER, as I was voting I noticed that I was being asked to vote for candidates and amendments that would affect the City of Jacksonville Beach. I live in the city of Jacksonville (proper), about 30 miles *away* from Jax. Beach.
When I went to hand in my ballot, I asked the poll-workers about that and one lady told me that "If it was on my ballot it was probably ok," but the other lady said, "No, No, No, I don't think that is right!"
They had me check the code number on my yellow early voter form (signature required) and it was 006, then they had me check the code on my ballot, and it was 009. Right then and there they had me "step back" and another poll-worker came over and said they would have to SPOIL my ballot. I waited and he came back, and with my "bad" ballot on my lap, he wrote SPOILED in big letters on the front and the back and then took it away while handing me a new, clean, and corrected ballot.
Just FYI in case anyone else runs into this. I don't think anything funny was going on and the poll-workers who helped me where all very sincere and on the "up and up", but you never know!
At least I can say that I got to vote for John Kerry twice! OK, not really(!), one ballot was destroyed, but still, it felt good!
Haven't read this entire thread, but, this is truly amazing. KSTP is owned by Hubbard Broadcasting which has been going in the tank for years here. It is the third news program out of the top three in the Twin Cities market.
That this was caught by a right wing station is absolutely poetic justice!
I believe the phrase is ... hoist on your own petard.
They intended the embedded reporters to serve as propogranda for the war -- but it also has left us with photographic evidence of their incompetance.
Why not film yourself as you commit vandalaism, Karl?
So far no-one is running with this story. What is going on here? CNN, MSNBC, FOX, No one is talking about the KSTP story
Let get over to those "news" site and start pushing
Can Fox News try to spin missing explosive story so it's viewers
believe missing weapons that are of harm to our troops are really a bunch of media outlets trying to pick on bush?
Of course.
Retardicans are so sad they are amusing but this is so sad it's amusing and has gone back to sad again.
Vinnie Vin
http://www.vinnievin.com
I haven't read all the comments but wanted to warn just a bit about KSTP and trusting them. Kstp is owned by Hubbard Broadcasting Co., and Stanley Hubbard's son -- rightwing nuts. They would be more than happy to shovel video "forged" out to the media and get them all in a froth only to yank the rug.
Just wanted to warn about the source for these videos. Seems really strange to me that a rightwing T.V. stations would be putting out video to prove a fact against Bush. Just pointing out some history.
Isn't it obvious, people? The treacherous, traitorous, objectively pro-Saddam news media stole the explosives, and have been doling 'e, out to terrorists ever since. Bombings increase ratings, for one thing. Plus they make Bush look bad, and these cynics hate him because he's a plain-spoken man of God who disdains their postmodern sophistries.
This article is a confession of guilt, as far as I'm concerned...
Explosives were looted after Iraq Invation
UN Nuclear Official Cites Security Lapse
By Farah Stockman, Globe Staff Octobaer 26, 2004
http://www.boston.com/news/world..._iraq_invasion/
Jimmy James: better off feeding that URL into tinyurl.com.
I'm sorry, and maybe I'm not too bright, but how does this prove that the explosives in question were still there when the 101st got there?
You people are still harping on that? Look, you have to understand that it doesn't matter when the explosives were taken.
If they were stolen after the invasion, it means we didn't secure them. If they were stolen before, it means that we let 'em be stolen from the best-known weapons cache in Iraq, despite owning the airspace and having satellites and spyplanes galore.
And just to put the last nail in this coffin, if Saddam was really a "danger" because he could give weapons to terrorists, then Al-Qaqaa needed to be under constant surveillance whether we invaded or not. When you're dealing with someone who's the "new Hitler," and you're in a position to dictate terms, you don't let him transport and hide 380 tons of explosives on your watch.
Is that clear enough for you, bozo?
SelenaP: goes to show that you don't need electronic voting to fark up the electoral process. What's needed is a greater number of electoral officers with some competence, at all levels of the hierarchy.
