Sheez!
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 3:28 pm | #

:(
tireiron chef | 05.31.06 - 3:29 pm | #

Dear Iraqis: For fuck's sake, STOP AT THE FUCKING CHECKPOINTS!!!!! Thank you.
Farcast | 05.31.06 - 3:30 pm | #

It's not over; it's just begun.
LookDeeper | 05.31.06 - 3:31 pm | #

At this rate, soon there won't be any hearts and minds to win over. Not good...
ezpz | 05.31.06 - 3:31 pm | #

It doesn't help much that it's "understandable", does it?
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 3:31 pm | #

Jassim's brother, who was wounded by broken glass, said he did not see any warnings as he sped his sister to the hospital. Her husband was waiting for her there.

"I was driving my car at full speed because I did not see any sign or warning from the Americans. It was not until they shot the two bullets that killed my sister and cousin that I stopped," he said. "God take revenge on the Americans and those who brought them here. They have no regard for our lives."

Why do they hate us?

Oh.
tireiron chef | 05.31.06 - 3:31 pm | #

I heard that on the way to work this morning and all I could think of was, yeah, what is the pro-fetus, pro-war brigade going to say now? Oh well, it's not a white, middle-class christian, American mom-and-fetus, so they probably don't care.
Ambercat | 05.31.06 - 3:31 pm | #

Yes, I'm sure those marines were just aching to shoot up some pregnant Iraqi women. This wasn't a bunch of people storming into a random house and firing guns, nor was it some systemic abuse inside a military run detention center. This was a couple of soldiers having a car speeding through a checkpoint that they were told to guard. While it is tragic, and steps should be taken to eliminate the miscommunications that lead to these incidents, we need to stop getting hysterical every time we see news like this. Accidents, which this is, need to be diffentiated from acts of malice. I see less and less of that distinction on this board.
Mr. Moderate | 05.31.06 - 3:32 pm | #

OMG, I can not take it anymore.
Iraqi's had no part in 911. Who their leader was, was their buissiness.
It was up to Iraqi's to get rid of Saddam or not get rid of Saddam, not Bush. Our troops need to come home now.
lily | 05.31.06 - 3:32 pm | #

No, it's NOT over. The true believers don't care about brown or foriegn fetuses, even though they are happy to ban abortion in the US. The likely reaction is "one less future terrorist", when it's a Muslim-family fetus. I really think the rest of the public is shock-worn. I thought Abu Ghraib would be the end, then Fallujah phosporus bombing, then Haditha. The public isn't blinking, unless they were against the war to begin with.
NancyP | 05.31.06 - 3:32 pm | #

Wow, that's tragic :(
Pixie | 05.31.06 - 3:33 pm | #

Point is - there shouldn't be American checkpoints in Iraq. It's their country, and we shouldn't be there. Period.
ezpz | 05.31.06 - 3:33 pm | #

"I was driving my car at full speed because I did not see any sign or warning from the Americans."
Search All Their Offices | 05.31.06 - 3:34 pm | #

Accident or malice, the woman is still dead. Truth is, what with accidents, nutso trigger-happy soldiers, and their own compatriots blowing Iraqis to bits, the average Iraqi, and even an occasional American, is going to wonder if we made a bad situation (Saddam) into a worse situation (now). I'd say the Iraqis would prefer Saddam and stability right now.
NancyP | 05.31.06 - 3:35 pm | #

Mr. Moderate, in fact you see on what you choose to see. The point is that war has consequences, and our actions have consequences. Everyone who continues to support this war continues to support the growing cost of this war - $300 billion (not counting the trillions needed in the long term for benefits, etc.), over 2,000 dead, and scores of civilian killings (intentional and unintentional). This war has a real cost, and far too many Americans don't seem to realize that this, accidents and all, are what they continue to sanction.

And to the guy planning the next shoe bomb, car bomb, or shopping mall attack, it's not going to matter that this was an accident. We are creating an entire generation of terrorists, all because King George can't admit he screwed up.
John Aravosis | 05.31.06 - 3:36 pm | #

Point is - there shouldn't be American checkpoints in Iraq. It's their country, and we shouldn't be there. Period.

The problem is that we are there, for whatever reason. Leaving and hoping everything works out doesn't absolve us of the responsibility to clean up the milk we spilled in this whole debacle. So yes, it's screwed up we are there. It'd be even more screw up for us to just high tail it and let the country descend into civil war. That's as irresponsible a policy as Bush getting us there in the first place.
Mr. Moderate | 05.31.06 - 3:36 pm | #

Mr. Moderate

Your argument just doesn't make sense. After a while, the excuses become meaningless, because they are too numerous. They are also negated by incidents like Haditha. Are the actions of our troops understandable? Yes. But seeing the forest through the trees, the forest is burning. You're getting lost in the details.

This is a disaster.
AnonLeft | 05.31.06 - 3:37 pm | #

senseless

whoever put these civilians, and our military in this position should feel shame - including the 60% who supported this war going in.
Never Die | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 3:37 pm | #

"It's over."

Don't we all wish, honey.
Pissed Sissy | 05.31.06 - 3:37 pm | #

I have friends in the military in Iraq. A couple of them are now dead friends. Granted, they should not be there, but these guys live under a constant threat of some fanatic blowing himself up just to kill a few of them. All they have to do is STOP at the check-points. It's that simple. You think the soldiers WANT to kill pregnant women?
capnmike | 05.31.06 - 3:37 pm | #

Mr. Moderate | 05.31.06 - 3:32 pm | #

If you haven't already seen a lawyer to draft a document relinquishing all claims to any accident that might happen to you or your family members, please do so immediately.
tireiron chef | 05.31.06 - 3:38 pm | #

Karl Rove "well their goes our antiabortion base"
simeon wolf | 05.31.06 - 3:38 pm | #

It's over? This doesn't even seem to be the end of the beginning. This will go on, and on, and on. Iranians next maybe? Shameful shit this, but hey, we've know for 3 years now. Because a great nation deserves no less.
APC | 05.31.06 - 3:39 pm | #

But Moderate, I beg to differ. You're working under a false assumption. We're dead. Iraq is lost. The only question is whether we're going to sit in Iraq and sacrifice our soldiers' lives while watching the country go to hell, or whether we're doing to leave and watch the country go to hell (but at least stop spending billions on the war and get our soldiers' asses out of their).

Iraq is lost whether we stay or go. To stay, therefore, is lunacy.

To coin a metaphor: Terri's brain is half-gone, it's time to pull the plug.
John Aravosis | 05.31.06 - 3:39 pm | #

Miss Moderate,

RUSH LIMBAUGH IS CALLING YOU HOME, deary.
Pissed Sissy | 05.31.06 - 3:40 pm | #

It's not just a choice between "hightailing it" and maintaining troops in their current positions indefinitely. Compromises have been proposed, such as Murtha's repositioning troops over the horizon. Maintaining the status quo is what's irresponsible and untenable.
ArcParser | 05.31.06 - 3:40 pm | #

Dude, 'all they have to do is stop?' It's your wife and she's in labor and you're racing to the hospital, and you're supposed to have the clarity of mind to stop at a checkpoint while racing to the hospital? This is just a big mess, and it's only getting messier.
John Aravosis | 05.31.06 - 3:41 pm | #

Mr. Moderate | 05.31.06 - 3:36 pm | #

Yes we need to clean up the mess we made, but as long as we have a presence there, reconstruction just won't happen. (Anytime it does, it gets destroyed.) We trashed their country, and every day we're there it only gets worse. We need to pay reparations and get the hell out!

I just don't buy into the "..now that we're there..." (un)logical meme.
ezpz | 05.31.06 - 3:41 pm | #

Are we just hoping that the country is not in a civil war? Is our presence there making it worse? What is your definition of civil war? Couldn't it be that we can do no more good there? Do you think our presence there today is a good thing? I really don't think so.
AnonLeft | 05.31.06 - 3:41 pm | #

I still haven't figured out how civil war with us there and civil war without us there differ. Except that without us there, fewer Americans get killed. Any lessons from Vietnam? I think so.
pdx | 05.31.06 - 3:41 pm | #

And as I noted, it can't be cleaned up. We fucked up. It's over. Humpty Dumpty is broken. We can stay and be involved in a civil war, or we can leave and watch a civil war. The end result is the same, it's simply a matter of how many US bodies and how much US money and how much US prestige and reputation are lost on the way to civil war.
John Aravosis | 05.31.06 - 3:42 pm | #

Accidents, which this is, need to be diffentiated from acts of malice. I see less and less of that distinction on this board.

Mr. Moderate

----------------

Problem being, the Haditha massacre shows that accounts of how these incidents occur cannot necessarily be taken at face value. Any sort of coverup damages not only those involved in that incident, but in whatever may happen subsequently. And that sort of precedent presents a problem for everyone involved.

Were "repeated visual and auditory warnings" given? Maybe. But maybe they weren't.

You'll also notice that even the driver wasn't alleging that the soldiers were looking to kill a pregnant woman, have "no regard for our lives."

Your characterization is, indeed, a ridiculous notion. His, however, is just as damaging, and far harder to refute.
Verchiel | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 3:42 pm | #

And, we have a President who thinks he can diagnose the world by videoconference.
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 3:42 pm | #

the driver said he saw no warnings or signals to stop.

"God take revenge on the Americans and those who brought them here. They have no regard for our lives" is what he said. Notice he didn't say "God take revenge on the *Coalition Forces*" as the carefully worded American military press release did.

Sigh. Incompetence = endless death. And 10 new insurgents are created with every 1 we manage to stop.
Kurt | 05.31.06 - 3:43 pm | #

War is hell. But we're making progress! So sayeth der chimp, as if he has any idea.
efudd | 05.31.06 - 3:43 pm | #

After the killing of the Italian special ops guy at a road block while he was taking the Italian reporter to safety, I am having a difficult time accepting the "steps should be taken to eliminate the miscommunications" excuse.

Apparently "steps" are NOT being taken.

Recall the female soldier who was left behind and ultimately rescued - that was a failure of communications.

Remember Hurricane Katrina victims stranded while Mayor Nagin said we have no satellite phones? The phones are in Iraq!

Failure to communicate is an excuse for not doing one's job.
Dottie McDotterson | 05.31.06 - 3:44 pm | #

It has been a disaster from the word go. "The only good thing in war is the end." Abe Lincoln
hereinOhio | 05.31.06 - 3:44 pm | #

typo:

You'll also notice that even the driver wasn't alleging that the soldiers were looking to kill a pregnant woman, rather, that they have "no regard for our lives."
Verchiel | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 3:44 pm | #

"Dude, 'all they have to do is stop?' It's your wife and she's in labor and you're racing to the hospital, and you're supposed to have the clarity of mind to stop at a checkpoint while racing to the hospital? This is just a big mess, and it's only getting messier.
John Aravosis"

In addition, I heard a couple of Iraqi labor union leaders speaking last year and one told of losing his father because he had a heart attack and the process of getting him through NUMEROUS checkpoints was so laborious and time-consuming that he died en route. This likely wasn't about a single checkpoint but a whole gauntlet that Iraqis have to run daily just to move around their own country. Think how angry we Americans would be if we had to stop five times on a ten mile trip to work to go through a "checkpoint."
Ambercat | 05.31.06 - 3:45 pm | #

Somehow, I think this is all in accordance to the Neocon plan. Endless chaos = endless presence = endless war profiteering. How very very tragic.
ezpz | 05.31.06 - 3:46 pm | #

Missy-
Rush Oxycontin Bimbo suggests that the liberals (ie anyone who disagrees with him) want the troops home now and declare failure since we 'hate' america. If we wanted failure wouldn't we want the quagmire to continue?
LookDeeper | 05.31.06 - 3:47 pm | #

Ambercat,

One major incident here, and your last sentence may well be prophetic.
efudd | 05.31.06 - 3:48 pm | #

Two Words: Donald Rumsfeld!
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 3:49 pm | #

We are killing pregnant women over there so we won't have to kill pregnant women over here
Goerge | 05.31.06 - 3:51 pm | #

Moderate:

You don't appear moderate at all. At what point do the "moderates" decide that our soldiers can leave? Who defines "civil war"? Who is an insurgent (example: pregnant woman in labor)?

Of course it was an accident (giving it the benefit of the doubt).

What sign from on high will allow you to say we need to get the heck out of there? What magical moment will define the "end" of our occupation?

We have now become the problem. We are no longer the liberators, we are the enemy, the occupiers and we are killing "them". And guess what, they don't want us there, they don't want us killing them either.

So, as I see it, not only does the rest of the world HATE us, but the people we've selected to SAVE hate us.

So let's have your wisdom and insight here. What vision of the future will it take before you war apologists say "ok we're leaving"?

You're not a moderate, you're a hawk. This war has no purpose now. It didn't have one before, but it's becoming pretty obvious to everyone that we're way in over everyone's heads. No one in their right mind could justify this occupation.

There is no end in sight and no benchmark as to what an "end" would represent.

Reminds me of the GWOT.
wickedlady | 05.31.06 - 3:51 pm | #

two more words: Paul Wolfowitz

And two more: Douglas Feith

4 more: dick Cheney, Condaleeza Rice
ezpz | 05.31.06 - 3:52 pm | #

Sources say uteruses are frequently used to smuggle explosives...
Goerge | 05.31.06 - 3:52 pm | #

Hang'em All!
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 3:53 pm | #

and we are prosecuting Saddam because?
Was that crimes against humanity?
FearAndLoathing | 05.31.06 - 3:53 pm | #

I must congratulate Goerge for the comment:

we're killing pregnant women over there so we won't have to kill them here.

