AmericanPapist Comments
I've been a Regnum Christi member for a couple of years now, and none of the priests or seminarians EVER speak about these things. They are very averse to criticizing anyone, superiors or otherwise; it has become part of their charism to speak of everyone in a charitable matter (not necessarily a bad thing, although sometimes uncalled for).
I have never understood some of the more secretive aspects of the Legion, such as their refusal to publish their constitutions to the public (or even to RC members), but the individual men are outstanding and highly dedicated to the Church and the Kingdom. They are holy priests, and do not deserve much of the criticism they endure.
Translated from
http://www.milenio.com/index.php...7/11/19/150204/
Benedict XVI Cancels Two Private Vows of the Legionaries of Christ
Vatican City - Vatican sources said today that Pope Benedict XVI personally requested the abolition of two special private vows professed by seminarians and priests of the Mexican religious congregation, the Legionaries of Christ.
They deal with promises related to internal aspects of the order. The first prevents any criticism by members of their superiors or of their decisions; the second prohibits religious from seeking positions within the congregation itself.
Vatican sources have told Notimex that the measure was taken by the Congregation for Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life following disciplinary actions in 2006 against Legionary founder, Marcial Maciel Degollado.
In May of that year the Apostolic See announced that the Mexican priest was being obliged to follow a "reserved life of prayer and penitence." This followed an investigation by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith "for crimes falling within the exclusive jurisdiction of this office."
Sources stated that the abolition of the private vows is a "measure parallel" to that of Maciel's sanction and that it was personally ordered by Benedict XVI and given to the current director of the Legionaries of Christ, Alvaro Corcuera.
These vows, which are included in the text of the congregation' s constitutions, specifically state that one is "never to desire, seek or scheme to acquire responsibilities or positions in the congregation for oneself or for others." They also state that no one may ever "criticize the outward actions of governance or the person of any director by written word or by any other means. If it is known for certain that a religious has broken this promise, [one must] inform his immediate superior."
According to a letter written by a former legionary, Emilio Bartolomé, and confirmed as being true by Vatican officials, Corcuera has carried out a series of visits to Legionary houses throughout the world. The purpose of these visits has been to inform superiors of the abolition of the vows and the "relaxation" of certain restrictions placed on seminarians, such as those related to visits with family members.
Previously restricted to a few times a year, visits between seminarians and their families will now be more regular and less restrictive as part of the pope's directives to the order.
The norms related to family visits were approved by the congregation' s Chapter General (or assembly) and cannot be changed by the director general. Only another Chapter General or the pontiff himself can modify them.
Sources conclude that, "since no Chapter General has taken place and the constitutions have not been modified, this confirms that it was a papal decision."
Notimex
I was a Legionary of Christ for nearly 14 years, and Legionaries OFTEN criticize others, especially those who do not agree with the Legion, even bishops. That is a fact. From my own ears.
I could sort of understand getting rid of the #2 vow regarding criticism, although the Legion is modeled after the military and you do not openly criticize leadership in the military. But someone help me out with why vow #1 would be abolished? -Never to desire, seek or scheme to obtain responsibilities or positions in the congregation for himself or others …This seems like a perfectly reasonable thing for a member of a religious order?
Doug, I agree. The Legion does (in general) great work. I think Benedict's interventions will allow it to better achieve its worthy goals.
Glenn J Favreau, thanks so much for the translation. Truly a great service to me and AmP readers.
And thanks for the other comments and personal experience, this helps me fill-in my picture of the situation.
Good work, gentleman.
The "big picture" is the hidden one, that no one sees. The Legion is all about 2 things: appearances and control. Other rules include things like always appear happy with everyone - peers, outsiders; and don't share negative information, difficulties with your peers OR your family. Because of these rules and so called formation, the Legion appears to be so wonderful. The deeper hidden reality is that it is a cult within the Catholic church, that strips its members of their freedom as persons (far beyond that of a proper vow of obedience, healthily and correctly understand). But no one who is an 'outsider' has much of a chance to penetrate the deception.
The first private vow reflects Maciel's paranoia of losing control. The second enables the LC to hide all its 'dirty laundry' -- stained with sexual abuse, among other things.
Doug: I was a hard-working member of RC for 7 years. I agree with what you say about the holiness and dedication of the priests. That is what drew me to the Movement. The tragedy is that their zeal is not serving the Church, but simply a means to grow RC apostolates and the Legion, which is not the same thing in the end.
Think seriously about where their time and energy is spent and why. That is why I left and work to reveal the darker side. The sincerity of the rank and file RC and LC priest are being used by the hierarchy of the Legion for something else. Even the Vatican realises that now.
I find the LC a little scary. Secrets are generally not healthy. Men love darkness...
A more recent article in the Mexican milenio newspaper, from the online edition, goes further to quote from what it calls the Mexican Office of the Legionaries of Christ:
"The Legionaries of Christ office in Mexico reported that because it is an internal document of the Legion which only affects the life of [its] seminarians and priests they will not make any public announcement. Besides, it is a document that came into effect several months ago."
http://www.milenio. com/mexico/ milenio/nota. asp?id=569712
As a former legionary I would comment that the fourth vow to not seek positions of authority is entirely abouting controlling the organisation. To be made a superior was seen to be a reward for behaviour that Maciel deemed favourable and a great deal of nepotism went on in the Legion. Likewise Priests who were more than suitable for role as a superior were overlooked, or demoted, if they fell out of Maciel's favour. These decisions were not made on suitability but on favourability.
I also think it important to note that a further sixth vow suddenly disappeared from the constitutions of the legion of christ in the 2000 edition. This also was made without a general chapter consultation yet included the same certificate of approbation granted to the Constituions from the 1980s.
This vow was taken by priests who were invited by the General Director to take it and was also taken secretly, so that only the GD and the witnesses knew who had taken it.
Aaron, what was the sixth vow?
IN a rush at the moment, here is the original spanish, it is a special vow of fidelity and charity, hopefully I will have time to translate it later:
Existe en la Congregación un voto especial de fidelidad y caridad:
1
El voto de fidelidad consiste en una consagración especial al Corazón Santísimo de Jesús, y compromete a quienes lo hacen a luchar de una forma incondicional: por el establecimiento del Reino de Cristo en el mundo a través del espíritu, doctrina y métodos de la Congregación; por la consolidación, robustecimiento y expansión de la Congregación, y por la conservación del genuino espíritu, doctrina y métodos de la misma de una forma amorosa, atenta y eficaz.
