Note: If you wouldn't say it to someone's face, don't say it here. Comments deleted on a whim.
For what it's worth:
2000: Oak leads NY 2-1; Oak blows it
2001: Oak leads NY 2-0; Oak blows it
2002: Oak leads Min 2-1; Oak blows it
2003: Oak leads Bos 2-0; Oak blows it
Torii will have the next couple of years, if not the rest of his life, to contemplate his ill-fated and very ill-timed ball hawking...This series is becoming a magnifying glass for some well concealed cracks. I.e., Oakland can play the field with a degree of competence that won't allow for our 'mosquito' or 'pirhanna' antics, Torii is getting older and is now just a 'good' fielder who has still has absolutely no plate discipline, and Gardenhire's sometimes folksy or voodoo-ish approach to managing can leave us hamstrung and impotent at times...
Hunter's diminished physical ability is certainly apparent in that play, but there is also some creedence to the fact that he misjudged the ball from the time it came off the bat and the extra little bit that it tailed away from him is what got him. I keep looking at the play and it appears that off the bat he thought he was going to make a shoestring catch. It is the only thing it my mind that justifies such an awkward dive that he only did at the last second when he saw that his intitial thought was so wrong.
The eerie simalarity to Ray Durham's inside the park homer EXACTLY 4 YEARS AGO is hard to mistake, but that one didn't happen in nearly a crucial a spot (NTM that one skipped past in front of him).
All that being said I am glad the Twins are finally getting out of the dome. Despite all of the 'experts' talking up dome field advantage, the Twins have lost every single playoff game there since the 2002 ALCS opener. That is a string of seven losses. Funny no one mentioned the five losses in a row there before this series began.
The A's fans will not take a series win at this point for granted, and Twins fans should not yet consider the series lost. However, I predict the A's will close the deal on Friday and then we can all think of what could have been.
But not until the end of the game on Friday.
Succinct and to the point. Thanks for the reminder, awsytn. I felt like sticking my head in the oven.
This series is over. It was over when they lost the Santana start, actually. There best hope for this series was Johan winning two starts and lucking out in one game.
What irked me about Hunter's play wasn't that he tried at all, it is that he tried when the ball was still a good 2 feet from his glove. By about two seconds before he dove for the ball, it was very obvious he couldn't get it. One second later, it was obvious he was going to try, and one second after that, it was obvious the play was over.
Hunter has to realize the situation. He lets the ball drop in front of him, no big deal, still two outs wiht only a guy on second and first. Indeed, Reyes got the next guy to ground out. Instead entirely all the wind is take out of our sails and the Twins, with their bad hitting and worse defense, wasted another excellent start.
Sigh.
What bothers me is that sound baseball was not played. We learned in little league that in critical situations, diving for balls in the hopes of making a spectaculr catch in the outfield is not appropriate. So in that regard, I am more irked at Gardenhire's comment that Torii is just being Torii. Is the real reason the Twins are 0-2 is because they haven't played sound baseball in the playoffs under Gardenhire? And if so, why not?
[Aaron after using 661 words and 3152 characters to describe Hunter's defensive mistake]
I have no interest in saying "I told you so" when it comes to Hunter's defense
Hunter has been the biggest disaster with the glove and the bat among a lot of others disasters that are marking Twins fate in this series.
A´s has been the pirahnas!
Hunter has had a couple months to come to grips with the fact that he doesn't have the range he once did, before the injuries. He should be more aware than anyone of each play he couldn't quite make since coming back at the end of July.
The fact that he's lost a few steps in the field is sad. I'm sorry for him, and sad as a fan to feel that Torii's gifts in the field may be gone for good.
Yet, that he's still trying to make an impossibly heroic, shoestring catch at this point is something else--a willful kind of stubborn arrogance. He's refused to adapt to his new physical limitations, despite several instances when his limits were painfully evident. He committed to diving for that ball yesterday, when he should have known better. I think the anger fans feel about that is not only "somewhat understandable," but completely justified.
And after that ill-advised dive, I'm still bothered more by his 3-pitch strikeout that followed.
And after that ill-advised dive, I'm still bothered more by his 3-pitch strikeout that followed.
Agreed. Even if Hunter catches the ball, Twins lose 2-3.
I am interested to see what folks might have to say about Nathan coming into the game and throwing that wild pitch. Tuesday the Crain HR was Gardy's fault for not bringing in the best reliever in the pen. I can only imagine that the wild pitch will be his fault as well.
The Denard Span era began yesterday afternon.
Man, it was not that long ago that everyone was lauding Hunter and the Twins defense. How 1 play, 1 game changes things in the hearts and minds of a team's fans.
Best of luck though in the rest of the series. I'd still like to see the Yankees and Minnesota in the ALCS. It's always more exciting to have what I believe is the two best teams in the conference playoffs going head to head.
A few ideas here:
If somehow we can convince Gardenhire and Torii Hunter to reduce their ego, I think this might have a chance to work next year
A. Move Torii Hunter to left field
B. Sign Carl Crawford to play center field
C. Have Jason Kubel be our everyday DH or find a real DH
D. Have Jason Tyner as Gardenhire's "everyday" 4th outfielder
E. Trade Ford -he's done and sucks
F. Find a way to get rid of White - yes he had a good month of September, but he is quickly reminding me of Juan Castro with Gardenhire always sticking up for him and playing him
G. Keep our infield in-tact, knowing that Castillo more than likely will not finish out the season with us at 2B OR find a way to get a 3rd baseman with some pop
and Let Punto return to his super-sub role as Gardenhire wants him to (but that would probably mean that he would play everywhere taking away too many AB's from Mourneau at 1st, Bartlett at SS, and whoever at 3B. I like Punto but he is just not what a baseball team needs at 3B - go ahead and argue about his defense - YES, I know that- but how many of you were confident he would get the job done with the bat yesterday when it was nut-cutting time - not me!!!)
Look at our lineup
#1- Castillo - PUNCHLESS
#2- Punto - PUNCHLESS
#7- White/Nevin... PUNCHLESS
#8- Tyner - PUNCHLESS
#9- Bartlett - PUNCHLESS
I just think our light hitting top/end of the lineup caught up with us a little bit over this series -
will the Twins upgrade, probably not, but oh well, here's to looking forward to 2009 when we supposedly get to spend a lot more money on players - YIPEE
And after that ill-advised dive, I'm still bothered more by his 3-pitch strikeout that followed.
Are you serious? Moss couldn't disagree more. The A's pitcher was absolutely brilliant in his pitching approach and in his execution. He made 6 batters look foolish, Hunter wasn't the only one. The game should have still been 2-2 there and everything is different if he doesn't give away two runs.
I felt like the game and series slipped away. Gardy says, "that's the way we play the game". It just feels so empty right now.