Anyone else hear Scott Horsely (sp?) on NPR--the reporter assigned to cover Kerry's campaign--say that Kerry is "milking the missing explosives story"?
Incredible. I guess old Scott buys Bush's line that Kerry is making up wild stories, eh?
Here this is for Jimmy...It's the link for my homepage in this post also....
http://tinyurl.com/4ur2b
For that matter, if Saddam and Co had transported the materials before the invasion, Bush could've called in an airstrike on their convoy or on the site itself, used it as a justification for war that almost everyone would've gone along with, and heaped derision on the UN inspectors to boot.
There's no way to spin this thing, kids. Cold hard reality is bashing Bush yet again.
Told ya. Bush=toast.
Men's News daily, that misogynist republican rag is dishonestly implying that these munitions are the missing WMDs.
Oh, let 'em. That's not going anywhere.
American Conservative magazine endorses Kerry!
No. Read the intro carefully. Only one of their editors endorses Kerry. The rest are all over the board--which constitutes the magazine's endorsement.
If these weapons are the missing WMD's then Bush fucked up and didn't secure them and they are now in the hands of the terrorists. How does that argument (whihc is bullshit) help Bush.
I heard this before that this justifies our invasion, it doesn't, but even if it did, you screwed up and let the terrorist get WMDs? How are we safer?
things to do while waiting for "election" results:
earnestly support the obviously better choice
whittle soap into little shavings
tear up towels
drink beer in bottles
think up miffed slogans for placards just in case
make a list
check it twice
fill up gas cans
buy antifreeze
buy muffins in bulk
open a catering service for country clubs
make happy talk
think happy thoughts
get or don't get over "it" when they stick a human dildo up your ass again
GWPDA - That is a nice observation - why would a French or Russian or German arms manufacturer label things in English?
Well, they might label explosives as explosives in English because it is somewhat of an international language--but they would also be sure to label it in the language of the country of origin. In close proximity to the English word and likely the same size, too.
I heard this before that this justifies our invasion, it doesn't, but even if it did, you screwed up and let the terrorist get WMDs?
There are people dumb enough to say that this justifies the invasion, but that's a smaller number of people than Bush had before this revelation. Nothing's going to change everyone's mind at once...this is all part of chipping away at the base. And the more grotesque Bush's logical contortions are, the fewer people they'll impress. If this stays on the front burner 'til Tuesday, Bush might as well put his head in the oven now.
I don't doubt they'll cook something up over the weekend, though...
MOSCOW - A spokesman for the Russian Ministry of Defense, Vyacheslav Sedov, has characterized the assertion that the Russian military may have removed 342 tons of explosives from al-Qaqaa as "absurd" and "laughable". Under Secretary of Defense John Shaw had claimed Russian involvement in the disappearance of the explosives.
Islamist group: We have Iraq explosives
Staff and agencies
Thursday October 28, 2004
Its video statement said:"Heroic Mujahideen have managed by the grace of God and by coordinating with a...number of the officers and the soldiers of the American intelligence to obtain a very huge amount of the explosives that were in the al-Qaqaa facility, which was under the protection of the American forces."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/
S...1337887,00.html
counterspin.blogspot.com has images
from this news crew.
Islamabad Marriott bombed.
“I officially declare that the Russian defense ministry... cannot be connected with the missing explosives, since Russian military personnel left Iraq long before the Anglo-American military operation in that country,” the Interfax news agency quoted him as saying.
But.. but... he forgot Po-Land!
Heh.
(apologies if soemone already thought of this)
Islamist group: We have Iraq explosives
Why am I not surprised?
btw, arafat is being evacuated to paris. he doesn't look too bad. somesort of bloodcell disorder...like red blood cells are after the platelets?
http://tinyurl.com/54yvy
Looting of weapons, all kinds of weapons.
