Cut and Run: We were against it before we were for it.

The WH.
Roman | 06.24.06 - 11:41 pm | #

Ha! Don't fall for it, it's called pandering to the people.

It's mid-terms, lest you forget.

We are not leaving. Ever. Just sayin'.
illegalsmile_420 | 06.24.06 - 11:43 pm | #

Well, they're totalled screwed with this - announcing a withdrawal when they just said that was pandering to terrorists. And the Iraqi govt is reportedly still going to let the guys who killed US soldiers go, so this should be fun
John Aravosis | 06.24.06 - 11:47 pm | #

this was inevitable.

the Army was out of troops.

The guard and reserve were shot by last fall
and this was the last number of troops you
could evolve to iraq. 60,000 is the sustainable
amount.

This means the US now controls even less of Iraq.
mathguy | Homepage | 06.24.06 - 11:48 pm | #

...pitbulls snarling their way through the dems again. Watch how they get away with it.
Walandyo | 06.24.06 - 11:50 pm | #

How much money has changed hands on this?
abarts | 06.24.06 - 11:55 pm | #

I'm getting a headache, just trying to keep my head from spinning in two directions at once, stop this ride I want to get off! They are just trying to keep the sheeple confused, dumb and dumber.
Bab's Brain | 06.24.06 - 11:58 pm | #

I am just waiting to see how the mainstream media spins this on behalf of the administration.
exist2002 | 06.24.06 - 11:59 pm | #

Total bogus ploy to affect the mid terms...expect HUGE PR campaign to crank up shortly about bringing troops home...some even MAY come home, there just won't be too much publicity about those replacements going in to fill the gaps....

Somebody has to staff all those bases..we are NEVER leaving.
bumpkis | 06.24.06 - 11:59 pm | #

UPDATE: Okay, I read the story again. Guess what? They're talking about only withdrawing 28,000 trooops by the end of next year - that would leave 100,000 US troops in Iraq at least into 2008. So, they're trying to have their cake and eat it too. Not really withdraw much of anyone, but at the same time appease the American public with a "withdrawal" announcement just in time for the election.
John Aravosis | 06.24.06 - 11:59 pm | #

Putos y mas putos.
LCM | Homepage | 06.25.06 - 12:04 am | #

It would be interesting to ask your military guy there John, on a percentage basis, how many people in a brigade are actual combatants, and how many are support people??
bumpkis | 06.25.06 - 12:05 am | #

Gotta read this...

Frank Rich is here:

The Road From K Street to Yusufiya
By FRANK RICH
Published: June 25, 2006



http://www.pekingduck.org/ archiv...3831.php#003831
Molly | 06.25.06 - 12:06 am | #

EVERYTHING is propaganda for the Republicans.
Dave of the Jungle | 06.25.06 - 12:06 am | #

Oh gosh, why does the Pentagon want to cut and run now and give the terrorists specific notice as to the dates and numbers of a US troop withdrawl?

Criminals. And a ton of Americans are still conned.
Roman | 06.25.06 - 12:12 am | #

am I stoned again, or are we on candid camera?

or both?
8)
smoke | 06.25.06 - 12:17 am | #

Let's face it, by then we'll need 100,000 troops just to protect the green zone and new embassy. Oh yeah, and the Base that Congress just quietly approved funding for.
mainsailset | 06.25.06 - 12:24 am | #

Just like every neocon I've ever worked with. Gets themselves into a jam, and steals other peoples ideas to get out of it.

Sorry about my uncharacteristic profanity, but I'm that way when I'm righteously angry:

Fucking pigs.
BC | 06.25.06 - 12:24 am | #

John --

guys who killed US soldiers go, so this should be fun

John Aravosis

Yep, the war in Iraq is hilarious! Hope you are enjoying yourself. You and your queen's court, sitting safely in the back of Tryst, laughing your bleeding asses off at the difficulties of the U.S. in Iraq.

There's a word for people like you.

