Argh, I'm grading right now and I'm seeing them all. Does no one proofread?

Here's a question - if one is assigning/deducting 100 points for an essay (a certain # for having an intro/conclusion, a certain # for having an argument, a certain # for using evidence to support the thesis) - how many points should be at stake for spelling, grammar, formatting, and punctuation mistakes? Interested to hear what people think.
Adlai | 11.08.08 - 9:20 pm | #

It depends on if they wrote it in class or at home, and if they had access to a computer. I consider in class writing a rough/first draft and thus do not place as heavy an emphasis on spelling/grammar. If it is done at home, it should be perfect. Overall, my rubrics have spelling/grammar at a value of around 10%
Andrea | 11.08.08 - 9:36 pm | #

No points should be awarded for proper grammar, but points should be taken away for improper grammar. I think if I were a professor I would make it really harsh, like a grade and a half for absolute butchery of the English language, but I would give them an opportunity to fix spelling and grammar if they don't want the demerits.
isaac_spaceman | Homepage | 11.08.08 - 10:25 pm | #

Keep in mind all grading efforts are focused on reducing time spent grading. So no revisions.

I like the sentiment of only taking points away - I'm trying to figure out how to incorporate that into my rubric.
Adlai | 11.08.08 - 11:18 pm | #

How old are the students? That has to be factored in.
Adam | Homepage | 11.08.08 - 11:19 pm | #

Certainly old enough to know better. They're all eligible to vote.
Adlai | 11.08.08 - 11:40 pm | #

No ex-felons? Hmm. College-aged students should be docked for this, but it's better if you tell them in advance that this will be factored in.
Adam | Homepage | 11.08.08 - 11:47 pm | #

Sorry for the length of the following post, but (a) I feel very strongly about this issue, and (b) I have a pile of papers sitting on my desk, so this stuff's been on my mind.

In grading college essays, I pretty firmly reject the idea that everyone starts from 100 and then gets "points taken off" for errors (whether grammatical or analytical). I know that's not what Adlai was implying about his grading system, but that's absolutely the way that most students interpret such systems: they want to know "what did I do wrong?", rather than seeking to figure out what they should do right.

To discourage this attitude, I give students the following rubric, which I borrow from Harry Edmund Shaw, “Responding to Student Essays,” in Teaching Prose, ed. Frederic C. Bogel and Katherine K. Gottschalk (New York: W. W. Norton, 1984). What I really like about this model is that it shows students that style and substance are intimately connected -- good prose generally makes smart ideas better, while weak prose makes shaky ideas worse.

A Detailed understanding of the text; sound organization; few or no mechanical errors; clear, unambiguous sentences, perhaps with a touch of elegance—in the best A papers a lively and intelligent voice seems to speak; it has something interesting to say and says it clearly and gracefully to an appropriate audience; its thesis is fully supported.

B Clear thesis, organization, and continuity; probably some minor mechanical errors but no major ones; slightly awkward style at times; ideas that are
reasonable and anchored in the text—thought has obviously gone into the paper; it is solid but not striking; the writer has a definite point to make and makes it in an organized and competent way, and to a definite audience; in sum, good but not great.

C A weak, fuzzy thesis and perhaps illogical arguments to support it; a certain amount of confusion about what the text at hand actually says; many minor
mechanical errors and perhaps some major ones (e.g., incomplete sentences);examples given for their own sake or to demonstrate that the writer has read the
text, not to prove a point; organization rambles or disappears; words are misused;diction is inconsistent; proofreading is weak; the intended audience is
unclear—there are some ideas here, but the writer needs help and work to make them clear to another reader.

D Thesis missing; major mechanical problems; poor organization; serious misreadings of the text; stretches in which the writer simply gives a narrative account of the text for no apparent purpose; the paper is much shorter than the assigned length—the writer doesn’t really have a point to make and has serious problems in writing and reading at an appropriate level.

