AmericanPapist Comments
"Only I can exclude myself."
Stupidest. Statement. Ever.
How on earth does anybody argue with something like that?
Don't let the door hit you on the way out sweetheart!
She has excluded herself. Now it's the Vatican's job to give her what she's asked for: an notice of excommunication.
Yes, she has excluded herself.
A few other points:
Note, purely for the sake of this argument, how old she is - this stuff appeals to part of that age group and few other churchgoers.
The Bishop of Pittsburgh is smarter - simply noting (through a spokesman) the woman from his diocese already has excommunicated herself by doing this and there's no need for him to do anymore more. All she has to do to go to confession to come back.
++Milwaukee is playing right into this little group's and their secular-media cheering section's hands, making these people martyrs.
Today in my blog I added an entry from the GetReligion blog about the crap journalism on this. A combo of good old anti-Romanism (alway a big seller in historically Protestant America - remember Maria Monk?) on boosters thanks to modernism in general and slow local news on a summer's day. A reporter in Philadelphia is rabbiting on about a local woman, now 'a Catholic priest' celebrating 'Catholic Masses', blah blah... oh and by the way, cough, the Vatican and some jurisdictions - when in fact it's simply the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church and Catholicism in general! - don't recognise her orders. No word from anybody RC with any authority, just laudatory quotations from her young son about how cool he and his friends think it is.
Dishonest!
Friends, all that's happened is yet another chapter in the more than 100-year-old ecclesiastical sideshow of vagante clergy. Some elderly and middle-aged dissenters have left the Roman obedience and become clergy somewhere else, in some nebulous little denomination (not even really Old Catholic, though they also ordain women - they're only in Europe) with few real members.
Essentially they're Protestant ministers only without having to go through the interviews, training and exams that clergy in real denominations have to go through.
'Spite Rome' meets pretend church.
Nothing more.
there's no need for him to do anymore more should read: there's no need for him to do anything.
All she has to do to go to confession to come back should read: All she has to do to come back is go to confession.
And only without having to go through the interviews, training and exams that clergy in real denominations have to go through should read: only without the interviews, training and exams that clergy in real denominations have to go through.
Well, we can't expect delusional women to stop being delusional anytime soon! How sad. Almost funny, but definitely sad.
Unfortunately, I think the media will push even harder to make this lady seem more credible than she is. She's already a saint in their eyes.
She's already a saint in their eyes.
Not with those eyebrows, honey!
Maybe its Deans sticking together, But I fear Mr Soto may be right
Careful, young fogey. By what canon, pray tell, are women getting ordained automatically excommunicated?
Well, we can't expect delusional women to stop being delusional anytime soon! How sad. Almost funny, but definitely sad.
To be fair to these women in a way they're taking all the wrong stuff they've been taught since Vatican II (whether through bold lying or through innuendo) to a logical conclusion.
Careful, young fogey. By what canon, pray tell, are women getting ordained automatically excommunicated?
Take your pick. They've left communion with Rome by joining another church (now they're under the dodgy bishop who ordained them), which applies automatically regardless of one's sex whether one is ordained in the new church or not, and on top of that you can argue they're simulating sacraments.
I think I remember something about women in Germany who declared themselves priests. Does anyone know why these nuts did their things on a boat?
/If you want to leave the church the Protestants will accept you.
I think the (wrong) idea behind the boats is they think doing it that way means they're outside the jurisdiction of the local bishop. It doesn't matter - according to Rome they've joined another church and are excommunicated anyway.
And yes, they'd have more integrity if they became real Protestant ministers (and some of them have the theological degrees to do that) but 1) they'd lose the 'spite Rome' factor and thus not get attention and 2) real denominations have rules and requirements for ordination and expect their clergy to, well, do stuff, not just spite their old church. Boring, non-media-hogging stuff like serving real congregations.
Vagantes (fake denominations with bishops) have been ordaining women for some time now - this really isn't news.
BTW, most RCs who leave become completely irreligious not vagante or Protestant.
Hey, babe, thy name is termite. Meet the exterminator. Ha, ha, ha.
Young Fogey, being ordained by a bishop does not, in the slightest, put one under the authority of that bishop. You need to back up a bit so that your basically sound position is not undermined by some irrelevant, and erroneous, assertions about Church law. There is no question but that these women can be excommunicated. The question is, precisely, for what, and precisely, how. Some people are using "apostasy" and "heresy" as catch-all categories for Church-offenses. That is a mistake. Check out my http://www.canonlaw.info/blogarch05.htm, and scroll down to 5 July 2005.
Understood. Thanks.
"Only I can exclude myself"
Somebody needs to get her a history book about the Catholic Church. Sounds like Protestantitis to me.
Sadly, this reminds of the movie Office Space when the guy who's fired still shows up to work and refuses to acknowledge his termination.
Ed,
Could you clear something up. A reliable source was quoted as saying --paraphrase: not only are these women not ordained, but they have incurred automatic excommunication. Is this assertion wrong? Thanks
joe: i adress that, in links from my blog on this.
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