AmericanPapist Comments
If this happened in the reverse there would be calls for tolerance and people saying "One shouldn't burn flags of Islam, etc."
Note how no Catholics are calling for riots or crusades.
If BXVI makes them made wait until they find out about Popes Urban II and Innocent III
I read that he will visit Turkey and frankly I'm worried enough that I don't think it's a bad idea to petition the Vatican to cancel that visit. It seems to me that there's enough reason to believe that Pope Benedict's life could be in danger. I'm quite nervous about it.
Don't you just love the way they show how peaceful Islam can be?
St Michael the Archangel, pray for our Holy Father.
Yeah, nothing says "Religion of Peace" like burning the leader of another religion in effigy...
This kind of reaction is the antithesis of fides et ratio that the Holy Father was speaking of. We, his children, must stand by him now united in fervent prayer, truth, peace and love.
Keeping in mind that the Holy Father is probably one of the most brilliant minds alive, I refuse to believe he didn't foresee the reactions of the muslim world. If he is not a crazy lunatic (and I think we can rule that out), there must be a plan behind his actions. How about this: by positioning himself and causing this reaction, he forces the European (and other western) leaders to take a stand and declare themselves: are they for or against the pope?
So the Muslims are really proving that they're not violent by having a violent temper-tantrum???
I really hope the Pope takes extra precautions. There are plenty of crazy fanatics out there. Pray for the Pope!
If it wasn't so pathetically sad it would be uproariously funny, Muslim rage and prosteting including violent demonstrations because the Vicar of Christ spoke truth about the inherent agressive nature of Islam, the peaceful religion. Duh.
I guess we can thank God that Papa only made a remark and not a cartoon, eh?
Well, what's pitiful is that these crazy bastards more than likely don't read ENGLISH anyway and are probably getting a faulty translation into Arabic. So they are getting their turbans all in a twist b/c they think B16 actually made the (emperor's) comment/quote that is being attributed to him. He was QUOTING someone else, but these people seem to have the impression that B16 himself said it. They are so stupid. I mean, they are backwards and ignorant. It's pitiful.
I would sincerely prefer to see Muslims converted to the love of Christ. But if that can't happen then something else has to be done. We aren't dealing with rational people here.
I'm worried that some Moslem crackpot is going to try and assassinate our Holy Father....maybe he should hold off going to Turkey till things cool off.
Dearest Mother Mary, protect our Papa Benedict!
I fear very much for the Holy Father's saftey regarding the upcoming Turkey visit. I have very bad feelings about it. Remember that John Paul II was targeted for assassination in Manilla in '95 (WYD) by Al-Qaeda guys disguising themselves as priests to get near him, but thank God, that didn't happen. I would be much relieved if Pope Benedict didn't go..
Hey you all, if you're starting to feel too sad from all this jihad talk, take a 3 minute break and watch this. It's so sweet. Cute, cute, cute. We need some cuteness.
You will love this.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=9yGp84i8GpQ
Be not afraid! The Holy Father's welfare is in the Lord's Hands. Let us continue to pray for him, commending him to Our Lady's care.
From the Fox News article:
"The pope and Vatican proved to be Zionists and that they are far from Christianity, which does not differ from Islam. Both religions call for forgiveness, love and brotherhood," Shiite cleric Sheik Abdul-Kareem al-Ghazi said during a sermon in Iraq's second-largest city, Basra.
Forgiveness, love and brotherhood?
I keep the Holy Father in my prayers too. This is not good, it just is not.
God help those savages if they hurt a hair on our Papa's head.
Let's keep things in perspective!
Perhaps PapaRatzi is inviting a moment of reflection for the Bush Administration to reconsider their support for Turkey's entry into the EU and instead throw their weight behind the proposal of Fr Samir SJ?
If the government in Ankara is so offended by historical references to Constantinople (can't fathom why - they earn millions of tourist Euros promoting that same history) perhaps their sentiments would feel more at home in an M-EU (Middle East Union) more conducive of forgiveness, love and brotherhood a la Commune Iraq?
Unreasonable suggestion?
No more illogical than supposing that mere "democratic forces" will fix the profound lacuna in cultural commonwealth at Europe's southeastern border ... which was and remains the Vatican's position (perhaps a little Hagia Sophia will rub off on our secular materialists when they realize that the Pope's visit is a postponed fixture - last year's invitation extended by the Orthodox Christians was barred by the State: (John Allen NCR Vol 5 No 2)
"We're waiting for Pope Benedict at the end of November for the Feast of St. Andrew," Padovese said. "I believe he will come." Padovese confirmed something that has long been rumored, which is that the hold-up in terms of making the visit official comes from the Turkish civil government, not the Orthodox Patriarch of Constantinople, which is eager for the visit. It's the opposite of the situation in Russia, where Putin's government has said it has no problem with a papal visit, but it's blocked by the Russian Orthodox. Why is the Turkish government skittish? "In part, it has to do with the internal politics of Turkey," Padovese said. "The trip will not be accepted by all. Not everybody wants a dialogue with the Western world, or with the Christian church. There are radical circles within Islam that the government has to worry about," he said. Padovese said security is undoubtedly also a concern. I asked if Joseph Ratzinger's reservations about Turkey's admission to the European Union, expressed before he was elected pope, were also a factor. "If he comes, it would give him the chance to make his views a little more precise," Padovese said. "It was presented in the Turkish press like a complete refusal [of Turkey's candidacy], but it's more open than that." Padovese speculated that the government may be waiting to formally announce the invitation to the pope until after Oct. 3, when negotiating sessions on membership with the EU begin. If it seems clear from the outset that the negotiations are going well, it would be easier to manage any domestic opposition to the pope's arrival; further, inviting the pope at that time would be an ideal way for Turkey to demonstrate its openness to the West, as well as its capacity to handle security and logistics for the travel of major world leaders. Padovese also said that a papal trip would be a "major boost" to Patriarch Bartholomew of
"[T]here are radical circles within Islam"
Really?