F Shows general weaknesses even graver than those of a D paper.
Professor Jeff | 11.09.08 - 10:45 am | #

What's sad is that it took me a few looks at the subject header to see the spelling error. I shall blame my hideous cold.
Jenn. | 11.09.08 - 12:26 pm | #

I teach a two-week class on telecom law over the summer. (I don't know whether "I teach" is the right construction. I taught last year and have agreed to return and hope to make it a regular gig.) The class includes many ESOL students, as the program in which I teach has a heavy international component. Grading last year's exams, I had to make substantial allowances for errors like those described here.

But Jeff's comment makes me think of one student in particular. I knew she was doing the (substantial) reading dutifully, and she participated when she could, though she was never spot-on in answering questions (she'd get some of the right terms but couldn't show that she understood what they meant and how they fit into the larger picture). After (anonymous) grading was done, I got the list and saw that she had gotten a B (her exam was slightly below a B, and I gave her a grade slightly higher than a B for class participation, and under the averaging rules it wound up as a B). I was somewhat surprised to receive an email from her after grades were distributed saying, in summary, "I got a B but I really wanted an A." I replied that if she sent me her student id number I'd reread the paper and let her know what I thought, but emphasized that under the (very wise) school policy, I was unable to change the grade.

A few days later, I received a somewhat unpleasant e-mail from her, repeating her belief that she "deserved" an A, because "[she] did all the reading."

So I went back to the paper, and wrote her a four-page note about the grade. The bottom line was that she had parroted facts back very well (not that hard in an open-book exam), but had utterly failed to engage the aspects of the text question that required independent analysis: No thesis, no explanation, no nothing, notwithstanding the fact that the questions clearly asked for opinions and reasoning. (The conceit of the exam was that the student was a staffer for a new Congresswoman,and that the Congresswoman had requested a memo containing the staffer's advice on various telecommunications law/policy questions.) For me, this was clearly no better than a B exam, and in many settings it probably would have been a C exam. I told her that if she disagreed she should pursue the school's procedures for challenging the grade.

Never heard from her again.

Oh, and I'm taking credit for the tag line, which (consciously or otherwise) keys off a joke I made in a previous thread on this topic. :P
Russ | Homepage | 11.09.08 - 12:41 pm | #

Russ, I get a few students like that every semester. "I wanted a different grade than the one I got." They fail to realize that that's neither a question nor a problem for their professor to solve, merely a declarative statement of their own regret.
Adlai | 11.09.08 - 2:19 pm | #

And Prof. Jeff -thanks for that. I really like that rubric - I'm tending toward a similar idea in constructing mine. To clarify - while I've defined high achievement in various categories and will award points accordingly, I think I might adopt Isaac's idea of not awarding (and only deducting) points for spelling, grammar, punctuation. The best papers are well-written anyway, and I've been trying to send a message throughout the semester that college is not actually the last time people will care about their writing skills.
Adlai | 11.09.08 - 2:24 pm | #

Adlai -- Happy to help. The whole book from which I borrowed that rubric (Bogel et al., Teaching Prose) is well worth checking out.

And yes, yes, yes, students really must be reminded that, even after college, writing will still matter. My favorite anecdote on this point: When my wife was in business school, a recent alumnus returned to campus with his company as a recruiter. Shortly after the on-campus interviews, he wrote an effusive letter to the career services office, saying how strong the interviewees had been and how proud he was to be an alum. That said, however, he was horrified by the poor quality of several of the candidates' follow-up letters, which were riddled with mechanical errors, plagued by stylistic fuzziness, and lacking any specific details (about why the firm should hire that particular candidate). "Even if these candidates were the very best interviewees we saw," said the recruiter, "they will never get a final interview, let alone an offer. We do not want a candidate who takes so little pride in his or her work, and we do not ever want writing like that going out under our letterhead."
Professor Jeff | 11.09.08 - 2:38 pm | #

