Scoble,
Thanks for the motivation. You'll probably realize what I'm talking about in the morning.
Your propaganda and cult of personality rantings show me exactly why something like Echo is needed.
Ahh, and your rantings aren't propoganda? Got it! Glad to provide the motivation, though. 
Couple of points - the Echo project isn't about wanting to "control the future of the RSS protocol". RSS and the existing APIs provide real-world experience of what's good and what's not so good in current syndication practice. Everyone I've heard comment on RSS support so far has unreservedly said they will continue to support it, despite Dave still controlling it.
"a simple weblogging syndication format and set of APIs that worked, and were supported by all vendors" - this is exactly the aim of the Echo project.
Just consider : we can be sure that one day in the future something will challenge or supercede RSS. Isn't it better that that something come from the grassroots? Dave's "BigCos" stand a much better chance of a landgrab if the community is divided and the current leading formats and APIs are full of holes. Let's create something we can agree on.
Whine whine whine.
Can we all get over it and just continue developing the projects we have?
Echo's an interesting project and it has some nice points, could have a good feature and it allows many developers an outlet for finding a middle ground on a common log format and interropable communication set; but why even discuss it's lead on RSS?
Dave's not gonna hand it over, he's too big headed and stubborn for that, and frankly I doubt anyone would want to take it over.
Just let things develop and see how it goes from there, all this arguing achieves nothing and just leads to lots of personal insults.
I have no doubt this won't do a damn thing, but I had to say something.
Squable squable. Put all the marbles on a clean table and see what happens to all the marbles.
I don't have a horse in this race (I'm not a coder, nor a bidnethman), I'm just an interested observer. At this point, assuming the Echo folks wind up with an implementable spec (something I entirely expect to happen, given the technical caliber of the people involved), the outcome, to me is clear. The installed base insures that all current weblog and aggregator vendors will continue to support RSS (most likely the 0.91/2.0[x] strain) for the forseeable future. Every developer of note in this field has already pledged support for Echo, and (paranoid conspiracy theories aside), an open format hashed out via a transparent process is going to appeal to a lot of people. I'm going to provide feeds in both formats once this is all settled, and I imagine a lot of pragmatic folks will do the same thing. No big deal.
Something strange: when a community needs an operating system, for example Linux, nobody complains that Torvalds is a control freak. The term used is "benevolent dictator". But when a guy does something *new*, not a reimplementation of a 1960 idea, he's a stupid, stubborn guy.
Hmm, blogging is certainly not a 'new' idea (maybe the name, the distribution technology, or the small cultural phenomenon is, but Dave didn't invent those). And the reason Dave is labeled 'stupid and stubborn' is more to do with his eccentric and hyper-publicly displayed 'social skill' issues.
Let me just state that I for one never said Dave was stupid, he's a very intelligent guy, I fetch his RSS feed and read his posts every day; but he's still a stubborn pig-headed guy at the best of times; I consider it a charm, really.
oldman: Did I say that Dave Winer invented blogging? As a matter of fact I'm aware that the first Web site (http://info.cern.ch) could be labeled a blog. What I had in mind was the man's work on RSS, on XML-RPC, on SOAP, and, more importantly, in showing by example how all of this, combined, could be usefull.
Regarding his social skills, maybe it's not the man, but the medium. All those flame wars happen on a written medium, which is also an instant medium. Previously writing/publishing was a costly activity (money-wize and/or time-wize) so there were a lot of filters (thinking + editors). Now we've nearly reached the point where you write first and think later. But the damn thing is written, so it can hurt our feelings much more, because we can read it over and over, and there is no one to say: "I'm sorry, there's a misunderstanding, I didn't really mean that".
Or maybe it's something else. In my experience I haven't found many people who readily accept being told: "this is stupid, I tried it 20 years ago and it failed, trust me". The usual reaction would be: "the bastard said I was stupid" or "the bastard is trying the authority argument on me, but I don't fall for it. You see he's no expert, I've got the proof that he thinks an XML string is ASCII." or "the poor guy is getting old, it's so sad what age can do to a man". A far less common reaction would be: "well the damn bastard has an irritating argument and he's been doing user oriented software for decades, so maybe I'm wrong and maybe he's right."
If having social skills equates to stating the obvious, i.e. only what we are prepared to hear, I'm not sure they're very usefull.
as
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