AmericanPapist Comments
I'm just curious, but where in the world are people going to Mass here? I've only been to Mass in basically two places. Southern New Hampshire/Eastern Massachusetts, and in the San Francisco bay area. In both places the sign of peace is very quiet and fairly dignified. Peopple just shake hand or hug for about 30 to 45 seconds,and then back to the Eucharistic prayer. The only time I've ever seen people really jump into the sign of peace was during a retreat with my Church's young adult's group, where it was all young adults and most of us all knew each other. I didn't think it was particuarly egregious because, again, it was a pretty small group, and it was kind of a special occasion.
Not that this is meant to be an argument against moving the sign of peace. I'm fine with whatever the Holy See choooses to do. I'm just curious where people are seeing this party atmosphere.
At my old parish Mass stops for several minutes for the sign of peace. People wander the aisles. There's backslapping, kissing chatting, and hugging. In fact, people go to St. Augsustine because they've been told that the SOP is an "experience" not to be missed.
Actually, I know it sounds anti-social, but one of my favorite things of Latin mass is the lack of this hand shaking stuff. Is that bad to say?
One place I sometimes go to daily mass, all 20 people there each have to hug every other one of the 20 people there. How many hugs it that? One lady gives everyone a real smacking kiss on the cheek. I had to ask her please not to do this to me as it made me uncomfortable. I don't think this is really appropriate at any time in the mass but it is particularly bad because people are milling around in the small chapel room, ignoring Jesus lying there on the altar, even going behind the altar to get to people to hug them, with no sense of sacred space at all.
Susan Peterson
Fr. Z has addressed this issue here: http://wdtprs.com/blog/2008/11/m...the-novus-ordo/
I think it is somewhat tragic that they are moving the Sign of Peace from its ages old location. Efforts should be made to repair what it has become (i.e. handshake time) and return solemnity to the Rite.
Michael,
At my church, the SOP can actually be quite uncomfortable. As others have noted, people wander up and down the aisle, approach the altar to offer the sign to the priest and anyone else up there, the members of the choir take an extended time to offer each other peace (and their placement next to the altar makes it difficult to maintain any sense of solemnity) and the noise level increases dramatically. It is really hard to teach children about reverence when it isn't practiced (particularly at this point in the Mass).
I wish the usual sign of peace would be "peace be with you," or some such thing. I don't like shacking hands, if I can avoid it.
I agree. People might mean well, and sharing a "kiss of peace" most surely is something the early Church did, but it's become (at least in my parish) like the 7th-inning stretch; it feels like "Wow, we've been kneeling for awhile, let's get up a move a bit and say hi to our friends and make plans for brunch". It always feels irreverent and out of place in the Liturgy of the Eucharist. I would love it they moved it up a lot!
My Dominican professor asserts that the kiss of peace came before the Offertory in the ancient Church - & currently in Eastern Catholic & Orthodox Churches - to honor the Lord's command for one to make peace with his brother before offering his gift at the altar (Matthew 5:23-24). However, it was never seen as party time/social hour like it often is now, but a very solemn ritual.
The Traditional Mass form may be ancient, but not the most ancient. Regardless, the Pope has the power to make this change, especially if he understands that it will better serve the salvation of souls.
The sign of peace is an optional gesture and in the TLM it was the simple greeting from the priest and the return greeting of the faithful to him---how and why this overstated hugging and shaking hands and all this started, I do not know. At one parish where some will go and hug everyone within several pews, I try to sit apart and avoid that familiarity. It is not a 'sign of peace'!
I would like to see the exaggerated motions removed completely. And my parish has a greet each other before Mass so it is redundant.
The “sign of peace” needs to be suppressed, not moved.
The happy-clappy types don’t like being “way too focused on the Lord in the sacrament.” People, you can NEVER be “too focused on the Lord in the sacrament.”
I’m starting to not participate in it at my parish. I simply fold my hands in prayer, concentrate on Him, and wait it out. No one has questioned me on this yet. If someone does, I’ll tell them.
At that point of the Mass, when we’re SECONDS away from uniting with our Eucharistic Lord, we need NO DISTRACTIONS to our Union with Him.
And wherever it might be in the Mass, the Hey! Howareya! style of the S.o.P. reinforces the idea that The Mass Is All About Us. That’s why it needs to be suppressed, not moved.
Mark G. made the great point that in the eastern rites of the church, the SOP is very reverentially done and it comes before the consecration. In a Maronite Catholic church in VA that I have often attended, the priest says "Peace to you oh holy alter of God, peace to the holy mysteries placed upon you" and then to the deacon as he gives the deacon the SOP, "Peace to you oh servant of the Holy Spirit." The deacon then gives the sign of peace to the ushers, who give the sign of peace to the congregation - and the people do not give the sign of peace to each other until they "receive the peace" from the alter via the priest-deacon-ushers. So it's a cool reminder that the peace of Christ is a supernatural thing (comes from the alter), plus a reminder that we should "make up with our brother" before the sacrifice, rather than after. Also, they don't shake hands in the "hearty handshake" sort of way; they actually do this thing where person A puts his/her hands together and person B puts their hands around person A's hands - kind of hard to visualize from a written description but it looks very reverent and sacred when you see it done.
