Interesting regarding the hype surrounding the Rosner's aliyah. I had assumed it was coming through YU/CFTJF (IANAL, ROFLOL).
An entire book could be written about commercializing religion, by the ways.
The important distinction you raise regarding the Rabbinate in Israel needs further dissemination, especially to Anglos living in Israel.
The fact that a community must be beholden to a Rabbi that it does not choose, who moreover enjoys a lifetime appointment is an outrage.
Similarly, the oft-cited psak of RMF, that mechanchim cannot be fired, and that a mechanech's children have rights to inherit their father's position has superseded even American-style teacher's unions in crippling our educational system. This, despite its supposed halachik underpinnings and historical precedent. (I say "supposed" because both the halachik and historical aspects are questionable. Regardless, a school can stipulate and ought to stipulate that it can and will fire its teachers for incompetence and burn out, and that children retain no claim on the position.)
Nepotism, cronyism, political and lifetime appointments have no place in the religious/communal sphere, if any sphere.
Does anyone actually know how many members are actually moving with Rabbi Rosner? From what I have heard it may be just one couple.
He gave a pretty moving talk on YUTORAH.edu
KT
Shavua Tov Adderabbi,
All true of course.
I have written up my impressions regarding the structure of Israeli communities and their relationships with their rabbis in articles which may be downloaded here:
http://skadish1.googlepages.com/....com/open-
torah
See "The Open Jewish Community" and (especially) the "Background information for readers of the English version."
Would be pleased to follow up comments via e-mail from those interested in the topic.
Shavua Tov AddeRabbi (and all).
Thanks very much for the posting...it's cross posted already.
Looking fwd to part II.
Seth -- I've posted your link as well.
And now...I'm off to milluim!
I appreciate the positive reference to Rabbi Rosner's mission to create a new and different kind of values-driven, planned community in Israel.
Since my wife and I were mentioned in the original post, permit me to clarify that we did not "cook up this plan."
Anyone who knows even an iota about this part of Bet Shemesh knows that you don't need to be a brain surgeon to sell homes there. It may well be the hottest community in Israel.People stand in line to buy there.
Shelly, I and the two building comapnies, Kardan and Yesodot Tzur, rather are committed to trying a pilot community that we hope will possibly become a model for many more to follow. (And the builders are even donating a large, lovely central bet knesset, not typical from builders.)
Rabbis in Israel are largely bureaucratic functionaries of the state. Most Western rabbis are trained professionals, shepherds who tend to their flock. We miss that these past 28 years living in Israel and decided to do something to try to make a difference.
We met with almost ten rabbis in the US, England and South Africa before deciding that Rabbi Rosner was absolutely the best candidate by far. Thankfully, he agreed to take on the challenge.
Anyway, take a look at www.nofeihashemesh.co.il if you'd like to know more about joining a great new community while the prices are lower than they will ever again be! And yes, Tivuch Shelly is selling homes there to great families...that is how a community takes shape!
Charley Levine
Thanks Jameel.
Adderabbi, as my wife just pointed out to me, it is unfortunately not correct that an Israeli shul-rabbi directly elects its rabbi for X years (as per your chart). The only time something like that can happen is if the shul is a private initiative (like a non-Orthodox congregation with no relationship to the local rabbinate).
If, however, a shul in a city or town wants a "Rav Beit Knesset" then this is what happens: He must first be elected by the amuta that controls the shul. (This sounds fair, but remember that Israeli amutot are also not by definition democratic institutions and "membership" in a shul doesn't necessarily give you a vote.) If the amuta elects him and the city rabbi approves, then he serves for life and he can never be fired (!). If the city rabbi doesn't approve, then it is against the law (!) to call him "Rav Beit Knesset."
Where I live, the influential charedi chief rabbis of the city published full page ads in the local paper with legal threats after a local Sephardic synagogue advertised a shiur by its "Rav Beit Knesset." The fellow was actually the head of a local Religious Zionist kollel who, when asked to do so, served for free as their rabbi.
On this, see "Background information for readers of the English version" at my webpage.
Charley - thanks for the clarification.
Seth - I know several instances where this is not the case. Perhaps the person is not called 'Rav Beit Knesset', or perhaps different municipalities have different regulations, but where I daven, we have a rav whose contract was recently extended by 2 years. i do not know all of the details of the process since i was not a member at the time.
You are correct. The loophole in the law is that if he is not called "Rav Beit Knesset" (but perhaps "Rav Kehillah" instead) and he is funded privately, then he may be hired based upon a negotiated contract. Many places do this, especially in places like in Modi'in where you live and the dati community demands it.