Superb!
wickedlady | 05.31.06 - 3:54 pm | #

Troops out of Iraq NOW. Impeach Bush and Cheney NOW.
Jeff | 05.31.06 - 3:54 pm | #

When the investigation about this incident is completed in 2011, maybe the family can find peace.
george | 05.31.06 - 3:54 pm | #

This is one of the saddest stories I have read. Very complex, but the starting point here is tragedy. I cannot imagine how this would affect me personally if I were waiting for my wife to arrive in that hospital only to learn that this was her fate. I understand that the situation is very chaotic and logic tells me that this was an accident, but the 'regettable losses' BS just doesn't cut it.

Mr. Moderate, I'm not trying to bash but did you make any effort to empathize and put yourself in the shoes of the people that are affected before you started typing something so coarse. You jump right to criticism of the writers here. I don't get that. I think a little hysteria is understood in this one.

For parity, I don't think the other comments which jump right to the demonization of the right based on assumptions are any more correct. Please... civil discourse is demanded in order for us to make it through this. While I don't agree with the policies or motivations of what I consider the other side, if we start every conversation by kicking them in the nuts, we can never hope to have a rational discussion. I deal with lots of situations that clearly have a right and a wrong, but I still find that I am better served by starting from civil footing. Not only can you affect the hearts and minds of those that ARE wrong, but the bystanders as well.
Mnamna | 05.31.06 - 3:54 pm | #

If I was speeding down the road taking my pregnant partner to the hospital and I go through a stop sign I don't expect that everyone in the car will be shot.

If you don't want husbands and their pregnant partners speeding through stop signs on their way to the maternity ward, I say this to the retards who plan these things:

Put up a fucking gate. Paramount Pictures has one, maybe you could borrow their gate.
WalterNeff | 05.31.06 - 3:55 pm | #

We've become Israel..
Bob | 05.31.06 - 3:57 pm | #

[We've become Israel..]

That should make Holly happy.
tireiron chef | 05.31.06 - 3:57 pm | #

Moderate,

Is it that you think someone here is blaming the soldiers?

I don't see anyone here blaming the soldiers.

I see many people here blaming the people who set policy that places the soldiers in this impossible situation.

Do you comprehend the difference?
.
.
.
Jeff Boatright | 05.31.06 - 3:57 pm | #

not to change subject...but the frontline special on aids is not to be missed. this is when this whole mess started. it also points out what i've been saying to anyone who'll listen, that the early aids protesters were very loud, aggressive, and effective. nothing in the anti war protests of today even comes close. buy wiping out an entire angry vocal opposition, it set the ground work for the apathy we now see everywhere. nothing comes close to taking the void of all those who have died from aids. and now this horrible war. i've been at war for 25years. i'm really really really tired of this. watching the quilt last night on frontline brought it all back. this country has learned nothing. we are doomed.
kirk in LA | 05.31.06 - 3:57 pm | #

Is a person "some fanatic" when he is retaliating for the shooting death of his pregnant wife/sister/mother/cousin? Or is he perfectly sane and fed up?

If retaliation is wrong, then why is the US retaliating for the 9-11 attacks?
Dottie McDotterson | 05.31.06 - 3:59 pm | #

Accidents, which this is, need to be diffentiated from acts of malice. I see less and less of that distinction on this board.
Mr. Moderate | 05.31.06 - 3:32 pm | #

Foreign soldiers occupying a country for oil and Israel and killing people is not an accident by any stretch....it IS malice.
bumpkis | 05.31.06 - 3:59 pm | #

There is NO possible way of cleaning this mess up. This admin has done one huge fuck-up. There IS no way to come out ahead or even a tie, we lost it big time, and there is no redemption. Why do we have to leave our troops to die when nothing can improve this situation. It is just a bunch of jerks in this administration who can't admit they are/were wrong. Just like the trolls that come here can't admit it. We even my elderly relatives that are WW2 Vets scream about bringing our troops home from this hopeless situation, you know it's bad.
rikc | 05.31.06 - 4:00 pm | #

I consider the G.I.s involved in such incidents to be among the victims.
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 4:00 pm | #

I agree with Murtha. Re-deploy. Help if requested.

This has always been a question of principle and I'm afraid we must reconstitute who we are.

Are we dead? NO! We have been in a long dark comatose state. We must awaken.

America is great because we examine these atrocities. The only way to fix this is with information provided in places like this.


Please don’t give up John.

The disenfranchised must lead and we can not do it without you.
Fernando | 05.31.06 - 4:01 pm | #

If you haven't already seen a lawyer to draft a document relinquishing all claims to any accident that might happen to you or your family members, please do so immediately.
tireiron chef | 05.31.06 - 3:38 pm | #

Threatening people are you you little fucking coward? I'll fuck you up homes! How do you want it?
Shadow of tyree | 05.31.06 - 4:02 pm | #

Those of you who say they should have stopped have never been in labor.
And those of you who worry that if we "hightail" out of Iraq they will descend into civil war...stop worrying...THEY ALREADY HAVE!
Terri | 05.31.06 - 4:03 pm | #

"The loss of life is regrettable and coalition forces go to great lengths to prevent them," the military said.

Yeah, well, Fuck you ass-holes
Corey | 05.31.06 - 4:03 pm | #

The Iraqis have been getting killed just trying to live their sad, poor wartorn lives! "It's the end" because it's just another log on the fire but it involves a mother and child. The whole world should hate us now.
Lippygirl77 | 05.31.06 - 4:03 pm | #

What a coincidence. Today is the one-year anniversary of Cheney's "Last Throes" comment.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:03 pm | #

Hand it over to Lieberman....blame the Dems in '08.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:05 pm | #

They clearly hate us for our freedoms....

Our Freedom to kill them without regard.
Joseph Christ | 05.31.06 - 4:05 pm | #

"The problem is that we are there, for whatever reason."

"For whatever reason"? Parndon me? Bzzzzzzzt! I have a ruling from the judges: You do not get to languidly wave your manicured hand in the air and dismiss the fact that a dishonest and corrupt administration entered into a pre-emptive attack on another government under the cover of more lies than any of us can keep track of. Sure, I understand the temptation to do so is great, particularly when the result of that illegal war are becomming rather embarassing to the good Christians in charge. But, no. Every American has to look long and hard at what we've allowed to be done in our names without whitewashing the underlying lies and corruption with a lame ass "whatever".
JaneOfTheUrbanJungle | 05.31.06 - 4:06 pm | #

Three more Iraqis LIBERATED from the shackles of this earth in a war supported by Republicans who say they value the "culture of LIFE"!

WHOSE nation has been INVADED, once again???
Grant in Houston | 05.31.06 - 4:06 pm | #

Make sense Shadow of tyree. Can you?
Fernando | 05.31.06 - 4:06 pm | #

How do we define innocent people?

Can they be their own victim?

Who defines the bad or good guys?

Are we all defined at birth?

What drives people like Bush and Chaney to commit evil?

The bad guys will be long gone with their loot and the wars will still be going strong.
jorge | 05.31.06 - 4:06 pm | #

[Shadow of tyree | 05.31.06 - 4:02 pm | #]

Not at all--you're the one making threats. Go read the post I'm responding to.

Or answer this question: if a cop killed your loved ones accidentally, would it be better in your view than if a criminal killed them intentionally? Put your money where your mouth is.
tireiron chef | 05.31.06 - 4:07 pm | #

Um, do they hate us because we invaded their country?
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 4:07 pm | #

Joe Lieberman Approves of Shooting Pregnant Women, Regardless Which Country She Is In.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R...C% 20Connecticut
kerplunk | 05.31.06 - 4:09 pm | #

At this rate, soon there won't be any hearts and minds to win over. Not good...
ezpz | 05.31.06 - 3:31 pm |

----------------------------------------------

Sure there will, they'll just be laying in the road.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:09 pm | #

Even if you look at this from a purely tactical perspective, its not in America's best interest to wantonly shoot at anything that moves.

This is a guerilla war, no matter how hard you want to tell yourselves any different. Attrocities like this one (even if it was accidental, and I'm inclined to believe the truth is somewhere in between) are how guerilla groups recruit. Has anyone in the Pentagon read one scrap of history?

The road block guards, if it even was a road block, might as well have tossed the guy a loaded AK 47 after they shot up the car.
Antares | 05.31.06 - 4:09 pm | #

Also how will anyone be asked to believe that we asked them to stop at the supposedly clearly marked checkpoint when an IED supposedly blew the 24 other Iraqis up. Then riddled them with bullets! Given that we shot a granny and children who will believe we will stop at the just about to be born! Get um early. No wonder foreign movies are starting to portray Americans as villians:( Sad.
Lippygirl77 | 05.31.06 - 4:09 pm | #

tireiron chef | 05.31.06 - 4:07 pm | #

Why don't you try and run my checkpoint and see what happens. You threatened Mr. Moderate and his family with bodily harm you slimeball piece of cowardly shit.
Now you get it.
Shadow of tyree | 05.31.06 - 4:10 pm | #

TireIron:

Anytime a cop shoots you, it's an accident. If not, see the Patriot Act.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:11 pm | #

Accidents happen. The young Lance Corporals who felt they HAD to fire on that vehicle will have nightmares... well, forever.

Look at it this way:

Jimmy is driving his wife's car home one night from work and hits a deer. Accident.

OR:

Jimmy is driving his wife's car home from his mistress' house and hits a deer. Accident. And PROBLEM.

Same event, but the circumstances surrounding the latter add a layer of complexity and consequence.

We ought not be there in the first place. If there's going to be an 'accident', it oughta be the 'aw shit' variety, not the 'riot in the streets' we're going to have now.
graymatter | 05.31.06 - 4:12 pm | #

Shadow of tyree | 05.31.06 - 4:10 pm----------------------------------------

What a piece of shit.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:12 pm | #

republicans do things for profit.....like killing people (including american soldiers) outside of the womb in a foreign country for no reason. If there was a way make oil out of dead babies i bet abortion would be manditory.....just to make money off their exxon stock.
Joe Six Pack of Chardonnay | 05.31.06 - 4:12 pm | #

republicans do things for profit.....like killing people (including american soldiers) outside of the womb in a foreign country for no reason. If there was a way make oil out of dead babies i bet abortion would be manditory.....just to make money off their exxon stock.
Joe Six Pack of Chardonnay | 05.31.06 - 4:12 pm | #

This is embarassing. As Americans we find ourselves trapped in a dilemma similar to the one faced by the "good" people of Auschwitz and Dachau, claiming "we didn't know." They knew, they could smell the burning flesh. We know, we read the transcripts and watch the videos on the evening newscasts. There's a tribunal of historians watching from the near future, and we don't look good to them.
Indigo | 05.31.06 - 4:12 pm | #

The incident is horrible. What makes me ever MORE enraged (if that's possible) is the response.

The carefully worded military response just struck me as being the most heartless and repugnant thing I have ever read. American troops kill a woman on the way to the hospital to have a baby. That's not in dispute. That's what's going on. And the official response: "...and one of the females may have been pregnant."

No, asshat. The woman WAS pregnant before you opened fire on her.

And, just out of curiosity, why do you shoot the occupants if you are trying to "disable the vehicle?" I'd shoot the tires, not the passanger.

Could the "official military statement" be any more ridiculous?
JohnS | 05.31.06 - 4:13 pm | #

A fetus was killed? Well that just changes everything doesn't it.....
basedonwhat | 05.31.06 - 4:13 pm | #

Didn't George Washington actually pick up a firearm and act the part of Commander In Chief?
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:13 pm | #

But what about all the good news coming out of Iraq?
Taters | 05.31.06 - 4:14 pm | #

Antares | 05.31.06 - 4:09 pm |

They good people at the Pentagon who read history have been systematically urinated on from the beginning by Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz. Some were fired, others resigned and it's no longer a secret that the Military is in turmoil as a result of Rumsfeld's campaign of pathological arrogance.
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 4:14 pm | #

Abortion will become mandatory when Bush gets his Medical Malpractice Act passed and Frist gets his Stem Cell "Research" Bill through. He's tired of puppies only having 4 legs and one head.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:16 pm | #

This is about to get really interesting:

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/ p...ft05262005.html
wickedlady | 05.31.06 - 4:16 pm | #

It just makes me sick because we are there getting our troops killed, and killing civilians for what? The wanking chimp's lies, nothing else. Kind of makes you wonder, had the chimp been prez when OUR civil war occured, the Confederacy fires on Sumpter, and would the wanking chimp have invaded say Mexico??? Most likely. Looks like I'm going to have slap a few more Canadian Flags on our luggage now. I am SO sick of this complete fuck-up that this admin has started in the Middle East.
rikc | 05.31.06 - 4:16 pm | #

I don't smell any burning flesh. Do any of you?
kerplunk | 05.31.06 - 4:16 pm | #

Taters | 05.31.06 - 4:14 pm |
-------------------------------------------

Yeah, I hear they are sending even more soldiers to verify.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:16 pm | #

This is from Joschka Fischer, the former German foreign minister:

"When one looks back on the years since the US invaded Baghdad, one finds that all gloomy predictions have been surpassed by reality. Foreign policy pessimists usually turn out to be bad-tempered realists. But when pessimists are overtaken by reality itself, as has happened in Iraq, that would seem to be cause for true concern. The only stage of pessimism left would then seem to be the escape into optimism, an escape that would entail the surrender of every form of realism. Recent official statements by the US administration suggest that this next stage has already been reached."

Maybe we should be scared

http://service.spiegel.de/cache/ ...,418515,00.html
Goerge | 05.31.06 - 4:17 pm | #

Talk to any gas station owner...Americans aren't buying the gas....that puts all the weight on Bush and The Republicans that keep him in there.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:18 pm | #

If the military lowers entrance standards and the number of accidents increases, then can we say that the two are related? Is the military responsible for the quality of its troops?
Dottie McDotterson | 05.31.06 - 4:18 pm | #

Joe Lieberman Approves of Shooting Pregnant Women, Regardless Which Country She Is In.

Maybe she can just jump off the gurney and run down to the next hospital!
Corey | 05.31.06 - 4:19 pm | #

Trains are always on time.