2
El voto de caridad compromete a vivir fielmente el espíritu de cuerpo, de caridad y de unión entre todos los miembros de la Congregación. Y compromete a quienes lo hacen a vigilar especialmente sus palabras, a evitar la crítica y la murmuración, a desechar todo particularismo e intriga, a crear un ambiente de estima a quienes vivan a su alrededor, a hablar siempre bien de todos ellos, a alabarlos y, cuando fuera necesario, a defenderlos con prudencia, firmeza y decisión ante propios y extraños.
319
Serán invitados por el Director General a pronunciar el voto de fidelidad y caridad aquellos sacerdotes que sobresalgan por un profundo conocimiento y práctica del espíritu, doctrina y metodología de la Congregación, por su amor a ella, por el testimonio dado en la observancia de las Constituciones, y por los dones de prudencia y consejo que el Señor les haya concedido para el gobierno. Deben tener treinta y cinco años de edad por lo menos, diez años de profesos, y haber colaborado activa, fiel y eficazmente en la vida y apostolado de la Congregación.
320
1
El Director General, después de haber examinado con su Consejo las investigaciones secretas realizadas sobre los posibles candidatos por el Comité de Investigación e Información del Equipo Técnico General de Consultoría, y las observaciones del Director Territorial y su Consejo sobre las mismas, envíe carta autógrafa invitando a emitir al voto de fidelidad y caridad a los sacerdotes considerados idóneos.
2
El candidato, recibida la invitación del Director General, solicite humildemente y por escrito la admisión al voto de fidelidad y caridad.
321
Es competencia exclusiva del Director General, con el consentimiento de su Consejo, invitar al voto de fidelidad y caridad.
322
La emisión del voto de fidelidad y caridad debe ir precedida por ocho días íntegros de ejercicios espirituales.
323
Hecha la invitación para el voto de fidelidad y caridad, en el plazo de tres meses, el candidato, avisando al Director Territorial y proporcionándole éste los medios oportunos, acuda personalmente a visitar al Director General, a hacer lo sejercicios espirituales en el lugar por él designado, a emitir el voto de fidelidad y caridad en sus manos y a recibir su bendición.
324
El voto de fidelidad y caridad lo recibe personalmente
I have been to Legion vocations retreats and have enjoyed them. They want me to visit again and I will. However, I fear joining this religious order becuase I feel I would lose freedoms that every human should have. I read the Regulations book (it was called something else) and it was saying stuff like how many pieces of toilet paper use (something like 5 sheets) and with what hand to serve yourself. This is extreme. Am I being eccentric? Should I join the Legion?
Paul- in a word, no. It is cult-like even if it is not a cult, and these kinds of rules are examples of that.
A quick translation of article 2 of the above vow:
The vow of charity requires those who take it to faithfully live an esprit de corps, charity and unity with all the members of the Congregation. And it requires those who make it to especially watch their words, to avoid criticism and gossip, to reject all particularism and schemeing, to create an atmosphere of esteem among all those around them, to speak always well of them, to praise them and, when necessary, to wisely defend them with firmness and decision in front of our own [members] and strangers.
Paul I regard the Legion of Christ to be a cult - NOT because of its religious aspects - its prayers, devotions and faith are mostly unquestionable, but I think it is cultish because of the strange rules which only exist to control the members and to remove all sense of self and individuality.
I believe these rules and control mechanisms exist in the legion because they come from Marcial Maciel, who shows many sypmtoms of a Narcissistic Complex - ie they were created or implemented by a sick man. Maciel had/s tendencies to drug dependency, paedophilia as well as having a messianic complex.
I would advise you to stay well clear of the Legion - who may wish to sue me for posting the above numbers from an old constitution - and to continue on your path to God with the help of the many many other great groups within the catholic church.
On the face of it. The first vow doesn't seem like a bad thing. As for family visits at some point a man has to grow up and stop running home to mama.
Dymphna: I must excuse your remarks as ignorant, because you could not possibly know the depth and extent of the Legion's depravity in shredding family bonds. This is not a question of not turning back, once the hand is laid to the plow, nor is it a question of loving father and mother more than Christ. It is a comprehensive effort by the Legion to insert itself as a wedge into families, so that seminarians and consecrated women are not told of serious illnesses and accidents in their families, they are told to lie to parents systematically, and they are told that parents are tools of the devil to destroy vocations. They are praised for eschewing family life which is simply shallow and less-worthy, they are monitored on all phone conversations and all letters are screened for the right disposition, and families are reduced to a contemptuous bother interfering with the True Vocation.
Spiritual direction in schools starts the process with "spiritual direction" of minors (forbidden by canon law) and the seeds are planted there. It continues in the high schools that house discerning young men and women, and it becomes nailed in upon consecration or profession.
No one, after that point "runs home to mama," but is simply allowed one brief, supervised visit each year (though some wait 2-3 years for that time at the Legion's behest) and there the family discovers that the robust young soul they entrusted to the Movement has been replaced by a automaton in love with Maciel.
Dymphna, please give these generous Catholic parents more credit when they indicate that there's something seriously wrong.
Glenn, Giselle and Aaron are regulars at REGAIN who left the LC or RC nearly 10 years ago and have pursued a personal on-line jihad to attack the Legion, RC, and anyone who has something non antagonistic to say.
They represent a minority view among former members - especially when making sweeping judgments about people and things they had zero personal experience with.
Neither Glenn nor Aaron had much direct experience of the RC Movement. Giselle obviously was never a Legionary.
I'm not arguing that they're evil or bad people. Just mistaken. They however ascribe evil intent on people they don't even know!
I can't argue - so don't - about what may or may not have happened to them personally. I wasn't there. But neither were THEY THERE in 90% of the houses, seminaries, schools, and other places where Legionaries worked and RC members lived. Glenn wasn't in ECYD. I was. Glenn wasn't in the USA or Mexico during the 1990s boom. I was. Aaron lived in 2 communities. He has zero experience of major LC apostolates or the RC. I do have wide experience. So when it comes to more general knowledge, I can speak to what I've seen - and it's much more than the above have seen.
Look to the charges: "the LC as all about appearance and control." That's quite a sweeping judgment.
One can fake a school or seminary, but not 100 schools, retreat centers, a dozen Universities, 3 towns (google CIDECO), a mission diocese in southern Mexico, lay catechists for half the dioceses of Mexico and the largest seminaries in the US and in Rome. Those are real accomplishments by real Legionaries and RC people who really love Christ, the Pope and the Church.
