AmericanPapist Comments
"In the church there are many people of faith who love the church and are deeply committed. But it is a society as a whole that is tending toward a secularist outlook."
And if society jumped off a cliff is that where you would lead the Church too?
And your Lectionary sucks, too!
sooo many experts...and so little time...
Canada has issues. Lots and lots of issues. Not that America doesn't, but Canada makes the US look conservative.
Perhaps the first thing His Holiness should do is persuade our bishops to retract the Winnipeg Statement. There is much confusion regarding the Church's stand on contraception here because of it.
Other than that, it would be great if he could get them to be not quite so...uncontroversial.
I live in Ontario, and don't really think Bishop Smith was speaking of the _Church_ having a secularist outlook, but of Canadian society as a whole doing so. We have a very religiously-diverse population, and Smith is right in his assessment. Personally--and please, don't take this as any sort of slight against my American Catholic brethren here--I'd still much rather live here in Canada than in the U.S., where it seems that fundamentalism is gaining an increasing foothold--not, again in my opinion, good for Catholics or anyone else with a brain. I'd rather be a Catholic in a liberal society and have to deal with people ignoring me than try to be one in a society where people thought my beliefs should be their business, like Independent Baptists or their ilk.
I should add that I'm not trying in any way to excuse abuses here--I in fact belong to a parish run by the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, so I adhere to a very conservative stripe of Catholicism. The "laity" here in Canada, btw, won't get involved to correct abuses--they'll be the Catholics of Vision type who want to throw out everything except their "pretty ritual". I'm sure the Holy Father will address this as he sees fit. But Bishop Smith is correct in giving the overall view of a secular society in Canada--a country in which the majority of citizens are not Catholic (although there may be a higher percentage here than in the U.S.).
I think it is appropriate that the bishops are addressed on a provincial basis. Quebec and Ontario are profoundly more secular than Alberta, my home province. And, frankly, the secularizing trend in Canadian society is directly related to the historical predominance of Eastern governance and the paradoxically regional federalism of Ottawa.
The Eastern episcopate should look to Bishop Henry for guidance; he can hardly be regarded as typical Canadian bishop given his frequent, public, and controversial apologetic and pastoral statements.
For a sampling, see his letters:
http://www.rcdiocese-calgary.ab....op/
articles.htm
Also, it never fails that when a post on an american Catholic blog deals with recalcitrant Canada, a canadian will comment with a critical comparison to the USA. Sigh. It grows so tiresome.
Liberal Canada only ignores Christian belief when it is silent, invisible, and out of the way. Otherwise, it is our enemy. For example, Bishop Henry has been called before the Human Rights Tribunal for the contents of one of the letters linked above.
Give me the fundamentalists! Give me some mormons! Give me the Southern Baptist Convention and 'inerrant' scripture! Please, just no more liberals.
And, if you really want to make me happy, annex Alberta and make us the 51st state.
Good points, Madame Sosostris. Do I know you? ;)
The "laity" here in Canada, btw, won't get involved to correct abuses--they'll be the Catholics of Vision type who want to throw out everything except their "pretty ritual".
This has not been my experience. I know of many laity who have courageously and in humble confidence in the teaching of the magisterium speak to their priests and bishops about abuses.
I'm not denying we have a problem with securalism in Canada but I think that's a problem pretty universal to Western society.
As for the Church itself being liberal in Canada, while there are "liberal" people in the Church I don't think we should be despairing. Rather than complain, let's pray and be the faithful laity defending the Bride of Christ.
The Canadian archdiocese I live in has half a dozen parishes with perpetual adoration, a seminary that is full and dozens of young women seriously discerning religious vocations, monthly Eucharistic adoration for young adults with several hundred people showing up, five ordinations to the priesthood this year, several new churches being built because our Catholic population is growing, etc... etc.. etc.. we're not dead yet.
The Canadian bishops are largely useless (except Bishop Henry).
That is all.
The Canadian bishops are largely useless
"If I were to meet a priest and an angel, I should salute the priest before I saluted the angel. The latter is the friend of God; but the priest holds His place. Saint Teresa kissed the ground where a priest had passed. When you see a priest, you should say, "There is he who made me a child of God, and opened Heaven to me by holy Baptism; he who purified me after I had sinned; who gives nourishment to my soul. " At the sight of a church tower, you may say, "What is there in that place?" "The Body of Our Lord. " "Why is He there?" "Because a priest has been there, and has said holy Mass."
-St. Jean Vianney
Let us remember to respect and pray for our priests and bishops. Even more so when we do not agree with them.
Here's a prayer you might want to use:
"Holy Cure of Ars, I pray for Father N my parish priest [Bishop N]. Intercede with God and his Holy Mother for him. He has received so many graces and yet responded to so few of them, he has been entrusted with such great a responsibilities for souls yet serves them so badly. I pray one thing, and ask you to join me in that prayer; that on the last day he might be saved from damnation, and through the pains of purgatory he might at last be giving the least place in Heaven and sit at the feet of those members of his flock who enjoy the vision of God's Glory. Amen."
I forget who it was but I once read a quote by a saint who said "There is no such thing as a bad priest [insert bishop here if you like], but only one for whom not enough prayers have been said."
I think you missed Kinyobe's point and took her comment way too seriously. I know her. She loves the Church and loves bishops. She just doesn't like heretics.
Good post from Longing! Yes, the Canadian mindset is perfectly content to let the state dictate values to its citizenry. Canadians tend to be a pacifist lot who are largely content to be pampered by the federalist spendthrifts. It's sad that so many people, including Catholics who by the way for the most part have succumbed to the secular culture, think nothing of questioning why society has abandoned the Christian principles by which we became a great country. Thank God for the odd brave bishop, such as Bishop Henry, that challenge us.
Cheers from Canada. Tony.
Longing, if we take Alberta (three major plusses: Fred Henry, oil, Albertans), can we give Massachussets to Canada?
No, keep Massachussetts.
Perhaps one could explain to me how the bishops have benefitted their dioceses by failing to stand up for the Faith. Pray for them if you like, don't put up with their weakness.
*applauds Kinyobe*
It's a deal on Massachussetts.
if you folks want to start trading land, by all means do so ... but do it on craigslist. ;-)
Very well and warmly-put, Dilexitprior.
I do think anyone who wishes to live in the States should live in the States, and people who feel more comfortable in Canada should live here. That seems fair and even-handed. I wasn't attempting to criticise the country--I was simply stating my own preferences. I also have nothing against Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, or any other gentle soul who comes to my door attempting to convert me, but eagerly wishing to speak about God. All are welcome. I just think it's probably a better bet for Catholics in the long run if they're living in a place where all these positions (and others, including those of secularists) are tolerated. We've not always done so well in the past in other circumstances. Of course, I'm Irish, so that's probably colouring my view right there . . . . :-)
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