Nevertheless, it is certainly not the spirit of the law on the books. Furthermore, consider the political pressures: A shul that depends on the local Mo'etza Datit for part or all of its ongoing expenses will think twice about crossing the city rabbis by hiring a rabbi not of his choice. Members of the shul themselves may protest against crossing the city rabbi by hiring a rabbi who would be otherwise acceptable to the majority. Much depends on how much political power the city rabbis have, and there are places where they wield considerable influence (like where I live). After all, the law gives them serious privileges, and they can never be fired...
My guess is that throughout Israel, the majority of synagogue rabbis today are still the "official" legal model, not the unofficial private-contract model you see in Modi'in.
"Readers may wonder why I have chosen to focus primarily on the economics of the rabbinate."
I doubt it.
Elli - it was cross-posted to another blog, where people are not quite as familiar with my blogging.
Charley,
I hope that the project is not your client as the URL you provided both in your comment and as your homepage is incorrect and a dead page (PR 101). Maybe that is why only one couple has so far bought? They couldn't find the website 
oops - that's funny.
the links in the body of the post actually work.
that's:
http://jump2.webadsisrael.com/?
a...abbi.massaliyah
I am embarrassed! The correct URL for the new community is www.nofei.co.il Sorry, guys...
Charley levine
Alternatively, http://jump2.webadsisrael.com/?
a...abbi.massaliyah gets to the same page.
Edited By Siteowner
My link gets to the same page. The difference is, I get paid per click (actually, by Charley, or his company, Lone Star Communications).
RE; Rabbanut:
1) not all are lifetime appointments. The country rabbis and some larger cities have periodic elections
2) I had to disagree with the hired by politicians bit as well. not only b/c of 1 above, but also b/c of the simple fact that the selection committees usually have many rabbis, and religious council memebers on them as well. For example in Jersualem there are committee members who represent the shuls and are elected by shul members. it's not a perfect system, but it's not totally political as in knesset/local council politics.
Ben Bayit:
For the country rabbis, the law was changed during the term of Rav Ovadia out of political considerations. But the founding value of the Rabbanut was that a rav is hired for a lifetime and may never be fired. Rav Kuk's idea by the way, and it still remains intact for all local rabbis. I am not aware of any city that has periodic elections, and to the best of my knowledge that would be against the law. Please correct me if I am mistaken.
Regarding "hired by politicians," what you describe is a perfect example of a highly political process, and from what I have seen the local level may not be any less political than the knesset. Who, by the way, chooses the "representatives of the shuls"? Is there a concept of *membership* in the shuls of Israeli cities that allows you to vote for who sits on the board? (If you guessed "no" then you are correct for most places...)
AddeRabbi:
Since this topic has unfortunately become so relevant to me during my years in Israel (how I wish it wasn't!), here is some expansion on the case described in "Background for English speakers" on my webpage (not the same case as the Sephardic synagogue mentioned in my previous comment):
The following is an extreme (but true) example of the vast difference between the two systems: A large number of English-speakers all attended the same synagogue in a small Israeli town. They learned of a recently retired Orthodox American rabbi who planned to make aliyah, and was considering settling in their town. So they raised a modest sum of money amongst themselves, in order to hire him as their part-time rabbi and facilitate his aliyah. When the town’s chief Ashkenazic rabbi heard about this plan, he called a meeting and told them: "I am the rabbi of this town. If there is to be a rabbi for this synagogue, it will be the rabbi of my choice. And if money is raised to pay a rabbi, then it will pay the rabbi that I appoint."
The board of the shul consulted a lawyer who advised them that city rabbi was fully within his rights to deny them their choice of rabbi. (The bit about the money was apparently an empty threat, but one that nonetheless worked.) Some board members still did not want to give in (perhaps by hiring the rabbi unofficially) but the gabbai and other influential members were scared. In the end the immigrant rabbi was not hired, and some years later a rav beholden to the city rabbi was named official rabbi by the board (for a lifetime according to the law).
I have not mentioned any names because I don't see a reason to expand lashon hara (I believe the discussion itself clearly has to'elet). But I know *all* of the people involved personally, and can verify the story privately if necessary. The rabbi, by the way, is a wonderful person (not that his appropriateness justifies the lack of accountability implicit in a lifetime job not subject to contract).
The agreement with the shul stipulated that the rabbi would have absolutely no economic relationship with the shul (i.e. they pay no salary). Of course, that still allows the city rabbi to list the synagogue as one that he supplies a rabbi to when reporting on activities to donors (and even pay a salary through the donations).
