mustapha, ask your friend who betrayed whom first?
Nasrallah was our hero too when he kicked the israelis out of the south. However, in the aftermath of the harriri killing he had a chance to save the country by making us all stand together against syrian domination. However he chose to stand with the syrian government(mainly because he needs the syrian conduit for his weapons rather than anything else) even though he knew that 99% of the sunnis blamed the syrians and their stooges for killing harriri.
For that one moment in time he had the chance to be the reason for all of the Lebanese to stand together as a counrty. He would have been my ultimate hero. But he chose to ignore all for his own benefit.
If somebody killed nasrallah and the sunnis stood by and thanked the people that 99% of the shiites thought killed hium, how would your friend feel?
Very true Mostafa, very well said. The problem is that the opposition thinks that all what is driving March 14th people is money. They still can't see that it was a VERY LOUD SHOUT to STOP playing with our future. And NO, it's not just the Sunnies that are making this movement, Christians are the core of it, they have spent years asking and demanding for what March 14th is all about.
The problem I think is the traditional Arab mentality. We always accpet the fact that the whole world wants nothing but to invade us and stole land. This idea is always successful and finds people who are more than welling to listen to and accepet it. And this is exactly what HA is trying to do. Tey are selling the people what they used and love to hear through out their lives, that USA and Israel are coming to invade us, and that we should fight back, and everyone who is NOT with us is simply an American follower who is against us.
The Sunnies in Liban finally understood what this is all about, or maybe they are just fed up with the huge dept they have to pay for Arab and Islamic nationalism, and together with the Cristians, they are now demanding that we should think about Liban first, a strong independent Liban, then start thinking and worrying about Arab issues.....
I had the same "does he think we're stupid" reaction and I am not Sunni. 
Maybe March 14 should try to frame the Hariri court in terms of resistance against Syrian occupation? Could that resonate better with Shia who strongly identify themselves with their resistance against Israeli occupation?
I think that inter-sectarian dialogues have been blocked completely during the Syrian hegemony between 1992 and 2004, and the only reason Rafiq al Hariri was assassinated was because he was forcefully promoting that same dialogue and opening the eyes of the Lebanese to the true behaviour of the Syrian regime and its allies in Lebanon.
As conscious Lebanese, I think that our mission is to promote full awareness in Lebanon, in order to reach a common understanding of the true enemies of Lebanon if we were to prevent division and civil wars among ourselves
True enemies of Lebanon. Who are you referring to ? There are 2 enemies of Lebanon that I know of Syria and Iran. These are the only two countries which want to colonize Lebanon. France, USA and Israel would like nothing better than a strong successful Lebanon.
joumblatt today in his statement
1- said there is an attempt to overthrow the governement (gosh we didnt know about it ...)
2-opened the door for a deal: national government with the condition to accept the international tribunal
btw joumblatt changing camps or having 2 contradicting ideas in the same speech and nasrallah ...
anyway
now to come back on the post:
i think it s deeper, the majority of the shia feel threatened by the regional risk of a secterian war as it happens in iraq or as al qaida attempted in lebanon, remember the rockets in dec 2006 against israel trying to blame hezbollah or the video tapes distributed in the palestinians camps in 2003 appealing to kill the shia and the lasted statement
for this reason, i think that disarming the palestinian camps would be a prerequisite to the hezbollah's disarmement
Isn't it great how firmly propaganda grips some people?
This kind of total failure of imagination and understanding is always so depressing.
I agree with Norton. Everyone needs some political imagination - and not the language of division and separation, which leads away from national cohesion. Lebanon's politics could not mature while Syria intervened, and now Nasrallah is trying to set an agenda which will lead Lebanon into darkness again. The Lebanese have to stand back and see what lies ahead with the call for street protests, and try very, very quickly to grow up. Without sitting up and saying no to violence in all its forms (and that starts with the language of the political leaders) Lebanon will see an exodus of all that is good. Perhaps that is what Nasrallah really wants in the end.
Btw Mustapha,
Some people didn't like the .. what shall I call it ... "hypocrisy" of letting Syria do all the bad things you talk about without seeing ONE single sunny or DRUZE demonstration against it in 15 years and then when Hariri was killed suddenly the Sunnies and Jumblaties realized the Syrians were bad and started judging other people's behavior.
I guess the way I see it, the attitude of Shia (leaders and population) today is the exact same attitude of Sunni/druze Leaders and population two or three years ago.
Not complaining about anything at all, just noticing that lots of the who cannot understand shia's attitude towards Syria, had the same attitude just a few years back even with all the atrocities committed by Syria.
And as always, I may be completely wrong.
Mustapha I need you to clarify something to me,
Are you (the average smart March 14er) really scared that if the opposition gets one third plus one of the government they will block the hariri tribunal?
Another way to ask it is you beleive that the FPM's ministers will all vote to block the Hariri tribunal?
If yes, don't you think you are looking at the FPM the way your shia friend are looking at March 14th?
If not then what is the problem with letting the opposition have a third-plus-one?
Thanks salaf for your answer.
Pat,
Let me think, considering that the leader of the FPM calls the Tribunal a "Big Lie", Insults Saniora left and right (like calling him a dirt rug), continuously defends the #1 suspect lahhoud and recently insinuated that "we're not sure that syria killed hariri", not to mention that he's mentally unstable, my clear answer is Yes, I honestly am convinced that his ministers will block the bill.