Just because you have a problem with a superior or two doesn't give you the right to bad mouth the work of thousands of people - or their motives. You can disagree with an action but to ascribe to it a motive "they just want to control" is to climb inside their soul and thus act like God.
Disliking someone is one thing - even justifiable at times. But to then say "therefore all fathers and brothers are controlled zombies or motivated by evil intentions" is a jump that can't be made.
As for control...You can't run a seminary with 500 seminaries without rules. Or a congregation with 2500 members from 40 different countries without guidelines, regulations, and norms. That is...not if you want to promote harmony and effective apostolic action. If that's not your goal, then of course, every rule is "all about control".
I ought to add that there are hundreds of former Legionary religious - as is the case with most religious orders and dioceses, there is an attrition rate for the Legion.
But it's important to note that by far the lion's share of us former religious have moved on either to the diocesan priesthood or to marriage. The critics don't seem to be the marrying type. Gives them plenty of time to surf the internet and spread rumors.
By far most of us do not share the ReGain view of the Legion or RC as some monstrous machine hell bent on corrupting the innocent and controlling their every move. For starters, it's IMPOSSIBLE for a handful of superiors to "monitor" every phone call and read every email, letter, etc. from home. That's long been a running internet myth. We're not talking a 2:1 ratio of superiors to subjects but a 10 to 1 ratio of novices or religious per superior. They wouldn't have time in the day to 'monitor' every phone or read every letter.
As for breaking up families... My 11 year experience didn't result in a broken family. Nor is this the case in most of the former members I know. People are human, we make mistakes. Not every mistake is "intentional" or some plot to harm people.
But ReGain regularly extrapolates from a few cases to the whole, accusing EVERY superior, vocational recruiter, spiritual director, etc. of being either a mindless drone or an evil control fiend. Now, how can they do that based on 10 year old personal experiences with at most a dozen people?
In the 1990's we professed religious Legionaries could receive visits from our folks once per month and go home once per year, and MORE often if they asked for permission. It's important to note here that most of us were living far from home (LC centers not being everywhere), so it's not like giving every brother free rein to use the community car to go home at any time would be practical or possible.
It's a fact that the Church is facing a vocation crisis among religious and priests. To not encourage vocations in this climate would be unethical. But even with the supposedly Legionary excessive zeal for recruits, far more men who attend Test Your Call retreats, the summer Candidacy, Novitiate and religious life have discerned their vocations to the diocesan life than have remained in the LC "just to keep the numbers high".
It's easy to level charges but try proving them. Real people are involved here - and for every horror story there are 10 or more stories of men who tried the life out, calmly discerned it wasn't for them, and moved on to other areas of life and service.
The horror stories are a) the exception and b) exaggerated - or unprovable: it's hardly fair to only air one side with full knowledge the accused won't respond in their defense.
Based on my personal experience, comments by Joe make a lot of sense. Thanks to the power of the internet, Regain and aficionados (Glenn, Giselle on this blog) have become the mouse that roared. They don't seem to be able to notice the positive evolution of the Legion and they continue to spew hatred, bitterness and venom thereby doing a pretty major disservice to the Church. All orders evolve after the death of the founder... rules become more relaxed, the specific cultural perspective of the founder becomes more diffused. Tell me what other organization does anything like the good that the Legion is doing within the Catholic Church? Regain and Giselle persist in being "nattering nabobs of negativity" losing sight of the forest for the trees. Thanks Joe for the sane perspective... and thanks Thomas for what seems to be rational comment.
Joe.. a few simple remarks.
One, most REGAIN members object to the Legion as a SYSTEM, with excess rules of control, not with particular members, exceptions being those highest in leadership or "public" figures.
Two, most centers and experiences of LC life ARE the same, across countries and across decades, precisely because of the detailed rules and norms, to be followed by ALL. Something like McDonalds. So yes, objections are relevant globally across the system.
Three, as a consequence of 1 & 2, particular "types" of abuse in the LC are far more common because of the harmful system setup.
Fourth, if you are going to acuse people here of having a 'personal jihad', then you might as well identify yourself as someone dedicated to leading your own 'counter-jihad'
You yourself are very narrow minded and unwilling to concede that problems may in fact be a) commmonplace and b) very serious. You have no real understanding of cults and indoctrination or systems of abuse. You simply 'cannot' believe because, frankly you are a shill, a sucker, someone who fell for their lies. You just don't get it - you never will. Most people who get a chance to read all the rules (which the LC does NOT want 'outsiders' to read because they won't 'understand' agree -- in sum total the spell C-U-L-T.
Some quotes from the hundreds of "system" rules:
9. The face of the legionary belongs to others. Always display happiness and serenity as a manifestation of inner richness. At the other extreme, avoid all sign of depression, insecurity or timidity. Do not display a worried, sad, melancholy or disgusted face, or show an exaggerated form of happiness.
13. Go up and down stairs without running and without precipitation, walking up one step at a time.
57. Do not expose others to animated states, difficulties or problems. Reserve those things for the persons designated to deal with them.
61. After visiting a center or apostolic work, always comment on the positive, stimulating and edifying aspects that you have been able to notice and never outwardly express to others the problems or negative aspects that you encounter.
65. When receiving family visits, always appear happy, cordial, attentive, grateful and satisfied with the vocation that God has granted you. After the visit, take the opportunity to once again generously offer up your most intimate affections and to strengthen your consecration to God. Behave in the same way when you visit them...
66. Do not fall into states of sadness or homesickness in your relationship with your family and do not become accustomed to discussing with family members your emotional state when you are experiencing depression or some unresolved difficulty so that you do not disturb them with problems that relate solely to your personal relationship with God and with the Legion.
611. Discretion and reserve
In the Legion the evangelical virtue of discretion in practiced, especially with outsiders, for reasons of prudence so that the self-preservation and self-defense of the congregation are bound together, for reasons of humility so the legionary may work with a great purity of intention, and for reasons of apostolic efficiency so that greater freedom of action might be enjoyed.
567. Out of love for the Legion and a sense of responsibility take care not to communicate to outsiders anything that might be misinterpreted about the diverse context of religious life in the Legion, anything that might be used against the Legion, anything which superiors have not authorized you to communicate, and anything that might imply scorn of the Legion.
568. Always maintain great self-control, even with your own colleagues, in order to avoid passing along negative or unnecessary news, or speaking of problems, learned through visits or by other means, of other religious, communities or apostolates with the goal of respecting charity, which is the source of a true spirit of peace and harmony in the Congregation and in its communities.