What smell?
Dottie McDotterson | 05.31.06 - 4:19 pm | #

yeah, Dave, it was just a little rhetorical. I know they've read history, and of course, don't give a shit.

Look, its good for business for this war to last as long as it can. So, the more chaos the more bullets are bought, and the more IEDs planted the more Bradelys get sold...I know this, you know this, and the pentagon knows this.

Plain and simple, the current Administration will fight until the last drop of YOUR blood.
Antares | 05.31.06 - 4:19 pm | #

yeah, Dave, it was just a little rhetorical. I know they've read history, and of course, don't give a shit.

Look, its good for business for this war to last as long as it can. So, the more chaos the more bullets are bought, and the more IEDs planted the more Bradelys get sold...I know this, you know this, and the pentagon knows this.

Plain and simple, the current Administration will fight until the last drop of YOUR blood.
Antares | 05.31.06 - 4:19 pm | #

Dave and ezpz,

Six more words: Project For The New American Century.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

I know you guys have probably already seen it but for those who have not, the signatures on the Statement Of Priniciples under the Publications/ Reports section are quite illuminating. It reads like a who's who of the Bush Adminnistration.

Funny, I didn't used to be a conspiracy theorist...
JaneOfTheUrbanJungle | 05.31.06 - 4:20 pm | #

TJI!

Pick up the next copy of Rolling Stone Magazine! They keep this up, and I'm subscribing!

http://www.bradblog.com/archives...es/ 00002891.htm
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:20 pm | #

[need to be diffentiated from acts of malice.]

This entire "war" and occupation is an act of malice. While they may not have intentionally set about to kill a pregnant woman, if we had not invaded this sovereign nation to begin with...
Ellie | 05.31.06 - 4:20 pm | #

PNAC and WHIG are Fuckers to the UnHoly core!
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:21 pm | #

You know, to the people who blame the Iraqis for not stopping for checkpoints.........how would you feel if some other country set up roadblocks on the way to your hospital and shot you for trying to get there. What if it was in a part of town that you didn't know that route that well and what the checkpoints were like? This is bullshit and is the same thing as blaming Katrina victims for not getting out of New Orleans in time....like they were not deserving of help and compassion.
basedonwhat | 05.31.06 - 4:21 pm | #

Anyone else see Loose change???
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:21 pm | #

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product...glance& n=283155

Cobra II by Gordon and Trainer is a fair analysis of the military decisions which have led inexorably to the predicament we are lamenting today.

This is all a direct consequence of the policies of the civilian leadership in the Pentagon.
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 4:22 pm | #

Could some reporter please ask Bush "Why are we still in Iraq?" and then follow up on his answer.
gumboman | 05.31.06 - 4:22 pm | #

[Why don't you try and run my checkpoint and see what happens. You threatened Mr. Moderate and his family with bodily harm you slimeball piece of cowardly shit.
Now you get it.

Shadow of tyree | 05.31.06 - 4:10 pm | #]

Are you truly stupid, or are you just one of those trolls who try to waste people's time?

I started to explain to you what I wrote, but I decided you're not worth the effort.

By the way, do you normally go around putting up random checkpoints in public spaes and then attacking anyone who "runs" them? Sounds like typical rightwing bullying. But you probably know this already.
tireiron chef | 05.31.06 - 4:22 pm | #

john is right on .....Game Over ....We are the monsters now ...abu graib ...haditha....They dont hate us for out freedoms they hate us because we bring death and fear.
simeon wolf | 05.31.06 - 4:23 pm | #

You know, to the people who blame the Iraqis for not stopping for checkpoints.........how would you feel if some other country set up roadblocks on the way to your hospital and shot you for trying to get there.

--------------------------------------------

I don't fuck when bombs are going off and the Hospitals are too busy with matters other than the chaos my dick could cause. Sorry.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:23 pm | #

Today's good news from Iraq: the U.S. has not recently bombed any more wedding parties.
cadejo4 | 05.31.06 - 4:24 pm | #

Well we just canm leave without some kind of effective Iraqi security force. Shit is not going well over there presently but if we just leave it will turn into complete anarchy. It also was an accident but that ain't going to bring that woman back either. None of our options are good ones. For that you can bet your ass I blame 43 and his fucking cronies. To me it seems like the plan for Iraq was let's take out Saddam and we'll figure it out. That wasn't real smart and I'm just glad I'm out of the Navy.
tommy in nyc | 05.31.06 - 4:24 pm | #

It's a street-fight, not boxing.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:24 pm | #

ahhh, the trolls are flailing again, I see.

...and they sure got their 'hate on' today, huh?
900 lb Gorilla | 05.31.06 - 4:25 pm | #

We lost the hearts and minds a long time ago ..AMERICA THE RETARDED!
simeon wolf | 05.31.06 - 4:25 pm | #

Mr Moderate -

Accidents happen? If this were your daughter and grandchild would her death be more acceptable to you if she were shot because of a "miscommunication" instead of outright malice????
basedonwhat | 05.31.06 - 4:26 pm | #

Tireiorn, I suspect with this new story and the other slaughter of civilians coming to light, the trolls will be coming out of the woodwork quicker than the wanking chimp can snort a line. It's appears it has already started. Sad, isn't it, when they STILL are so blind they try to defend the chimperor. Gawd, I need a huge drink. A Double Double wouldn't hurt either...
rikc | 05.31.06 - 4:26 pm | #

I wonder how many undocumented homosexuals are forced to participate in these barbarous acts?
Fernando | 05.31.06 - 4:26 pm | #

None of this matters anymore.....didn't you hear? A 34 year old woman lawyer was carjacked in her Lexus this morning in Alambama. Thank god we have something else to distract us......uh, I mean...focus on!!!!
hereinOhio | 05.31.06 - 4:26 pm | #

I'm hardly a troll. I say you should cast an opinion as to how first-time war soldiers are supposed to conduct themselves in 125 Degree heat as soon as you get back from doing it correctly.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:27 pm | #

Yeah, 900, the Troll Patrol is really scared today! It's quite obvious!
rikc | 05.31.06 - 4:27 pm | #

hereinOhio | 05.31.06 - 4:26 pm |

We'll here all about it as soon as Olbermann is over.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:28 pm | #

What is it going to take to get Americans to start flying their US flags upside down????!!!!! We are in distress right now!!!!!!! Shameful the acts of violence in the name of America overseas in Iraq!

We are Americans........NOT BARBARIANS, people!
KayInMaine | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 4:28 pm | #

Some Americans are barbarians Kay. Ask Ben.
Fernando | 05.31.06 - 4:29 pm | #

What if the soldier that shot her was a Gynocologyst? Would you feel better, or is that rape if he checks to see if she's pregnant first? That's only possible if she stops.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:29 pm | #

rikc, I don't know, I hear the chimp can snort a line pretty fast. . .
tireiron chef | 05.31.06 - 4:29 pm | #

I'm hardly a troll. I say you should cast an opinion as to how first-time war soldiers are supposed to conduct themselves in 125 Degree heat as soon as you get back from doing it correctly.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:27 pm | #


Oh f**k off asshole! You mean to tell me that when anyone is hot they have the right to murder 3 generations of a family or to murder a pregnant woman? F**K off!!!!!!!
KayInMaine | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 4:30 pm | #

LOL, that's what I hear too! He has it down to a science so you don't see the little white ring around his nostril at the puppet show, er press conference.
rikc | 05.31.06 - 4:30 pm | #

Someone recently said:

George Washington is our first President about whose military service record much has been written,

and

George W Bush is the first President whose military service record disappered who can't even read.

Forgot who said that,
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 4:31 pm | #

ot,
BOBBY KENNEDY JR. TO QUESTION 2004 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IN MAJOR ROLLING STONE FEATURE ARTICLE!
Says 'Evidence Shows High-Level Republicans Suceeded in Scheme to Steal Election in Ohio'!
Mag to Hit Stands Friday, Internet on Thursday
http://www.bradblog.com/archives...es/ 00002891.htm
sans-culotte | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 4:31 pm | #

I say fuck it, at 2.5 Billion a week...get everybody the fuck out. The guys are spent. That's my whole point. For what those soldiers have been through, i'm surprised that only a single pregnant woman is dead.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:31 pm | #

[Howdy, tireiron chef. Seems like forever since we've been on the same thread at the same time.]
cadejo4 | 05.31.06 - 4:31 pm | #

Last time I was in 125 degree heat I looked for shade or a pool. I killed about 3 Miller Lites as fast as George can snort a line.
Fernando | 05.31.06 - 4:32 pm | #

Somehow, I think this is all in accordance to the Neocon plan. Endless chaos = endless presence = endless war profiteering. How very very tragic.
ezpz | 05.31.06 - 3:46 pm | #

--------------------
Bingo. That's the plan in a nutshell.
very very tragic
indeed
but far more diabolical and evil than good people can imagine.

The REAL terrorists are white men in business suits.
observant | 05.31.06 - 4:33 pm | #

True Fernando and unfortunately they're our right winger soldiers in the military!!!!!!!!!! I can't stand it.
KayInMaine | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 4:33 pm | #

To Mr. Moderate what would you say to this "what if" news report?Today in North Korea a pregnant woman in labor and another woman with her was shot an killed by North Korean troops as they drove at high speeds to the hospital so the baby could be born. The driver who lived said he saw no signs of warning about a checkpoint or to stop.So Mr.Moderate would you defend the North Korean troops?
david | 05.31.06 - 4:33 pm | #

Funny, Kay, I spent a lot of time In Laughlin NV, and it would regularly get to be 118, 120. Funny thing, nobody went around shooting pregnant women because of the heat. Must be something I'm missing in the trolls excuse?!
rikc | 05.31.06 - 4:33 pm | #

They can't be expected to be of sound mind and judgement after a while. You go over there and you'll understand why it's finally being referred to as a war! Remember when they wouldn't even use the term?
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:34 pm | #

I am more American than you ever hope to be Ben. But good luck with your narrow minded stupidity fool.
Fernando | 05.31.06 - 4:34 pm | #

Last time I was in 125 degree heat I looked for shade or a pool. I killed about 3 Miller Lites as fast as George can snort a line.
Fernando

You think likr this guy...

Hot?
http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/1gmar...006/05/ hot.html

:lol:
sans-culotte | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 4:35 pm | #

Accident??!!

If the gun is aimed and the trigger squeezed, I would think that even a hardened Neo-con (and I don't believe Moderate is one of those) could agree that an "Accident" it is not. Maybe if a soldier dropped her gun during a football game it would be an accident.
This story might be:

Ignorant
Tragic
Humiliating
Inhuman
Intentional
Grim
Gory
Ghastly
Unnerving
Disgraceful
Flagrant
Predictable
Criminal
Incompetent
Indelible
Expected
Ugly
Over-reaching
Uncontrollable


But absolutely not Accidental.
Lorax | 05.31.06 - 4:35 pm | #

Well, who are you going to believe--the military spokesperson, or the eyewitness?

Your answer will be very revealing.
Kevin J-M | 05.31.06 - 4:35 pm | #

I'm not convinced the military is full of right wingers Kay. Too many come back running as Democrats in the next election.
Fernando | 05.31.06 - 4:36 pm | #

Ben, you can f**k off too, okay asswipe? I'm so pissed off at YOUR PRESIDENT AND HIS WARMONGERING WHORES that I could literally push over a pine tree, pick it off the ground, and hit YOU and YOUR PRESIDENT squarely on YOUR F**KING HEADS!!!!
KayInMaine | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 4:38 pm | #

cadejo4, hi! I guess I've been busy looking for good synonyms for stupid for some of the trolls, but stupid remains a good standby. . .
tireiron chef | 05.31.06 - 4:38 pm | #

Shadow of tyree | 05.31.06 - 4:10 pm |

You are one sorry piece of yellow elephant dung, you aren't fit to breathe the same AIR as tireiron chef!

FUCK OFF and go home to Freeperville, clearly you're more at home there. :-:
Your Uncle Bastard | 05.31.06 - 4:38 pm | #

Gang, this is Ben's IP address, he's been banned from the blog numerous times. If he comes back again, contact his ISP and let them know he's violating their terms of service.

71.71.254.248
John Aravosis | 05.31.06 - 4:39 pm | #

The Iraqi people won't care if it was an accident, justified or anything else. To them it WILL be
American military forces KILLING
an unarmed person. Thats how they
will see it. There won't be any wait
for an investigation.

George Bush is to blame for this.
He chose to put troops in an untenable position. Everything
the troops do will be cast in the
worst light possible. If Marines
are giving out candy and an Iraqi
child chokes on it, the Americans
will be blamed. If the bullets that
killed the Iraqi woman were from insurgent snipers, the Americans will be blamed. If a mosque is struck
by lightning, the Americans will be blamed.

Mr. Bush put our fellow Americans in this position to prove his machismo.

If you are a praying person, pray for
those Americans serving over there.
They are us.
jay | 05.31.06 - 4:39 pm | #

No matter how many innocent people die in Iraq or Afghanistan, the people of both countries should be thanking God everyday that we granted them their freedom.

I say "Granted them their freedom" because if we wanted, the entire region could be a giant smoking crater, but instead, we've decided to try to help them get on their feet and live free.
-----------------

Ben, I didn't know that we lived in imperial Rome.

We didn't give anybody ANYTHING in either country other than chaos and bloodshed.
Freedom is self determined, not "dispensed" by some autocratic empire with big weaponry.... and small penises....
observant | 05.31.06 - 4:39 pm | #

Fernando | 05.31.06 - 4:36 pm | #

Agreed - They're just not allowed to state a political inclination as long as they're active duty. They just follow the orders of the right winger radicals.
ezpz | 05.31.06 - 4:40 pm | #

Our G.I.s have no options when a speeding auto fails to follow the procedures which are being enforced. They are victims of tragic circumstances just as the dead civilians are. I suspect it is very unlikely that they will need to be disciplined in any way. We should be concerned about their suffering, too.