And Punto batting in the 9th kind of made me scratch my head. I know that Nevin only gives us a small advantage for a single at-bat, but seems like you gotta pinch hit for Punto for a guy that can hit a homer...
Maybe it's shock.
The main problem I have with Hunter diving for that ball is the situation of the game. If it was a tied game in the 9th inning with the winning run on 2nd base, I could at least understand why he dove. However, there was no need to make a spectacular play. The potential advantages of catching that ball are so much less than the risk of what happens when the catch is missed.
But I'm not giving up hope, if Radke can somehow "will" a victory tomorrow without his arm falling off, and Santana comes through with a win on Saturday, I like the Twins chances in a "winner take all" Game 5 back at the dome, even if they have to face Zito.
It's becoming absolutely clear to me that Hunter has been getting by on talent alone. The veteran who realizes that he's no longer the same player pulls up and plays that ball on a hop. And what's more, he realizes what balls he can get to and what balls he can't.
Hunter is living in fantasy land when it comes to his own belief in his game. He still thinks, and said so yesterday, that he's the best centerfielder in the game. That's ludicrous, of course, but he believes it.
We had another center fielder in these parts who won a pile of gold gloves. His range deteriorated, too. But, he never looked foolish out there and he gracefully accepted a move to right field when he could no longer play in center. He knew and understood his limitations as he got older and more rotund. I guess that's an unfair comparison, though, because Hunter is no Kirby Puckett.
As mentioned above, Oakland is certainly capable of coughing up the series, so let's not start praying over the grave just yet. In a season filled with the improbable (71-33, division won 35 min after the close of the regular season, MLB batting champ catcher, etc) this team absolutely deserves our collective benefit of the doubt.
No grandiose predictions, but it would not surprise me if I get to use those "Home Game 3" tickets on sunday.
[Aaron after using 661 words and 3152 characters to describe Hunter's defensive mistake]
I have no interest in saying "I told you so" when it comes to Hunter's defense
The two newspapers in town used a whole lot more space than that "describing Hunter's defensive mistake." I guess under your logic they were saying "I told you so" even louder than Gleeman. Or maybe it just deserved that many words, being the biggest play of the season and all.
B. Sign Carl Crawford to play center field
I live in Florida, so this caught my attention. You can't "sign Carl Crawford" any more than the Devil Rays could "sign Justin Morneau." He's not a free agent and he's one of the best young players in baseball.
Hunters brain hasn't caught up with his body. Happens to hundreds of athletes every year.
Hunter has always wanted to be the hero, evidenced by his diving miscue and his desire to make up for it with his wild swings at balls in the dirt the following at bat. It is now Mauer and Morneau's team and that is a tough pill to swallow.
Pitchers that throw few strikes thrive with the Twins philosophy of hitting.
Twins have won three in a row several times this year. It isn't over by any means. Oakland can crack, especially if they lose the next game.
Go Twins!
I live in Florida, so this caught my attention. You can't "sign Carl Crawford" any more than the Devil Rays could "sign Justin Morneau." He's not a free agent and he's one of the best young players in baseball.
Exactly. I didn't want to type this glad you did.
The Rays have been dangling Crawford I've been hearing and looking for some solid SP. This seems a bit crazy to me, but a lot of things that happen in Tampa are crazy.
I wouldn't be that surprised if Torii ended up somewhere else next season. But I have no idea what interest Minnesota has in him for the future, or what he is asking for in terms of salary.
I always thought he may be a bit overrated, but nonetheless a guy you wouldn't mind having on your team.
I'm hurting for you guys - damn these 5 game series. I know this is a Luddite perspective, but the thing I hate the most about the wild card is this; a really cool Twins season that baseball fans should remember for a long time, but probably won't if the Twins bow out now.
There is a ray of hope, Ellis is injured, so there will be a downgrade in defense by the A's, they would have to use D'angelo Jimenez.
I only saw the first 4 innings, then i had to left for work, and follow a bit of it through gamecast, i can't understand why they didn't usea pinch hitter for Punto in the 9th, also didn't he tried twice to slide at first, maybe they should play Luis today, just to make a statement to Punto, we'll bench you until you stop your sliding.
One more thing if the game was tied at 2 in the 9th, there is a chance they wouldn't brought Nathan to pitch, and maybe the game would have been tied when the Twins came to bat.
In the midst of all the Hunter debate, I note that Twins hitters have been 0-for-14 with RISP and (if we discount Cuddy's dome-fluke triple) have scored all their runs on solo HRs. This seems far more problematic than focusing on one play, however ill-advised.
The stunning thing is that even with all these foul-ups, we have played two games where it is very easy to imagine us winning. In other words, the A's are not exactly dominating this series - this is painful (it feels like we are beating ourselves), but also should give some sort of hope.
And tell me that the paper is lying to me that Garza will start potential game 4...
Does a sweep in this series put Gardenhire's job in jeopardy? I would think not, but he wouldn't be the first manager canned due to poor results of a short series.
Just curious, does anyone know how many of the previous collapses occurred after they won the first two on the road?
Complain about the pitching and fielding all you want, but scoring 4 runs in two home games is just as big an issue.
I think the Torii mis-queue just brings out our disapointment in the team's fielding/hitting/execution. How could we NOT turn that double-play to end the inning ??
We've scene much better and should expect better in the next game.
Compliments to the starting pitchers -- good stuff.
Hunter is getting Old.
Everybody who is getting old does not want to admit it.
It was terrible devastating play,
But again, if Bartlett turns that double play, Tori doesn't have his anti-one shinning moment.
But again, if Bartlett turns that double play, Tori doesn't have his anti-one shinning moment.
I heard this on the radio last night too, but it's complete nonsense. How could Bartlett have gotten the ball to 2B any quicker when Castillo was still 10 feet from the bag? Did you actually watch the replay or are you just assigning blame because the DP wasn't turned? He had to underhand the ball to 2B to give Castillo time to actually get there.
It's astounding to me that people are now trying to blame Bartlett for "allowing" Hunter to make his massive screw-up, although I guess I should have expected it given the way Bartlett and Hunter have been treated in the past.
Anyone blaming Hunter for yesterday's loss is flat wrong. Even if that hadn't happened, the Twins would have lost.
You will win virutually ZERO playoff games scoring two runs a game.
You can blame his bat if you want. But he's not the only one sucking at the plate at critical times.
In the midst of all the Hunter debate, I note that Twins hitters have been 0-for-14 with RISP
Again, I couldn't agree more. Looking at trends as opposed to single events is more useful in situations like these. Hunter does or doesn't make the "play". Crain does or doesn't give up the home run. Each a single event with a specific probability of occuring. We have been unlucky in both situations. The hitting trend is the real reason we have lost these first two games.
I love Torii Hunter, but he simply isn't a clutch player. I think yesterday has less to do with Hunter's diminished skills and more to do with his desire to be Kirby- and his inability to perform at that level in key moments.
