Great posting! I have been watching Al-Jazeera for the last 4 months and it looks like it just promotes creating differences when it adds its "personal" comments to the facts "news"!
Hizb-Iran miscalculated AGAIN! Nassrallah will go on TV AGAIN to say AGAIN: "if I knew that that will be their reaction, I wouldn't have done that
Sinora is more than just a symbol, he is everything for the free, independent, sovergin Lebanon!
1- I love the way you downplay the "Christian Leader" with a Handful of Christians... Rest assured that this description is far from the truth except in the Future media. Most of his followers are Christians but also every Lebanese that beleives in bringing his/her country to modernization (less corruption, more production, less sectarianism, more state laws)
2- Omar Karameh a Sunnite was brought down twice on the streets. The difference is that Omar Karameh never played it as sectarian issue; where as the Future gang are. Look at yourself Mustapha: all of your writings are about not sacking the Sunnites. Your article is the testimony by itself that "Sectarianism" is what Future movement is banking on, just like they did in the election in the North. Of course I doubt you will understand that theory, everybody now is blind with sectarianism. (I would have been blind too except that, fortunately, I am an atheist)
what a smelly post. it reeks of ta2ifiyeh wa kurh juma3i.
To Abu Nour and Ibn Bint Jbeil,
Mustapha is just stating the facts and the reality on the ground. OUR WHOLE DAMN SYSTEM IS SECTARIAN!!! WE ALLOCATE SEATS ACCORDING TO SECTS!!! So give him and all of us a break. Its not like hes going around Lebanon instigating divisions among the sects.
For your information AOUN's victory in MOUNT LEBANON was a result of sectarian campaigning too. I seem to recall him portraying himself as the guarantor of Christian rights. And the fallacy that he was "the only Christian that wasn't being controlled by Hariri and the Sunnis".
And btw Karami was brought down in parliament in 2005. Or actually he resigned before he was going to be brought down.
Hehehe,
so this means that the sunnis withdrew from the PM pool the same way the Shias withdrew from the government to pressure the other side..
funny if you think of it
just a small remark
the christians now are having a "charnière role". without their support the governement is just having trouble and if they are against the governement falls. This is a new reality due to the changes that occured with the syrian withdraw last year.
If we are reading and listening to foreign medias and especially israeli medias, we notice that according to their analyses the governement already fall due to the coalition btw the christian CPL and the shia, leading to a new national pact btw christians and shia as a result of the failure of the previous pact btw sunnits and christian with the civil war, btw druze and christians with the wars of then 19 century etc...
Nowadays the christians are playing but not for long i guess for demographic reasons this "charnière role".
I m not secterian but our system as long we are not changing it is a secterian system based on communitaristic equilibrium and here the sunnit are put aside, their christians allies are not so important, they are noisy for the lebanese forces but they are not represented politically speaking by powerfull representants inside the governement or in the parlement which is their main problem to face Aoun. The druze on their side are negligable demographically speaking
Another remark is coming from an israeli analyst who said what i was saying 1 year ago: the hezbollah is not homogeneous, the hezbollah has different wings, a pro syrian wing, a pro iranian wing, a pro shia-iraqi wing and a pro lebanese wing. With the syrian withdraw from lebanon, it is the pro lebanese wing that is gaining an advantage, where ll it be leading to is the good question
to add one thing
today the syrian army withdraw lead to the implementation of new political and equilibrium equation.
Many politicians including the 14 of march and many newspapers analysists are making the mistake to take the old equations whereas we are in an intermediate period.
We cannot think like before 1975, we cannot think like during the syrian occupation, we have a new set. This implementation of the new set is leading us as normal to tensions (reflected by the governemental question right now) between the parameters that are less important and the parameters that gained weight.
I dont beleive that we will have a civil war as long as we are mature enough to recognise theses new set of political equations.