Useless.
Which Is It | 06.25.06 - 12:27 am | #

this is called laying the ground work.. when the troops come home, the republicans will ride the wave of patriotism to the ballot box.. u watch, and the democrat will of course be a traitor.. even if hes a war hero.. its so predictable its sickening
Chris from Maine | Homepage | 06.25.06 - 12:31 am | #

Evidently, in our goverment stupidity runs deep.

We must know that, right? How else can it be explained that a narcissistic sadistic 5 year old runs the 'Pugs so completely? Stupidity has unblumbed depths in 'Pug politics,
just when you might think that the bottom is found you slide lower.
Cole... | Homepage | 06.25.06 - 12:32 am | #

But what would the Keyboard Kingpin want you to do?
John | 06.25.06 - 12:33 am | #

Is the "mission" accomplished, or isn't it?
katsiskats | 06.25.06 - 12:37 am | #

Cut and run. Cut and run. Cut and run.

Hard to spin it otherwise.
No Blood for Hubris | Homepage | 06.25.06 - 12:48 am | #

John --

guys who killed US soldiers go, so this should be fun

John Aravosis

Yep, the war in Iraq is hilarious! Hope you are enjoying yourself. You and your queen's court, sitting safely in the back of Tryst, laughing your bleeding asses off at the difficulties of the U.S. in Iraq.

There's a word for people like you.

Useless.
Which Is It | 06.25.06 - 12:27 am | #

Reading comprehension really isn't your strong suit, is it?
TR | 06.25.06 - 12:50 am | #

I'm just waiting for them to get the acceptable age up to 50 and 400lbs so my fat ass can go over there too.
ckerst | 06.25.06 - 12:52 am | #

Our "bleeding asses"did not start this war, the person who did, is busy doing WMD skits for laughs.
rich | 06.25.06 - 12:53 am | #

Aravosis, I can't decide whether something you snort has warped your brain or you're willing to tell any lie that you think will hurt the Bush Administration.

The Democratic left -- including all of you leftist bloggers who get your talking points from Markos -- does want to cut and run. And in this case I agree with Republicans who have been bashing the Democratic left.

President Bush has said throughout the debate that he will let the military commanders determine the number of troops needed in Iraq.

And, as you know if you'll ever admit the truth, General Casey may very well change his estimates up or down as time passes and we know more about the ability of Iraq's defense forces to battle the terrorists.

So what if some troops remain in Iraq at the Iraq government's request. The Axis Powers surrendered nearly 61 years ago but we still have troops in both Japan and Germany for regional defense purposes. Iraq would be an ideal location to station troops that may someday be needed to defend Israel, Jordan and other middle-eastern allies.
Trace Phelps | 06.25.06 - 12:57 am | #

all the troll can do, to keep from losing it's poor little mind, is completely miss the point of what John wrote.

very impressive the way it overlooks the story completely, and zeros in just like an annoying mosquito on a non-issue.
hmmm... | 06.25.06 - 12:59 am | #

The Deciderizer has Flip-Flopped!
Donnie | 06.25.06 - 1:00 am | #

Bush SHOULD listen to Generals ...there is a bunch of them telling us to GET THE HELL OUT OF IRAQ.
rich | 06.25.06 - 1:04 am | #

Iraq Will Eventually Cost Two Trillion Dollars


http://judicial-inc.biz/ Is_real_...an_end_game.htm

New embassy, ten new bases, means we will be there for the next twenty years


Where Are We Headed?
Israel wants the US to decimate Iraq, so they can come in, install their puppets, and pump the oil to Israel. We will build the pipeline, and supply the security, and troops will be there for at least ten years.

Now Israel wants us to invade Iran, to eliminate all their enemies, but nothing short of a nuclear False Flag on a American city will convince the US populace. Iran will be brutal because they have army, navy, air force, plenty of missiles, and control the Straights of Hormuz.
illegalsmile_420 | 06.25.06 - 1:15 am | #

Trace Phelps: I defy you to make less sense.
TR | 06.25.06 - 1:15 am | #

General Casey is hiding the truth from his troops, which is why they are being killed:

General Casey Blames Iran For IEDs

http://judicial-inc.biz/ Gen_Case...blames_Iran.htm


Is Everyone An Idiot?