Embedded With the Resistance. By Patrick Graham, Harper's June 2004. Not online, but reporpted about in the WaPo, June 1, 04.
“Mohammed's group is armed with sophisticated weapons -- including Russian-made anti-aircraft missiles -- that they say they obtained by looting a former Iraqi army base last summer while American soldiers watched.
"The Americans are so stupid -- they almost gave us the weapons," Mohammed told Graham. "They thought we were thieves. They watched us taking RPGs and other weapons and said, 'Are you Ali Baba?' We said yes, so they let us in. They thought we were destroying the Iraqi army."”
Iraqi 'Terrorists' Tell Their Story in Harper's. by Peter Carlson. Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, June 1, 2004; Page C01
washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5158-
2004May31.html
i think it's pretty obvious what the SEQUENCE OF EVENTS was here:
1. NYT releases explosives story
2. Bush/Cheney damage control examines story, realizes that an ABC News Crew was with the troops at Al Qa Qaa.
3. BC04 operatives leak secret CIA information about terror tape received by ABC to Drudge, begin smear campaign against ABC.
email this shit to every local and national newsource you can think of.
His remarks appeared to confirm the observations of an NBC reporter embedded with the army unit who said Tuesday that she saw no signs that the Americans searched for the powerful explosives during their 24 hours at the facility en route to Baghdad, 30 miles to the north.
The disappearance, which the International Atomic Energy Agency reported Monday to the U.N. Security Council, has raised questions about why the United States didn't do more to secure the facility and failed to allow full international inspections to resume after the March 2003 invasion.
On Tuesday, Russia, citing the disappearance, called on the U.N. Security Council to discuss the return of U.N. weapons inspectors to Iraq. But the United States said American inspectors were investigating the loss and that there is no need for U.N. experts to return.
From earthlink.net
In June 2003, inspectors investigated reports of widespread looting of storage rooms at Tuwaitha, and they returned in August 2003 to take inventory of several tons of natural uranium that had been stored there. They have not been allowed back to Al-Qaqaa.
So Al-Qaqaa wasn't the only site to be looted. What idiots do we having planning a war, where the main objective is to get to Baghdad and not secure dangerous material sites.
Maybe you guys with your superior brainpower could answer a question for me, cause i'm just a stupid republican. If the insurgents have had nearly 400 tons of high explosives for almost a year and a half now, why haven't they been used yet? Why are they wasting their time firing morters into the green zone or setting off shells on the roadsides? Don't you think that the insurgents would be more than happy to use these high explosives and cause some real damage?
And i know you are all so excited over this KSTP report you can hardly contain yourselves. According to the article, the reporters were with the 101 airborne division. Unfortunately the third infantry division was actually there first (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/04/iraq/
main547667.shtml). The article also doesn't mention any of the explosives having IAEA seals on them, which the explosives in question all had.
As much as you all don't want to beleive this, it's much more likely that the explosives in the pictures are conventional explosives, which were stored there along with the high explosives.
The KSTP video shows the troops cutting through a chain to get into the bunkers. No sign of the distinctive IAEA seals. Significant?
Title: BEYOND FALLUJAH , A year with the Iraqi resistance
By: Graham, Patrick, Harper's Magazine, 0017789X, Jun2004, Vol. 398, Issue 1849
.../...
One operation had stuck in his mind, though--the one in which they had been helped by an angel, just like in a battle mentioned in the Koran, when the Prophet Mohammed and 300 fighters had beaten a thousand of their enemy. Trained, like Abu Ali, as an engineer, Mohammed had wired together two 48-kilogram artillery shells looted from an ammunition dump.
"We placed the shells twenty meters apart, and when two Humvees drove by we blew up both of them," he told me. "When the Americans came to take them away, we hid for half an hour. But we did not notice their soldiers disappearing into the grass. When we packed up our weapons and climbed out of the ditch, the Americans started shooting at us. But we escaped, and only one was a little wounded."