Hmm. I actually don't mind the Sign of Peace all that much. In my parish, we generally shake hands or hug everyone around us, but it's unusual for anyone to move about. Sometimes the priest or the ministers will shake hands with the first pews, or something, but the whole thing lasts for two stanzas of any of four of five traditional songs, then everybody goes back to their place for Agnus Dei.
Of course, should the Holy Father, or even my Archbishop, lay down any further restrictions on the SoP, then I'll follow them, but I trust Cardinal Scheid to raise a red flag if the SoP -- or its current expression -- was *really* inappropriate... Otherwise I assume it's an adequate part of the Mass.
Mary, the hand gesture you wrote about: is it as though person A were folding his hands in prayer and person B wrapped his hands around them? In Spirit of the Liturgy, Ratzinger wrote that the folded-prayer hands was based on the gesture vassals (person A) made when they pledged allegieance to another (person B). Very interesting.
My parish's sign of peace isn't bad, but I've seen it done horribly. Especially bad is when the priest comes off the altar to shake everyone's hands. In one parish I visited, everyone came off the altar and shook every single person's hands.
I think this might be corrected indirectly if we could hear something about the proper position of the people during the Pater Noster. I hate all the superficial hand-holding, and it just lends itself to a sloppy and irreverent sign of peace.
I teach high school and I really dislike how our students are extremely chatty and irreverent during the SOP. I get they are teenagers, are tired of having to be quiet and pay attention (especially for the kids who aren't practicing Catholics) but it is distracting when I have to shush them. I often wish they would just cut it out all together.
I also dislike the holding of hands during the Our Father. To me, Mass is not the time to be touching other people. Maybe I'm just old fashioned? (And I'm only in my 20's!)
If by "sign of peace" they mean when the priest gives the sign of peace, I don't think that should be touched.
If by "sign of peace" they just mean when everyone shakes each other's hands, I think that should just be dumped altogether.
Priests should realize though that the 2nd sign of peace I mentioned is, in fact, optional.
Prior to my conversion, I attended an Assyrian Church of the East mass and was amazed at their S.O.P.
The priest would place his palms together as if in prayer and then kiss the sides of his index fingers. Keeping his hands together he'd hold them out to the deacon who would lightly place his hands over them and then draw them away.
The deacon would raise his hands, now pressed together in that same prayer posture, and reverently walk down the middle aisle. He'd kiss his hands in the manner of the priest and extend them to the person on the aisle-end of the pews. These people would turn to their neighbor and send the peace along. The deacon continued walking down the aisle, repeating this with each person on the aisle-end of the pew.
The overall effect was similar to the way we light our candles at an Easter vigil. This S.O.P was both highly formal and very beautiful. Moreover, it was solemn in a way that no handshake could rival.
I often think about that ritual during the free-for-all handshaking that I experience at daily mass.
Ed, your comment about the Spirit of the Liturgy in regard to the position of the hands was really interesting - I had never heard about that before. I'm not sure if the folded hand position has a slightly different meaning in the eastern world or if it is the same as in the west...just a thought. Oh, another thing that's really cool about the Maronite SOP is that on Sunday Masses (at the church I attended, anyway) they had an actual hymn about peace that they would sing from memory while they did the SOP, so it wasn't very easy to chat or get too goofy.
S. Wilkins, the Assyrian rite SOP sounds like almost the same ritual as in the Maronite rite except for the kissing of the hands - that sounds really cool.
But consider this perspective. In addition to being about our union with Christ, the Eucharist is about our union with one another, the union we all share within the Body of Christ. "The Eucharist makes the Church," Augustine said, and JP2 took that up beautifully in his encyclical Ecclesia de Eucharistia.
To me, the Sign of Peace, right where it is, is a perfect reminder of this. It says receiving Communion can never just be about "me and Jesus."
To me, moving the SOP away from Communion would be a loss, for this reason.
It's been several years so maybe I'm not remembering it correctly, and I am too lazy to look up in my old BCP, but I seem to remember it taking place earlier in the Eucharistic service in the Episcopal Church. Having worshipped at a very "high church" Episcopal church, this was just one of the things I had to get used to when I crossed the Tiber.
Many in my current parish simply stay kneeling in prayer -- people get the message they don't want to be disturbed. Since that results in NO exchanging of greetings/peace, it seems like moving it is a better approach, but then again, I'm not the Holy Father.
But come on, Joe and MAry CAtholic who have been doing it this way for decades won't be able to comprehend this change. It ought to be left the same.
On the other hand, socialization engenders the kind of communality that joins hearts and minds.