Here is why Hezbollah does everything it does: lebanonnewindustry.blogspot.com
.
Thanks for your response Mustapha I guess the Lebanese do live on different planets after all.
I suppose it is possible the whole world is conspiring to get your tribunal.
Oh well, I guess we might see about that, if they ever get in the government and get to vote on it. Then I'll come back to remind, you about this, either I'll turn out to be naive, or you'll turn out to be paranoid
Hopefully on the third time you'll finally see your mistake.
Mustapha,
What was the reaction of the Sunnites vis a vis these attrocities? More cooperation with the Syrians! WHo other then Karameh, Mikati and Hariri cooperated with the Syrians? the more they went after you guys the more you cooperated. The sunnites, druze were enjoying the Syrian hunt for tayyar activists and did nothing to defend them. All of sudden, I have to pay attention to the "Sunntie sentiment" against the Syrians? How hypocrite is that? Where was this sentiment when Aoun was fighting the Syrians? why they did not align with him against the Syrians? and after all the sacrifice, you dare to call Aoun a lunatic? who is the lunatic here, the one who suffered with the Syrians and did nothing or the one who fought them till they are out,... By the way, what was Hariri senior thinking? that he can deal with the Syrian at his conveninence and whenever he wants he can stop? how shortsighted is that? didn't he realize that he signed his death row when he extended to Lahoud? without the vote of his block in the parliament,Lahoud's extension would not have happened. and then you accuse Aoun of defending Lahoud! you can't have selective memory my friend. If the Lebanese Sunnites are really looking to build a functuional country, they have to start sharing the governance of the country with their counterpart; otherwise they are doing the same mistake as the Maronite did 55 years ago, only this time it won't take 55 years to change the situation. And as you put it "For the love of Lebanon, don't make that mistake.. "
Is your friend serious or what?
Where was she in the past 25 years?
How can anyone support Syria? whether it is the lebanese themselves, or even the syrians. Damn, with such a regime, I don't envy the syrians.
going back to your conversation, Syrians, throughout the years, have killed lebanese freedom fighters, smuggled money and weapons, used lebanon as a card on the international political scene. Even until now, they don't think we can exist by ourselves and never started official bilateral relationships, like any 2 independent countries.
Nasralla, on many different occasions, thanked el assad. For what? for all the death and destruction?
Where does your friend get her information from?
for people who say that not supporting hizballa is being sectarian and not acknowledging the shiaa's, I say, you better get some decent leaders and stop acting as victims.
To be honest with everyone and myself, I need to say that we all need to acknowledge the fact that we've all been victimised for one reason or another:
- FPM, they were fighting for the good cause (Liberty, Sovereignity, Independence) and feel worthy of carrying the flag. Think 7 August
- Shias (IN GENERAL), they were occupied by Israelis, Palestinians and Lebanese warlords and were only dignified during Hizbullah's rule
- Sunnis (also IN GENERAL), they were always mislabeled and humiliated by Syria and its allies (by the way, Mustapaha, your stories are just the tip of the iceberg as lots of northern Lebanese can testify)and took pride in Rafiq Hariri's efforts to promote their identity and are ABSOLUTELY furious some people find it easy to ignore their case (Think what might have happened if Nasrallah, god forbids, was the one who was assassinated with all that followed since...)
- Lebanese Forces and other Christians, they were also, at some point in time, forced into inconvenient alliances and have served the righteous retribution for it
I really think that everyone has paid his due and even more; whether 15 years abroad, 11 years underground or forever underground.
This post can go a lot longer, so don't point out a smart finger at me and say "what about flen?"
Mustapha, I hope you are still reading this thread, I just caught Aoun on NBN, being asked about the tribunal on two occasions.
the first was some people from march 14th are not sure of your position he answered:
I am saying I am with the tribunal right now without any possibility of miss interpretation, when we talked about it in the hiwar sessions I said I have no reservations about it, if they still cannot believe me I cannot say anything more, in all cases eventually the bill will get to the parliament and the FPM deputies will vote for it and approve it I don't see what more I can say or do to convince them.
And then a second question about the talks of "mouquayada" of accepting the tribunal in return of "7oukoumet we7deh watanyeh" he said such a proposition makes sense to him because he is FOR the tribunal EVEN IF THEY DON'T ACCEPT A NATIONAL UNITY GOVERNMENT. Hw will still be for it and will still vote to pass it regardless because he believes in it.
Of course you can still accuse him of being a liar, but I am getting the feeling that you (mustapha and the march 14th people in general) have been acting too paranoid, for your own sake (and for Lebanon's sake)
I am sure you don't see it this way, and I might be wrong, but eventually -in a couple of weeks- we'll see how the FPM people will vote.
Sorry for the typo, he said the proposition "makes no sense" and not "make sense" because he is for the tribunal regardless ...
Dear
I trust what did you say, but answer my question please. Why Rafiq Al Harir was not against Syria in most of his history, while he probably know their bad on Lebanon why he only be against them after extension for president Emil Lahod? This mean that he is with them on all their bad?
Anonymous, are you forgetting that being anti-Syrian in a Syrian-controlled country can be extremely risky and unproductive? Didn't you notice what happened when he went out on a limb and became openly anti-Syrian? Oh that's right, he was KILLED. People don't want to die, so they're careful, and choose their fights.
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