On the big stage Kirby had the team climb on his back and he took over.
With Torii, the bigger the moment the tighter his two hands surround his throat. In the past he has been unwatchable in the playoffs, especially against the Yankees, in clutch at bats. Every opponent knows that all you have to do is throw it in the dirt or a foot off the plate and you'll get a swinging strike three.
It isn't simply a coincidence that the misplay yesterday marked the four year anniversary of another inside the park homer. And this wasn't about diminished skills, but understanding that we didn't need a great catch, but keeping the ball in front of you and holding the lead runner to second base.
And then how predictable his next at bat was after the bungled play.
It would be great to resign Torii for the next few years, but for the love of god not for big time money. The big money has to go to someone who will show up for the playoffs and get us to the next level.
Speaking of old, I saw that the T-Pups signed Vin Baker--35 yr old, overweight, substance abuse issues, Vin Baker. Oh boy, let me rush out to get my tickets. Boy the Wolves are gonna suck this year.
If you guys think Oakland's history of coughing up playoff series somehow improves the Twins' chances of winning the next three games, you are fooling yourselves. While it's certainly possible, the probability is both small and independent of what Oakland did in the playoffs in 2000.
Using the log5 equation (with each team’s regular season win%) and giving the home team a 4% bonus in win probability, here's what I get for the probability that the Twins will win each game and all three:
Game 3: 48%
Game 4: 48%
Game 5: 56%
--------------
All 3: 13%
Now, that completely ignores pitching match ups, so it's a rough estimation at best but it certainly gets you in the ballpark. The Twins are about 8 to 1 dogs to advance to the ALCS.
Despite my avid hatred of Gardy, I can't really lay either game on his hands right now. This one comes down to one problem. The offense is offensive. Is it over? Definitely not, but I don't have much hope.
The scariest thing is that, even after the fact, Hunter still insists he KNEW he had it all the way. He seems to be saying that the ball mysteriously changed direction after he dove for it. He even said something like: "I can't explain it to you if you've never played out there. Other center fielders know what I'm talking about." Is he delusional?
It seems odd that Hunter claims that the ball tailed away from him at the end of the play. Generally, when a lefty is hitting the ball will "tail" toward left-center field than toward right-center field as Hunter claims it did.
Looking at the replays, it looks like the ball did, in fact, tail towards Hunter, rather than away from him. I'm not sure if he's just making excuses for his misplay, or if he's just convinced himself that the ball did something unexpected and that's why he didn't make the play.
Just curious, does anyone know how many of the previous collapses occurred after they won the first two on the road?
Per Elias:
The Athletics would seem to be in the driver's seat, considering that in major-league history all but one of the 19 previous teams that won the first two games of a best-of-five postseason series on the road went on to win the series. But there won't be any premature celebrating in Oakland. The only team to lose a best-of-five series under those circumstances was the A's, in the 2001 ALDS vs. New York.
Oakland has lost the last nine games in which it had an opportunity to clinch a postseason series (2000-03, the longest such streak in major-league history), after winning its nine previous potential series clinchers (1973-90, also a postseason record).
I want to start off by saying I'm not a huge Torii Hunter fan. I constantly am criticizing him for his only hitting homeruns when we have 3 or higher point leads and his aptitude at hitting into double plays.
That being said, I was at the game yesterday and witnessed one of the most ridiculous plays I've ever seen in my life. Though critized for it much recently, Torii is known for giving it his all everytime he's out there (at least defensively). Yesterday I not only witnessed that terrible play from the bird's eye view of the first row of the upper-deck, but I also witnessed something I've never felt before at a Twins game.
During the next half inning the 4, 5, 6 hitters were up, meaning that Torii would actually get a chance to redeem himself. After what might have been two of the quickest at-bats in MLB history (hyperbole? maybe), Torii approached the plate. Upon his approach a metrodome crowd decided to rain boo's down upon him. Though there were mixed cheers, I find it tough to boo a player on your team during what a playoff game.
I realize the magnitude of his error, but you still need to support the guy if you want to have a chance.
As a life-long Twins fan I was definitely disappointed yesterday (in the fans and in the team). Hopefully they can bounce back on Friday and knock Haren around the park.
Inside-the-park homer, my ass. Anyone who knows a thing about the game knows it was a single and three base error. This was not a domeball like that over Milton Bradley's head Tuesday;it was a fielding error, plain and simple. This is the second time in a month (the first also being aginst the A's on September 12th)in which the official scorer has let Torii off the hook for his poor judgment. Thanks, Aaron, for telling it like it is.
So wait, the fact that the 2001 A's blew a series lead is somehow going to help the Twins beat them in 2006? I think the only players left from that entire roster are Zito and Chavez. Might as well bring up 1987 or 1991 for the Twins.
There have been a lot of "it's not fair to blame Torii" posts, so let's just put it this way. The Twins have made a grab-bag of blunders thus far in the series. Just about everyone has done their part to mess things up, whether we're talking about wild pitches, poor clutch hitting, botched bunts, or questionable calls to the BP. But right now, at this moment, Torii's ill-advised error looms largest over all others. His contribution to the overall putridity was the most spectacular, and the most significant given the circumstances. Of course it's not ALL his fault, but his flop is, unfortunately, the most glaring.
That said, should he have been booed? Absolutely not. I have always felt that Minnesota fans are WAY too quick to turn on their own. And they are also not the most learned students of the game -- booing whenever there is a X-2 count and the umpire doesn't call a strike, and such. That is the ONE thing I enjoy about watching a Yankees game. The NY fans may be insufferable and smug a**holes, but they know their sh*t. Were fans emotionally upset yesterday? Yes -- but don't just do the first thing that comes to mind and start booing. Think about the person involved, think about all the years he has played for MN, all of the great plays he has given us, and all the sacrafices he has made by playing hurt. He's one of us, and he deserved better, even if he did make a boneheaded decision.
While I agree that New York fans are much more knowlegeable than twins fans, New York fans turn on their own and boo WAY more than Minnesota fans.
How many times as Alex Rodriguez (the reigning MVP) been booed this year in the bronx?
If you think Hunter wouldn't have been booed if he did that playing for the Yankees you don't know Yankees fans.
I have always felt that Minnesota fans are WAY too quick to turn on their own
This is happening all over. "WE" are not any better nor any worse than "THEY" are.
I agree, it bugs me to no end how quickly people will 'boo' a player, but it's a national "what have you done for me lately trend".