Two Words: Donald Rumsfeld!
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 4:40 pm | #

Fernando, some go in as 'mighty republicans' (LOL) but almost always after viewing and participating the atrocities of war will become a democrat after they come home. Can you blame them?
KayInMaine | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 4:40 pm | #

For example, "Ben is an ignorant neocon fool who would wipe his dog's ass with the Constitution" is a good descriptive line, but "Ben is stupid" offers the beauty of verbal economy.
tireiron chef | 05.31.06 - 4:40 pm | #

I got no time for fools, Ben. Like I said good luck fool.
Fernando | 05.31.06 - 4:41 pm | #

What's the matter Ben?
Did you miss the bus to the troll convention?
sans-culotte | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 4:41 pm | #

Ben | 05.31.06 - 4:26 pm |

Just another on a LONG, LONG line of arrogant, murderous shitheads.

I am sure your Christ would be very proud of your amazingly unChristian attitude. :-:
Your Uncle Bastard | 05.31.06 - 4:41 pm | #

Folks, Ben is a regular troll. If he comes back, please let me know immediately. No more tolerance for these jerks.
John Aravosis | 05.31.06 - 4:41 pm | #

"..we need to stop getting hysterical every time we see news like this. Accidents, which this is, need to be diffentiated from acts of malice. I see less and less of that distinction on this board."
Mr. Moderate | 05.31.06 - 3:32 pm | #
---------------------------------------
That's the dittohead argument.

Collateral damage. Big fucking to do.

I'll bet if you, Mr. Moderate, was in a serious accident, you'd want a ambulance to haul ass to the nearest hospital. How 'bout blowing the tires out? Disabling the engine?

Oh, that's right. Their Muslims. They can just go fuck themselves.
Wilheim | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 4:41 pm | #

This uproar is a result of the liberal press. Where are the stories of all the pregnent women that we didn't kill?
tenacious b | 05.31.06 - 4:41 pm | #

Why, thank you, Uncle B.! :)
tireiron chef | 05.31.06 - 4:42 pm | #

The REAL terrorists are white men in business suits.
observant | 05.31.06 - 4:33 pm |
--------------------------------------------

Powell is not white!! He did sell it to the U.N.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:42 pm | #

Thanks John :)
sans-culotte | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 4:43 pm | #

I'll bet if you, Mr. Moderate, was in a serious accident, you'd want a ambulance to haul ass to the nearest hospital. How 'bout blowing the tires out? Disabling the engine?
_____________________________________________

You stop the driver, you have engine perts if you need them. It's war.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:43 pm | #

[Powell is not white!! He did sell it to the U.N.]

White enough. He serves his overlords.
tireiron chef | 05.31.06 - 4:44 pm | #

I wasn't pregnant on 9/11 and the terrorists attacked us anyway.

See?
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 4:44 pm | #

Got your back anytime, tireiron. 8)
Your Uncle Bastard | 05.31.06 - 4:45 pm | #

The really refreshing part of Ben's narrow minded comedy act is this:

When I saw George Bush steal the last election, I applied for MEXICAN citizenship. My family has been here since the 1600's, before America was formed, before Texas was formed.

I always considered Mexican politicians more corruput than American politicians but I no longer feel that way.
Fernando | 05.31.06 - 4:45 pm | #

Well, it seems we've gone beyond discussion and gone straight into fistfighting.

.
ShockNAppalled | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 4:46 pm | #

Sans, GREAT pic, I am laughing WAY to much at that!!!!
rikc | 05.31.06 - 4:46 pm | #

[I wasn't pregnant on 9/11 and the terrorists attacked us anyway.]

:lol:
tireiron chef | 05.31.06 - 4:46 pm | #

:+: :+: :+: :+: :+: :+:
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 4:47 pm | #

Shock, that's because you guys chose to engage the troll rather than notify me. You get the comment threads you deserve.
John Aravosis | 05.31.06 - 4:47 pm | #

This is from the linked article:
Jassim's brother, who was wounded by broken glass, said he did not see any warnings as he sped his sister to the hospital. Her husband was waiting for her there.

"I was driving my car at full speed because I did not see any sign or warning from the Americans. It was not until they shot the two bullets that killed my sister and cousin that I stopped," he said.

So for all those who say it's the responsibility of the Iraqi civilians to stop at checkpoints, this was not a checkpoint. And for those who say they should have seen the warnings and stopped, I will agree with your point if/when we see photographs/video of the incident that show where the signs were, what language they were in, and what the soldiers did prior to shooting.
Kevin J-M | 05.31.06 - 4:48 pm | #

Powell's not White? Did anyone bother telling him?
Fernando | 05.31.06 - 4:48 pm | #

WE ARE NOT IRAQIS.

IT IS NOT OUR COUNTRY.

WE HAVE NO FUCKING BUSINESS THERE.

WE DAMN SURE DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO BE MURDERING THEIR PEOPLE.

WHO IN THE HELL, ONE OF YOU DITTOHEAD FRUITCAKES TELL ME, GAVE US THE RIGHT TO OCCUPY A COUNTRY THAT DIDN'T DO SHIT TO US, NOR THREATEN US.

WE WILL PAY FOR THIS, GUARANTEED.
Wilheim | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 4:48 pm | #

I am sorry for my last post. I know too many truly wonderful White people. I was wrong.
Fernando | 05.31.06 - 4:50 pm | #

WE WILL PAY FOR THIS, GUARANTEED

Yeah, that's exactly what I think too, and the longer we stay for NO reason like we are doing, the MORE we'll end up paying.
rikc | 05.31.06 - 4:50 pm | #

It's amazing to see the trolls at work here. They have zero empathy for an innocent pregnant woman who was shot to death on the way to the hospital. How is that possible?

I'll tell you how. Because the Republican apologists in this country have no desire to empathize because they have had everything handed to them their whole lives. They know nothing of struggle, nothing of REAL fear (not the manufactured Bush administration version), and they know NOTHING of what it's like to think the next drive down the street you take could end up with you blown to bits by a roadside bomb.

Republicans disgust me.
The Crazy Liberal | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 4:51 pm | #

Fernando | 05.31.06 - 4:36 pm | #


Military service in a time or war, in a comabat zone makes troops into Liberals. As you say, a lot of these pinkos come back to run under the democratic platform. Democrats Liberals hate America. So, therefore military service is part of the liberal agenda to make our troops hate America.

This must be why Republicans don't serve during a time of war.
Antares | 05.31.06 - 4:52 pm | #

Even if you look at this from a purely tactical perspective, its not in America's best interest to wantonly shoot at anything that moves.

It's not in Americas best interest but it is in the immediate best interest of the guys doing the shooting. At least they think so at the time.
klyde | 05.31.06 - 4:52 pm | #

This uproar is a result of the liberal press. Where are the stories of all the pregnent women that we didn't kill?
tenacious b | 05.31.06 - 4:41 pm | #


Are you on crack? If the media was really liberal, IT WOULD HAVE REPORTED IT IN NOVEMBER OF LAST YEAR MORON! Will open up your mind for once and use your common sense (if that's possible with having a cannonball for a brain)? God dammit, I myself learned of the story way before Murtha knew about it! Myself and others were on the AOL message boards talking about it on every freaking board just to get the freaking message out!!!!!! But, where was the liberal media? Nowhere! The media is COMPLICENT IN THE ATROCITIES OF THIS ADMINISTRATION! They've turned their backs on the OLD AMERICA. They hate being just and good. Evil and Evilness is what they support....meaning......THEY SUPPORT THE BUSH WARPIGS WHOLEHEARTEDLY LIKE THE GOOD LITTLE PIGGIES THEY'VE BEEN TOLD TO BE. Warpigs.....every last one of them.

Let's not forget...in the future when the world sees Bush acting like Hitler and our country gets bombed and invaded.....DON'T COME RUNNING TO US WITH YOUR STORIES OF HOW THE RUSSIANS, CHINESE, AND WHOEVER ELSE WILL BE CHIMING IN, YOUR FAMILY WAS MURDERED! I, personally, won't care at that point because I will hate YOU as much as the world does. Your blindness now has caused that, imbecile!
KayInMaine | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 4:52 pm | #

Powell may have cards yet to be played. John Bolton may have spied on the wrong General, and the documentation of this spying may involve Bolton in the Plame Treason Scandal. Bolton might be Cheney's undoing.

Cheney is the most dangerous person on earth right now because he is cornered.
Dottie McDotterson | 05.31.06 - 4:53 pm | #

WHO IN THE HELL, ONE OF YOU DITTOHEAD FRUITCAKES TELL ME, GAVE US THE RIGHT TO OCCUPY A COUNTRY THAT DIDN'T DO SHIT TO US, NOR THREATEN US.

_____________________________________________

I don't agre with being there. I think the twins should be there, or at least Daddy should go on record as trying to coax them.

My point is that those soldiers just want to come home alive...and they intend to. They don't exactly WANT to be there.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:53 pm | #

Geez. The brother has to live with the thought that he might have missed a check point sign. He's fucked. His sister is dead and her husband is without his life partner so he is fucked. The soldiers who shot at the car now have to live the rest of their lives with the knowledge that they inadvertently shot a pregnant woman and her cousin racing to a hospital. They too are fucked.

This is lose-lose-lose-lose-lose, fucking lose. The longer we stay, the more everyone loses.

When my nephew was thinking about joining the army, I told him there are worse things than dying. This EXACT scenario is one I gave him as an example.
DanF | 05.31.06 - 4:53 pm | #

Wilheim,

A group of circle-jerking NeoCons with names like Kristol, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz and Bush gave the right to themselves. It's called, "war crimes."

Among intelligent people, that is.
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 4:54 pm | #

How many new generations of American Haters are being produced each day in Iraq? TONS. I'm embarrassed and ashamed and I spit on anyone who thinks that this war is just, that this war is fun, and that this war is protecting us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
KayInMaine | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 4:54 pm | #

I'm living Vietnam all over again and it isn't fun. We need to take to the streets again. That's the only thing that will stop it!!!
Lilly | 05.31.06 - 4:54 pm | #

I think the soldiers (well, most of them) are the victims in this too. First, they are trained the survival skill of hating the enemy. How else do you shoot, bomb and kill in cold blood. Second, they are taught to fear the emeny because the enemy will kill you. Third, add 3-4 tours of duty in a war-zone where bombs, rockets, shells are going off all the time and you are constantly in fear for your life. Trigger-happy, sure. How do we think any of us would cope with that environment. Even as bad as our guys have it, imagine being an Iraqi civillian trapped there also -- trying to raise your children, or just make dinner! We have to GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE and TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY!!!!
hereinOhio | 05.31.06 - 4:54 pm | #

I'm tired of holding my breath hoping that Powell was shit on and will someday come forward and tell us why Bush really wanted in there and WHEN he decided to go in no matter what and get a REAL investigation into 9/11.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:55 pm | #

All this from a 'pro-life' president.

Karma is a bitch and I keep praying it's looking the other way, 'cause if the hammer falls from the sins of this administration, its not Bush and his cronies that will pay, it will be all of the US.
Galactic Dustbin | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 4:55 pm | #

So john, I understand you delete any posts that don't toe your line and ban anyone who dares disagree with you. Why is that exactly? Scared?

___________________________________________

That's a lie. Pick a topic, Bitch.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:56 pm | #

John Aravosis | 05.31.06 - 4:47 pm |


You know, technically, if this was the thread I deserved there'd be towel boys and green apple margaritas.

I've been a very good girl.

.
ShockNAppalled | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 4:56 pm | #

That report makes me cry, as a mother and as a caring human being.

People who criticize the brother, the husband or anyone else for their newly found hatred of Americans just don't get it...and have no empathy for a people who had absolutely nothing against Americans until this occupation and the deaths of tens of thousands of their families, neighbors, friends, relatives.

Get out now. The reputation of the US is stained forever.

It's gotten to the point that I simply cannot even listen to the lies of the whores of this administration or their pimps.

I am focused on one thing only: the withdrawal of all troops from Iraq, and a Marshall Plan to rebuild it, without American contractors, at the direction, employment and pace of the Iraqi people themselves.

May they burn in their own personal hells forever.
Just Sayin' | 05.31.06 - 4:57 pm | #

sdf
sdf | 05.31.06 - 4:57 pm | #

Oh a lie? I'll tell my friends then. They must have accidentally banned themselves. I understand hwo you wouldn't know about it, anonymous, John cleans up evidence of all his crimes.
mommy | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 4:57 pm | #

Well look it was a shame but if car came at me full speed in Iraq most soldiers would have done what this soldier did. The real problem the way I see it is that we are stuck there. And we will stuck there for at least a few more years. Which really sucks if you joined the Guard or the Army. Man it is just a bad scene.
tommy in nyc | 05.31.06 - 4:57 pm | #

Sorry, I meant may the members of this adminsitration and their lackeys burn in their own personal hell forever.
Just Sayin' | 05.31.06 - 4:58 pm | #

Dittoheads and sympathizers, I asked you a simple damn question.

What are we doing there?

Forget that 36 Iraqi civilians who were bound and executed, including 20 women and children (Hadith and Blada) and this pregnant lady trying to make it to the hospital; just answer the question.

What in Gods name are we doing there?

Answer that IF YOU CAN.
Wilheim | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 4:58 pm | #

Listen we need to supoort the troops ..its sucks for them more than anyone but we CAN still critique the war and actions ....Thsi fish is rotten from the top ...Its Chaos over there BUT WE CREATED THE CHAOS AND WE ARE MORALLY RESPONSIBLE FOR ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
simeon wolf | 05.31.06 - 4:59 pm | #

Pick a topic!
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:59 pm | #

The fact is that since May of 2005 it has been U.S. military policy to randomly kill in cold blood civilians in Anbar province. I've been posting about this for several months now. . . some of these incidents are just now coming to light in the media. Amazing, even though they were reported on as far back as June of 2005 --but only placed in the back pages of the NYT, for example.