569. Never facilitate, without serious cause, oral or written distribution of reports or facts about legionaries, or writings of the Legion without authorization by superiors. Be very prudent and discreet in your comments so as not to unnecessarily damage the Legion.
570. Be shrewd when dealing with strangers. Respond with precision, moderation and discretion to questions they may ask, keeping in mind the good or evil they are capable of doing to the Legion and to each other in passing along a fact or expressing an opinion.
571. Be especially discreet in regard to anything that you may learn in an official capacity, including anything of an apostolic nature, or through dealings with secular members, or through interaction with superiors, bearing in mind that you are the keepers of a confidence that should not be betrayed.
572. Avoid dealing with or discussing personal problems with your companions. It is better to refer these problems to those whom God has designated to help you on your road to loyalty and satisfaction.
573. Be very careful to guard the custody of the writings and documents of the Legion (constitutions, letters from the founder, manuals, statutes, chapter decrees and communications, etc.). Do not leave them within the reach of strangers, always keeping them in designated places and not lending them out without authorization from the appropriate superiors.
494. No one shall visit outsiders in their homes, deal with them frequently or speak with them by telephone without justifiable reasons or for apostolic purposes and only with special or regular permission from the center’s director.
99. In accordance with a spirit of apostolic humility and evangelical discretion, avoid launching open campaigns or issuing publicity statements concerning the nature, goals, methods and apostolic activities of Regnum Christi. Never communicate to outsiders the number of its members nor give them lists of persons or works of the Movement.
103. Recruitment must happen in stages:
From friendliness (some manuals say "kindness" or "sympathy") to friendship.
From friendship to confidence.
From confidence to commitment.
From commitment to submission (total "surrender")
128. There are three levels in the second degree:
1. The first level is made up of those who, in addition to fulfilling the personal commitments of this degree to their spiritual lives, feel encouraged to lead an exemplary Christian life and are fully spiritually available to collaborate on those tasks of the Movement appropriate to their personal situations and conditions.
2. The second level is made up of those who, in addition to fulfilling the personal commitments of this degree to their spiritual lives, are truly available to serve the Movement in those tasks to which they are entrusted, through the contribution of time and personal effort to the Movement’s projects, and of aid and material goods according to the level of one’s personal generosity.
3. The third level is made up of those who, in addition to fulfilling the personal commitments of this degree to their spiritual lives, are totally available to serve the Movement in those tasks to which they are entrusted with their persons, their time and their means, after having prudently ensured - with sufficiency, but without excesses - their family’s financial situation.
NOTE JOE: REVIEWING MAIL IS THEIR JOB:
509. The center’s Director or Manager shall review all correspondence from members of the center and release that which he or she judges to be opportune. He or she will also review all the personal correspondence which members of the center receive in the apostolic works in which they are employed.
II. Relations with family
(For high school seminarians)
142. Before permitting visits to the family home on those occasions predetermined by chapter communication, the superior should always analyze the family environment, or any other environment that may be encountered, in such a way that he can take the necessary steps to safeguard the religious spirit of our charges.
(high school and novices)
143. It remains at the discretion of the territorial director, after consultations with the center’s rector or the novice instructor, whether or not to permit an apostolic, for serious reasons and in extraordinary cases, to attend the baptism, first communion or conf
This is just a small sample of many hundreds of rules that govern every aspect of an LC member's life.
The group as a whole is a very deceptive, manipulative 'cult' or 'cult-like' system founded by an ephebophile. REGAIN is about exposing it up to the light. I never would have joined had I realized what they really were. It is a caricature of religious life. It is very successful because it IS an effective, hyper-utilitarian system that recruits the best people it can, fires them up and uses them to grow the machine. All in the name of Christ, but it isn't Christian.
Dymphna - one problem with the first vow (as the 2nd) is the squeal clause - one is obligated by vow to report on others. I haven't heard of Catholics doing that before, have you?
Joe and Dymphna: Is Maciel a paedophile or not? You always skirt the foundational question. All the statutes and norms were set down by this man for a reason. His character matters.
I do wish you both peace and every blessing -- but I would also like justice for the many victims of this man and his ongoing creation.
Joe... always so bitter. I do not deny my www.exlegionaries.com involvement - but I am not involved with ReGain whatsoever. But thank you for bringing up both websites.
I was incoporated into the ECYD in 1993 and became a member of RC in 1993, and was a member for five years. As Maciel said - every Legionary is a member of Regnum Christi.
I do not generalise - I like to think that I am very specific. I also comment mostly on my own true experience.
You claim that I make "sweeping judgments" about people that I don't even know.
Well you have never met me - perhaps you could be more specific about what judgments I have made?
If anyone wants to know my online identity is exlc1998irish on the exlegionaries web site. There I speak quite specifically about my experiences.
Americanpapist - I apologise for the hijacking of this topic - we should get back to the topic in hand - have the fourth and fifth vows been suspended? Joe - being a member of RC would you care to elaborate your opinon on the matter? Have they? Haven't they? What if? What if not?
Or maybe you're not allowed to talk about it?
You are making a claim about "a system" based on your own interpretation of "the rules" (presuming the quotes are accurate) out of context.
But one can't do this without wide-ranging experiences of the actual organization and its people. That's my point; just because you disliked some individual does not necessarily mean all superiors are "just like him".
Alot of the above 'rules' are in the "so what" category of common courtesy, good manners variety. Others match pretty closely to how businesses and the military expects officers or employees to behave on company time or with company computers (which are monitored too in most cases).
It's possible your particular superior 10 to 15 years ago wasn't a good example of "the rules" - and in some cases those individuals are - like us - no longer in the Legion. I see alot of these issues then as individual and not systemic BECAUSE of my greater experience with more centers and in more countries than the average Regain person.
"Snitching" is not what the private vow was about. It's not like it's uber mature or Christian to gossip behind a superior's back, undermine his authority and good name and never do this to his face or report abuses up the chain of command. The vows didn't even cover public disagreements to a superior's face. Only back-biting, intrigue, calumny...
As for changes...well if the Pope wants to change anything about the Legion that's his business. They'll obey him. The Legion is still in foundation, it's still growing and changing. As is the RC. Neither are unchanging monoliths and neither are as organized and controlling as Regain would have us believe.
And for the foundational question: no, I don't believe he is a pedophile.
But neither I nor you folk where there 40-50 years ago. Others where and they weren't asked to testify because there was no trial.
So we have a case where the accusers make all the public charges - none of them provable - there's no cross examination, no witnesses to his defense allowed and a case dismissed as he slips into the twilight of his life. His name forever ruined by those who cannot prove their charges against him or his work but who continue to spread ill will everywhere they can, all the time.
