AmericanPapist Comments
Thanks for sharing this story. As a member of the Georgetown community I would encourage you to learn more about the conversation happening on our campus instead of simply parsing soundbites or relying on student newspapers.
The fact is that there have been a couple of instances of students on our campus being harassed with homophobic slurs and even one incident in which a student was assaulted. Obviously as a Catholic Jesuit university there are tensions to confront and a balance that needs to be struck and Pres. DeGioia discussed this in an open forum on campus. I think it is important to place the comments you pulled at the end of your post into context, so here is the full passage:
In order to do this work, we will need to pay close attention to the nature of the work that will be done. At a Catholic and Jesuit university, a University administrator or Center cannot advocate for policies or practices that are counter to Catholic teaching. All work must be consistent with, and authentic to, our identity as a Catholic and Jesuit university. Part of my responsibility as an administrator, and ours as inheritors of this University, is to ensure that nothing can compromise the integrity of our mission and identity.
At the same time, at the heart of the Catholic tradition we find resources that profoundly support our work for LGBTQ students. I am referring, for example, to the Catholic insistence on the dignity and worth of each and every individual, the emphasis on social justice and multicultural understanding, and the Gospel call that we engage all of our sisters and brothers in a spirit of love. The character of our heritage supports the call to deepen the services and support we provide to LGBTQ students. Indeed, to bring some clarity to the term "advocacy," at a Catholic and Jesuit university we most certainly can "advocate" for LGBTQ students. We can and must advocate for respect, inclusion, understanding, safety, mentoring, dignity, growth and equal opportunity. We can and must advocate for freedom from prejudice, exclusion, discrimination, and homophobia.
This is extremely important work. In the various roles I have held at Georgetown over the years, I have taught, mentored, and worked with many LGBTQ students. I know that for all students, college is a period of extraordinary importance in the formation of direction, character and identity -- and that is certainly true for LGBTQ students. We need to provide more support for these students as they experience the growth and transitions and questioning of these years. Carefully defined, a center can be a vital part of that support.
Here is the full text of his remarks:
http://president.georgetown.edu/
...jd10242007.html
I do not know what sort of misunderstanding you thought would be cleared up by contextualizing the statements. It still sounds to me that the university is planning to advocate an agenda to "accept" homosexual activity while brazenly contradicting Church doctrine.
All the context did was to accentuate how far the university has to contort itself to make it look like it is not doing what it actually is doing. And that just makes it all the more pathetic -- like a bald guy with a comb over.
Hail Georgetown! Home of comb over theology!
Supporting people in self-destructive and sinful activities isn't compassion. Instead of supporting these people in a harmful lifestyle we should give them the truth that may set them free. That is how you authentically act in response to their intrinsic dignity as human beings. I would accept nothing less, and neither should the students of georgetown.
"with homophobic slurs and even one incident in which a student was assaulted."
Shame on you, Catholic theology! We all know that every bad thing that happens to homosexuals everywhere is because you won't accept them.
And what does "acceptance" mean? It means turning your city into the Folsom Street Fair and your parishes over to the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence. Because when you deal with a sainted and untouchable victim, you can never draw the line.
Of course, the assumption is always that the persons committing these horrible crimes are stalwart examples of Christian dogma just living their version of the gospel to its logical conclusion. Aside from the utter absurdity of the idea of good Christians lying in wait with tire irons and spray paint, the question that must be asked is: what about when homosexuals do it to themselves? You don't think there are angry young gay men willing to spray paint a few choice gay epithets on the car of one of their closeted friends? You don't think a spurned lover doesn't wait in the alley to clock his burly male ex in the back of the head? I know I would if I were gay because the last thing anyone would suspect in a crime against a gay man is another gay man.
Gay on gay crime is a misunderstood and not even really documented phenomenon because it is not considered a hate crime, but it does exist.
I do not know about you, but when priests start talking about acceptance of homosexuality, there are two things I want to hide: money and children.
"We can and must advocate for respect, inclusion, understanding, safety, mentoring, dignity, growth and equal opportunity."
Where's the part about advocating for truth in charity? That's what these students need.
Is it me, or . . . would the solution to homophobic slurs and assault(s) be to find the person(s) who made the slurs and the person(s) who committed the assault(s) and hold them accountable for their actions?
Individual accountability for bad conduct is a pretty good lesson to teach at a Catholic university.
Oh, and . . . Archbishop Wuerl? . . . anybody home? (Maybe someone should give him Bishop McManus' telephone number!)
It's important to remember GU Pride has been campaigning for a "resource center" for at least 7 years now; they wanted it to be modelled on the GU Women's Center. They were even contemplating, at one point, another lawsuit against Georgetown to get it, too (members of what would be GU Pride sued the university to have their group formed...the court found the university violated DC's non-discrimination laws). Given this context, in addition to the recent events, it doesn't surprise me at all that this is the route Georgetown's taking--it's the most convenient way to gain favor outside the Church, which is what really matters to those in charge.
How I miss the days of the inquisitions.
Slurs and assaults are morally offensive and unacceptable, and the University should take appropriate measures to prevent and combat them; and I would hope all Catholics could agree with that.
And "appropriate measures" do not include funding or sponsoring anything designed to contradict Church teaching; and I would hope all Catholics could agree with that.
"Oh, and . . . Archbishop Wuerl? . . . anybody home? (Maybe someone should give him Bishop McManus' telephone number!)"
Just remember, Pope Benedict appointed him to that position for a reason, and I don't think it was because of a lack of confidence in how the Archbishop was conducting himself in Pittsburgh.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again:
As horrible as many Jesuits are, Georgetown was lost forever when they made a layman president. Instead of having a Jesuit as the focal point of responsibility and criticism, a Jesuit who could have strong pressure brought upon him by his superiors, now they have a layman who thinks he's autonomous of Church teaching.