Pacification is the aim. Random murder by troops has often been used in the past by other invading/occupying forces in order to pacify a population. Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge were frequent practicioners of murder-to-pacify.

Sammy G
Sammy G | 05.31.06 - 5:00 pm | #

I only hope that when the emotional aspects of this very disturbing trend is over, that we spend some time forcing principles back into our politics.

I miss that Constitution and I especially miss the Bill of Rights.
Fernando | 05.31.06 - 5:00 pm | #

I'll take Mommy on!
BLOGGING BITCH! | 05.31.06 - 5:01 pm | #

The longer we stay, the more stuff like this will happen. Is it moral to stay?
ArcParser | 05.31.06 - 5:01 pm | #

One thing is certain.

1 Billion Mulsims hate us.

You can take that to the bank.
Verbers | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 5:01 pm | #

KayInMaine | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 4:54 pm |

Per the demographics of Muslim societies these days, in about 5 years hundreds of thousands of young Muslim males, many of whom perceive themselves as disenfrancised from the modern world, are going to come of age and be looking to emulate bin Laden and the martyrs of Iraq. Right now, they are storing up the images of America which will form the basis for their future hatred and zeal.

Nasty business.
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 5:02 pm | #

Yes we need to support the troops in the noble mission of getting our oil from under the Iraqis deserts. Yes indeed. My SUV doesn't run on air, you know! The mission is a noble one, and with gas prices what they are, we need to be sure to get the gas... "GET THE GAS! GET THE GAS! GET THE GAS!" C'mon, let me hear you, people... GET THE GAS...

Sammy G
Sammy G | 05.31.06 - 5:02 pm | #

Get out now. The reputation of the US is stained forever.
Just Sayin' | 05.31.06 - 4:57 pm |

So we invade them, turn their lives into a living hell, then ride off into the sunset because we're tired of playing war? That's just too irresponsible and arrogant.

We did this. And it's our place to find the best possible solution. I don't want to be there, but asking them to pay the price for our idiot foreign policy is beyond abhorrable.

I don't understand why we can't appeal to the fellow Arab states to form a transitional coalition and assist in patching together some type of workable system of government. They are going to be far more receptive to their ideas and solutions than to Westerners or the UN.

I just can't favor cutting and running. I wasn't raised to walk away from messes I create, just because it's easier for me.

.
ShockNAppalled | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 5:05 pm | #

Sarcasim and troll spew are nearly indistinguishable.
Fernando | 05.31.06 - 5:05 pm | #

rikc -

phew, glad I stayed out of that one :) I would have only blown up and made things worse, I think...

These trolls are just rich, aint they? Now they want to make US to blame for Iraq? US to blame for everything?

It's gone beyond sycophantic it seems, and now more resembles some psychotic, cultist mindset.

I mean, are only Democrats ashamed, disgusted and outraged when innocent people are (accidentally or otherwise) killed? I think not.

These people aren't even Republican's anymore... they are the end result of years and years of being 'programmed' by Faux News, Rush Limpballs and the rest of the cultist leaders.

The new Nazi's is what they really are: Psuedo-Christo-fascist-Fundamentalist-Radical Extremists is an more accurate description of the "brand W Rethugs", it seems.

It's gotten really old. Time to put these folks back where they belong.
900 lb Gorilla | 05.31.06 - 5:05 pm | #

Support our troops! I don't like pregnant muslims! Kill, kill, kill! Amen.
George's friend Jesus | 05.31.06 - 5:05 pm | #

Wilheim,

Consider the following document:

http://work.colum.edu/~amiller/ w...lfowitz1992.htm

Note, in particular, the paragraph at the bottom with the heading "Middle East and Southwest Asia"

This whole problem has a long history.
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 5:05 pm | #

kevin:

I will agree with your point if/when we see photographs/video of the incident that show where the signs were, what language they were in, and what the soldiers did prior to shooting.
Kevin J-M |

The signs were bilingual, in English and Spanish, like here in the USA.
wickedlady | 05.31.06 - 5:05 pm | #

Cold wind rippin
down the alley at dawn
and the morning paper flies
dead man lyin
by the side of the road
with the daylight in his eyes
Don't let it bring you down
it's only castles burning
Find someone who's turning
and you will come around.
neil young

Fuck you Bush.
bluesman | 05.31.06 - 5:05 pm | #

The real problem the way I see it .....
tommy in nyc | 05.31.06 - 4:57 pm | #


It's not a problem, it's a crime, noone says the soldier is the criminal...He was the murder weapon. The criminal is in the White House.
Lorax | 05.31.06 - 5:05 pm | #

The Israelis have vast experience in urban warfare and guerilla warfare. If they're such good allies, they need to be training US troops on an overall strategy and tactics for such a situation, which Iraq is.

We can't leave, because we broke their country. We can't stay, because we're making it worse.

Rock, meet hard place.

Sucks.
Grimmlok | 05.31.06 - 5:06 pm | #

Take her on Blogging Bitch! I've got your back covered! :-)
KayInMaine | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 5:07 pm | #

I have absolutely no respect for anyone who hides behind the word "anonymous" or who puts blogs that don't belong to them on the URL.

Cowards.
Terri | 05.31.06 - 5:07 pm | #

This incident reminds me of this...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/s...afar/html/ 1.stm

:o(
sans-culotte | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 5:08 pm | #

danF:

In response to your post about everyone being fu**ed, it appears that if you are in Iraq for any reason, you do get fu**ed.

Sad but true.
wickedlady | 05.31.06 - 5:08 pm | #

Shock, don't leave out this part of my post:

"I am focused on one thing only: the withdrawal of all troops from Iraq, and a Marshall Plan to rebuild it, without American contractors, at the direction, employment and pace of the Iraqi people themselves."

Now you're acting like a NeoCon asswipe.
Just Sayin' | 05.31.06 - 5:08 pm | #

It's basic procedure to shoot a car running a checkpoint the soldiers made no mistake, the woman did
bob | 05.31.06 - 5:09 pm | #

sans-culotte | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 5:08 pm | #

Damn it Sans, I don't think I can forgive you for putting that up without a stronger warning.
Lorax | 05.31.06 - 5:10 pm | #

Per the demographics of Muslim societies these days, in about 5 years hundreds of thousands of young Muslim males, many of whom perceive themselves as disenfrancised from the modern world, are going to come of age and be looking to emulate bin Laden and the martyrs of Iraq. Right now, they are storing up the images of America which will form the basis for their future hatred and zeal.

Nasty business.
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 5:02 pm | #


It is nasty business Dave. All I can think of is the young Iraqi boy near his father's dead body after an American soldier murdered him right in front of his eyes saying that he will take revenge of Americans for the rest of his life! What assholes like Rummmy and Dummy in the White House don't get is that the more we stay, the more unjustifiable killings we do.....the more terrorists we are creating who hate us! This young man will grow up to have childred and he will teach that to his son too. It's maddening and this is why I've always been against war!!!! Nothing good ever comes out of it and using peace and diplomacy is a much better plan. Even if peace and diplomacy don't work, well, then at least we can hold our heads up high because we did the right thing in the name of nation and the people who inhabit this Earth!
KayInMaine | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 5:11 pm | #

"It's basic procedure to shoot a car running a checkpoint the soldiers made no mistake, the woman did"

Yeah, how dare she not be backseat driving while giving birth.
Grimmlok | 05.31.06 - 5:11 pm | #

Sammy G
Not everyone missed them. Dahr Jamail has been reporting all the incidents. He has them long before any MSM. When I first started reading his articles, I wondered if they were "for real." After a time, I found the MSM reporting on them also, only it was usually a year or so later. Everything Dahr has reported has turned out to be true. Shame on us. Our government is no better than any rogue dictatorship -- oh, wait -- they have more power and money!
hereinOhio | 05.31.06 - 5:12 pm | #

What do you mean, KAY? That nothing good ever comes of war.... "WE GOT THE OIL NOW"... Geo. W. Bush, March 31, 2003.
Sammy G | 05.31.06 - 5:12 pm | #

It's basic procedure to shoot a car running a checkpoint the soldiers made no mistake, the woman did
bob | 05.31.06 - 5:09 pm | #

Living in her own country, going to he own hospital.

Read "The Ugly American", you're it.
Lorax | 05.31.06 - 5:13 pm | #

Blogging Bitch - I've got your back! Bring it on!
wickedlady | 05.31.06 - 5:14 pm | #

There are no more hearts and minds to lose. Bush should be tried for treason and war crimes.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 5:14 pm | #

Just go out and shop, Americans. Buy yourself some Doritos, put up your fat feet and watch some TV.
Pechorin | 05.31.06 - 5:14 pm | #

Lorax, oh he warned ya. The unsmily face from sans is it. He don't bullshit anyone.
bluesman | 05.31.06 - 5:15 pm | #

1 Billion Mulsims hate us.
You can take that to the bank.
Verbers 5:01

What's a Mulsim?

What a moran.
sans-culotte | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 5:15 pm | #

I don't fuck when bombs are going off and the Hospitals are too busy with matters other than the chaos my dick could cause. Sorry.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 4:23 pm |


I think that's the 'most stupidest' thing I've ever read.


Until 3 minutes later:
Ben | 05.31.06 - 4:26 pm |


But it gets better (stupider):

Some American's aren't American's Kay, ask Fernando.
Ben | 05.31.06 - 4:32 pm |


It's 'Americans', you dyslexic, genocide-loving, fascist clown.


Enough troll-baiting (sorry, all), I'm outta here.

This makes me wanna vomit.

.
jay walker | 05.31.06 - 5:16 pm | #

KayInMaine,

You may especially appreciate the following, if you haven't seen it:

http://news.independent.co.uk/ wo...ticle621899.ece

Book coming out.
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 5:16 pm | #

I'm sorry Lorax.
sans-culotte | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 5:17 pm | #

Coming up on Fox News - an exclusive interview with all the pregnant women in Iraq that the U.S. military did *not* shoot today! Some good news for a change, free from the stench of latte-sipping, hash-smoking Liberal Bias(TM)!

(bangs head against desk, repeatedly)
querido bobo | 05.31.06 - 5:17 pm | #

All the same bluesman,

I doubt seriously that I can return to my work, too damaged. Guess I'll have to loaf the rest of the day.
Lorax | 05.31.06 - 5:17 pm | #

It's basic procedure to shoot a car running a checkpoint the soldiers made no mistake, the woman did
bob | 05.31.06 - 5:09 pm | #


Hate to say - that MAY be the truth of the matter...

however, I don't think any one of us, sitting in front of our PC's, can sit here and judge those Soldiers.

THEY have to live with this the rest of their lives...

Does anyone think they just shot the women for the FUN of it? I think not.

These guys are getting shot at from all sides, sniped, IED'd... this is one of the sad truths of war - and just one of reasons why we should have never gone there...

War should never be anything BUT an absolute last choice... and this war was anything BUT that. It was Georgie's little adventure- rushed along to fit in with the election cycle. That's the real crime - Bush put these kids there - for HIS reasons - with NO plan - other than to secure the OIL.

It's nothing short of the crime of the century.
900 lb Gorilla | 05.31.06 - 5:17 pm | #

Let's be honest. They've been killing civilians all along. It's just now getting press.

Whenever they had one of those inner city battles and reported 40 insurgents dead, no civilians, I was thinking: "yeah, right.......". I mean, it didn't pass the "smell test." Now, finally, the Iraqis are starting to call them on it.

Same with the battles in Afghanistan. Just recently they had like 80 Taliban dead or something. Right. And, of course, now even our puppet in Afghanistan's starting to call them on it.

The civilian death toll has been the dirtiest lie going.
Bush Bites | 05.31.06 - 5:18 pm | #

ShockNAppalled:
OK - in a way I see your point however (and it's a huge however) what is the answer here?

You say we broke it so we can't leave. When is it fixed? How is it fixed? How do we know when it's fixed? According to whose specifications?

When is it ok to bring our boys/girls home back to their normal lives and get the hell out of Iraq?

Maybe if we LEFT Iraq, these tribes could simply divide as they have done in the past?

Yes we broke it, but as Americans we do not have the right to fix it according to our way. No matter what we do, it isn't going to be Iraqi.

So whoever said "Rock Meet Hard Place" hit the nail on the head!
wickedlady | 05.31.06 - 5:19 pm | #

sans

All is forgivin. Bluesman explained it to me and I'll be more vigilant of the sad faces.
Lorax | 05.31.06 - 5:20 pm | #

sans- I remember when you showed me some stuff I didn't know regarding depleted uranium. I was pretty pissed I saw that but it one of my biggest rants now. Thanks for pissing me off that one time.
Fernando | 05.31.06 - 5:20 pm | #

Now I know the REAL name of this war on terror ...

'NO CHILD LEFT ALIVE'

I am ashamed to be an American ...

DB
DB | 05.31.06 - 5:20 pm | #

Anonymous
My guess is that they will get away with all of it. Diebold has our votes. Who/what/where/how will they be stopped?
hereinOhio | 05.31.06 - 5:20 pm | #

The US has absolutely no intention of getting out of Iraq now or in any forseeable future. Get used to it, as long as BushCo is in power, we will be there. The bases which are totally self contained mini suburbs in the desert with bus service, fast food, minimalls are already built. The airport boasts as much traffic as O'Hare.
Why is the US building the largest embassy in the world iin Bagdahd?
Whether these particularly tragic deaths were accidental or otherwise is of little importance to the occupational machinery in place. This is not about puny little humans, this is about oil and The (fucking) American (fucking) Century!!
These bastards have got to be dealt with and I don't think that electing "Democrats" is going to do it......
patrick | 05.31.06 - 5:21 pm | #

Lorax | 05.31.06 - 5:13 pm | #

Yeah, Lorax - you ARE right. We shouldn't be there. THis wouldn't - and shouldn't have happened. It is moer Bush's fault than the Soldiers though.

I just know these guys are messed up for real now. I;ve seen it first hand. THey have to live with all the horror that they've seen... and done.