I give my students a rubric when I hand out their paper topics, and then I give them the same rubric when I had back their papers. My rubric breaks down their grade into six equally weighted categories. They receive a maximum of 5 points for each category. When I hand back their paper they can see what category, specifically, they need to work on. I, too, have many ESL students. If their writing needs work I tell them. But I also tell them if their ideas are excellent and their grammar is what is holding them back. I don't expect that they will all be happy with their paper grades, but I do expect that they will learn something from my comments.
I had a student last semester that was upset that she received an A- in the course. I explained the breakdown of her grade (in percentages) and she wrote back thanking me for the thorough explanation. I had another student recently ask me why he received a 28/30 on an in-class essay. I hadn’t marked anything wrong specifically; his analysis was okay but it wasn’t great. I basically told him that, but he wasn’t satisfied.
I agree that most students feel they start the semester with an A and then lose points as they go. I try to explain that everyone starts with a zero and has to work to earn their grade. They do not understand this concept. Of course my favorite are students who never show up to class and expect they will receive an A. My syllabi now say: After three absences your grade will suffer (i.e., the likelihood of receiving an “A” is bleak). Haggling over grades is one of the most annoying and disheartening parts of the job.
Emily | 11.09.08 - 5:52 pm | #

It really is dreadful. That's why I like to disappear from campus as soon as I've given the final, and not post their grades online until the last possible moment. While I (with all of my colleagues) enjoy saying things like, "I never would have asked for a higher grade!" I can't decide if students today are more likely to do so or if there's a steady 5-10% of the student body who does so.
Adlai | 11.09.08 - 6:34 pm | #

I think email creates a problem, as well. My students can email me complaints that they would never feel comfortable talking with me about in person. Of course, the tone and substance of student emails is an entirely different topic.
Emily | 11.09.08 - 6:41 pm | #

Oh, yeah. I always feel like they should hand something out during freshman orientation - A Guide to Emailing Your Professors. 1 page, would contain some quick tips about addressing them properly, using spell check, using official email addresses instead of "saucygirl12" and not asking us to come in to do them a favor on days we don't teach or have office hours. At least not without being entirely aware that one is asking a huge favor and that we're not all sitting at home twiddling thumbs looking for something to do.
Adlai | 11.09.08 - 6:48 pm | #

Since there appears to be a good number of academics on this thread, I'll post the article that made me both laugh and cry this weekend. Some of you may not see the humor in it, but I'm guessing some of you will.

http://education.yahoo.net/ degre...at_pay_70k.html
Adlai | 11.09.08 - 6:49 pm | #

Adlai -- Ah, yes, "flexibility," the blessing and the curse of the academic life. My mom's dissertation adviser put it best: "Being a college professor is a great job: you can work any 75 hours a week you want to."
Professor Jeff | 11.09.08 - 8:19 pm | #

I like that. What I tell aspiring grad students about the academic life is that you spend it either working or feeling like you should be working.
Adlai | 11.09.08 - 8:43 pm | #

I love the fact that there is a sophisticated analysis of the grading process for college-level writing buried in a post on commonly misspelled words. (I also went to Mr. Language's website and apparently I've been pronouncing "long-lived" incorrectly all my long life.

I also enjoyed that Yahoo post, although to be fair, they weren't saying that being a college professor was easy, just that it offers more flexible hours than many careers.
Philomena | 11.09.08 - 9:09 pm | #

Having recently transitioned, I have found that I much prefer the academic lifestyle to hourly billing, but the flexibility is drastically oversold. When you spend 2 bazillion hours in various meetings, you have to be on campus a lot! Academia loves its meetings.