Mustapha,
Your post is an excellent one and is very much true concerning Most of the Northern Lebanese, who know the hidden facts associated with the post-taef Syrian behaviour in the Northern part of Lebanon; we hate Hizbullah's policies because they are sympathising with the Syrians and are blaming the Sunnis to blindly follow Hariri , sort of like brain-washed...
Newsflash (especially to unaware Shiites out there, which I know are many, based on personal experience): We hate the Syrians because they were brutal, unmerciful, cold-blooded killers, and there are so many people willing to give you statements; kidnapping, killing, torturing, deporting, disappearing...
They oppressed us for so long and we were constantly trying to liberate from their rule, and March 14 was our chance to express that.
At the same time, the Syrians were smart enough to give Hizbullah a Carte Blanche in South Lebanon to control and develop and resist and educate; now they're reaping the benefits today.
Hizbullah owes its success in the Shia strongholds to integrity, belief in a higher good and the help of Syria and Iran through unlimited supplies of money and weapons; whether we like it or not, they already established their goodwill among Shiaas. That is why they were surprised that the Sunnis were furious when Nasrallah handed the liberation gun to Rustom Ghazali and took a smiling picture with him.
We weren't allowed to develop our city Tripoli (2nd largest lebanese city) the way we wanted and it's all Omar Karami's fault; he was in control for so long yet he was seeping the blood from the Economy of Tripoli, not helping develop it. We didn't have anyone to help us stand strong before Rafiq Hariri, and now that he's gone we're furious. Did you know that the Rashid Karami International Trade Centre was built for 35 years before Rafiq Hariri decided to revive its role in 2000?? Omar Karami was furious when Hariri started to develop Tripoli and started to heavily criticise "petrodollars" (!!!)
In conclusion: no we don't like Syria and we loathe (yes loathe) Nasrallah for supporting Syria, which is why we will not tolerate Nasrallah dictating the overthrow of Fouad Saniora while the blood of Rafiq Hariri has not been avenged; is it too much to ask for? ask our brothers the Shiaas why do they still weep over Ali ibn Abi Taleb after 1,500 years in bloody displays? Rafiq Hariri was murdered less than two years ago!!
Just got here via LPJ. Your conclusions are wise.
from subtle sectarianism, to flagrant sectarian masturbation,
bravo mustapha, the correlation between the educated and the secular is diminishing by the day
at least some restraint, comeon
This blog, which started on he day Mustapha believes history began, is now openly and obviously out of the sectarian closet.
It no longer pretends to be objective, rather openly pro-FM and "Sunni" - and bravo to you for finally coming out.
Interesting observations Mustapha but you need to enpand your circle of friends a little, and look for different perspectives.
R.B
good post mustapha. and for all the hez supporters, perhaps you need to talk to the head lunatic nasrallah about sectarianism. his speeches are riddled with hate and sectarian references. he has done nothing for the country as a whole, er, sorry, other than destroy it with his little war that the lebanese people did not sign up for.
please for all the whiners out there, mustapha is speaking facts, while you all ignore the most dangerous man in lebanon and all the hate he spews.
give me a break.
Mustapha, here's a link to Yakan's statement.
It seems to me that all the Aounists coming here are accusing Mustapha for being sectarian. Let me tell you a thing or two "Aounists", your general and his following are the most sectarian in this country. Even worse, you preach to other people about the virtue of a non sectarian society and in private talk not in sectarian terms, but in demeaning sectarian terms. I've heard many of you Aounists accusing Sunnis of Wahhabism and other things. Don't talk about virtue while you and your pathetic general are the first sinners.
To Abu Nour and others let's be honest,I am not saying that Aoun is not a significant figure.I do think however he is trying to be more of a spoiler in what is transpiring,and I would say the stands he is taking now contradict the principles and beliefs he represented in the past right up until he actually returned.
Also to say that Aoun is the most significant christian figure in Lebanon with the largest following compared to those allied with March 14th,is inflating the facts and his sinificance.I think his image has been somewhat tarnished because of some of his present positions and that among some sectors in the christian community he is losing support.