Bush is to blame. Bush.

He wanted this war - not the kids who joined the Army to protect THEIR country after 9/11...

THis whole thing is one giant clusterfuck.

But Bush wants to stay the course... yeah, right into hell.
900 lb Gorilla | 05.31.06 - 5:23 pm | #

Now you're acting like a NeoCon asswipe.
Just Sayin' | 05.31.06 - 5:08 pm |

I'm so busted. Yes, I'm secretly a NeoCon sent here to test my ability to withstand witty comebacks.

Looks like I'm doing okay so far.

.
ShockNAppalled | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 5:23 pm | #

sans what was your purpose in posting those photos? Are you trying to claim our troops are sadists? Because they aren't.
tommy in nyc | 05.31.06 - 5:23 pm | #

You get deleted because this is not a hate filled neocon blog.

You obfuscate and smell.
Fernando | 05.31.06 - 5:24 pm | #

I'll take Mommy on!
BLOGGING BITCH! | 05.31.06 - 5:01 pm |

YAy! Nobody messes with BLOGGING BITCH!

You go, gal!
jay walker | 05.31.06 - 5:24 pm | #

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/ 2...ain592330.shtml

Those maps of Iraqi oil reserves, seen in the oval office by many during the first weeks of the Bush Administration, were there for a reason.
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 5:24 pm | #

Whoever said that Fernando isn't American doesn't know anything about American history (and America includes Canda, U.S.A., and Mexico). If you're gonna say America, then at least learn how to distinguish between U.S.A. and America.

And Mexicans can come over here all they want. They aren't bothering me, they're just trying to make a better life for themselves and unfortunately, those in power and those morons that are the Minutemen are too stupid and too racist to understand that hatred is wrong.

And as for what happened in Iraq, that kind of stuff happens everyday unfortunately, we just don't hear about it unless the press is allowed to get the information. We need to do all we can to get out of Iraq ASAP because Iran's next if we don't, and then its any other country that doesn't mesh with George Bush's plan to bring on his fictituous "rapture" (the fundamentals still call it that right?).
ScootFL | 05.31.06 - 5:25 pm | #

Let's be honest. They've been killing civilians all along. It's just now getting press.
--
true, I'm sure. Just like how we knew the war was based on fraudulent intelligence. The evidence was out there for anyone to look at, but somehow the MSM just missed it.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 5:27 pm | #

I am ashamed to be an American ...

DB


Me too, DB... Me too.

Boy, it just seems like a lifetime ago - when Clinton was Prez -that we were cruisin... at peace... all was good.

Then along came Bush.. the 'world wrecker'...

ahhh cripes. i gotta go - catch ya'll later
900 lb Gorilla | 05.31.06 - 5:27 pm | #

OT...

At the Exxon shareholders meeting today, both NY and NC state retirement funds withheld millions of votes in protest of high gas prices and the obscene retirement package of Lee Raymond. Even so, the board approved the Raymond's pay.

CNN called it a "shot across the bow" to Exxon, reporting that one protestor called Exxon the "new Enron."
Just Sayin' | 05.31.06 - 5:28 pm | #

RaptureRighters.

But I've wondered now, 100 years from now and NO Rapture, what will they call themselves?
wickedlady | 05.31.06 - 5:28 pm | #

What ShockNappalled is saying is when one is driving his or her car and the car is heading straight for a brick wall, he thinks it's best to stay the course. He would rather have our soldiers in a civil war because he cares more about appearing 'weak' rather than smart. He would rather that our soldiers die over many years and be used by the wealthy men of our country. And....I bet he never ever ever once called Bush Sr. 'weak' when he pulled out of Iraq years ago! I bet he didn't!
KayInMaine | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 5:29 pm | #

*did not read whole thread*
Granted, we do not belong there. We haven't from the very beginning. But, road blocks/check points have been in place for some time now.
abarts | 05.31.06 - 5:30 pm | #

Any honest people, who have been involved in a combat zone, will tell you that the civilians suffer most. Inadvertent killings occur in ALL wars. So do atrocities.
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 5:31 pm | #

Kay, Kay, Kay, Kay, Kay,

Please go to dictionary.com and look up the meaning of sarcasm.

I don't know that I can publish my true thoughts on the matter without getting a visit from the Secret Service.

b!
tenacious b | 05.31.06 - 5:31 pm | #

Ben, please explain why Redstate.com demands it's bloggers to wait 5-7 days approval before being allowed to post on that site? And why is it there are no liberal bloggers on it? Oh, I get it!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY HATE FREE SPEECH! John has allowed right wingers on this blog for years now, but you know what, HIM AND I AND OTHERS ARE SICK OF YOU. You're a virus and should be dealth with as such.
KayInMaine | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 5:32 pm | #

Yes we broke it, but as Americans we do not have the right to fix it according to our way. No matter what we do, it isn't going to be Iraqi.

So whoever said "Rock Meet Hard Place" hit the nail on the head!
wickedlady | 05.31.06 - 5:19 pm |

I agree with you, it can't be fixed the 'American way'. But it can't be left in chaos for those innocent people we introduced a bloodbath to.

Which is why I was positing a united solution of their own, incorporating their beliefs and religious culture.
Although, due to the very nature of it's cobbled together infrastructure, this in itself is a delicate procedure requiring the utmost skills of diplomacy and negotiation.

Since our current ability to conduct foreign policy is nonexistent, we can give up on the idea of being the 'lead' on that proposal. No one can perform laser surgery with a blunt instrument.

.
ShockNAppalled | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 5:33 pm | #

The rapture is NOT an exit strategy
graymatter | 05.31.06 - 5:33 pm | #

Again, someone define "stay the course". This appears to be the course that has no end because no one ever stopped to think what would happen after the actual bombing campaign.

We're still waiting for the flower children to hug our soldiers.

I have this vision of us being there forever for oil. Perhaps we could annex Iraq? They could have their own Senators and Congressboobs?
wickedlady | 05.31.06 - 5:34 pm | #

War should never be anything BUT an absolute last choice... and this war was anything BUT that. It was Georgie's little adventure- rushed along to fit in with the election cycle. That's the real crime - Bush put these kids there - for HIS reasons - with NO plan - other than to secure the OIL.

It's nothing short of the crime of the century.
900 lb Gorilla
--
Exactly. The fallout from this war will last for decades, WHEN we get out of it. Bush is repsonsible for all of this. The death, the destruction, the maiming and the mental incapacitation and destruction. He is the one who ultimately must be punished. I don't know how we get to this point, but Bush needs to be tried for war crimes and treason. He needs to be made an example of so future generations don't make the same mistake.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 5:34 pm | #

The consequences of Bush's pre-emptive, unnecessary war. Every life lost has been avoidable and unnecessary. Bush and Cheney are responsible for thousands of deaths because of sheer greediness and bull headed stubborness, and their inability to listen to voices of reason. What a tragic situation, the massacre at Haditha, now this poor woman whose crime was rushing to the hospital to give birth. Makes one wonder what kind of God Bush is listening to; because the God I know will not condone or want innocent people dying. We have a couple of lunatics running our country, and the whole world suffer's because of them.
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 5:34 pm | #

How long before people take a stand and say no more?
I no longer support the troops.
They kill women and children.
Brought to Tears | 05.31.06 - 5:35 pm | #

Ben,

Why don't you engage in some of the hard work of gaining legitimate rudimentary knowledge of recent history and then come back when you have something relevent to say?
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 5:36 pm | #

900 lb Gorilla | 05.31.06 - 5:23 pm | #

(and also tommy in nyc)

If...

A) The poeple were innocent and
B) The "war" is unjust

Then their deaths were murder and the soldiers were either the murders or the murder weapons

I believe it's the latter and therefore the "real killer" is still at large. No one needs O.J. to solve this. The Murders are Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rummy and the rest.

I don't believe any of this is controversial (here anyway).

The real quandary is...The Republicans will only make it worse if we stay. There may be a way to stay and make things better, but the time for that choice was in '04 and won't be around again till '08 and it's inhumane to make the Iraqi people wait till we deal with our criminals before doing anything to repair their crimes.
Lorax | 05.31.06 - 5:36 pm | #

This is Ben's latest IP, and the time stamp of his latest post - feel free to contact his Internet provider and let them know he continues to return to this site after he's been banned repeatedly and ask to leave.

05.31.06 - 5:31 pm Eastern
IP: 207.195.240.63

Edited By Siteowner
John Aravosis | 05.31.06 - 5:36 pm | #

Ben - Yes we came with Cortez as conquistadores, escaping the Spanish Inquisition as recently converted Christians and one time Jews. A terrible sin indeed.

But then I didn't say anything about the INS dipshit. And there is higher learning since - some of us do that.

John - Please delete if possible when you erase the pin headed retard.
Fernando | 05.31.06 - 5:36 pm | #

The whole world hates you even more now. It is difficult to believe that is possible (I mean the "more" bit).
Stew in Italy | 05.31.06 - 5:36 pm | #

But I've wondered now, 100 years from now and NO Rapture, what will they call themselves?
wickedlady | 05.31.06 - 5:28 pm |

Left Behind.

:lol:

.
ShockNAppalled | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 5:37 pm | #

sans what was your purpose in posting those photos? Are you trying to claim our troops are sadists? Because they aren't.
tommy in nyc


I meant nothing more than what I wrote. This incident shooting the pregnant woman reminds me of that earlier incident.

I know +99% of our troops are just doing their duty in a F'ed up situation they aren't to blame for. The lying scumbags who got us into this mess are to blame for every death, US and Iraqi.

This whole mess with terrorists and Iraq can be traced right back to the Republican foreign policy of reagan and Bush senior. We are hated by the middle east Muslims, most particularly Wahabbi Muslims, because of stupid ass Republican foreign policy. Enemy of my enemy is my friend for warfare by proxy is NEVER good foreign policy.

It always causes Blowback.

"Blowback" is a CIA term ... for the unintended consequences of the US government's international activities that have been kept secret from the American people.,/i>
http://www.thenation.com/doc/200...0011015/ johnson

We wouldn't have any probs from al Qaeda if it weren't for Charlie Wilson's War in the 80's funneling 100s of millions in weapons to bin Laden and his boys teaching them how to fight a superpower as a stateless actor.

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA v. USAMA BIN LADEN, et al. (pdf)
PATRICK FITZGERALD
KENNETH KARAS
PAUL BUTLER
Assistant United States Attorneys

In December of 1979, the former Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan. The Arab mujahadeen, led in part by Usama Bin Laden, rallied, and with the backing of the United States Government, not always the overt backing of the United States, but with often the covert backing of the United States, mobilized to repel the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. (p. 56)
http://files.findlaw.com/ news.fi...aden50801tt.pdf

Here's a pic of Rep Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA) back in his days when he was hanging with our al Qaeda buds in the 80s.
http://photos1.blogger.com/ blogg...her_Taliban.jpg
Cant' help but wonder why Bushco sent Dana to meet with the taliban 5 months before 9-11.
http://www.commondreams.org/view...s02/0907- 05.htm

Even Saddam was our buddy back then too.

Shaking Hands: Iraqi President Saddam Hussein greets Donald Rumsfeld, then special envoy of President Ronald Reagan, in Baghdad on December 20, 1983.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSA...SAEBB/NSAEBB82/
sans-culotte | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 5:39 pm | #

We have lunatics running the country, and a general population that isn't/can't do enough to stop them. The majority of the population doesn't care, some can't get their voices heard loud enough, and some agree with the lunatics.

What do we need to do to separate ourself from the loons in the White House and let history know that not ALL of us are complicit?
JohnS | 05.31.06 - 5:39 pm | #

Dave! I can't wait to read Norm Chomsky's book. It should be arriving soon because an online friend of mine sends me most of the new political books! My library is quite full! Well, I say library...what I really mean is my small bookcase is full and you can't see the floor around it. :-)
KayInMaine | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 5:40 pm | #

Republicans are just terrible at national security.
sans-culotte | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 5:41 pm | #

sans - I agree.
Wilheim | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 5:42 pm | #

:+: :+: :+:
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 5:43 pm | #

ShockNAppalled:

But...but...but!
Don't you see, it is between a rock and a hard place.

We have no choice but to leave because we have lost credibility and any ability to fix anything there! If we had just broken it and were trying to do the right thing, that would be one thing.

But even up to today, we are getting spun deeper and deeper into this quagmire.

We don't have an exit strategy (we never really had any plans on what to do after we arrived). It seems we have found ourselves occupying this Muslim Country and not knowing what to do with it except blow it up.

Our soldiers are tired, they are scared, they want to come home. No one wants to shoot pregnant women.

Perhaps now that Hagel has introduced a bill to reinstate the draft, this will have to be dealt with. The only reason we've become so caught up in this is because it is not every woman's son who is getting drafted. The minute this war becomes personal to individuals, the pressure will ratchet up.

But if you have that magic wand and can fix Iraq, maybe you should give it a try. I don't have the answer, except that we don't belong there. It is not our country. And I'm sick and tired of everyone hating us for what our lamebrain Administration is doing.
wickedlady | 05.31.06 - 5:43 pm | #

Bush and Cheney need to be impeached and face trial for war crimes. That is the only way to begin to set things right.
mother of two | 05.31.06 - 5:40 pm | #

----

I agree, Mo2.

That is the only way that I will ever feel that Justice will be served to the war pigs for their heinous crime against humanity.
900 lb Gorilla | 05.31.06 - 5:43 pm | #

Kay: ;)
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 5:43 pm | #

wow..Are you required to sign an oath of loyalty to Bush to get on redstate.com?..so sad..
VM | 05.31.06 - 5:43 pm | #

"So we invade them, turn their lives into a living hell, then ride off into the sunset because we're tired of playing war? That's just too irresponsible and arrogant.

We did this. And it's our place to find the best possible solution. I don't want to be there, but asking them to pay the price for our idiot foreign policy is beyond abhorrable.