It appears the troops are waking up to the fact these bombs and ambushes are a little too sophisticated, and precise, for starving camel jockeys.

IED that are remotely detonated

Insurgents knowing American routes

Ambushes timed before an offensive to create mass retaliation

Death squads roaming Baghdad in broad daylight

General Casey now says that it is 'Iran' behind the ambushes of US troops. The simple truth is you have 'Israelis advisors' floating all over the local command centers. Your security contractors are from firms like Blackwater, CACI, Titan, etc, which are controlled by Zionists.

Does Iran have access to US intelligence, can they walk into US bases, are they accompanying our troops, do they have access to our motor pools? Does Iran control the Iraq Interior Ministry, or the 30,000 contractors running free?
____________________________________

Perhaps, Trace, you might think differently if it was your family member or friend being killed.
illegalsmile_420 | 06.25.06 - 1:19 am | #

Oh, but the question is when will Bu$h'$ policy of "Lie and Die" cease?
Shannon | 06.25.06 - 1:21 am | #

What a flock of nagging little,irritating gnats!!!
Agravating,daring,accusing,disputing every action,or plan,bitching and moaning.Attack every move whether it was what you wanted or not.As long as there is something to complain about.You will ALWAYS create something--NO MATTER WHAT happens!!!
MOST of these "thread starters"are like the little school kid who might have been a cool kid but he always ran around the regular kids,spitting,tripping,saying dumb shit until he got his ass kicked.(i.e.Paul Krugman)
Not a bully but the obnoxious punk who looks for a way to GET his ass kicked out of self-hate and loathing.
Don't you EVER,EVER look at yourself in a quiet moment and feel the truth? EVER??
YorSister | 06.25.06 - 1:22 am | #

I thought that we here on the left had an agreement with Markos that we would follow his orders only after he got addicted to oxycotin.
tireiron chef | 06.25.06 - 1:25 am | #

It's all misinformation. Why even bother trying to make sense of it.
DickBalls | 06.25.06 - 1:27 am | #

You hit the 'ol nail on the head "just in time for the elections" I wonder if America will be fooled? Or,,will they make this idiot a lame duck??????
Floyd | Homepage | 06.25.06 - 1:32 am | #

It is not 'cut and run' when the
Decider decides.

That is just his style, AWOL/Desertion is his form of
honorable service.

Not to mention that bush got an early release from the Air National Guard to go to Harvard business school. ?Like Harvard business school has weekend classes?
Cole... | Homepage | 06.25.06 - 1:32 am | #

So then you are saying we should be staying now?
Aren't you equally hypocritical?
YorSister | 06.25.06 - 1:39 am | #

I'll answer that......
YES,You are.
YorSister | 06.25.06 - 1:40 am | #

tireiron chef | 06.25.06 -
--
Oh! I get it!!!
I don't know anybody who listens to Limbaugh.
YorSister | 06.25.06 - 1:42 am | #

small mention the NYT gives the hypocrisy.......
============================
What the hell?"Sceptics" was putting it too mildly!!If they had been less pandering to the left,they would have properly ID'd you as "those who will criticize no matter which move is made."
OR accordingly,as per your analogy:the NYT might well report that "those who criticize every decision say we shouldn't be breathing oxygen because dead people don't,but at the same time dead people SHOULD breath oxygen"--or some inane crap..........
YorSister | 06.25.06 - 1:57 am | #

Researching some more,I guess
Or more pot and alcohol..........
Tim | 06.25.06 - 1:59 am | #

Cmon don't sound so surprised..do you really think the wh cares about contradicting itself? politics baby, the game is all politics.
rhetoric >> facts.
Mauricio in CA | 06.25.06 - 2:04 am | #

As they contradict so does the left -pissing on every decision,wether we wanted it or not.
Tim | 06.25.06 - 2:07 am | #

Looks like they caught themselves.(Looking in the mirror)
YorSister | 06.25.06 - 2:09 am | #

"So then you are saying we should be staying now?
Aren't you equally hypocritical?
YorSister | 06.25.06 - 1:39 am |"