So explain to me how that makes him a leader of integrity,who is less corrupt,less sectarian etc.Explain how he can join with those that have stood against what you have represented.Especially when Syria is still meddling in Lebanese affairs.
Also I would argue there are those among the Future Movement,March 14th etc who are against corruption and are less sectarian.March 14th is sunnis,druze,a considerable segment of the christians uhm maybe even half or more as well as some shiia who are more independent.How can you say someone like Abu Kais who is shiia and is closer to Mustapha in his views is being sectarian in what he posts.
In fact I will say it again the support among christians has been one of the backbones for March 14th from the start, and many of the martyrs have come from that segment.It is March 14th and their supporters who shook up Lebanon from the status quo with their demonstrations.
Also Abu Nour have posted a response to the discussion in Guerrillas Guerillad post that I hope you have a chance to read.Well look forward to responses pro and con regarding this.
Does somebody have a link to the text of Siniora's speech (in English)?
Aoun is the king of sectarianism. His only reason for entering an agreement with HA is to get to the presidency.
If Mustapha's blog is sectarian what do you call Hizb-Iran? Amal? Do you know of anyone who is not shia in these 2 groups? Nassrallah miscalculated again, demonstrations will be faced by demonstrations!
Franjeh has been a Syrian stooge since he was born!
The twisted claims found in political speeches never cease. For example, Auon on Dec 10th: “In the United States, the Declaration of Independence gives the people the right to topple their government if the latter does not meet their demands."
The Declaration of Independence (July 4, 1776) is a list of grievances of the 13 colonies in America against George III. Claims of this sort:
"He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary Powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:..."
In fact, some of the charges in the Declaration of Independence could easily apply to Syrian occupation and the recent activities of Nasrallah/Hezbollah in Lebanon!
A later document, the United States Constitution, adopted in its original form on September 17, 1787, provides a DUE PROCESS for changes within our government. Apparently Auon does not understand or know the differences between those two documents.
I don't see any issue in Mustapha being pro-Hariri. Hariri father represented a stream of Lebanese who want to build Lebanon at any cost. He had many Lebanese from other relligions and he is well known for this. So basically I didn't have to be Sunni to follow Hariri. I have an issue with an article coming from a well educated person that sees the whole problem as Sunnite-Shiite conflict. (nothing personal Mustapha, it is the case with everybody nowadys and this is sad) Now, if I am Shi3a and I am following Hariri kid, I am indirectly accused of BETRAYAL to my shiite community; and vice versa, if I am Christian and I support the resistane during the war agianst Israel, I am "THE" traitor. How stupid is that! We can fill up this blog accusing each other about who is more sectarian than the other, but can't you see the big picture? Can't you see that religion is controlling everything now? Can't you see that we had three "religious summits" telling us to go on the streets or not to go and the maronite church has launched " basic principles to follow" ? Can't you see that no one is talking anymore about economic reform, corruption fighting, job creation and so forth,rebuilding the country... all we have is the Shi3a want to control the governement, the Sunnites will not yield and the Christians are divided... Religious labels for a "retarded" country pretending it is modern... One day, after another 15 years of another stupid civil war, we realize that this is a mistake and we stay sober for only one year, then back again, we will have another round... ALL ARE GUILTY! I blamed my parents for not leaving me a secular country to liv ein, now all the people of my age are repeating my parents mistakes...
abou nour,
although i agree with your grievences, i have to say that somebody has to be held accountable. and hezbollah has not once, but twice put the economy on shaky ground w/o any regard for the country or the people as a whole. the sectarian ramafications are the results of what hezbollah has not only spewed, but by their actions as well. this is not to say that all shia feel this way, just like not all sunnis or christians feel a stereotypical way.
i would say again, as i had before in other comments that i posted that hez in other country would have been tried on treason.
peace
buckeye
The way I see it, I don't believe Mustapha looks at this strictly as sunnis vs shiia. I believe he looks upon this as most other Lebanese ie sunnis,druze,christians and even some shiia vs Hezbollah and it's interpretation of shiia islam with mainly shiite support and with significant involvement of Iran and Syria.So I can understand him being critical and very passionate about this,not to mention that I don't think you can make the same argument when Abu Kais says the same things about some of his fellow shiia.