I agree that fans the league over boo their own on a whim. But to use A-Rod as an example in NY is foolhardy. A-Rod is hardly one of NY's own. He's a Steinbrenner hired gun. He hasn't endeared himself to NY fans, and I doubt he ever will. I doubt NY fans would EVER boo Jeter, Posada, Bernie, or Rivera. NY fans recognize the difference.
as disappointed as i am in the loss yesterday (and I am, extremely...i had a chance to go to the game but chose to see The Strokes in Kansas City on Sunday night...i may regret that decision for a long, long time, despite the loss) I am optimistic still. I'm not even thinking about Saturday or Sunday, just Friday, one game at a time. Hopefully the team can do this too. The pressure is squarely on the shoulders of the A's now, as they had the luxury of not having it the last two games. Hopefully Radke gives an inspring 7-inning performance (5 inning is more likely, but wouldnt it be a great story) and Torii goes 2-4 with a HR and 3 RBI to get the Twins right back in it. I will let no one here tell me this is wishful thinking, because there is a reason its a five game series, its not over after two!!!
In addition...as welcome as a new stadium will be and as needed as it is, I think all Twins fans will always pine for the dome during the playoffs. With the exception of Yankee Stadium (which i could see the argument but disagree with) or MAYBE Fenway, is there a more electric playoff atmosphere??
The Twins have beaten longer odds than 13% this year. In June they had les than a 1% chance of even making the playoffs.
My main beef with Torii is that he really tries too hard in big situations and ends up choking. I am saying this from a choker's perspective. So I know what I am talking about.
I can live with the physical mistake but the mental mistake is what bothers me. And didn't we all know that Torii would strikeout on 3 pitches after that.
It seems to me since Gardy took over as the manager that the Twins really don't do the "little things" right anymore.
I have said this many times before so don't think I am saying it now just because of too poorly played games.
I think TK did a much better job of preparing his teams for the season and especially for the playoffs.
It is really difficult to both hold your bat and wrap your hands around your neck simultaneoulsy.
With all of that being said The Twins still have hope. Take it 1 day at a time.
Fire Gardy? Let Hunter go? You know, Mauer called a low curveball, Nathan threw a wild pitch, and Mauer didn't block it...should we trade them for some better clutch wild pitch blocker?
Or perhaps is it ridiculous to judge a player's worth on one play...?
Yeah, Hunter's play was dumb. Watch the replay though...the ball knuckles down at the last possible second, if not for that Torii's got a glove on it at least. But he has to know that's a possibility and he has to pull up.
Hunter did everything physically possible to catch that ball...requiring a jump and sustained speed. It's an effort that probably only Sizemore, Granderson, and Beltran could have had a chance of matching.
Anyone who says he's coming up short physically haven't been watching lately. Did you see the straight steal of third off of Ivan Rodriguez? How about the diving catches in the deepest part of the gap? He might be hurting, but his footspeed is at or close to 100% right now.
The problem right now is that the Twins are having bad fortune...Loaiza and Zito didn't strike out many batters, the balls are just didn't fall for hits. Mauer's slicing liner with a runner on third and two outs...caught. Morneau's gapper...reigned in. Cuddyer, Hunter, and Morneau each had a warning track shot against Zito. Two games is a ridiculously small sample, and it's very possible to go 0 for 14 with RISP in a small sample from bad luck alone.
There's still a chance, and it's somewhere between 10 and 20 percent. Remember 25-33? Yeah, there was a .3% chance of making the playoffs then...probably a .1% chance of making the ALCS. Even in this team's worst moment, they brought the tying run to the plate in the 9th inning.
Let's hope the bad luck turns around and the Twins can knock off these pesky A's.
I doubt NY fans would EVER boo Jeter, Posada, Bernie, or Rivera. NY fans recognize the difference.
I would have agreed with you, except Rivera was booed either last year or the year before when he started the season very poorly. This is why I give no creedence to the idea that the Yanks have better or more knowledgeable fans.
Fair enough.
Using the Twins' 25-33 start and improbable turnaround doesn't translate as very good logic for winning three straight elimination games. The Twins had 100 games to right the ship, not to mention making serious changes to their roster. They now have two days to figure things out, not quite the same.
Re: Torii's decision. He had a quote mentioning how Kotsay took a funny swing and put English on the ball. It seems to me if you are unsure what the ball is going to do or what crazy path it might take, all the more reason to play it safe.
I hate just about any argument that says a cities fans are more knowledgeable than the other city. Because they are trained to yell at the appropriate time makes them smarter?
Judging from the boos Hunter heard and the slew of e-mails and comments I received, many Twins fans are angry at him.
For my part, I'm not angry. I'm just really disappointed about the whole thing. This was something that we knew could happen going into the series. That it did happen is rather unfortunate, but the possibility was always there.
I'd certainly love to see Torii do something to redeem himself tomorrow. And Saturday. And Sunday. But I guess I'll have to wait and see along with everyone else.
Re: Torii's decision. He had a quote mentioning how Kotsay took a funny swing and put English on the ball. It seems to me if you are unsure what the ball is going to do or what crazy path it might take, all the more reason to play it safe.
I think it's pretty clear that he meant that he didn't realize that there was English on the ball until after the play. He didn't see Kotsay take a weird swing and then decide to go after it anyway. In retrospect he realized that there was english on the ball and that is why he missed it.
Of course it was a bad decision, but baseball is a game of split-second decisions and Hunter happened to make the wrong one. I realize that this fits into a larger pattern which is the problem that Aaron is pointing out. But jeez, give the guy a break. I agree with Aaron that there is more cause sad than angry. He is human and going through a decline. Why should he have to come to terms with aging and physical decline any quicker than anyone else? He's not a baseball player because of his emotional fortitude and ability to cope with changing life circumstances. That he has to face as a regular human being.
I was at the friday night regular season game in which A-rod hit 2 homers off fat-silva to help them crush us that evening.
A-ROD received two curtain calls after each home run that night.
He ALSO received a barrage of heavy boos when he grounded into a DP in the middle innings.
So to recap:
Home run = curtain call
Double Play = serious booing
Yeah, NY fans are really smart....please.
Sorry, only the first paragraph should have been italicized.
I think the talk about Hunter, and about how the ITP-HR shows he's not the player he once was, misses the real point in two ways:
1. As pointed out by wengler, this isn't the first time this has happened - Hunter misplayed a sinking liner in the 2002 ALDS that led to an ITP-HR, and at that time Hunter was at the peak of his defensive reputation, having famously robbed Barry Bonds of a homer in the 2002 All-Star Game. That doesn't mean Hunter hasn't lost a step this year, or that his lost step might have contributed to the misplay - simply that Hunter, even at his best, might still not have made that play, and we know that because it's happened before. It's a nice piece of rhetoric to equate the play with Hunter's defensive decline, but it's not necessarily true.
2. The bigger problem, as I see it, wasn't so much that Hunter misplayed the ball - for James M. I'll point out that after the game, Mark Kotsay said he'd have played the ball exactly the same way Hunter did, so no, he's not delusional - but that he simply stayed down on the turf after the misplay and waited for Cuddyer to run to the deepest part of the park to back the play up. Maybe that's what your supposed to do once a ball's gotten by you - let the backup take care of it so that you don't end up getting in each other's way - but I'm sure the thing that left the bad taste in folks' mouths wasn't Hunter's misplay, but watching him lying on the carpet while the Twins lead slipped away.