And the hundreds of us who were Legionaries from the 1980s to the present go on quietly with our lives until we stumble on a thread like this and have to answer the challenge to both his and our good name.
I believe the good I've seen, and the good men and women I've known. If that makes me 'closeminded' then what is 'openmindedness' to you? Judging 'the system' as evil because you can't understand some rules or because your particular experience wasn't pleasant? Like I've said, those of us who were members and left without anger outnumber you 10 to 1. That means something about the 'system' and the actual individuals that make it 'go'.
Again sweeping comments - which individual/s do I not like?
Can you put the quotes into context? The reason that I quote the spirituality is precisely to back up what I say and what I have experienced. The fact that the Legion of Christ wants that material removed from the internet is telling - it proves that it is genuine.
Apart from anything - making public the spirituality can help the public decide for themselves about the legion, choosing to ignore any commentary.
The vows most certainly DID cover public disagreements with the superior - that never happened and would have been reprimanded:
CNP 15 Sep. 1956
i.In the first place, not to express externally, or in any manner whatsoever, be it orally, in writing or by gestures, anything which could damage respect for the person and the AUTHORITY of the superior...
And:
What the private vow encompasses regarding the superior:
i.The private vow guards from criticism all external criticism of not only the acts of governing and the authority of the superior, but also his entire human way of being: temperament, character, physical, intellectual, and moral defects, and his way of acting in anything outside of his exercise of authority.
ii.Therefore, the Superior SHOULD BE RESPECTED in any negative aspect.
Joe, would you like to comment on the removal of the vows? The only real "evidence" I consider so far is the last paragraph of the second milenio article mentioned above, although I first hear the rumours from what I consider to be a reliable source.
I imagine that as you are a Regnum Christi member, and in touch with some of your LC companions you might have some knowledge of whether or not it is true.
I don't like to get away from the topic in hand.
"It's possible your particular superior 10 to 15 years ago wasn't a good example of "the rules""
Well he's now the territorial director of europe... :o
Joe:
1. Where are your 2500 Legionaries (except on paper)?
2. Why do they need to be instructed on how to comb their hair and smile? The point is not "so what," but why hundreds of details managing their every waking moment.
3. How do you account for the tidal wave of exits? The discussion board has compiled lists of defectors, and the same few LC names seem to be managing a plethora of internet-based apostolates.
4. Why do you say of us, "They however ascribe evil intent on people they don't even know!" when you don't know who we know? Are you aware of the scores of distraught families I counsel each year? Do you know anything about me??
5. Are Juan Vaca and Jose Barba lying? They were there 40-50 years ago, they did testify (as did scores of others and over many months) and said that they lay night after night in Maciel's bed being molested -- are you calling them liars or simply ignorant?
6. What was the reason for the Vatican Communique? and reason for the dissolution of the vows? Whimsy on the part of B16? Is he a tool of the devil tormenting the Knights of Truth?
Overall, your pride in the large (but unsubstantiated) numbers is odd. If the numbers were to be believed, it would be more cause for concern, rather than less. Thankfully, most apostolates are smoke and mirrors -- simply internet fronts; the schools are disasters with high-turnovers both in students and staff. But the bravado is the juice, and there's plenty of that.
Interesting exchange going on here.
For what it's worth, i have many acquaintances and friends in RC and know their family members who have been in formation for the LC. I have visited the seminary in Rome, been to talks by LC priests, and had LC visitors to my home several times to raise funds. However, I have never been in the RC or LC. Why? Because eveytime I am around their priests and seminarians, something just seems wrong- too calculated, too clone-like, with no spontaneity, almost Stepford-like. They set off all my alarm bells. Am i in infallible in judging these things? Of course not But as a practicing physician for 23 years, I have learned to judge people and situations pretty well. And something about these guys just ain't right. The lay RC memebers I know, however, are fine as far as I can tell.
Whatever the debates going on here, I find it interesting that if the changes to the vows have been made, they have been made quietly, almost secretly.
The Dublin archdiocese have informed me they are unaware of any changes to the vows (LC have noivitiate and two schools in the diocese) and wonder where I heard the information.
I would like to know the circumstances of the removal of the vows, and the wording of the document that nulled them. It has been questioned whether the vows were approved as solemn vows in the first place.
Poor Old Joe!!! You make some positive comments about the Legion, with which I agree completely, and you are personally attacked by....the same old, same olds! When will you learn that you may not say anything positive about the LC on the web without generating uninformed blather by the likes of "questioner" (just look at the time he has for diatribes!), Giselle, Aaron and their kin? They are more vicious and controlling than the LC ever was! Kudos to the blog owner for allowing such space to be taken on his blog. The LC critics seem to be quite ignorant of religious rules in general. God forbid they ever looked at the "rules" of any well organized army! The LC has faults - but they are doing an extraordinary amount of good.. and they are mellowing as all new congregations eventually do. Why throw out the baby with the bathwater? As for the "evidence" against Fr. Maciel it is indeed very flimsy; some of the accusers have major skeletons in their closets and are, quite frankly, not credible. Those who were there and who contradict their distorted testimony simply get no airtime... and they are too busy living normal productive lives to spend hours and hours spewing venom on the web. You seem like a good man Joe. I for one appreciate your standing up to the ill informed bullies! God bless you and the owner of this site.
Personal attack? I have made no comment on the person of Joe or "his entire human way of being: temperament, character, physical, intellectual, and moral defects, and his way of acting." etc etc
This debate was hijacked by the age old argument that I and others are here speaking "against" the legion because of personal vendetta.
Simply not the case.
I disagree with Joe, at least about the Legion. I do not wish him any ill or harm - indeed I wish for him what I want for those closest to me - happiness and blessings.
I sincerely hope that I have not offended Joe, and I apologise if I have overstepped any mark.
Getting back to the topic of conversation, Joe - or American Druid or indeed anyone - do you not think it is significant that these vows have been removed from the Legion by the Pope?
The very same vows which I and my kin have publicly criticised these recent years?
Do you or Joe have any knowledge that might confirm their removal, or indeed confirm that this is all hearsay?
There is no doubting that Mons. Charles Scicluna personally travelled across the world and took one hundred or more testimonies as part of an investigation. (For the record I never met the man although I have written to him.)