Adderabbi, I suggest you change your chart as follows to *two* types of city-shul rabbi:
A) The traditional, legal, official "Rav Beit Knesset." Serves for life and can't be fired. In principle should be paid a full-time salary, but there is almost never government funding for this, nor even for a decent part-time salary. Nonetheless, the law grants the rabbi full authority over the shul, and that in itself has serious economic value.
B) The unofficial Rav Kehillah, where the members raise money to support a freely, directly chosen rabbi with a contract. Almost always part-time (in Ceasaria I think it's full-time).
Note that B can only be realized on two conditions:
1. A new community that doesn't *already* have a rabbi-for-life.
2. A strong, interested dati community that is willing to take responsibility and raise funds for a rabbi, despite the fact that competing shuls are entirely free.
Note that both of these conditions are true in Modi'in: An entirely new city that basically didn't exist ten years ago. Entirely new communities and shuls. No rabbis already hired for life. A strong dati-leumi community that *wants* a rabbinate that is answerable to it.
I hope that the Modi'in model is the future, but we have to live in the present. These conditions do NOT exist in most Israeli cities and towns. That is why I suggest you put two "city-shul" models in your chart.
Seth Kadish - what you write sounds too fantastic to be true. I will remind you that the Basic Law: Freedom of Occupation had a section on keeping old laws intact but unlike Basic Law: Human rights which had a fixed exemption, Freedom of Occupation had a time frame that already expired and was not renewed. Therefore even older legislation had to be brought up to date by now. The fact is there is no legal grounds to prevent a shul from hiring a rabbi and prevent a rabbi to work at a shul that has hired him. Any town Rabbi that tries to do such should immediately have a High Court injunction petition opened up against them, which they will probably lose if they decide to push it.
fair enough. i'll get to it soon.
Ben Bayit:
I wish Seth were making this stuff up.
A city rabbi has plenty of ways to make life difficult for a shul that does not toe his line.
And the gabbaim / shul board are busy volunteers who have better things to do than fight with the city rabbi.
This city rabbi, on the other hand, is not a volunteer, may not be particularly busy, and may not have anything better to do.
Seth: It could have been worse. At least the shul rabbi is not a blood relative of the city rabbi.
Ben Bayit: On the idea that the High Court might someday destroy the model of the Rabbanut Mekomit as it now exists in Israel, I can only say: "From your mouth to God's ears!"
Wouldn't it be nice if the Court did some good for a change?
I actually wrote about that issue of the relationship between the Supreme Court and the Rabbanut when the whole Tzohar Kashrut initiative came up at the beginning of the Shemittah year.
http://adderabbi.blogspot.com/20...n-
rabbanut.html
http://adderabbi.blogspot.com/20...-
regarding.html
I daven in Rabbi Rosner's shul.His aliyah will be a tremendous loss for us.He actually was considered part time,given he also taught at YU,and worked at camp mesorah in the summer.However the amount of time he put into shiurim and personal issues made him a full timer.Those who move to his new neighborhood will not regret it.I don't know anything about the realestate there,but he is a unique individual.You will be blown away by the breadth of knowlege of this "baby faced" rav.His shiurim are phenomonal.Although a few couples from the shul have made aliyah over the years,I am not aware of any that are following him per say.This should reflect badly on us,and not Rav Rosner.I know he will also be teaching at Reishit Yerushalayim,and will continue his daf yomi on a new website.
Haim-
I know Rabbi Rosner as well. He was a top guy in Rav Rosenzweig's shiur at YU when I was a back bencher. I believe I still have his notes from the shiurim on Kiddushin.
I'm also friends with R. Rosner's brother-in-law.
I've been trying to convince him to start a torah blog to maintain the kesher with some of us,kind of like you have been doing since making aliyah.I told him,that it doesn't need to require added work.He could just post his shabbat d'rashot.He never liked the connotation of "blogs",but I'm still trying to convince him that lashon hara doesn't need to be on a torah blog.
I also know his brother-in-law!
agree with ADDeRabbi. The Supreme Court got involved in local rabbanut politics regarding shemitta - which also involved Freedom of Occupation issues. Now this is a slippery slope - which is why I would hope that city rabbis would have sechel enough to NOT engage in this type of behavior so as not provoke court petitions which will inevitably lead to court petitions for shops selling pork and staying open on shabbat........
I will second or third the haskamot for Rav Rosner - just listen to his shiurim online. However, I would caution those considering purchasing houses in this new project. The same builder built the same models of houses in Ramat Beit Shemesh (known as Sungardens). We too were promised a shul that was never built. And the quality of the buildings is problematic. Perhaps they've fixed this for the new project, but ask around first.
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