And for David - given that Matt Garza isn't even on the playoff roster for this series (Gardy and Co. decided to go with Glen Perkins as a second lefty out of the bullpen instead), I'd say there's zero chance that Garza starts Game 4, if there is a Game 4.
As pointed out by wengler, this isn't the first time this has happened - Hunter misplayed a sinking liner in the 2002 ALDS that led to an ITP-HR, and at that time Hunter was at the peak of his defensive reputation, having famously robbed Barry Bonds of a homer in the 2002 All-Star Game. That doesn't mean Hunter hasn't lost a step this year, or that his lost step might have contributed to the misplay - simply that Hunter, even at his best, might still not have made that play, and we know that because it's happened before. It's a nice piece of rhetoric to equate the play with Hunter's defensive decline, but it's not necessarily true.
Except Hunter didn't misplay the ball in 2002 because he couldn't get there, he misplayed it because he let it get past him once he did. The two plays, while resulting in the same outcome, were very different. Yesterday's showed a lack of range, while 2002's version didn't.
Calling it rhetoric is, of course, a nice bit of rhetoric in itself.
The fact is that Hunter has flopped after a half-dozen balls like that over the past 50 games or so. If you want to think him screwing up four years ago means his screwing up now doesn't mean he's lost multiple steps, that's fine. But I don't see how it adds up.
He's a shell of his former self and I think that's all too apparent to anyone who's even remotely willing to admit it, with yesterday's screw up being the latest and biggest example.
Are you serious? Moss couldn't disagree more. The A's pitcher was absolutely brilliant in his pitching approach and in his execution. He made 6 batters look foolish, Hunter wasn't the only one. The game should have still been 2-2 there and everything is different if he doesn't give away two runs.
I'm serious, Moss. I didn't say the RESULTS bothered me more, mind you. And Hunter looked absolutely foolish, going fishing for an outside breaking ball that was setup by the previous outside pitch.
The problem with this game isn't that Torii gave away 2 runs; the problem is that we only scored 2 runs. With only 2 of our at bats.
One thing that I have not seen pointed out much re: the Koysay's ITPHR is that the ball really tailed away from Hunter. In seeing the replay(like 900 times) I am not sure he would have fielded the ball had he not dove. He still clearly misplayed the ball but it seems to me it was a tougher play than it looked and I dont think it had that much to do with Hunter's obvious decline as a fielder.
Obviously, the series is in effect over. I can see the onslaught of comments now that will be posted when the Twins are eliminated... about Gardy's failures.....about the teams weaknesses that were only revealed in the post season....about all the changes that need to be made, etc...many of the points will be valid....
That being said...I commented on the day this team clinched the WC that my expectations ended there...I have been a Twins fan since I knew what baseball was (1968 or so) and have never had as much fun following a team as this one.....it was a great great summer. It's unfortunate that they have ended up playing some of their worst ball of the year now....but that happens....I can't really find it in my heart to critisize the players....coaches....even the Manager....it's disappointing but these guys gave me...as a fan...way more than my money's worth a long time ago...
As I pointed out Ad Nauseum during the summer, if this team falls short of the WS IMO the bulk of the blame falls at TR's feet. He did nothing to help this club, even after it was apparent they were going to make a run. Even before Liranio's injury,it was clear that the starting pitching was thin and management's only response was to bring up prospects. They hit the 3rd fewest HRs in MLB and no effort was made to find a power guy. OK Ok...I am not going to retype what I typed ten times throughout the summer...you get my point.....TR deserves the accolates that are constantly showered on him.....but...like an outfielder making an ill advised dive.....he misplayed his chance for a WS in 2006(wow...AG...does that qualify as a "hack"line????)
If the Twins fail to win this series, it will absolutely, without a doubt, conclusively prove that:
Their bats got cold at the wrong time. Nothing more, nothing less.
The blame will be shared between Abner Doubleday for designing a game in which any team could win on a given day, and the MLB commissioners who decided to make the first round a 5 game series.
It will not be the fault of Gardy, Torii, or TR.
Damn you Doubleday, DAMN YOU!
This "it's no one's fault, everyone is OK!" attitude is certainly an interesting way to spin getting swept out of the playoffs after winning 96 games.
I guess it matches the same fans getting pissed when someone says a player has a lost a step or going nuts when someone says the manager makes bad decisions during games. La la la, everything is wonderful! How dare anyone suggest otherwise! I hope the Twins enjoy playing golf next week.
I have found the solution though: Next year have the manager and GM build a team which is incapable of losing 2 conescutive games at home. That should pretty much clear up our problem. Obviously TR and Gardy can't do this, so let's clean house and bring in fresh meat? Any suggestions on who we could get?
I have found the solution though: Next year have the manager and GM build a team which is incapable of losing 2 conescutive games at home. That should pretty much clear up our problem. Obviously TR and Gardy can't do this, so let's clean house and bring in fresh meat? Any suggestions on who we could get?
So the only two options are to have no one accept responsibility for poor play or to fire everyone? Please. People have played poorly, mistakes have been made, decisions have been questionable. Why is it so bad to point those things out? Why is it better to act like none of it hurt the team?
No. My solution is to leave emotion out of it, and realize they caught a tough break over these 2 games. Morneau has whacked about every ball as hard as one can hit it, but they just kept going right at the OF. Thomas' 1st game 1 HR was about the shortest possible HR you can hit in the dome - 2 feet shorter and it's a different series. Yet you would be clearing out the management team that put together a team which came back from 12 games out to win the division. I'm sorry if I don't think our 2 game losing streak is a sign of complete failure from upper management.
No. My solution is to leave emotion out of it, and realize they caught a tough break over these 2 games.
Yeah, they caught a tough break. They also did plenty to screw things up on their own in both games. There's a lot of truth to making your own luck in spots like this and the Twins failed on that over and over.
Yet you would be clearing out the management team that put together a team which came back from 12 games out to win the division. I'm sorry if I don't think our 2 game losing streak is a sign of complete failure from upper management.
I didn't say anything about clearing out any management or it being all their fault. But nice try. Keep getting upset at me rather than the team that pissed away their whole season.
Inside-the-park homer, my ass. Anyone who knows a thing about the game knows it was a single and three base error.
I think people probably didn't argue this because they realized you might be the one who doesn't know baseball. Sorry.
While I agree that New York fans are much more knowlegeable than twins fans, New York fans turn on their own and boo WAY more than Minnesota fans.
We do it at the stadium, you do it by posting comments on ag.com.
We do it at the stadium, you do it by posting comments on ag.com.
Yeah, and the 10,000 or so Yankees websites that are filled with people ripping ARod for being unclutch 365 days a year. Keep trying to tell everyone how classy Yankees fans are. You're really selling it well by jamming it down our throats here every week.