Subsequent to his interviews - Marcial is living a life of silence and penance; the two private vows have been done away with; Legionary superiors are no longer habitually allowed to hear the confessions of their subordinates (which is a general religious rule - sorry Canon Law - the Legion never obeyed - talk about accusing me of being ignorant of religous rules... we weren't even allowed to read canon law freely in the Legion) and possibly a relaxation of rules regarding contact with the family (another as of yet unsubstantiated rumour).
Those are big changes and I'm sure the Legion is happy to spin them as the mellowing of a new congregation - but it is no coincidence that the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith made a formal investigation into complaints of a serious nature including abuse of the confessional and subsequently such important changes in the Legion have been made - NOT AT THE LEGION'S INSTIGATION but demanded by the Vatican.
Finally, American Druid, I think it is unfair that you claim that the men - some of whom I have met on more than one occasion - who were so viciously abused as chilren and teenagers have "major skeletons in their closets" without substance to back it up.
But I come to recognise ambiguity, slime campaigning and slick rhetoric to be the usual empty pro legion defence.
If it's unfair to obliquely suggest that the accusers aren't infallible or impeccable, and their motives aren't lily white, then it's also unfair for YOU and your side to accuse Fr Maciel of the worst sort of crimes without evidence.
After all, neither "side" knows for sure what happened 40-50 years ago.
Fr. Maciel has denied the charges.
There were 2 dozen or more other Legionaries who were contemporaries of the accusers. How many were interviewed under oath before the decision to shelve a trial was reached? I think zero.
If a prosecutor only takes the testimony of one side, decides to not press charges, and then issues a statement that reads "independent of the accused the group he founded is good" I don't see how the accusers can keep up the "they're all guilty" line.
Both sides will have opinions about Fr. Maciel, but neither of us can claim "fact" with respect to the accusation.
With respect to the LC/RC 'doxis' and/or 'praxis' - like with ANY group in the Church, we need to distinguish between what we personally have seen as opposed to general judgments and assessments about how things operate as a whole.
Alot of bad Christians doesn't make the Gospel false. It does hinder our evangelization but it's not a proof of the Gospel being a clever myth. Ditto with any group trying to live up to a code of conduct or spirituality. Not all Franciscans are as good as St. Francis. That doesn't make the OFMs a cult.
Unfortunately for the on-line public, the usual blog involves the LC being lambasted for some policy out of both historical and canonical context. The LC won't defend itself online, and most people don't know a Legionary for a 'reality check'. But winning by default is not the same thing as proving one's claim.
The proof is in the pudding. A bad tree can't produce good fruit.
While not all LC seminarians or RC members are saints, (and I'd hazard a guess that those of us who at one time were Legionaries weren't pefect either) there are alot of good men and women in the LC/RC and they're doing good work.
AFAIK, none of the on-line accusers have much if any personal experience with major RC apostolates and the people that run them, since most have been founded in the last 10 years. That ought to count for something too.
The recent ordinations in Rome and the recent visit by over 100 newly ordained bishops to the LC seminary ought to show in spades what the Holy See thinks about the Legion and RC. LC seminarians continue to study in Rome and serve the Pope.
It's hard to therefore claim that the LC is 'out of the mainstream' both theologically and formation wise when it gets down to brass tacks. The Holy See doesn't consider the LC/RC a cult or sinster group - and said so. And keeps saying so. That has to count for something.
I am in no way involved in LC or REgnum, but the folks I know who are have grown closer to God and His Church. This fact is true even if Maciel was a pederast and therefore a very serious sinner. I have been a lawyer for as long as Dr. Tucker has been a doc, but I don't think that's especially relevant.
Some interesting points Joe. And I agree there are many great people in the Legion - past and present.
I mean its not like the Legion is recruiting in the favelas or in areas with drug problems etc, they go to the "nice" places, to the wealthier areas - they recruit very capable and prepared members. And why not?
I myself was a legionary, I miss so many of my brothers - good people who were committed and energetic. It is sad that we all had to disappear in silence without being able to say goodbye. That was very hurtful - but thanks to the internet we have been able to be in touch again.
There are very few people in the legion that I would say I would find it hard to speak to - perhaps five or six out of the hundreds I knew.
I have no problem with the legionaries. I have problem with the Legion.
I have no problem with the spirituality - in the most part it is - as I have said - unquestionable - but I have problem with methodology, some "traditions" and a very unhealthy mindset.
RE naming cults, the church takes the point of view that an organisation is a cult or sect by judging its spirituality, its beliefs.
That is not where I am coming from - I believe it is a cult because of the psychological manipulation - which is extensively commented elsewhere.
Some of these practises are being changed by the Holy See. That says spades too.
I also fail to see the fruits of the Legion. What fruits?
Numbers?
Wealth?
But that is all that the legion stands for. All its apostolates are open means of captation - of funds and members. The Legion is self serving.
As for bishops visiting etc well everybody knows the Legion has the best waiters in town and who says no to free many course meals?
First of all, the LC is in debt. Having alot of big buildings means having alot of mortgages to pay off...
Secondly, recruitment, while normal for all groups, is not the end-all-and be all of most of the apostolates. You don't have to be in RC to get a degree at UPRA or IPS. They might invite a few to attend retreats but there's no quid pro quo or sine qua non requirement going on.
As for fruits, Aaron you're willing to believe all those good men you knew aren't producing ANY good fruits?
This is what I mean by bringing up the fact that virtually no one on Regain or exLegionaries has had much direct, personal experience with the lion's share of LC and RC apostolates. How can you claim there's no 'fruits' or it's all about money and recruitment when NONE of you ever worked in the administration side of things (I have) or in the actual apostolates (I have)?
No fruits? What do you call CIMME - the international diocesan seminaries in Rome and Brasil that have helped train hundreds of diocesan priests? Or ARA - the summer course for seminary formators that over the years has also helped hundreds of 3rd world priests? Or The Jerusalem center most recently entrusted to the LCs care by the Pope? Or a hundred schools - including at least 14 Mano Amiga schools serving the poor, 3 entire towns for the poor called CIDECOs, the full time lay missionaries (over 1000 OF THEM) who work in half the dioceses of Mexico and bordering countries? Un Kilo de Ayuda feeds the poor Aaron! Have you never heard of the Mega-Missions? Most of those involved are not in RC but they really do help the poor and the experience really does help them grow in their faith!
How about UPRA and the Bio-ethics college there? Or the missions in Q. Roo where the LCs care for over a million people? From earthquake recovery to Hurricane relief, they've been helping the poor for decades down there. That is fruit - real people doing really good things for the poor without getting paid for it and without 'recruiting' them.