No. Democrats such as Rep. Murtha have been saying consistently for several weeks that there should be a timetable for redeployment and withdrawal. The administration has been saying that this is "appeasement," "cut and run," and "surrender." Now the administration is changing its tune. Sorry, YorSister, but the hypocrisy is entirely on the Republican side of the aisle on this one.
JDEisenberg | 06.25.06 - 2:20 am | #

Did someone mention annoying gnats? This poster called herself out, I guess.
rich | 06.25.06 - 2:29 am | #

Fuck Iraq. Bring our men & women home!
Matthew | Homepage | 06.25.06 - 2:29 am | #

Well, I NEVER saw that one coming!
brad7777 | 06.25.06 - 2:57 am | #

For every victory, there is a cost. For every defeat, a price no one wants to pay.
Anonymous | 06.25.06 - 3:05 am | #

It's NOT "cut and run" !

It's . . . snip and skip.

BIG DIFFERENCE.

. . . right?
:lol:
Christian Chickenhawks | 06.25.06 - 3:54 am | #

John is wrong once again...

President Bush has ALWAYS said that the U.S. troops would be pulled out as the Iraqi government troops were trained to take over.

Well guess what? The Iraqi government is in place, Iraqi defense forces are coming online and the American troops will be phased out over time.

Big surprise, huh?

Despite what the Liberals say, we are winning the war in Iraq. It's just that simple.
. | 06.25.06 - 4:55 am | #

Murtha listens to the soldiers and the generals, while Rumsfeld, the architect of the Iraq War, doesn't. (re: body armor, troop levels, vehicular armor, troop rotations, etc.)

Murtha over 6 months ago reported what the generals in Iraq wanted, but Rumsfeld and the White House blew off what Murtha reported the generals wanted. In fact, Rumsfeld and right-wing hacks attacked Murtha's report about what the generals wanted.

Now, apparently, what the generals wanted (and that Murtha reported) is finally being implemented. Bush (and Rove) must have told Rumsfeld to finally listen to what the generals wanted in Iraq. Hey, it only took almost four years for Rumsfeld to pull his head out.

However, a whole lot of Republicans have their heads still stuck up their butts, especially those who claim that what is happening over in Iraq is "winning." Tell that to the victims of Bush's preemptive, unnecessary war in Iraq, both the Iraqis and the families of U.S. soldiers.

Oh, I served in the U.S. military during Vietnam. That, too, was a totally unnecessary and costly war...begun by a Democratic Party president.

But what about Afghanistan? After 9/11, our entire attention and resources should have been focused on eliminating the al Qaeda and any Taliban influences in Afghanistan. Hundreds of thousands of our troops should have been in Afghanistan so no Afghani would even think of allowing terrorist training camps again inside Afghanistan. But BushCo, from what I've read, has bungled this, just as much as they've bungled Iraq.

Oh, BTW, if Saddam Hussein and Iraq had been connected at all to the 9/11 attacks, wouldn't our forces have attacked both Iraq and Afghanistan at the same time in late 2001???? This is why I knew BushCo was lying about taking us to war in Iraq. As they continue to lie.

"Winning the war in Iraq"? This could only be a statement made by someone who's making a financial killing off the war. A Republican war profiteer? A Republican defense industry contractor or subcontractor? A Republican private security firm consultant? A Republican oil executive expecting huge dividends from the Iraqi oil fields once all opposition to our occupying presence is crushed?

Why do so many Republicans hate America so much?
The Oracle | 06.25.06 - 6:04 am | #

Other countries that have decided to withdraw their troops from Iraq are now eagerly awaiting their arrival and a chance to move on with their lives while we (U.S.) go on with our white knuckle days of waiting for the dreaded tally of our nation's dead and permanently wounded and disfigured for reasons we may never fully know. And for the Iraqi people-I just hope that they have a course of redress in some international court system-if they could EVER stem the wave of chaos and violence long enough.
Lyn | 06.25.06 - 6:47 am | #

Our thinly spread forces are at risk already. Partial pullout will increase the risks for those left behind. A Little Big Horn-in-the-sand becomes more likely.
bob h | 06.25.06 - 6:56 am | #

The trolls are up early this morning.
Devil's Advocate | 06.25.06 - 7:20 am | #

Several factors going on here.....