I want to point out also that rebuilding the country,job creation,economic reform,also even corruption fighting not to mention also promoting democracy could be found as part of March 14th and the Future Movement.Some of these same things cannot be said of Hezbollah.In fact it was their actions this summer as well as now that have set Lebanon back in these areas.So I don't see how this can be set at the feet of March 14th.
I want to add that they have been in government for not quite even 2 yrs.They have had to deal with the devastating consequences of a war they did not choose to go into and which set the economy and country back considerably.A war into which they and all Lebanese were dragged into.
They tried to bring Hezbollah into and involve it in the government, with Hezbollah a intrasigent partner at best.They have had to deal with Syria continually meddling in Lebanon's affairs,and then for all that they are accused of not putting their agenda into effect in such a short period.Also want to remind everyone that it was Hezbollah and it's supporters in opposition to the March 14th coalition which was being supportive of Syria as it was being asked to leave by March 14th movement.
Hezbollah and most of those allied with them are still in the pro-syria camp, and are responsible for the very things they are blaming on the government and as a result expect to come to power.However it looks as if things are not going quite as smooth as the opposition expected.It also seems that some of that popularity Hezbollah gained has been lost by their actions and banking on that very popularity.
There are three good reasons why the Mikatis, Hosses, Karamis et al. have taken distances with the Hezbollah-led mass protests to topple the government, especially now that toppling Siniora's government seems to be the sole item on the agenda of the Shia party. The first reason is that they are all or almost all potential prime ministers and certainly do not want to set an unpleasant precedent whereby street demonstrations alone can topple a government. The second reason, which is somewhat related to the first is that they were probably advised against backing that specific aspect of the Hezbollah demands by rulers of other countries where street protests are severely checked or punished. Last but not least, it has to do with the very politics of Lebanon as a multisectarian country. It is not admissible that a Sunni prime minister be brought down by what is after all basically a Shiite demand. In Lebanon, you cannot elect or choose a leader from a given sect without the approval of the other sects. However, he can only be brought down by his own sect. In the wake of Hariri's assassination, Omar Karami was not toppled by street protests but in and by parliament and more to the point, he was specifically requested to step down by a fellow Sunni member of parliament, none other than the assassinated leader's sister.
Ka2ed il mokawami should be replaced by Mustapha... He seems to know a lot more and is much more educated,realistic and patriotic...
Mustapha ...mustapha...mustapha...
Good material !
For all those mistaken readers,read between the lines and stay updated!
I have some questions for Lebanese folk.
1. Given the assumption that Lebanon will never be free of foreign influence, would you choose to be influenced by Israel and the US, or Syria and Iran?
2. What do Lebanese think about the alleged US interference in Lebanon? Reports have indicated the US Ambassador Feltman has been regularly visiting Sanioura in the Serail. Given that the US abandoned Lebanon during the Israeli terror campaign, what do Lebanese feel about that?
3. Is there any legitimacy in what the Opposition is demands, veto, unity government etc.?
Just reading many of the comments on this board makes me a little sad...we ourselves are already splitting into different sects.
Looking back on all of this, I can't help but wonder about the confessionalist system. Yes, Lebanese politics are all about the maneuvering of different religious sects, and I'm pretty certain that would still be true even if government positions weren't determined by religion. Still, the confessionalist system sets this fact in stone. If positions weren't delianated by religon by law, that would be a step forward towards dissolving barriers. Sects are less likely to form if there are less laws recognizing their existence, no?
Abu Nour, I sympathize...my parents' generation repeated the mistake in Vietnam, and now another country is paying the price...Please, Lebanese, Sunni, Shii, Christian, Druze...learn from history. There is still much time left for compromise.