I'm certainly not upset with you, I just think your opinions are misguided. And why exactly should I be "pissed" at the Twins, who, I might add, aren't yet eliminated? I certainly think Torii screwed up, and the decision to bring in Crain was wrong. I don't think the Twins owe me anything other than perhaps their best efforts, which I think I got.
Could you please explain what "making your own luck" means, and what someone could have done differently to "make some luck"? If you say it's like a pitcher "knowing how to get a win", I'll know exactly what's going on here.
Could you please explain what "making your own luck" means, and what someone could have done differently to "make some luck"? If you say it's like a pitcher "knowing how to get a win", I'll know exactly what's going on here.
OK. How about executing a bunt properly when asked? How about not sliding head first into first base when it's a stupid play? How about now diving after a ball and giving up two runs when playing it on a hop is the right play? How about bringing in your best reliever in the most important spots? How about not getting thrown out on the bases?
Is that enough? That's what I mean by making your own luck and that's what I mean by the Twins doing plenty to lose this series regardless of how the A's played or how much "bad luck" they got.
You can examine and confront those issues, or you can just say "Oh well, everyone played well, the management was great, and we just got unlucky."
Not one of those things has much to do with luck. They're all a part of fundamental baseball. I don't recall anyone messing up in a bunting situation or getting thrown out on the bases in these 2 games, and I've already agreed with you regarding Torii's dive and bringing in Crain.
You can examine and confront those issues, or you can just say "Oh well, everyone played well, the management was great, and we just got unlucky."
Everyone didn't play well, management (by Gardy) was questionable, and we definetly got unlucky. But I'm not going to draw any conclusions from these 2 games. I'm certainly not going to say that any single decision (or even a combination of poor decisions) are the reason we are down 0-2.
well the equipment managers decision to use Nerf bats definitely has hindered the offense.
Yeah, and the 10,000 or so Yankees websites that are filled with people ripping ARod for being unclutch 365 days a year. Keep trying to tell everyone how classy Yankees fans are. You're really selling it well by jamming it down our throats here every week.
Never did I once say Yankee fans were classy, quite the contrary actually. I've even said Twins fans knew the game better a few days ago. But if you need reading lessons I can probably find some for you.
I do think on the whole Yankee fans are considerably less classy than most other organization's fans. But if you want to get upset about facts that is fine.
Yankee fans booing arod at the park is silly and counter-productive. It may even be worse than blasting a player that was loved a week ago on a website that players do not read. But all in the same, they both were loved and the tide turns quickly in Minneapolis and in the Bronx.
That inside the park home run may not have been an error in the technical sense, but it does show just how silly the error stat is.
And to those of you who said Hunter isn't to blame because we would have lost 3-2 anyway, I say this: had Hunter made the catch, or let Kotsay get on and still not give up a run (Reyes gets a grouder/popup/FC/K/whatever) then the game is completely different. The 9th inning wouldn't have happened like it did.
That is all.
Not one of those things has much to do with luck. They're all a part of fundamental baseball.
Yes, and not playing fundamental baseball is a big part of why the Twins' "bad luck" has cost them the game. In reality, they created that "bad luck" by repeatedly scewing up.
I don't recall anyone messing up in a bunting situation or getting thrown out on the bases in these 2 games
You don't? Did you watch the first game? Castillo screwed up a crucial bunt attempt in the late innings and was thrown out trying to steal second base in the first inning. If you didn't see that sort of stuff, then I guess it's no wonder you want to blame the losses most on "bad luck."
I'm certainly not going to say that any single decision (or even a combination of poor decisions) are the reason we are down 0-2.
Again, why are the options either blaming everything on one single thing or not placing any blame at all? It's weird that you seem unable to find a middle ground on any of this.
Never did I once say Yankee fans were classy, quite the contrary actually.
I've been reading these comments every day for the past month and you spend most of your time trying to defend the Yankees and their fans from every little criticism someone here throws their way.
Hell, you've managed to turn the comments into a Yankees discussion a half-dozen times because of it, including today.
But if you need reading lessons I can probably find some for you.
Yeah, I must be an idiot who can't read. Good one. Keep perpetuating that Yankees-fan stereotype.
where is the faith in here, last i checked you needed 3 wins to win the alds, oakland only has 2. the twins are still the better baseball team in this series and if anyone is going to come out of a 0-2 hole it will be them. morneau is killing the ball, we face back to back righties in games 3 and 4, get some guys on base ahead of him and let him bring this series back to minnesota by himself. i think it will do the twins some good to get out of minneapolis where everywhere they go in the past week people are patting them on the back and congradulating them. if radke can muscle out a win, then santana can go get his revenge on saturday. its about that time where we start to catch some breaks and oakland doesnt have everything fall in place perfectly for them. have some faith that this series will add to what has been one of the most if not the most magical season in twins history.
Yeah, I must be an idiot who can't read.
Fine, if you would like to classify yourself that way.
Hell, you've managed to turn the comments into a Yankees discussion a half-dozen times because of it, including today.
And I've never started one of those conversations about the Yankees. We don't have to talk about them if you don't want... but I'm clarifying points others have made about them prior.
Relax, your team might win a game in October. They have at least a 50/50 shot right? They either will or they won't.
That's fine though, I'll leave this board. Have a good offseason Saturday.
My theory:
The dome is getting its revenge. After faithfully supplying dome-field advantage for two world series championships, the team started complaining that the dome was a bad place to play. The dome-field advantage slowly disappeared.
Now, in a year in which the team and the legislators conspired to cram a new stadium down the voter/taxpayers' throats (good end, inappropriate means) the stadium realized just how much it was hated by the team, how desperate the team was to escape it, and how much all that it provided for the team over the past 25 years was taken for granted.
The result: after the twins fought back from the depths of the standing to win dome-field advantage, the dome has gotten its revenge. This year, there was definitely no dome field advantage in the playoffs.
The twins may come back to tie the series up, but beware: they still have to win one at the Metrodome.
Relax, your team might win a game in October. They have at least a 50/50 shot right? They either will or they won't. That's fine though, I'll leave this board. Have a good offseason Saturday.
It's funny how a guy can act like he's being a classy Yankees fan for weeks, but when push comes to shove he's just as big a prick as the rest of them. Go boo one of the best players in the league every time he doesn't hit a homer and then celebrate when your $200 million teams wins. Must be very rewarding.
Deryck, I for one enjoy your comments on the site and wouldnt let someone posting anonymously discourage you from doing so in the future.
Ha! What's the difference between "posting anonymously" and typing two letters into the "name" part of the comment form? Doing the latter makes my comments more worthwhile how, exactly?
It's tough to put a season's end on the (broken) shoulders of Brad Radke, but if he pitches the game of his life wouldn't that be a great way to remember the season, win or lose the series?