This sonofabitch proves it. What arrogance.
Reading over the comments...its rather upsetting the language that is being used. Christ at and drank with sinners...he pointed out their errors, but he never forgot charity towards them and His undying love for them.
Now as regards this matter, why is it so bad that those person who are homosexual not be able to have a support system? Persons who are homosexual are often vilinized among conservative Catholics because their inclination is seen as a choice. Beleive me, it is NOT a choice. Choice comes with a descision on how to live ones life, not your orientation. Do we know for certain that this center will not uphold Church teaching and encourage students who are homosexual to still love a holy and Christ-centered life? Rather than spewing hatred towards those persons "percieved" as sinners because of the special cross that Christ has given these persons, why not respect them and help them live out good lives by showing them the same christian charity that you would show Mother Theresa.
Its easy to be charitable to saints...but Christ wants us to be charitiable and love the sinner too.
Well, They feed those students' need. There two men need a bed for X(sorry), so just give them one bed.
As Chinese people, we highly respect The Jesuit because they brought the Gospel to Chinese, but now what are they doing? Give sinners a good place to sin more. I am a sinner, I do NOT need a doog place to sin more.
"Do we know for certain that this center will not uphold Church teaching and encourage students who are homosexual to still love a holy and Christ-centered life?"
Yes. Those demanding the center would not accept it on those terms. I can't speak for those on campus now, but when I was there a couple years back, most members of GU Pride and their ideological allies were generally openly hostile not only to Catholicism but pretty much anything not politically progressive. If we take the Women's Center as the model, it's fairly clear what intellectual foundation will be(http://www12.georgetown.edu/student-affairs/
womens/about.html).
Additionally, it isn't as if there aren't already a "support system," as there's a SafeZone program and Coordinator for LBGTQ resources in the administration already. Establishing a resource center would go beyond what most secular colleges provide.
What Georgetown is doing is choosing the Marxist-based dogmatism of the current American academy over Catholicism and using that as its governing philosophy on this issue.
Sorry mistake. I do NOT need a good (not doog :-P)place to sin more.
Beleive me, it is NOT a choice.
Having gay sex IS a choice even if same sex attractions may not be. Liberal "Catholics" seem not to completely comprehend the obvious, which probably means they are being disingenuous.
So you want a support group at Georgetown? Actually, what I think you and other liberal "Catholics" desire is a support group that supports homosexual acts, instead of one that states Catholic teaching.
We could test this theory. If Georgetown University actually wants a support group because they care so much about homosexuals, let's give them this support group that encourages homosexual Catholics to live chaste lives in accordance with Catholic teaching: http://www.couragerc.net/
Somehow I don't think liberal "Catholics" will want this kind of support group.
One more thing. Anonymous states:
Its easy to be charitable to saints...but Christ wants us to be charitiable and love the sinner too.
The difference between orthodox Catholics and liberal "Catholics" is that the former does love the sinner. The latter simply loves the sin.
The Georgetown President wants a homosexual support center to support the sin and give it some type of official sanction. Those opposed love the sinner and do not wish for them to lose their souls for engaging in disordered acts with impunity.
My friends, I am coming to you soon. I am not a priest, but we will have a voice. We will defend the Church from the gay-loving Heathens they call Jesuits. This president ought to ex-communicate himself. Just have the courage of Judas and go hang yourself to save us the trouble. You and the Bishop from San Francisco can go hang out together in California, aka Hell, and you can bring all your dandy little Episcopalian friends with you. We're not homo-phobes, we just don't like you, there is a difference, and you can't play the fear card. I think fear is more your burden than ours. You fags fear the reality that is Faith because it demands a committment that you cannot keep. We orient ourselves toward Christ, yet you orient yourselves toward man. Your orientation is still a choice, you've changed the vocabulary, but you haven't changed that it is still choice. We'll round you up, corral you, and put you away. Leave Georgetown to Catholics or leave Georgetown in a pine box. You can orient yourselves to whichever you choose!
See if we can practice "owning" the vocabulary again. It's not called Homosex. It's still called sodomy.
Yo, Geistesswiesenschaften - chill, brother (or sister). While you have the right idea, you have the wrong way of articulating your point. Using derogatory language and suggesting that someone hang themselves (a la Judas) is not only terribly uncharitable, it's contradictory to what you're saying. People who engage in homosexual acts are in grave danger and need to be told so. If they persist in choosing the path that takes them away from God, then that is ultimately up to them and they will have to answer on judgment day. In the meantime, they need prayer.
You can't tell someone to go kill themselves because they are sinful and want their sins to be acknowledged by the faithful. The thing is, the pope (and then the bishops - following his lead) needs to come out and give a briefing on all of these things that "liberal catholics" are confused about. There should be no distinction between Catholics - let's leave that to the Protestants. You either accept and believe or you don't.
So... is Georgetown going to institute a resource center for habitual dorm thieves? Chronic cheaters? Vandals? Free beer for alcoholic frat boys? Are we going to work on helping them establish their identities as criminal/convict students?
Or wouldn't it make more sense to teach all students with sin problems that they're ordinary people who've committed sins, who can be forgiven and go to sin no more?
Honestly, we have to do some kind of work on this "hate the sin" thing.
That should have been "Free beer and fake licenses for alcoholic fratboy drunk drivers?"
20:1 odds that if the Pope travels to Washington, DC following his trip to the UN, he will invite President DeGioia to stand right beside him at one of the official functions.
Any takers?
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