Andrew and I have also had a civil disagreement, one that has proven to be quite entertaining (for me, anyway).
Extremely entertaining - and thought-provoking to boot. BTW - I know I'm late in posting a reply to you - I'm hoping to resolve that shortly. Sorry 'bout that.
Thank you for your carefully reasoned analysis of the Nick/Theresa issue. I appreciate the clarity of your thought.
You suggest that there is no real difference between posting a picture of a centerfold model and posting a picture of a pretty female musician, if the only object of the photo is to illustrate the woman's attractiveness. I disagree with you. A centerfold model has posed for her photo in an exclusively sexual context. There is no deeper level to any aspect of her image. In contrast, a musician who is appreciated for her beauty is also still a musician. If we cannot appreciate a musician's beauty, it seems to me we are missing out on a very precious part of life. Is it wrong to appreciate only one aspect of a person at a time?
I don't know, Monger... I've just seen an ad for Gwen Stefani's solo cd and there doesn't seem to be much there other than "look at how pretty and sexy I am" - she may be a great singer, but that's not what's for sale. Does her suddenly larger (and likely surgically assisted) bust size had anything to do with making beautiful music? No - but it will sell more of said cd. Seems to me that the mixing of eye candy with brain candy on The Flea's site is how he wants to express himself - and that's what blogs are about. On the other hand, I think he's limiting his readership with the inclusion of the pics - speaking as one of the relatively few female Red Ensign, I don't visit his site as often as I might if the pics weren't there. He probably has the same thoughts about my incessant posting of cute dog pictures. Sexist? I'm not going there. More than that, I believe there is a much more widespread problem with genuine respect on all levels, irregardless of gender.
The problem I have with such images is that they all lack any deeper meaning and lead too easily to the conclusion that beauty is only about youth and fertility. A woman in such a pose could be anything - surgeon, lawyer, etc - and her image would be indistinguishable from that of any other women, even the most lowly.
You're right to recognize beauty as something important but would add that I think images narrow our focus too much. That's my 2 cents.
I enjoyed reading your post. I'm not a fan of the pics being discussed, although I do believe the comments made about some of them were worse than the actual pics, but I've said that elsewhere.
Your point about jobs is interesting and important to discuss. I don't think that the person's job necessarily is the issue, as much as their training. For example, if someone not trained in communications and social anthropology were allowing what I, personally, would describe as objectionable commentary on their blog, I might not have as much to say about it. [continued in next window due to posting length limit]
However, it is possible that I, personally, might have different expectations of someone who possibly might be trained in the issues that I brought up in this case, the primary one being sexual objectification, not sexism per se. For me, sexual objectification of either gender would be problematic.
However, as I've always maintained, bloggers can do whatever they want on their blogs, but readers also can exercise their right to choose what to read, which is too bad in this case because, excepting the posts in question, I rather like the Flea's site.
Awesome post, Curt. I do not always enjoy the "girlie pics" too. Sometimes they are a tad too tempting for my Christian sensibilities. I don't bark at Nick about it because I have no wish to impose my own sense of morality on him. Maybe he doesn't find them to be much of a temptation. I have a pretty active imagination though and the less temptation I get, the better.
In the end though, it's up to me to regulate how many "girlie pics" I see, not Nick.
And to respond to Theresa's comment, why should someone with Nick's training and expertise not post those pictures? It is not as if there is an attitudinal standard and code of conduct that all social anthropologists must rigidly adhere to. Freedom of thought and action are still, to my knowledge, permitted in the social sciences -- regardless of vocation.
The biggest problem with your posts, Theresa, is not that you objected. It was that you called into question Nick's professional judgment and expertise, based on non-work material that in no way disqualifies him from the job. What precisely makes "girlie pics" acceptable from the common man but not a social anthropologist?
And here I find myself agreeing with Theresa. So, first, thank you Curt.
One of the peculiar things about this situation is that the imagery I post and write about directly relates to my teaching. Today I am lecturing on Judith Butler and bell hooks. The language and vocabulary in which I do so will be appropriate to an undergraduate lecture, however, and not a blog post. The two call for different presentation of the material and much more robust discussion than is afforded by the comments section of a blog. It is my growing suspicion that Theresa and I agree about more than has been apparent in our strained back and forth of this last week.
(Same problem as Theresa.)
It will be obvious to everyone by now that I am quite opinionated and argumentative and believe strongly in the logic of the positions I present. These qualities are an advantage in some aspects of life - including the need to fill five hours of lectures every Tuesday - but they can be unhelpful in the somewhat schizophrenic communication of the blogosphere. I am going to try and track down an on-line version of one of my readings for today. If I can find one I will assign it for Flea-readers and open comments for everybody.
*sniffle* I feel like singing kumbaya. Peace in the sandbox. *sniff, sniff* It just gets me right here, ya know? *full waterworks*
Blessed are the peacemakers.
A soft answer can truly turn away wrath.... Thanks, Curt.
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