No matter how well-developed the rubric, grading writing feels so subjective. I struggle with it a lot, so I really enjoyed this thread.
3under5 | 11.09.08 - 9:29 pm | #

I mostly like that yahoo post for the idea that someone would decide to choose academia as a career after reading a list that also included "interior designer" and "travel agent." This is meant as absolutely no slight on those professions (where for all I know it getting a job may also be a total crapshoot) but suggesting hey, you want to make money? There are all these jobs in academia because everyone's retiring! Just go get a Ph.D. and one can be yours! Heh.
Adlai | 11.09.08 - 9:43 pm | #

I can't spell any words right today... I guess that's an after-effect from getting engaged today!!! (sorry for the threadjack, just wanted to spread the good news).
calliek | 11.09.08 - 10:04 pm | #

CallieK -- Mazel Tov!
Mr. Cosmo | 11.09.08 - 10:44 pm | #

Woah, calliek--that was a surprise at the end of a long thread! Congratulations!!! Is there a story?
spacewoman | Homepage | 11.09.08 - 11:23 pm | #

Congrats, calliek!
Jenn. | 11.09.08 - 11:35 pm | #

Best wishes!
Adlai | 11.10.08 - 12:35 am | #

Mazel tov, Callie! And I join spacewoman in asking for a story.

Adam, love the tag line (Russ knows why).
Genevieve | 11.10.08 - 1:13 am | #

Three cheers for Callie!
Bob E. | 11.10.08 - 6:10 am | #

Our background story is pretty basic. We've known each other since we were in 7th grade, when he moved to my town. I remember his first day clearly because someone came running up to my friends and me, and asked, "Have you seen the new kid? He's taller than Mr. Jo!!" Who was the guidance councelor and probably one of the tallest people we all saw on a regular basis. Poor kid, 13 years old and more than 6 feet tall. So anyway, we became friends in High School, stayed friends through college, until we started dating second half of senior year.

Funny mini-story... Freshman year at SUNY, I was talking to one of my friends about crushes and friends and whatnot... and I told her that out of everyone, I was probably going to end up marrying John. We had never dated, and wouldn't still for another 4 years, but there you go. I just knew.

So for yesterday's story...

We were in Boston for the Prudential Center Artisan Market (which if you're in the area and enjoy finding treasures on etsy.com, I wholeheartedly recommend, but anyway)... and I remembered that the Pru is attached to the Copley Plaza, which, in case you don't know, is part hotel and part mall, and in the shops portion there is a Tiffany's.

Now, I had seen a ring on the Tiffany's site that I had loved and had showed him months ago. I had never been into a Tiffanys though (we've tried to go several times only to find that it's closed). So I asked if we could please go in, and he said that he needed to get the courage up to go in there. I will admit, I got kind of mad. I mean, HELLO, we were right there, and it's not like I wanted to BUY anything.

So we walked around, went into a couple stores, and then we were headed out. And he said we should go sit down somewhere, because he wanted to get his bags organized or something (I didn't care, I was fuming at this point). So we found some benches by the front doors, and he started fidgeting.

He said, "We can go into Tiffany's, but there's something I should do first."

And he got down on one knee!!!

And I cried, and laughed, and said yes, and laughed some more about how much I almost totally killed the mood.
calliek | 11.10.08 - 6:15 am | #

Congratulations, Callie!
Russ | Homepage | 11.10.08 - 8:54 am | #

My responses to everything:
1. My favorite misspellings are the ones that occur on exams, directly below a question in which the word is spelled correctly. "Vertical" is a frequent culprit.
2. Speaking of exams, all this talk about grading papers in classes where people actually write papers for grades makes me glad I teach math, where I don't have to worry about interpreting a student's thesis, and where the students don't think the grade on an assignment is some piece of negotiable currency.
3. My congratulations to Mr. Liek!
Finch | Homepage | 11.10.08 - 10:00 am | #

Terrific story, Callie - thanks for posting it! (And I love the parenthetical reference to etsy)
Genevieve | 11.10.08 - 10:01 am | #

Congrats to Callie! Also, thanks to all with the insight on grading papers. I also have to grade papers/base grades entirely on writing and research. This has been very helpful for me. Next semester I have my first "traditional" law school seminar (as opposed to the clinic-type class I currently teach) and will be basing their grades on one paper and participation.
Kate | 11.10.08 - 10:20 am | #