1. They're running out of troops. Army/Marines aren't manned for this.
They're calling up Navy units and training them in ground war techniques to fill the vacancies caused by death, wounds, attrition.

2. Recruitment is down. Not too many suicidal teen agers signing up.
They've run out of youngsters, so they're deploying 50 year-olds to do hand-to-hand combat in the streets.

3. This is an ELECTION YEAR and they've lied and deceived and know that they might lose the congress. It's kinda like Bait and Switch.
len | 06.25.06 - 7:50 am | #

Is Yorsister Ann C in disguise?
len | 06.25.06 - 7:54 am | #

1. Bush just adopted the Democrats' withdrawl plan from Iraq.
1. Bush just adopted the Democrats' withdrawl plan from Iraq.

LATHER,RINSE,REPEAT...


I don't want to hear Feinstein or Biden repeating that KKKARLRove Mantra of C& Run.

THIS IS THE NEW MANTRA:
1. Bush just adopted the Democrats' plan.

THIS is what I want to hear the Democrats say.


.

.
HereinDC | 06.25.06 - 7:58 am | #

Nobody is screwed by this announcement. The only way to have this obvious contradiction come to light in the feeble minds of Americans is for the mainstream media to make a big deal of the contradiction....and they won't. And most Democrats won't say a word either and they won't remind anyone of the facts come campaign time either. The Repubs are shifting the campaign agenda to a new topics right now and by the time campaigns go full bore, they will be off talking about gay marriage or something and accusing the Dems of being obsessed with Iraq after the "battle" has been won there.
cromulant | 06.25.06 - 8:01 am | #

The bitter backwash trolls sure have a knack for missing the point and making public asses out of themselves.
Any thinking person who is even moderately familiar with logic is laughing themselves silly at the trolls "thoughts".
What a sad, sorry, cowardly lot they all are.
hmmm... | 06.25.06 - 8:22 am | #

BUSH HAS BEGUN TO WAVE THE WHITE FLAG. ISN'T IT IRONIC? THEY ACCUSE THE DEMS OF CUTTING AND RUNNING AND JUST PASSED A BILL SUPPORTING THE WAR THIS WEEK, AND NOW THEY ARE FLIP FLOPPING AND DOING THE VERY SAME THING THEY STRONGLY CRITICIZED THE DEMS FOR? HYPOCRICY AT ITS FINEST.
THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION DOES NOT SEEM TO KNOW WHAT THE HECK THEY ARE DOING. ATTACK THE DEMS PLAN TODAY, DO THE SAME THING THE DEMS SUGGESTS TOMORROW. OH THOSE BRAINLESS RETHUGLICANS!
Anonymous | 06.25.06 - 8:57 am | #

Didn't the DOD increase the amount of troops at the end of last year for the Iraqi election? Yup. Any troop withdrawl @ 20,000 won't really make a difference. As usual, it's an illusion.
KayInMaine | Homepage | 06.25.06 - 8:59 am | #

KayInMaine | Homepage | 06.25.06 - 8:59 am |

I had forgotten about that.
And I had told myself to remember because I knew that this was going to happen when they did that.

Thanks for the refresher.
hmmm... | 06.25.06 - 9:16 am | #

To my mind this shouldn't be a surprise at all... It's simply politics as usual.

Hell, Bill Clinton adobted nearly every economic plank and welfare reform from the republicans to the same complaints.
John in Door County | 06.25.06 - 9:21 am | #

Do the Moonies own the NYTimes too?
Bia | Homepage | 06.25.06 - 9:30 am | #

UPDATE: Okay, I read the story again. Guess what? They're talking about only withdrawing 28,000 trooops by the end of next year - that would leave 100,000 US troops in Iraq at least into 2008. So, they're trying to have their cake and eat it too. Not really withdraw much of anyone, but at the same time appease the American public with a "withdrawal" announcement just in time for the election.
John Aravosis | 06.24.06 - 11:59 pm | #