In his speech (which was brilliant) B16 points out the original text was probably written by Manuel because more attention is given to recording his responses than his Muslim counterpart.
Wouldn't it be more likely that the Muslim's response was a violent and incoherent hissy-fit and therefore harder to write down?
I think Muslims should be more outraged that an adherent of Islam would actually try to engage a Christian in debate 600 years ago than get upset over a quote that is three times older than the United States.
It is not like you can see that kind of thing these days.
If only one good thing came of Islam then perhaps someone could actually try to rebut the statement rather than foam at the mouth...
Is it too much to ask for people to just read the speech and use some common sense and reasoning powers? I'm sure that God gave every human being these abilities of logical deducation, not just Catholics.
Hmmm. Of course the Catholic Church was itself just ALL sweetness and light in the 14th century.
Is there anything this guy could say that you wouldn't support? Anything? Anything you wouldn't equivocate away with a million and one clauses and rationalisations?
From a rational secular humanist's (SHOCK! HORROR! THE STUFF OF THE DEVIL) point of view, it just looks like one nasty old reactionary engaging in a my-doctrine-is-bigger-than-your-doctrine competition with other reactionaries. But somehow to you it's the words of a sage.
You think he should do some more rabble-rousing? You think this kind of garbage is productive?
Xtra, since when is violence the answer? Keep in mind that Hitler's book Mein Kampf is really popular in Turkey among the Muslims. You should read what the Pope actually said. He was quoting from someone else!
The truth is that Muslims know deep down that they can't justify violence, murder, and sin in the Name of God, and get away with it. Radical Muslims will do it anyway, because they're crazy.
"rational secular humanist"
There are three words for you that just don't go together. If it's truly rational, it wouldn't be secular humanist, and if it's truly humanist, it wouldn't be secular.
Xtra's comments, based on an ignorant Protestant historical caricature of the Church, show how it is not just Christians in Muslim lands who will be suffering in the wake of this but also Christians in the West who suffer under the capriciously self-serving world view of the Secularists.
I have had my fill of comments especially in the British press of Secularists so disenchanted with the concept of belief their only solution is to stop believing and thus stop thinking.
To which I say: bring it on.
Perhaps this as much a wake-up call for Christians as it is for Muslims. We need to evangelize more fervently.
Xtra, since when is violence the answer?
Uhhh.... when did I ever say it was or even come close to implying that it was!?
You should read what the Pope actually said. He was quoting from someone else!
Yes, I KNOW that. But he has a choice as to who and what he quotes. Here's the equivocation reflex kicking in. It's absurd. If he didn't think the words had some import or validity, he wouldn't have selected them to be highlighted, would he?
Radical Muslims will do it anyway, because they're crazy.
I'm not disagreeing at all.
From another post:-
Xtra's comments, based on an ignorant Protestant historical caricature of the Church
Oh COME ON. Read the history of the Catholic Church, and please don't be so ridiculous. It's hardly as if it's all universally benign. The Church itself doesn't deny this, why should you!?
As for Protestant black press, I KNOW that the various inquisitions for instance weren't as bloody as they were made about to be. But they were no picnic either.
Well, Catholics generally agree with the Pope. The quote was good. The question you're asking is the intent or object behind the quote, correct or appropriate?
I think he intended to point out their hypocrisy. ...and of course they proved it yet again.
"You think he should do some more rabble-rousing? You think this kind of garbage is productive?"
Yeah sure. I'm sure he'd love to die as a martyr in the hands of some Islamic fascist. He'd go straight to Heaven that way.
The Catholic Church has indirectly endorsed violence before, but never directly. Islam seems to completely and totally endorse violence, and that is the problem.
If he didn't think the words had some import or validity, he wouldn't have selected them to be highlighted, would he?
That's true.
Going, "oh he just was quoting someone else's opinion he doesn't really believe that," is an act of - gasp! - Political Correctness. No one here is a politician, so let's drop it. I see nothing wrong with the quote. Here it's again:
Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.
Keyword being: new. Remember that what Mohammed did, for the most part, was put his own little twist on Judeo-Christian beliefs. The twists - such as Jesus only being one prophet in a long line of prophets ending with Mohammed - and the completely new things - "such as [Mohammed's] command to spread by the sword the faith he preached" - are what the emperor condemned. According to him, if there is anything good and peaceful about Islam, it's the Judeo-Christian bits left in - and it certainly seems that the pope agrees with this sentiment. I personally don't know enough about Islam to reach a conclusion, but I do trust Pope Benedict XVI's judgement. If it's true, somebody had to say it; and I'm glad it was the vicar of Christ who did it.
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