I don't understand why we can't appeal to the fellow Arab states to form a transitional coalition and assist in patching together some type of workable system of government. They are going to be far more receptive to their ideas and solutions than to Westerners or the UN.

I just can't favor cutting and running. I wasn't raised to walk away from messes I create, just because it's easier for me."


The problem is you are fucking shit at peacekeeping!

Your presence is not helping matters.

The American troops should fuck off, put up a big fat trust fund and allow better equipped countries who actually train their troops in not slaughtering people to help the Iraqis
Reggie | 05.31.06 - 5:45 pm | #

I am wondering when we see the little girl with half her skin burned off, screaming and running
naked down the street. It's only a matter of time.
Lilly | 05.31.06 - 5:48 pm | #

I concur with Lorax and Sans...

We have to end this crime. It's one big, on-going crime against humanity and it has to stop.

I fear, in the end, only GOD will bring justice to Bush and the warpigs.

Now who or exactly what GOD is, well... I don't know.

But I do know there is justice, Karma, or whatever you want to call it..

His time will come.
900 lb Gorilla | 05.31.06 - 5:48 pm | #

900lbG:

But you can't have impeachment if you don't have the votes!
And when Nancy Pelosi says that even if the Dems take back the House or Senate there will be NO impeachment proceedings, where do we go from there?

Impeachment sounds good, but you have to have a majority to get a hearing, unless the states get into the act. Even if Congress if forced into an Impeachment hearing by the State Legislatures, the Rethugs control both Houses.

We have no choice but to vote and try and win.
wickedlady | 05.31.06 - 5:49 pm | #

At Conspiracy Corner they're saying that Haditha was a military effort to hasten the end of the war. It seems to have been well documented by Military Intelligence.
David Robinson | 05.31.06 - 5:51 pm | #

Lilly -

They've worked real hard to keep those pictures out of the Media - and the MSM has played right along..

But that doesn't mean that it hasn't happened... in fact it's probably happened 100 times.

But Bush and the warpigs - and their zombie followers wanted you only to see glory in war (like Bush's self-glorification on that carrier) - NOT the real horror that war actually is.

The MSM was so proud to bring you the footage when they were imbedded, riding in on tanks with the wind in their hair - but NOW, that it's just people being slaughtered in the streets, our kids getting their arms and legs and faces blown off - the mysteriously start covering Natalie Holloway again.

It was the farce of the century.

I KNEW the war was lost the day I saw Bush's 'Mission Accomplished' bullshit - because it showed that THEY had NO IDEA that it wasn't about the initial military strike - it was about winning the peace = something that may not even be impossible to do, as evidenced by Vietnam and so on...

ahh , what a mess
900 lb Gorilla | 05.31.06 - 5:54 pm | #

wickedlady -

well, I'm not a big Pelosi fan in the first place, but I think she's just trying to shelve the issue until the elections are over...

also, impeachment, I think, is too good for these bastards.

I'm thinking firing squad.
900 lb Gorilla | 05.31.06 - 5:57 pm | #

Anyone remember this?

http://www.michaelmoore.com/word...ndex.php? id=235
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 5:59 pm | #

Mo2 - I didn't hear those details...

jees - either way you cut it, it's true horror.

and another reason why we shouldn't be there.
900 lb Gorilla | 05.31.06 - 5:59 pm | #

I have heard that Nancy's husband is a K St Lobbyist so she's actually a "Dem" in name only.
wickedlady | 05.31.06 - 5:59 pm | #

Lilly, you missed it. When our military went into Fallujah, they used a form of NAPALM (Rummy remixed it and then renamed it something like MK57 or something like that...but it had the same effect...fire with no flame...skin burning off) and we ended up killing @ 4,000 people! And when the bodies were discovered, many had melted skin. Disgusting and yet another shameful act done in America's name by our military under the command of Rummy and Dummy!
KayInMaine | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 6:02 pm | #

According to the Houston Chronicle, the "prohibited zone sign" that was off-limits was only 100 meters from the maternity hospital!!! It had only just been put in place TODAY!

What is really a joke is the miniscule SIZE of the SIGN is about the size of a Bush/Cheney sign somebody would have in their front yard!

Picture of the sign at:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story....ld/ 3918294.html
Grant in Houston | 05.31.06 - 6:02 pm | #

wouldn't doubt it.. She doesn't do anything for our cause.

We need someone who can stand up to the bully mentality. Stand up and call out the press.

Maybe Gore reborn can... but not sure he will...

Ahhh well... catch ya'll tomorrow...

Parting thought: can you imagine being that kid that just shot and killed a pregnant lady?

nothing will spare him from a lifetime of guilt and nightmares...

whether it was his fault or not.

We have to bring them home from this disgraceful, despicable sham.

c ya'll later
900 lb Gorilla | 05.31.06 - 6:04 pm | #

I'm thinking firing squad.
900 lb Gorilla | 05.31.06 - 5:57 pm | #

No, Gorilla. I don't want them to see a firing squad. As was said before... there are fates worse than death. I think we should find one for them.
JohnS | 05.31.06 - 6:04 pm | #

Sweet Jebus

I can hardly make out text in that pic, how they can claim that is appropriate for a checkpoint where if you don't stop you get fucking SHOT with a straight face is beyond me.
Reggie | 05.31.06 - 6:05 pm | #

At Conspiracy Corner they're saying that Haditha was a military effort to hasten the end of the war. It seems to have been well documented by Military Intelligence.
David Robinson | 05.31.06 - 5:51 pm | #


TREASONOUS!
KayInMaine | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 6:06 pm | #

jeepers, Grant. I have to read up -I dodn't see any of the details...

If that is true - OMG.

What a disaster this whole thing is..
900 lb Gorilla | 05.31.06 - 6:06 pm | #

Set the stage for a tragedy and it will most likely occur.
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 6:09 pm | #

Yeah, JohnS

..but it may not be up to US to deliver their fate to them...

Let's hope not at least.
900 lb Gorilla | 05.31.06 - 6:09 pm | #

WHY would they put a sign with a checkpoint that close to a maternity hospital?

As someone who has actually experienced Labor, those soldiers have NO idea what they're gonna have to deal with if they try to stop a lady before she delivers!!!!!!!!!!

Just from a personal observation - that is THE stupidest place to put a checkpoint that someone could devise.

So who's running this war, the 3 stooges?
wickedlady | 05.31.06 - 6:10 pm | #

The Associated Press says the coalition forces ONLY fired upon "the car after it entered a clearly marked prohibited area near an observation post but failed to stop despite repeated visual and auditory warnings.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Sat...icle% 2FShowFull

Yeah, the sign was about the size of a "tow-away zone" sign I once parked under in Chicago that was about 12 feet up in the air above me that was hard to see and caused me a couple hundred dollar towing and impound fee!
Grant in Houston | 05.31.06 - 6:10 pm | #

Iraq is one big, daily on-going tragedy.

A REAL crime against humanity... all to satiate the greed and lust for power of a few bastards.

uh... I gotta go
900 lb Gorilla | 05.31.06 - 6:11 pm | #

"So who's running this war, the 3 stooges?"

That would be such an improvement!
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 6:12 pm | #

What were the "auditory warnings"?

Gunshots?
Reggie | 05.31.06 - 6:12 pm | #

If some American advocate shooting pregnant Mexican women at the border, then it is no biggie to kill pregnant Iraqi women and children.
Frankensteins on the rampage.
LCM | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 6:17 pm | #

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/ 20060..._usa_haditha_dc

Probe finds Haditha killings unprovoked
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 6:18 pm | #

Grant put up the link for the sign, erected today. Here's a repeat. Look at it. This is shameful. No more "support the troops" bullshit. We have ignorant idiots for troops. Uneducated, badly-trained assholes with guns. This the prison crowd we released for Iraq?:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story....ld/ 3918294.html
Hornet | 05.31.06 - 6:21 pm | #

Yes, for the next hour on Lou Dobb's show, the ONLY problem in the world are those damned Mexicans. Shoot 'em all!
Grant in Houston | 05.31.06 - 6:22 pm | #

We have ignorant idiots for troops. Uneducated, badly-trained assholes with guns.
Hornet | 05.31.06 - 6:21 pm |

Those 'uneducated, ignorant, idiots' happen to be some of my closest friends. How about stepping back on condemning the whole entire military on the actions of a few?

.
ShockNAppalled | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 6:23 pm | #

Grant in Houston | 05.31.06 - 6:10 pm
Suuuure. The kid could hear the soldiers over his sister's screams in the car as she was undergoing labor. The J Post is WH rag, and completely compromised.
Hornet | 05.31.06 - 6:23 pm | #

Note the blackened out part of that sign!!! Is that a part of the sign or has Bush "classified" what is says???

http://www.chron.com/disp/story....ld/ 3918294.html
Grant in Houston | 05.31.06 - 6:24 pm | #

No one said they were intelligent. Just caught up in circumstances which needn't have been brought about.
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 6:25 pm | #

Bushist fascists are just like, SO pro-life. As long as one's a blastocyst.
No Blood for Hubris | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 6:26 pm | #

When Abu Ghraib exploded there was a flurry of interest in the Zimbardo Prison Study. It speaks volumes about what happens to soldiers in places like Iraq, so here it is again.

http://www.prisonexp.org/
Lorax | 05.31.06 - 6:26 pm | #

"Those 'uneducated, ignorant, idiots' happen to be some of my closest friends. How about stepping back on condemning the whole entire military on the actions of a few?"

The few is getting to look like a pretty significant number. Not quite the few bad apple situation some would have us believe.
Reggie | 05.31.06 - 6:26 pm | #

" It'd be even more screw up for us to just high tail it and let the country descend into civil war. That's as irresponsible a policy as Bush getting us there in the first place."

I think that is such BS. IT IS IN CIVIL WAR!!!! The longer we are there the WORSE it gets. GET OUT NOW!

Why don't we ask the Iraqis what they want instead of assuming it will
"be worse" when we leave.

Talk about ego.
j9 | 05.31.06 - 6:26 pm | #

ShockNAppalled | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 6:23 pm
I have the same. But Rumsfeld decided to lower the standards and empty the minimum-security prisons and put people in representing our country who have no damn business holding a gun.
Police academy trainees have better sense -- and better training -- then these idiots whose behavior is appalling and criminal.
Hornet | 05.31.06 - 6:28 pm | #

[No, Gorilla. I don't want them to see a firing squad. As was said before... there are fates worse than death. I think we should find one for them.]

To the pain, Princess Bride style?

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/ The..._Princess_Bride
tireiron chef | 05.31.06 - 6:29 pm | #

No blood for hubris, even a blastocyst, a hollow ball of undifferentiated cells the size of the period at the end of this line, is a "full-fledged human being", with all of the rights that implies, to the right-wing religious.
Grant in Houston | 05.31.06 - 6:30 pm | #

Donald Rumsfeld
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 6:30 pm | #

Humperdink: To the death!
Westley: No, to the pain.
Humperdinck: I don't think I'm quite familiar with that phrase.
Westley: I'll explain. And I'll use small words so that you'll be sure to understand, you wart-hog-faced buffoon.
Humperdinck: That may be the first time in my life a man has dared insult me.
Westley: It won't be the last. To the pain means the first thing you lose will be your feet, below the ankles, then your hands at the wrists, next your nose.
Humperdinck: — and then my tongue, I suppose. I killed you too quickly the last time, a mistake I don't mean to duplicate tonight.
Westley: I wasn't finished. The next thing you lose will be your left eye, followed by your right —
Humperdinck: — and then my ears, I understand. Let's get on with it —
Westley: Wrong! Your ears you keep, and I'll tell you why — so that every shriek of every child at seeing your hideousness will be yours to cherish — every babe that weeps at your approach, every woman who cries out, "Dear God, what is that thing?" will echo in your perfect ears. That is what "to the pain" means. It means I leave you in anguish, wallowing in freakish misery forever.
tireiron chef | 05.31.06 - 6:30 pm | #

Grant, thanks for posting that link to the picture.
tireiron chef | 05.31.06 - 6:31 pm | #

Lorax | 05.31.06 - 6:26 pm
It's leadership and lack of a defined mission. And that sniveling piece of shit Prez and Dr. Strangelove VP we have running this country.

Impeachment would be too good for them. I want them to suffer embarrassment to their reputations and freedom one ugly day at a time.
Hornet | 05.31.06 - 6:32 pm | #

tireiron chef | 05.31.06 - 6:31 pm
I ditto tireiron, Grant. You're on the ball. That photo SPEAKS VOLUMES. You also know they shoved it up after the fact, the miserable pieces of shit.
Hornet | 05.31.06 - 6:33 pm | #

LCM | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 6:17 pm
Sadly, you're right.
Hornet | 05.31.06 - 6:35 pm | #

Yeah, what I said, here: http://www.haloscan.com/ comments...0283070#1648304

How much is enough? I met this cute, young girl online and added her to my Messenger contact list. She didn't live far away and was someone I might actually meet someday. You can imagine my distress when she added me to her e-mail list and began sending radical, extremist, right-wing hate messages (preceding the last presidential election) recruiting votes for Dubya by calling Kerry and democrats every filthy, obscene name you ever heard. Well, I dug around and found an article where the author called Bush the worst president in history (even back then) and sent it to her and everyone on her list.

I asked everyone to fill in the blanks for the war: how many Americans must die...how many billions of dollars must we spend...how many innocent civilians must die...before you say "that's enough?" Life taught me you put a zero in the blanks.

She removed me from her mailing list and Messenger contact list, and I haven't heard from her since.
______________
My sister-in-law is watching Condi on PBS. She just told me Dubya keeps her around because she can open beer bottles with her teeth.
«—Ū®Āņŭ§—» | 05.31.06 - 6:35 pm | #

Reggie, as always, ONLY the grunts at the bottom of the military ladder will be prosecuted, not some brainy senior officer who designed a ONE SQUARE FOOT SIGN warning sign to be hidden against a stone wall behind some debris!