-----

Actually -- they are NOT proposing withdrawal -- they are proposing "reduction" -- by cancelling a redployment of troops --

from the msnbc.com article:

Casey intends to begin the reduction of combat forces in Iraq by two brigades, or some 7,000 to 10,000 soldiers, beginning in August and September. This would reduce the total number of U.S. military forces in Iraq to approximately 117,000 to 120,000 troops. The reduction would be accomplished by cancelling the deployments of two brigades set to rotate into Iraq later this summer.


so as you can see -- 'reduction' is NOT the same as withdrawal -- and yet it gives the illusion of it -- very sneaky and disgusting.
chiefsjen | 06.25.06 - 9:42 am | #

Texas Senator John Cornyn calls this "a policy of retreat, a policy of appeasement, a policy of surrender”.

I think Cornyn should demand that hearings be held and that General Casey should be called to testify about why he is directly contradicting the will of the governing Republican majority.

Clearly we cannot have a bunch of unpatriotic, treasonous cowards in charge of our military.
Dennis | 06.25.06 - 9:58 am | #

Remember, Democrats!
Impeaching George W Bush is unDemocratic.

It just is.
Gregory Lyons | 06.25.06 - 10:05 am | #

"Iraq would be an ideal location to station troops that may someday be needed to defend Israel, Jordan and other middle-eastern allies."
Trace Phelps | 06.25.06 - 12:57 am | #

Yeah. THAT's why our troops should be there dying... For "poor little" ISRAEL and the ZionNazis!
It's not enough that we send them 3.5 Billion every year of OUR Taxpayers money so those racists can beat up their neighbors in the name of their eternal "Defense", stockpile THEIR Nukes while we carp about Iran getting ONE.. and little Fascist Wolfie B interviews that NetanYAHOO about Iran and gives him a chance to equivocate about the Family they SLAUGHTERED on the Gaza Beach.. the place they were supposed to GET OUT of ... HOW many months ago now?... without EVER asking him "So...HOW MANY NUKES DOES ISRAEL HAVE, anyway?"

Yeah. Ask AIPAC sometime WHY we're over there! .. or the Religious nutcases eagerly awaiting the Rapeture!

It's time to RE-DEFINE TERRORISM to include that perpetrated on a LARGE SCALE by ROGUE STATES like Israel, and US! It's not how big your stones are,it's HOW you use them!

(bet the Trolls have some interestingly outraged contorted answers HERE!
eh Yorsister, Timmae, Trace? )
Bia | Homepage | 06.25.06 - 10:20 am | #

BRING IT ON!
Bia | Homepage | 06.25.06 - 10:23 am | #

It's not a timetable! It's a "strategic plan for staged withdrawal."

Why do you hate America?

:-)
Litz | Homepage | 06.25.06 - 10:37 am | #

Excuse me, but haven't they just put forth a SCHEDULE? Why are Republicans so ready to cut and run? Is it so they save their sorry, incompetent, greedy asses in November?
Leslie | 06.25.06 - 11:00 am | #

" By June 2007, there would be 30 bases, and by December 2007 there would be only 11."

Those are the PERMANENT bases, right?
Leslie | 06.25.06 - 11:07 am | #

The right wing gets what it wants here -- they get to maintain their permanent presence in Iraq by consolidating smaller forces into the eleven superbases.

This really has nothing to do with politics (molding public opinion) since the right wing doesn't believe in democracy and certainly isn't practicing it; I'm afraid you are all in for a brutal awakening if you think they will relinquish power now that they have it.
Gordon Parker | Homepage | 06.25.06 - 12:05 pm | #

illegalsmile_420 | 06.25.06 - 1:19 am | #

I went to that website - what an incredibly paranoid, anti-semitic, hateful piece of hitler youth you must be if you endorse that website
pauloholbytla | 06.25.06 - 12:26 pm | #

Shut the fuck up
YOur mama | 06.25.06 - 3:44 pm | #

Despite what the Liberals say, we are winning the war in Iraq. It's just that simple
====================
...for those who see the world in simplistic terms.
Steve53 | 06.25.06 - 9:31 pm | #