It's a colossal lie to claim the LC doesn't help the poor (or to criticise their work with the rich as "only" to amass a fortune...after all, how can we help the poor if we don't have access to the rich???) It's also a lie to claim that the "only" motive for all apostolates is recruitment.
Not true. Not even close. They do recruit - as is natural for any group not ashamed of itself - but in all of the above and a dozen more apostolates besides, serving people irrespective of their 'potential' either economic or recruitment wise is what is happening. And you don't know it because you've never experienced it. You guys again extrapolate from your limited experience, add in some imagination and conclude something that's simply not true.
"Alot of the above 'rules' are in the 'so what' category of common courtesy, good manners variety. Others match pretty closely to how businesses and the military expects officers or employees to behave on company time or with company computers (which are monitored too in most cases)."
A key point is "on company time." With the LC, "company time" is 24/7. Everything I know about what it means to be human tells me that these rules are the product of a sick mind. I.e., I don't NEED to know anything about the flesh-and-blood LC. Just reading these rules is enough to tell me that whoever devised them is/was ill.
What disturbs me about the Legion is their continued defense of Maciel, even after he has been "invited to a reserved life of prayer and penance". This is the language that is used when a molesting priest is old or frail or insane and the Vatican doesn't want to put them through a trial. Maciel has the right to a trial if he wants one, though. The legion implies that Maciel's victims are lying, or tries the "one bad seed" defense", but we're talking about THE seed here, the founder.
About Mano Amiga: Didn't Milenio just have an article about Fr Rodriguez, LC, abusing 1-5 students at a Mano Amiga school?
The fruit? The local RC's here spread false innuendo about anyone who opposes them, including priests. False gossip about a priest is not a good fruit. Also, they recruit without being forthright about who they are. If you're being asked to be deceitful (ie practice "discretion") for the sake of the Kingdom, it's not the right kingdom.
I'm sorry Joe, but from my experience I cannot believe that the Legion is altruistic and I hold firm that every apostolate is for the benefit of the Legion above the benefit of those it "serves".
How much money does the Legion generate from the apostolates you mention?
What proportion of legionaries and legionary income goes to the missions?
The Legion asked me plenty of times for money, but never for the missions. In fact, never for any of the above programmes.
I distinctly remember my Father wanting to donate money to Quintana Roo missions and they told him HE COULD NOT. Money all went to central fund.
But that is not the debate here - we can take it elsewhere if you like.
Why do you think the Pope has removed the vows Joe? You seem to be avoiding the topic here.
Joe seems to be one of those ex-LC's who actually managed to get on with their lives and probably doesn't have the time to continue to obsess and wallow in negativity! Aaron and Jeannette are out of touch with current LC reality. I, personally, without being "involved" have seen the incredible missionary work being done by the LC and RC. The "mega missions" around Holy Week provide a fine example. Something like 80,00 young people get together and work in mission areas - they teach and apply their professional skills. I know people who participate; they come back renewed and they clearly do much good in the areas that they visit. If it's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness, maybe the likes of Aaron should channel his apparently boundless negative energy into something positive? Get over yourselves guys! You will see even greater changes in the Legion (private vows are not such a big deal) - all congregations in unity with the Pope evolve over time. Today's S.J.s do not resemble those of St. Ignatius time. As for Fr. Maciel, I have had access to some very direct sources who know the circumstances (and the accusers). I used to be on the negative side of the fence... now I am not so sure. I believe that at the very least major injustice is being done to Fr. Maciel. It is exceedingly arrogant of people who only have the word of the disgruntled bunch of accusers to propagate such venom. I don't know if the accusers are all wrong and lying; I find that hard to believe. But they have not been to a court... and it is most unusual for a pedophile to do something and then live a "clean" life for the following 30 years. Either way, the accusers deserve our charity.. as does the accused. The likes of Aaron and their hysteria harm the Church and betray their former companions. I for one am tired of the diatribes.
AD: being on the outside would mean that you miss the spiritual direction that takes mothers away from the home to run apostolates, that encourages fathers to undertake projects that consume them for weekends on end, that divides underage children from the grace-filled guidance of their parents, and asks consecrated women and seminarians to lie to their families about their plans and activities.
Being on the outside would have also kept you from knowing the five stages of captation that encompassed all friendships, so that every aquaintance of an RC member was put on a list for recruitment or solitations of one sort or another. You would have also missed how team life is so pervasive that all non-RC activities must be dropped, and every moment is ordered to "building Kingdom" (i.e. growing the Movement).
You admit you see the outside and like it. I have spent years on the inside living it, and now years on the outside helping shredded families to recover their loved ones and their faith. I refuse to allow you to dismiss them as disgruntled, obsessed people. If they seem obsessed to you, it may be because the Legion absorbed them to an unhealthy degree. They are indeed part of the fruit, remember.
AD: do you also criticise the victims of Father Porter and other paedophiles as people who "need to get on with their lives"? Or is it just this particular charlatan who has built enough to let you get past his depravity?
American Druid,
I would like nothing better than to get on with my life. Unfortunately, my pastor has invited a pervert-worshipping cult into my parish, and they have of course created strife among the parishioners, spread false innuendo about the previous pastor because he wouldn't let RC operate in the parish, snuck in "apostolates" without being forthright about being RC, and installed themselves into the rectory, with their trademarek 'incompetence with an aura of personal holiness' that comes across as arrogant. I for one (and quite a few other parishioners, none of whom want to use their name for fear of reprisals) am tired of their diatribes. Face it. The reason Regnum Christi doesn't admit that their K4J, LTP, YTM (now Mission Youth), Phases of Womanhood, etc groups are part of the Legion of Christ, is because the group has such a bad reputation. And it's creepy how you won't admit that Maciel is guilty.
Mega Missions are a massive means of recrutiment - not of the people who are visited but of those who give their time to go door to door.
Mass Incorporation to the Movement happens during the Mega Mission, it is used as a means of commitment to the RC.
This is deception because the new members are led to believe that they will do good work like go door to door in impoverished towns/areas and do some good.
But this only happens for one week of the year.
I have never criticised the Catholic Church, I have never discouraged people from their catholic faith.
If there is damage being done to the Church don't point the finger at me, but rather at the Legion.
Any more comments on why the pope has removed the vows? AD?
"The likes of Aaron and their hysteria harm the Church and betray their former companions."
COMMON LIE: to attack the Legion is to harm the Church.
NEWSFLASH: the Legion is not the Church. They are players within the Church. It is precisely those who are concerned for the health of the Church who are unsettled by the Legion's posturing.