I have to agree with Eric and many others here--it is an age old place for the Sign of Peace, a very beautiful thing in its proper form. Why do the rest of the congregation have to shake hands at all?
While in seminary I had the opportunity to deacon during an Ambrosian Rite Mass. The SOP comes essentially between the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist. I found it much more meaningful (and scriptural) than its current placement in the Mass. It immediately reminded me of the passage from the Gospel of Matthew: "...if you bring your gift to the altar and there recall that your brother has anything against you, leave your gift there at the altar, go first and be reconciled with your brother, and then come and offer your gift" (5:23-24).
The current placement of the SOP breaks the flow of the liturgy. As a priest I find myself using the Agnus Dei as a way of calling people back to focus on the Mass rather than social hour.
I'm not sure they need to move the Pax. They just need to instruct people to do it as the Pope does it. Then the beauty and dignity of this ritual gesture becomes most apparent. The way it's done now is self-congratulatory drivel. Tom
I agree that the issue in any liturgical rite is doing things properly. In my parish, our pastor has instructed us in the homily about proper ways to handle the Pater Noster, the Sign of Peace, approaching the Eucharist to receive, the Nicene Creed, etc., but some of the parishioners still do whatever the heck they want. (He has also addressed dress code, proper reverence in the sacred space, and even posted a sign at the entrance to our sanctuary that says "Silence in the Sacred Space," but to no avail. It must be frustrating for him, as I know it is for me.
Barry: Receiving Communion, that is, unity in the Lord Jesus, is the most perfect unity we can achieve. Shaking hands during the Sign of Peace is just that: a sign, not a reality. It is surely more visible, in a sense, than the unity we can achieve with each other in the Eucharist, but it's nonetheless just a sign.
Mary, Ed, S. Wilkins: Thanks for that contribution. I mentioned the Eastern rite tradition, but have no first-hand experience. I often find myself jealous of our Eastern Catholic brothers.
NB: If you are faithful to the Christ's Church and her Tradition, you will be called much worse, I promise. It's a bitter cross to bear. I was recently told by an old man at my local parish that because I prefered solemn liturgies with beautiful hymns (I often attend the local TLM), I was rooted in the past, while he was only interested in the future.
On reflection, that was one of the nicest compliments I've ever received. Surely, we are all interested in the future...
I have to admit that for a long time, I didn't understand the fuss over the sign of peace. Shake your neighbor's hand, kiss your parents, smile at a friend who might be a few rows up. Takes a minute, no big deal. Even at the somewhat more "progressive" church I'd go to when I missed the last Mass at my parish, it only ever involved a few people crossing an aisle to wish peace to a friend and the priest shaking hands with parishoners in the front row. Then, when I moved, I attended Mass at the church closest to my new apartment. The Sign of Peace lasted 15 minutes, people wandered the aisles, the priest shook the hand of every single person in the church, people chit-chatted for extended periods of time. Turns out all those people I'd heard complaining online weren't exaggerating!
(As the Sign of Peace was the LEAST of the irregularities at that parish, I started taking a bus across town to a different church the very next week.)
I like the implication that the peace we share flows from the alter of God as, stated above, the Marionite liturgy emphasizes. To me it seems better to correct the abuses through catechesis then to eliminate such a beautiful sign.
I've been to masses where the priest decided to move the sign of peace on his own, presumably for this reason, to earlier in the mass. There is no context for it there, and I'd prefer nothing to doing it that way.
The rubrics forbid the priest the priest to leave the sanctuary and give the sign of peace to those in the pews. It is an abuse. So what else is new? Just add that to the numberless abuses practiced at the Catholic Church nearest you.
That is why I go to the Extraordinary Mass. I have gotten so cynical about the rubrics for the ordinary Mass. So what? It will change tomorrow and again tomorrow and I just don't care anymore about how the Bishops and their lackeys are trying to reinvent the wheel of liturgy in a most haphazard and scientific way. I am not interested if it hasn't been practiced for at least several hundred years. Next year they will forbid people praying before and after Mass in the Church. Next year it will be something else.
my 2 cents - put the sign of peace at the end of the penitental rite. then stop holding hands during the Our Father.
Mark G. -- But isn't that what sacraments are about? Putting signs and symbols to use to nourish our faith, to draw us to God, to save us? If we dismissed anything that's "just a sign," we'd end up eviscerating the entire liturgy. The fact that it's a sign speaks for its significance, not its insignificance.
I would consider this to be tampering with the liturgy. There is no precedent for moving the sign of peace. It has always been right where it is. Here is what should happen: remove the option to "offer one another" a sign of peace. It should be dignified sign, and it should be done on the altar, period.
"The peace of the Lord be with you always."
"And with your spirit."
FINIS.
In the early Church, the Sign of Peace came just before the Offertory.
"Having concluded the prayers, we greet one another with a kiss. Then there is brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of water and of watered wine." St. Justin Martyr, "First Apology", circa AD 150.
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