0-2 is quite a hole to dig out of, but in 87 and 91 I recall we won 2 games in a row to win the WS when many were counting the Twins out coming home down 3-2.
I for one am still excited. Great season regardless of the outcome in the playoffs.
How could Bartlett have gotten the ball to 2B any quicker when Castillo was still 10 feet from the bag? Did you actually watch the replay or are you just assigning blame because the DP wasn't turned? He had to underhand the ball to 2B to give Castillo time to actually get there.
Ok, I was at the game yesterday and also taped the game. So, when I came home I watched this double play a few times. I grew up playing second base, and I can't imagine a better double play ball than Kendall hit. It was a sharp two hopper right at Bartlett. Castillo was a little slow getting there, but not slow enough to warrant an underhand lob from 15 feet away. Any time you are that far away you should pivot and through the ball overhand. Castillo was coming across the bag at Bartlett, and it is possible to give him the ball before he actually get s there. This would allow him to get the ball out of his glove sooner, and have a chance to avoid the runner trying to take him out. Since Bartlett lobbed the ball over he had less time for the exchange, and was crushed by the runner.
If there is any ball that a professional shortstop should turn two on, it's that one.
Sure Torii made a mistake on the ball after that, but I am more mad at him for his at-bat in the bottom of the sixth right after Cuddy and Morneau went back to back. The A's brought in Calero and Hunter swung at the first pitch. What the heck. They just brought this guy in, don't you think he should take at least one or two pitches to see if the guy can even through strikes. He's cold out of the pen. Rondell did the same thing. Two immediate outs within like 1 minutes time. If anything can quite the crowd. It'a that.
Deryck, good call on kotsay's hit being a bona fide inside-the-park HR. By the way, the war in Iraq's going well too.
Anonymous I don't think it was Deryck that started all the NYY talk, if I remember right it was East Side, or something like that. I have agreed with most of what you have said on here today but your yelling at Deryck is a little childish.
I am surprised that I haven't seen anyone bring up Castillos 3 strikeouts, all looking, yet. Talk about not even trying. That to me was the biggest problem with Game 2. I can understand a couple mistakes, even really big ones, here and there. But standing at the plate and watching strikes go by is unexceptable.
Also, for those saying that Hunter could have made up for the ITP-HR with his next at bat, does anyone feel like Bartlett made up for his "bad" double play with at least giving us a chance in the 9th?
Strangely, I've always wondered what some of Aaron's thoughts on various things football were, especially players. Favre's been a favorite of mine since being at the game when Majkowski went down and the Favre era began. I think it's telling that being mentioned in the same example as Jordan shows some level of respect.
Favre's awesome. He's still awesome, I think, but it's clear to me he suffers from some measure of delusion in the way he plays s by not admitting to himself that there's things he can't do the same old way anymore.
I'm no great expert in this, of course, but the biggest thing I think Favre has problems dealing with is the concept that the game is comparitively faster against him now. IE, his nuerological functions are less quick and his reads and decision making process is naturally slower than when he was in his late 20s. This seems to be supported by at least one example that occured this passed week.
okay, end of off-topicness.
I heard a report that Santana is pretty sore and is not expected to get the start Saturday in game 4. Anyone hear anything about this?
I just hope that when the twins come back and win this series that everyone bashing them right now comes back and apologizes for giving up on the twinkies.
I just hope that when the twins come back and win this series that everyone bashing them right now comes back and apologizes for giving up on the twinkies.
When they lose the series, will you apologize for doing the exact opposite? How silly.
You can be a Twins fan, have optimsim and still bash the Twins.
they are not playing well defensively. they are not running the bases well and they are not hitting the ball well.
So why can't we bash the Twins? I love 'em but play some ball I can be proud of. I would rather see them lose 10-5 then see them make mental errors and choke when they bat.
I still think they can win the series. I have hope but I am still angry at the way they have played.
Go Twins, hopefully the pressure is off of them now.
You don't? Did you watch the first game? Castillo screwed up a crucial bunt attempt in the late innings and was thrown out trying to steal second base in the first inning. If you didn't see that sort of stuff, then I guess it's no wonder you want to blame the losses most on "bad luck."
I forgot about the steal. Ill-advised, especially on 2-2. And even the best bunter in the world won't get it down everytime, especially when Barry Zito is trying very hard not to let you do so.
Maybe a better way to put this is, I didn't see any flaws in the playoffs that I haven't know about for the last 80 games. Hunter and Castillo have both lost a step. Punto dives head first. Gardy tends to save Nathan too much. And the team has a tendancy to go into lineup-wide offensive slumps.
It's a team wide failure that they're down 0-2. I don't see that as a "blame" issue. Why can't you accept that maybe luck had more than a little to do with it?
it's disappointing but these guys gave me...as a fan...way more than my money's worth a long time ago...
I'll echo okietwin. Playoffs are subject to the vagaries of baseball, and emotions, including mine, run wild. But over the last 4 months of a 6-month season, this team gave me more smiles and whoops than I deserved.
If they lose tomorrow, Saturday, or Sunday, it'll hurt, but I'm going to try and focus on the big picture. This is a team that you could easily argue was the best in baseball this year. That doesn't happen too often, so you want to savor it when it does.
Twins aren't gonna get swept. They just won't.
So if they win game 4, which will be a damn challenge with Silva on the mound, they'll advance to the ALCS.
See, it's not so bad...
Plus, Torii's miscue yesterday has to be weighing heavy on him...heavy enough that he should now be willing to re-work a multi-year extension, at a cheaper price. Disappointing as yesterday's game was, things are still just fine. Heck, yesterday might turn out to be a good thing.
Ok, that's about as much positivity (read: delusional optimism) as I can muster up for one day.
Would people please stop talking about that f*ing bunt attempt by Castillo? It was a stupid play to begin with. Castillo should have been swinging away from the get go. Why bunt with no outs and Bartlett on second? So he can score standing up instead of sliding on a single? Punto was up next and is not exactly a likely candidate to hit a sac fly, which is the biggest advantage of having a runner at 3rd with less than two outs. There's no way Oakland would concede the run on a ground ball in a tight playoff game, so Bartlett's not going to score on a ground ball even if he's at third. And there's a miniscule chance of a wild pitch. So why give up an out from a .300 hitter just for the very slight chance that being at 3rd instead of 2nd makes a difference? It makes no sense.
The combined probability of a sac fly from Punto or a wild pitch that would score Bartlett is certainly less than the probability of Castillo getting an RBI hit, which is somewhere around 25%, or a little less than his batting average given a good starting pitcher and the fact that an infield single probably wouldn't score Bartlett. Also note that Bartlett being fast means he is unlikely to fail to score on a single.
In my opinion, this was one of those dumbass automatic moves by Gardy that he does without thinking. If anything, people should be annoyed that Gardy tried to take the at bat out of Castillo's hands rather than being mad at Castillo for not getting the bunt down.