Congratulations, Callie -- enjoy the bliss of the newly engaged, and don't let wedding planning drive you crazy! (But if you want a recommendation for the cheapest engraved invitations on the market, let me know!)
gretchen | 11.10.08 - 10:24 am | #

gretchen- as long as they didn't fall off the back of someone's truck, then I am always open to suggestion!
calliek | 11.10.08 - 10:35 am | #

Callie, congratulations! What a great story. (If it makes you feel any better about killing the mood, on the evening I got engaged, I knew my now-husband was going to ask, but he hadn't yet, and he was torturing me. I turned to him at intermission of the show we were seeing and said, "Why do you hate me?")

Best of luck with wedding planning!
Sue | 11.10.08 - 10:37 am | #

Congratulations!

For anyone hiring a caterer for a wedding, or really, any event, I cannot recommend enough that The Food Whore be a resource of what not to do.
bill | Homepage | 11.10.08 - 11:00 am | #

Callie: Reaves Engraving, www.reavesengraving.com. They will out and out refuse to do anything newfangled, but they do a beautiful job on engraved invites that even Emily Post would approve.
gretchen | 11.10.08 - 11:27 am | #

Hey, we used Reaves Engraving too! They were really inexpensive (comparatively) and did a fantastic job! Family run, and a sweet older lady called me to check on the exact wording (and to make sure I intended to deviate from standard wording in certain places - I did). So yes, not so much with the newfangled. But highly recommend.
Adlai | 11.10.08 - 11:41 am | #

Yay Callie! Congratulations!!!!

And bill, I LOVE the Food Whore.
Marsha | Homepage | 11.10.08 - 12:58 pm | #

Back to the topic, I tel my students right up front that their job in a paper is to engage my interest. anything that pulls my mind out of their argument is going to hurt their grade. Grammar errors, poorly constructed arguments (no matter how good those arguments), spelling errors, word choice errors, etc are all examples. They should be trying to get me to read through to the end without remembering that I have a red pen sitting next to me as I read. I tell them that their ideal is for the only comments I put on their paper to be the ones that say things like "Interesting - have you thought about {this additional thing}....?"

Anyway, I cut my international students a lot of slack because most of them have never written an academic paper in English and will be going right back to their home countries. I give them a lot of advice on how to do it, and hope they'll learn from it, but I don't destroy their grade over an "effect or affect" problem.

You want to be sad about the state of the grammatical world? Read law school admissions essays. Every year I make up a list of word misuses and misspellings that I wish I could magically never see again: effect/affect, "pour over my books," imply/infer, etc. And ones that are pretty much automatic disqualifiers - if you can't get to/too/two or their/they're/there right in your law school apps, you shouldn't be going to law school.

What makes me truly crazy is that these kids do not seem to understand that they are expected to be putting forth their best effort in these apps. If they can't get it right in the application, they're not going to get it right when I have to read their papers 2 years later. Doesn't make me want to admit them.
Marsha | Homepage | 11.10.08 - 1:19 pm | #

Ha, I bought some monogrammed notecards from Reaves and they got all antsy about the fact that my initials are all vowels and my last name begins with "I". (Why? I don't know.) The rep had the following brilliant idea:

Reaves Employee: I know! You could use your maiden name instead of your middle initial!

Me: I didn't change my name.

RE: "Uhhhh..." DOES NOT COMPUTE DOES NOT COMPUTE..."I guess we're all set then!"

Me: Great!

I love my notecards.

And congrats CallieK!
Philomena | 11.10.08 - 8:31 pm | #

I love the engagement story! Also love Sue's story! I think 90% of the great stories I've heard involve something going awry, someone getting mad, etc. Not me; I saw the writing on the wall and got my nails done that morning to be ready to show off the ring.

Even-cheaper-than-cheapest-ever-but-not-engraved: Marry someone artistic who can make them himself.
spacewoman | 11.11.08 - 12:07 pm | #