Until Israel bombed Lebanon this summer, I never heard of nor saw your Saniora anywhere on our American news outlets.
Since then I've had glimpses on television, the internet, and via these Lebanese blogs...
He seems a very solid man to me, with a heart and mind in good working order.
Events and outside forces may overwhelm him, but he's certainly doing a very good personal best for your Lebanon and his...
A commentator in Ha'aretz (of all places!) warned the Israelis not to underestimate him as an OPPONENT to Olmert's and Rice's design to set Sunni and Christian Lebanese against Hezbollah...
If my country had a leader with half his brains and heart, we'd be way better off.
The Pro Senyoura comments in Israeli newspapers mean to systematically undermine his authority , integrity and popularity. The worst thing that israel needs now is a PM like him , an educated popular PM who has excellent relations with both the West and Gulf countries. They need to strengthen Hezbalah and any of his sunni allies because a free democtratic prosperous Lebanon is not what they want. Both Hezbalah and Israel have a common goal so in the middle east even the worst enemies collude sometimes. Remember Iran gate , Syrian presence in Lebanon etc....
Thank God For Senyoura and Pray for Lebanon
What a pathetic post: Me and fellow most Tripoli's see this whole thing as a poltical dispute thats it. Sure there are people who like Senyora here, but hardly anyone believes its a shia-sunni fight-we are NOT iraq!!! Get that into your head Mustapha!
By the way, it does not hwlp to have sectarian sunni fools from Cider (Future TV goons) come to tripoli and encourage brainless fools to chant anti-shiite slogans for the cameras as I saw during the first rally: The 'future' (a better word would be 'backwardness' party) is inciting sectarianism on agrand scale, and it doesn't help wheh you have sectarian Amal shia militiamen in beirut smashing and burning property of innocent sunnis and threatning ethnic cleansing!
Lets face it: lebanese are their own worst enemy!
Lebanese are indeed their own worst enemy. The comments on this blog are proof. I seriously do not understand how any one can stand (let alone side with) this party or that. And on top of that have the nerve to call the other side sectarian.
OK it is not just political,in the sense that this is about the very future of Lebanon and what Lebanon will be like in the future.To those of you who stood up and said Syria get out it should matter what is happening,because you took a stand against foreign meddling particularly of like Syria and Iran.
It also should be said that calling this a sunni-shiia fight may not be the most accurate term.However it could be said that this is a fight between Hezbollah and those that have decided to stand with it against most other Lebanese and in particular March 14th and the Future Movement.
It would be fair to say that there are some sunni-shia dimensions to this conflict in that Hezbollah is a shiia group claiming to speak for all shiia,and with support from most of the shiia community.Also that to a great degree the sunnis are one of the driving forces in March 14th.
I also don't get how when a PM is supposed to be sunni and have the support to a great extent of the sunnis,how the opposition can demand the resignation of Seniora when he has the support certainly of most sunnis.Can someone explain how the opposition can seriously expect that demand to be met.
It is true that when you take each community in Lebanon separately,that the shiia are the largest.But when you put all the other Lebanese together which it is becoming more increasinly like, the shiia are the minority.A substantial minority yes,but still a minority something like 30 percent.So they should not be able to force their agenda on the rest of the Lebanese.
Concerning Israel I believe that the pro-Seniora comments reflect in Israel a desire for March 14th to succeed and for Hezbollah to be diminished,because even when Syria was there Hezbollah was not contained and it is a threat to Israel.So in the long run Israel will benefit as much as Lebanon from March 14th succeeding in my view.
We Love Siniora, God Bless him and protect him! And to Aoun and his pitty supporters as well to Iran's Ambassador in Lebanon Hassan Nassrallah : there is at least one million Lebanese Sunni in Lebanon and 200 million arab sunni in the arab world supporting Siniora. Hence the Druze + millions of true lebanese christians + true arab shiaa. So the equation is easy to understand :
189 UN State members are behind Siniora versus Aoun, Hassoun, Najad and Bachar.
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