Unlike Harry Truman (who Bush likes to compare himself to along with Jesus, Julius Caesar, Napoleon Bonaparte, etc.), the "buck" now stops at the "Buck private"!
Grant in Houston | 05.31.06 - 6:35 pm | #

For those old enough to remember "Leave it to Beaver", doesn't Bush seem a lot like Eddie Haskell?
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 6:38 pm | #

I keep CNN on for "white noise" (for my tinnitus!) and have YET to hear about this cold-blooded murder of two women, and a fetus in Iraq. Just more of the same racist blather from Lou Dobbs and Kitty Pilgrim.

BTW, Larry King has the Dixie Chicks on tonight. Wonder if his phone screeners will keep out those "Chicks haters" like they so sanitized the calls to Mary Cheney.
Grant in Houston | 05.31.06 - 6:40 pm | #

"Reggie, as always, ONLY the grunts at the bottom of the military ladder will be prosecuted, not some brainy senior officer who designed a ONE SQUARE FOOT SIGN warning sign to be hidden against a stone wall behind some debris!"

That is a disgrace, the officers should be held responsible but as usual we will be fed the "few bad apples" line and the rot will only get worse.
Reggie | 05.31.06 - 6:41 pm | #

It's leadership and lack of a defined mission.
Hornet | 05.31.06 - 6:32 pm | #

Agreed with this revision.
It's lack of leadership and a pointless mission.
Lorax | 05.31.06 - 6:42 pm | #

Dave, naa, Eddy could lay it on and form whole sentences. But then again June always gave him that look, like she knew he was full of it.
bluesman | 05.31.06 - 6:43 pm | #

I disagree. The mission is well defined.

They just aren't going to admit to what it is in public.
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 6:45 pm | #

bluesman,

You got a point there!
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 6:45 pm | #

Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 6:45 pm | #

Fine, fine

A pointless and/or evil mission as viewed from the perspective of anyone with a shred of human decency.
Lorax | 05.31.06 - 6:47 pm | #

The mission was to find WMDs..Then to fight off insurgents and provide security..Now it's to prevent a civil war...The mission keeps changing as an excuse to stay there..what will the mission be next?
VM | 05.31.06 - 6:52 pm | #

He's more like Lex Luthor, only without the brain.
tireiron chef | 05.31.06 - 6:53 pm | #

Enough is enough, everyone needs to post on their sites, write their reps, newsapapers, etc. in a massive denunciation of this shitty war.

1) I don't know anyone willing to "sacrifice" their pregnant wife, girlfriend, or daughter for this war so this proves that no one wants this war bad enough to stay there.

2) Our "troops" are completely out of control, can't tell friend of foe. Life is messy, sometimes we panic and drive too fast -- in Iraq, that means you could be shot dead. This is not freedom -- we need to call in the UN, dismantle the superbases, and join the world community before it's too late.
Gordon Parker | Homepage | 05.31.06 - 6:55 pm | #

Mr. Moderate,

Yes accidents happen; but that's no excuse to shrug your shoulders and say 'oh well'. The fact is 'accidents' like this are more likely to happen when you have your military spread thin, have troops assigned to areas outside their training and expertise, overworked, underpaid and trigger happy due to the situation they are in.

Accidents can be prevented by making certain none of the above situation ever needs to happen. We failed to do that. We failed the Iraqi's and we failed our troops.
pauloholbytla | 05.31.06 - 6:58 pm | #

VM.You've been had by the MSM dude,sorry.
The mission is to pump oil and wealth into the carlyle group.
bluesman | 05.31.06 - 6:59 pm | #

VM,

The things you've listed, which I agree have been billed as "The Mission", are better described as the rationalizations (a 50 cent word for the crappy reasons we give for doing the things we know are immoral). The Mission has always been "Amass More Power"
Lorax | 05.31.06 - 7:00 pm | #

Your right Bluesman..I stand corrected..
VM | 05.31.06 - 7:01 pm | #

Yeah, this is about monopoly capitalism securing access to the region's oil and forming alliances with other economic superpowers - instead of working for the good of the population as a whole.

Oops, is that what Fascism is?
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 7:09 pm | #

I have always thought that the mission was'nt to take the oil rather than to turn off the spicket to create a shortage..Remember, the oil was suppose to pay for everything..Haliburton has been there over 3 years with no oil coming out..is'nt it more adventagous for big oil to stop the flow of oil?..hence the $3 per gallon fuel..
Just a thought..
VM | 05.31.06 - 7:10 pm | #

My friend David Hackworth died too soon. He could have talked (written) some sense to this new crew of troops and he could have got through to them.
Hornet | 05.31.06 - 7:11 pm | #

I heard that on the way to work this morning and all I could think of was, yeah, what is the pro-fetus, pro-war brigade going to say now? Oh well, it's not a white, middle-class christian, American mom-and-fetus, so they probably don't care.
Ambercat | 05.31.06 - 3:31 pm | #

perfectly put
john | 05.31.06 - 7:12 pm | #

VM, That would also be part of the deal. Control to tap, let the saudis control the price for now. agree I do. This whole thing is a big plot and not what is seen on it's face. My little mind probably can't handle the vastness of it all. They have the better drugs.
bluesman | 05.31.06 - 7:20 pm | #

"In the Middle East and Southwest Asia, our overall objective is to remain the predominant outside power in the region and preserve U.S. and Western access to the region’s oil."

Add to this a trend towards centralized control of government, capital and media and a bellicose impudent foreign policy and you've pretty much got it all in a nutshell.
Dave of the Jungle | 05.31.06 - 7:22 pm | #

Dave, well put, sorry my mind is now elsewhere as it's gettin dark here and I be goin fishin. later children.
bluesman | 05.31.06 - 7:25 pm | #

The story is up on CNN now.(Finally)

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/me...main/ index.html
Lorax | 05.31.06 - 7:26 pm | #

CNN chose to word it this way "when their vehicle drove through a checkpoint "

But what the military spokesperson actually said was a "clearly marked prohibited area near coalition troops at an observation post in Samarra."

An observation post can be a raised vantage point for shooting, whereas a checkpoint is on level ground where people stop. CNN is fabricating.
mother of two | 05.31.06 - 7:44 pm | #

[It's not a problem, it's a crime, noone says the soldier is the criminal...He was the murder weapon. The criminal is in the White House.]

Thank you Lorax for laying the blame EXACTLY where it needs to be. George W. Bush and ALL of his administration, right down to the mail room clerks need to be hung out to dry. Not only for the death he's caused in Iraq, but for the destruction of how many lives who will have to live with the results of this occupation (our soldiers and their families included) AND for the total destruction of the environment in the Middle East which will probably not recover from the depleted uranium for thousands of years.
Ellie | 05.31.06 - 7:46 pm | #

So another "war" where the enemy, the neutrals, and the friendly all look exactly the same. For a historical perspective ask that homeless ex-Nam vet about his night terrors and PTSD in which only booze and drugs can damp down the memories of old women's entrails and little kids' brains.
smalldogK9 | 05.31.06 - 7:53 pm | #

K9

They're not all homeless. I chose to stay married to mine. He's still paying the price and so am I.

And now I worry about my son's next child on the way...he who served in the first Gulf War and came home with all the symptoms of DU exposure, not to mention the recurring nightmares of having his best buddy die in his arms.

If this is all so worth it, I have one question: When are the twins signing up?

Yeah, I thought so.
katsiskats | 05.31.06 - 8:37 pm | #

Well, I think you're all missing the point. They only shot a "female." A female what? A cat? A dog? A camel? Jesus, I hate it when they use that "female" jargon. Everyone here on the board at least refers to "females" as women or people or human beings. Sheesh. Another way to train the troops not to regard them as human beings.
Arsinoe | 05.31.06 - 8:50 pm | #

CNN also didn't report, which the Houston Chronicle did, that the miniscule, one square foot, "warning sign" was only 100 meters from the hospital!

http://www.chron.com/disp/story....ld/ 3918705.html

I mean when you are rushing somebody to the emergency door who is in labor, does one read every little sign, like "no parking" or "no smoking"???
Grant in Houston | 05.31.06 - 9:29 pm | #

A young boy riding a bicycle looks across at a newly-erected warning sign put up Wednesday, May 31, 2006 on a road around 100 metres from the maternity hospital which Nabiha Nisaif Jassim, 35, a pregnant woman and her 57-year-old cousin Saliha Mohammed Hassan, were driving to for Jassim to give birth when they were killed in Samarra, Iraq Tuesday, May 30, 2006. U.S. forces apparently shot to death two Iraqi women, one of them pregnant, when they fired at a vehicle that failed to stop at an observation post in the town, Iraqi officials and relatives said. (AP Photo/Hameed Rasheed)
Anonymous | 05.31.06 - 9:39 pm | #

Thanks, Grant in Houston for posting a picture of the sign erected a day after the shooting.

Here's a slightly larger version.

http://news.yahoo.com/news? tmpl=...05e772a3b07cdfd

That is not a highway checkpoint sign. It is a sign that would be found outside a coalition military base. The blacked-out portion may be the name of the base from which it was yanked. The checkpoint signs look like this:

http://www.afsc.org/iraq/corres_...0206a- small.jpg

Here's another photo of the same sign:

http://hrw.org/campaigns/iraq/sh.../ iraq030705.jpg
cadejo4 | 05.31.06 - 10:29 pm | #

Well, well, CapnMikey...When I was in the US Army in 1967-69...there were soldiers who wanted to kill pregnant women(especially if they had fathered the foetus)...Maybe the all-volunteer(mercenary) force or the Marines aren't allowing any "baby-killers" to join now. lol..Do you suppose that "kill em all. let gawd sort out the bodies"(originally kill them all, for God knows His own) didn't include women and children...Ooh, ooh...maybe we could douche them all with Agent Orange or Depleted Uranium...the gifts that keep on giving! True, Willy Pete is kinda more immediately gratifying, but still...IrishDave BTW where do you figure the expression "babykiller" came from?
irishdave3 | 05.31.06 - 10:39 pm | #

What the hell do people expect to happen.You send boys over there and put guns in there hands and expect them to do the right thing 100% of the time,I say GOOD LUCK!
Masterjoggler | 06.01.06 - 1:28 am | #

This is not like our American troops. They are so tried and scared, they have been over there for too long at a time, They need relief. Fear does strange things to men in war time, when they get to the point where they are to tired to think.When they don't have time to think , they have to so work fast. Car bombings happen so fast, these guys are young,They need to be brought home home to rest up,Stress is getting to all of them.
This is what all the Generals knew would happen if they were not brought home.In a place where you can't tell the enemy from private citizens.The Generals told Bush not so long ago, so who is at fault here?
Suzieq | 06.01.06 - 2:12 am | #

Why don't they enact these insane "shoot first" policies in the United States? Were "holocaust deniers" lie in every suburb?
WE ARE ALL PALESTINIANS.
LGFerRien | 06.01.06 - 2:52 am | #

VM | 05.31.06 - 6:52 pm
Call me a tin-foil hatter. I think they're siphoning off the oil.
Hornet | 06.01.06 - 3:10 am | #

Suzieq | 06.01.06 - 2:12 am
My friend David Hackworth (Google him) had a saying: the most important weapon every United States of America soldier has is his brain. He has to make decisions in a nanosecond. All of his training is about that nanosecond. That training, in the past, made US soldiers superior.
What we are seeing now is drive-by shootings. The DoD just supplies the guns.
Hornet | 06.01.06 - 3:14 am | #

Tragic.

Could be "desensitized" soldiers, but my bet is, just scared and overtired, and the thought actually IS "anyone comes and doesn't stop, we are going to cream them". The aftermath most likely is going to be incredible guilty consciences for the troops involved for the rest of their lives. A hell they are now going to go through that I wouldn't wish on anyone.

But the point is, from what I read, they set up these roadblocks like the police in many states do for DUI checks, etc. Randomly (i.e. not checkpoints INTO buildings, or green zone, or compounds, but just on a road into or out of a town, or in the middle of nowhere) for the same reason. They are stopping folk to check for insurgents. The number of attacks tells me it isn't working...I don't know though, maybe it would be worse with no checkpoints, but there have been so many deaths as a result of miscomunication, and clearly if you want to catch terrorists, you can't advertise the roadblock far in advance, it has to be slightly abrupt or they'd turn around and not risk getting in the US control.

So this is a calculated risk, and the goal is directly AT ODDS with "trying to minimize collateral damage" and "doing EVERYTHING we can to minimize", no...I think if we had a week of the same treatment on any US highway, we'd hear a different story.

Think of it, those random highway stops in the US now checking vehicles, and for DUI, if they started just shooting folk that didn't slow down fast enough?

And then came out with statements blaming the motorists.
Tom joad | 06.01.06 - 3:41 am | #

This is just more of the Family Values that Bu$hco has brought to the Iraqis.....spreading some good old U.S.A. terriorism in order to keep those warprofits rolling in. Jesus would be so proud of the job Bu$h is doing for him, I bet when he drags himself down to the church for those photo ops, Jesus saves all of the pictures and news articles for his heavenly scrap book. And the Bu$h bank accounts are something Jesus can tell George is the proof he is doing a good job.
shannon | 06.01.06 - 5:54 am | #

The problem is that we are there, for whatever reason. Leaving and hoping everything works out doesn't absolve us of the responsibility to clean up the milk we spilled in this whole debacle. So yes, it's screwed up we are there. It'd be even more screw up for us to just high tail it and let the country descend into civil war. That's as irresponsible a policy as Bush getting us there in the first place.
Mr. Moderate | 05.31.06 - 3:36 pm | #

----

this is the biggest bunch of bullshit argument that there EVER was:

if you put a bull in a china shop and it destroys it, do you leave the bull in there, just because he was the one that messed it up? no!

and -- the country already is in a civil war, you dolt!
chiefsjen | 06.01.06 - 10:10 am | #