Only an angel could have saved them, he said. This had been during the summer, a few months after they had started their group. They were professionals and tradesmen, Mohammed said, who had been trained by former Iraqi army officers. The cell was primarily made up of men from Mohammed and Abu Ali's own tribe, the Duleimi, who dominate Ramadi and Fallujah.
.../...
Did I miss something in this story?
The war has been going on for a year and a half now. They were aware of the ammo depot before the invasion. Not since March of 2003, not a single report of the inventory at that enormous depot has been made? The administration or the armed forces, or anyone, cannot come up with any reference to tons and tons of explosives etc. Gen Tommy Franks didn't mention the explosives in any report there. Bush can't lay his hands on anything referring to this stuff. What is wrong with this picture? WE NEED A NEW PRESIDENT!!!!!!
more graham
.../...
As we walked to the edge of the bluff over looking the road, two Black Hawks flew low over the palm groves that rose above the farmland, an oasis stretching out from the meandering Euphrates River. It didn't look like Iraq was supposed to--it looked more like Southeast Asia, like one of the scenes Francis Ford Coppola put back into Apocalypse Now Redux. From the cover of these date groves, Mohammed and his group were planning to shoot down helicopters.
"If I were doing an attack," he said, pointing at the Black Hawks, which now droned over the highway, "I would hit the second one."
Mohammed's group had stockpiled Russian-made SAM-7 Strela anti-aircraft missiles, which had come from the Habbaniya air base a few kilometers down the bluffs. We could see a tank there, parked under a guard tower. Before U.S. forces took over Habbaniya, they had watched as Mohammed and other Iraqis looted the ammunition.
"The Americans are so stupid--they almost gave us the weapons," he said. "They thought we were thieves. They watched us taking RPGs [rocket-propelled grenades] and other weapons and said, 'Are you Ali Baba?'" This was what the G.I.'s called thieves and looters. "We said yes, so they let us in. They thought we were destroying the Iraqi army."
Hundreds of ammunition dumps around the country are still unguarded, providing the resistance with decades' worth of supplies, mostly old artillery shells. Iraq is a virtual Wal-Mart for Soviet munitions and explosives. If resistance fighters run out of Strelas they can, according to Mohammed, buy more on the black market for $325 from the tribes in the south. Nor is there any shortage of funding. A wealthy Sunni in Baghdad told me that some of the groups are being funded by businessmen he knew. They are outraged by the new foreign-investment laws, which allow foreign companies to buy up factories for very little. Their revenues have collapsed, because the country has been flooded with foreign goods, and the increased wages now paid to the public sector are agitating their own, poorly paid workers. The violence, these businessmen realize, is their only competitive edge. It is simple business logic: the more problems there are in Iraq, the harder it is for outsiders to get involved.
.../...
and one more
Did you see Braveheart?" he asked me. "They throw out the British and the corrupt nobles. It is about hope. The people in the movie want freedom, and so do we. In the movie, the problems start because the British invaded and take the beautiful women and hurt the people. Because of the hard times, they gather weapons and get rid of the spies and traitors, isn't that right?"
Mel Gibson's movie had struck a chord with Mohammed on a number of levels. Not only did his own grandfather fight against the British but, like the Scottish nobles in Braveheart, many of the area's important sheikhs worked with the British occupiers. (The same families, Mohammed said, were now working with the Americans.) Mohammed referred to Western culture and history as frequently as he did to the Koran. At times he sounded like a seventies European student radical, someone who might have joined the Red Brigade.
"We think of Vietnam and look at the modern history of the United States, which is not very good," he said. "Why do they call us the Third World? Why do they look down on us?...Justice is the basis of ruling, and Saddam forgot this. We expect the fall of the American empire, because they do not follow justice in the world."