As defined by the rules which govern baseball, that had to be called an inside the park homerun. A fielder can't be given an error if he doesn't make it to the ball. Anybody who knows how to score a baseball game would score that homerun.
Does that make sense? Is it right? I don't really agree with it, but that's the way it's scored.
Re: Hunter
I suggest everyone who was able to record the game go back and look at a frame by frame replay of the play from the camera behind home plate. I must admit I thought Torii was BS'ing when he said in interviews that the ball cut at the end. I figured he was making an excuse. But if you look at the replay it is quite remarkable how much it moved starting when it was about 15 feet or so off the ground. It's not really surprising as Kotsay's swing and the trajectory of the ball make it highly likely the ball was knuckling a little bit.
Doesn't anyone wonder why Hunter had to stick his arm out sideways when he dove instead of straight forward? That's not a bad jump or "losing a step," that's a ball with some wicked movement on it. In fact, if that ball continues tracking straight, the replay looks as though it wouldn't even be a diving catch, but rather a shoestring catch with maybe a dive/roll after the ball is caught at most. To that end, I can see why Hunter went at it aggressively--because if it didn't have that sudden and strange movement at the end, it was an easily catchable ball and pulling up short and letting it bounce would have been ridiculous. Then we'd all be sitting here wondering what he was thinking letting it fall in front of him.
I believe that Hunter, like everyone else in the league, will gradually lose some range over time, but that his problems this year are primarily due to his foot injury. I think that's had a far bigger impact than whatever the aging process has done in the last 365 days. Therefore, I think saying Hunter has "lost a step," is a misrepresentation, because that implies that his range somehow became significantly and irreparably impaired during the course of the last year, and that's very unlikely.
The truth is likely that he's had a marginal erosion of range combined with a much larger negative impact from his foot injury, which will heal fully by next season. Sorry for the long post, but I would hate for some fans on here to be persuaded that Hunter is falling off a cliff defensively. Is he on the downside of his career defensively? Absolutely. But he will be one of the best defensive center fielders in the game for a few more years unless his foot problems become chronic.
Let's stop hyping ourselves over Radke's start, Santana's potential 2nd start, etc. No matter what pitcher we toss out there in games 3 - 5, if they have an ERA over 2.00, we're hosed unless the "offense" remembers how to get busy.
General, who's talking about it? I see it mentioned ONCE...
Are you listening to the radio again? Didn't we have a talk about this last time this happened??
KFAN will rot your brain. ;)
It was mentioned a number of times yesterday and the day before, and something about seeing it again today, even just once, set me off. It was such a meaningless play in the context of a game where the 2-6 hitters went 1 for 18.
And I live in NYC, well out of reach of KFAN, which seems to be a good thing. On the other hand, I have to deal with Yankee fans, who are just terrible.
Congrats Okie, you took the words right out of my mouth. Also,excellent perspective thegeneral on the bunt that never was. Haven't heard anyone else make that argument yet and it makes the most sense to me so far.
Go Twins!
As for some of the blow-hards here, go get a day job. ;-)
thegeneral13, great post about Hunter. I wish Aaron also would look at the replay and then make a comment about your comment.
Even to a baseball newbie like myself, your argument about Hunter diving sideways compared to forward convinced me that Hunter's (lack of) speed was not the main reason for the failing catch.
If the Twins are going to have any chance in this series, it is all going to hinge on the offense coming around. If, and it's a huge "if" we can score around 4 runs a game over the next 3, I like or chances of moving on.
To be honest, the A's offense has been nearly as terrible as the Twins', save for a little more luck. From what I have seen from the A's (and I mean all year not just this series), I don't think they are going to put up too many runs on the Twins, unless the garbage version of Silva shows up.
It just stings to be behind 0-2 in this series because the games have been so winnable and because the games could have turned in our favor on a single play, or with a little luck. I just hope our luck turns before it's too late.
Am I the only one who saw the "show me the money!" thought bubble above Hunter in those pictures?
Dude wants to get paid.
I am sure that was the first thought on hunters mind. jackbeep.
he wasnt trying to make a play to help win a ballgame.
his wanting to get paid is why he risked injury for diving for a 'routine' blooper to center.
In the playoffs it's all about scoring runs, getting runners on and then the one big hit. You have to create an identity for yourself all over again as a team that is dynamic and grabbing the bull by the horns. It's a magical thing, the Don Baylor homer or the Herbie slam. Fortune smiles on you all of a sudden.
The Twins are 0 for fortune.
Quite a lot of baseball is putting pressure on the other team. Oakland has done a great job of that, getting out of the gate first, keeping the pressure on the Twins. You don't play as well when you are tight and struggling. You try to do too much, you hesitate. And all the small plays, Kendall beating Castillo's relay, a missed bunt, hard-hit balls right at people--they've all gone to Oakland.
On the Hunter thing, it sure looked like a terrible decision. In Little League that would be a bad play. Hunter says that "he couldn't live with himself" if he doesn't try to catch it. "And neither could the fans." Well, that's a level of putting yourself and your own reputation ahead of what's best for the team. The team could have lived with him pulling up and getting the ball back to the infield--but he couldn't. It was, in fact, above all, a selfish thing to do, IMHO.
In a game which is an ever cascading wheel of chance, when you get more breaks than is your rightful share, even in a small sample size like the playoffs, that makes you a champion. And, right now, I wish the Twins were more lucky than good. Though they haven't been very good in this series either.
If they don't advance, my one large disappointment will be in not getting to watch them play the Yanks, in prime time, in the Stadium. That's the ultimate in baseball and if any team ever deserved it, this year's Twins are it.
Sure is a lot of dwelling on luck around here.
How about a little credit for Oakland's pitching?
Anonymous I don't think it was Deryck that started all the NYY talk, if I remember right it was East Side, or something like that. I have agreed with most of what you have said on here today but your yelling at Deryck is a little childish.
Deryck, I for one enjoy your comments on the site and wouldnt let someone posting anonymously discourage you from doing so in the future.
Thank you.
Deryck, good call on kotsay's hit being a bona fide inside-the-park HR. By the way, the war in Iraq's going well too.
I'm sorry I did not mean to be the focus of today or any day's comment section. I also did not want this place to be Yankee vs. Twins or whatever, it just became like that for two reasons:
1. The Yankees are both the most watched and the most hated organization in MLB. I was simply trying to debate what I viewed as incorrect about the team I know most about. If I was a Reds fan and we were talking about Harang I would have done the same in the same manner. I don't mean for that to take over the comment section, but this is a place to talk baseball AND the Twins and I just thought I had legitimate points. (Some not so legitimate I will agree).
2. There are many correct and incorrect views of the Yankee franchise and that always sparks for some kind of heated debate. Especially when held on the medium of an opposing rival/opponent.