Until American soldiers stopped interacting with Iraqis on the streets of Fallujah and Ramadi, Mohammed would stop and talk to them. In part, he did this to check out their weapons, but he was curious too. One soldier showed him a picture of his family and said: "I miss them so much. I want to leave your country right now, but my government won't let me." Once, to a black soldier guarding a tank, he said, "Hey, Negro." After the man became angry, Mohammed explained to him that it was what he thought white men called blacks in the movies.
"I wanted him to feel that it was not his fault--it is the white man," Mohammed told me. "I wanted him to think about his African roots."
If the insurgents have had nearly 400 tons of high explosives for almost a year and a half now...
I do believe the point is that the explosives are missing which means no one knows where they are or who has them. If the insurgents do have these explosives or even some of these explosives, the reason they haven't used them all is simple. They're a little smarter than Bush, see--they don't believe in shooting their entire wad in one go.
At least you're honest when you call yourself stupid. I'd be a little more charitable if stupid people like you weren't out there voting and sending our nation to hell in Bush's handbasket. Why do you want to have an utter fuckup for a President? Why?
Oops. Forgot to turn off bold. Oh well.
As much as you all don't want to beleive this, it's much more likely that the explosives in the pictures are conventional explosives, which were stored there along with the high explosives.
rightwingnut | Email | Homepage | 10.28.04 - 1:51 pm | #
When desensitized, RDX can be used as a booster charge for other explosives or devices, such as mines or artillery shells. IEDs need a booster charge to set them off.
it's much more likely that the explosives in the pictures are conventional explosives, which were stored there along with the high explosives.
rightwingnut | Email | Homepage | 10.28.04 - 1:51 pm | #
The lable on the cannister says 1.1 D - that's a high secondary explosive classification.
Sorry, go spin somewhere's else. Either that or try reading previous posts before you post.
Rightwingnut,
re:
(i>If the insurgents have had nearly 400 tons of high explosives for almost a year and a half now, why haven't they been used yet?
You gotta bve kidding me! Heve you been paying no attention to the news? How many car bombs have there been in Iraq since the invasion? Those are BIG explosions, not mortar shells, fool! ANd what makes you say that all those many thousnads of IED's are all mortar shells? I know some of them are, but so what? If the insurgency is so well-organized that it has a perfect system for distribution of such materials, then the US occupation is TOAST. Whatever happened to those explosives, it seems pretty clear that the insurgents have an apparently endless supply of them, and I think this incident is a pretty clear indication of why that is the case.
You can't spin that one, Holmes.
ShrubCo is INCOMPETENT! Suck on it!
And as to your nonsense about conventional vs. high explosives, that just shows you're a nitwit. High explosives ARE conventional explosives. Nobody even uses TNT anymore. The stuff they found is the same stuff that goes into artillery shells.
it's much more likely that the explosives in the pictures are conventional explosives, which were stored there along with the high explosives.
rightwingnut | Email | Homepage | 10.28.04 - 1:51 pm | #
The lable on the cannister says 1.1 D - that's a high secondary explosive classification.
Sorry, go spin somewhere's else. Either that or try reading previous posts before you post.
It doesn't really matter what these explosives were, although obviously det cord would be extremely useful to insurgents.
If they could not secure these explosives, they could easily have blown them up. You can see from the Channel 5 story that the troops were eager to do it. There had to have been orders NOT to blow it up, and it since ammo dumps across Iraq were apparently left intact in the same way, that order had to come from a high level.
Rove is really scraping the bottom of his pathetic barrell for trolls for Atrios...
UN Haz Cat for Explosives:
Cyclotrimethylenetrinitramine (Cyclonite; Hexogen; RDX), wetted with not less than15% water, by mass
HAZ CAT - 1.1D
http://www.ribbands.co.uk/genpag...es/
unnumber.htm
Josh Marshall's linked to the KSTP video!
Maybe you guys with your superior brainpower could answer a question for me, cause i'm just a stupid republican. If the insurgents have had nearly 400 tons of high explosives for almost a year and a half now, why haven't they been used yet?
Words fail me.
"Usually it took just the snap of a bolt cutter to get in and see the material identified by the 101st as detonation cords."
So...did they cut the seals the IAEA left on them?
Richard,
You beat me to it by busting on rightwingnut.
But so that I can continue on Richard's bust up.
Maybe the insurgents haven't gotten around to using the non stabilized HE because they have been using the stabilized stuff first.
One of the reasons we have only been hearing about the 380 tons of Raw HE is that it was inventoried by the IAEA.
This facility has numerous bunkers that WERE filled with HE in various stages of processing. If anything, the raw unprocessed HE would have been the LAST stuff taken by Insurgents.
Words fail me.
Maybe he thinks all those IEDs were made of "sunshine and farts."
WHY ARE ALL THE LABELS OF THE EXPLOSIVES IN ENGLISH?
Please tell me that we didnt actually sell him the explosives that are now being used to kill our soldiers. Wouldnt be the first time I suppose
"Those people are incompetent assholes"
Glad to see that the Democrats who run the elections in more than 90% of Florida's counties are finally being recognized!
Love to see you back that up, toe-rag.
Lessee, in Florida we have 67 counties. I happen to know for a fact that the Supervisors of Elections in Hillsborough, Manatee, Pinellas and Sarasota counties are Goopers. that's almost six percent right there - are you really telling me that there are only three other Republican elections supervisors in this whole state? Especailly in that vast Republican swath north of I-4?
Or are you just talking out your ass again, like you've been doing for years?
Yeah, that's what I thought.
But you know? Not a single one of them is named Bush.
tomaig | Email | Homepage | 10.28.04 - 11:11 am | #
No, but the guy who gives them their marching orders is. If you don't live here, you have no idea how this place works, so piss off.
Has anybody else picked this up yet...not blogs but MSM?
Are they so gunshy and scared of the Right? Even RICH LOWREY doesn't know what to think of this story...or so his blurb on today's NRO Corner states.
Please tell me that we didnt actually sell him the explosives that are now being used to kill our soldiers. Wouldnt be the first time I suppose
Adam | Email | Homepage | 10.28.04 - 2:52 pm | #
Please scroll up. The lables are in English because the IATA requires explosives to be labled in English before shipment.
Facts are simple and facts are straight
Facts are lazy and facts are late
Facts all come with points of view
Facts don't do what I want them to
Facts just twist the truth around
Facts are living turned inside out
Facts are getting the best of them
Facts are nothing on the face of things
Where the f--- is the MSM on this story?!
Do we have any sightings?
What is going on?
Who can we freep to get this thing covered?
Links anyone?
Dana Milbank at the Post: whitehouse@washpost.com
News Dept. at the Times: nytnews@nytimes.com
NBC News/MSNBC: World@MSNBC.com
One mans high yield plastic explosive is another mans ammunition, apparently.
How do you get it to not get stuck in the chamber though??
Ammunition, it is not.
I was startled when KSTP broke the news this morning. As has been said earlier a lot of democrats will not go on KSTP because the owner, Stanley Hubbard is a huge donor to the Republicans and the evening anchor was the press secretary to a republican governor (of course Arne is probably supporting Kerry)
why haven't these contorted apologists for this horsebleep installed oligarchy committed suicide yet? i am underwhelmed.
Even BEST CASE scenario...
Isn't the admission (their alleged defense) that "no one knows if they were there or not whether ti was taken before or after..." MORE than enough information?
I mean, really, there is no excuse for "not knowing". It all goes back to planning, priorities, decisions.
This shouldn't be a controversy, and wouldn't be one in any society that was not busy cannibalizing itself. In any decent society, with a healthy sense of self-preservation this wouldn't be an issue, it would be obvious to all that this is not a good thing, reflective of bad decisions, priorities, and command. And it would hold the TOP responsible.
But then, responsiblity would actually mean something instead of empty words that have no consequence.
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