Legionaries (present and past) are asked to take sides: either to support the accusers and those who have been hurt, or to trample on their suffering for the sake of growing the Legion. There is a heroic effort NOT to betray former companions by the members of ReGAIN hence the mission of the group. Those who ignore their plight are the ones guilty of betrayal.
(The word "betrayal" is constantly on the lips of supporters of Maciel -- handy reference for the promotors of "gospel charity.")
I am guessing that the "Pro" LC are not allowed to comment on the changes of the vows.
That wouldn't be like scientology at all?
A new article from mexican newspaper milenio online edition sheds more light on the topic:
(translation by a good friend)
Cancellation of vows to be part a global plan
The Pope Will Bring Order to the Legion
Only the Vatican can verify whether or not religious institutions are obeying papal orders.
December 4, 2007
It is the responsibility of the Vatican's Congregation for Consecrated Life to monitor compliance with papal directives by the religious order, the Legionaries of Christ, such as the one ordering the suspension of two of its private vows.
Vatican sources confirm that it is the sole responsibility of the Holy See to appoint possible visitators (inspectors) to certify compliance with pontifical directives in the Legion's houses in various parts of the world.
"The cancellation of the private vows is only one of several measures which appear to be part of a global plan by the pope to redirect the internal life of the Legion," sources say, "but they are not the only ones."
This follows published reports in the news media of actions by Benedict XVI requesting the cancellation of two special private vows, which the Mexican congregation's seminarians and priests profess.
These consist of promises related to the internal life of the order. The first prevents any sort of criticism by members of superiors or of their decisions. The second prohibits religious from coveting positions within the congregation itself.
The order was carried out by a Vatican office, the Congregation for Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, following disciplinary sanctions imposed in May, 2006 against the Legion's founder, Marcial Maciel Degollado.
In May of that year the Holy See informed the priest that he was being obliged to follow a "reserved life of prayer and penitence, renouncing all public ministry," following an inquiry by the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith into allegations of a sexual nature.
The same sources state that the the decision to abolish these vows is in fact an action which parallels the Maciel case, and was personally approved by the pontiff and communicated to the Legion's current director, Alvaro Corcuera.
Regarding apostolic visitators who might verify compliance, they admit that such action is not being contemplated at this time, but that such a decision is not being ruled out in the near future.
Another part of this global plan is the decision to relax certain seminary rules, such as those related to family visits.
Mexico City. Notimex
http://www.milenio.com/mexico/mi...a.asp?
id=573756
The anti-Legion folks crack me up.
If the LC were dissolved these nut jobs would move on to another strange-dark conspiracy theory.
Their opinions should be ignored. Nothing good comes from their incessant whining and misinformation.
Everyone can easily judge the character of the great LC priests they have known- good, holy, dedicated men. Loyal to their order and to the Church.
I honestly don't give a sh*t that Macial was their founder- he will receive his own due justice. But he should not be the black spot that stains the rest of the LC.
Stephen: what "cracks [you] up" warms the cockles of my heart. Not. Did the "great LC priests" give you that sense of charity? I find no humour in child molestation.
I find calling the folks who clmour for justice "nut jobs" rather charming. Not. It it weren't for the "nut jobs," the CDF wouldn't have pressed on with the case against the founder. It's all of a piece.
*Yawn*
Fr. Macial will receive what is due to him.
Everyone who was out for his head got it served on the silver platter.
Case closed.
And yet we still have these absurd conspiracy theorists running around, badmouthing good LC priests, calling the entire global order a cult...
It's just insane. I think you are crazy, 100% crazy. Come back to planet earth before you embarrass yourselves any further.
Let me see: You are always supposed to appear happy and 'normal'. You cannot share difficulties or negative information about the Legion with your peers or your family. Your access to media, phone use, and outside persons is tightly controlled. LC 'spirituality' and books of norms are kept secret. You may not attend a siblings wedding unless you have been ordained after 10-15 years of 'formation' and are working in the same country (but the reception is out). You are to obey hundreds of rules which you aren't told about before entering and many you won't even know before you profess vows, including the 2 private vows. Your superior is your spiritual director and 'recommended' confessor, contrary to Canon Law.
You're clearly right Stephen - it's not a cult and you're not a gullible idiot who doesn't know anything about life on the inside. Clearly a homosexual predator wouldn't found a controlling, secretive cult that could fool people.
Let's look at some regular DIOCESAN clergy regulations from the 1950s:
-Women relatives of the priest may not sit at the table with him while other clerics are present.
-Women who are not relatives of the cleric may not sit at table with him at any time
-Strictly forbidden to ride alone in a car with a woman
-Candidates for the priesthood must be guarded with the strictest vigilance by the local pastor
It goes on and on!
These are simply rules and regulations necessary to reinforce their vocation.
I have monitored the arguments of the anti-LC hystericists and all I find is a deep misunderstanding about the nature of a priestly vocation and commitment.
Personally, the entire thing smacks of pseudo-Donatism to me. The sins of the founder implicate the entire order? What is this mush? Surely no reasonable person could possibly go along with it.
700+ priests, 2500+ seminarians are all tainted by one man???????
By that argument, the entire cities of Boston and Los Angeles should be quarantined for their roles in the abuse scandals!
"700+ priests, 2500+ seminarians are all tainted by one man???????"
Where are they, Stephen? We've been looking at those stats for many years now. These priests don't exist. Actually, they have never existed. The Annuario numbers are submitted by the congregations themselves and taken on faith. It's a shell game, with the rules written by someone with lots to hide.
I'm no nutcase. But if you insist that I am (along with the rest of Regain) then you can chalk us up as fruit of the Legion -- we lived it.
All will be revealed in time. Peace.
The conspiracies never end with you people... So sad.
Stephen,
If I'm wrong, I'll look very silly, and might very well be sued by the Legion. If I'm right, you're defending a pervert-worshipping cult. I'm more than willing to risk being wrong in order to protect my children and those of my friends and other parishioners.
"Absurd" "crazy" "nutjobs" "misinformation" "incessant whining"
I keep hearing that the Legion's charism is charity, and I keep experiencing this peculiar form of LC/RC charity; they attack motives and character of their opponents in lieu of a substantive response.
Stephen makes so much sense. The naysayers get more irrational by the day. Do they have jobs? Where do they get the time to go after anyone who speaks well of the LC on any blog in cyberspace? Hear this: the accusations against Maciel are NOT proven; Renner (RIP) deliberately chose not to speak with any ex-LC who had anything good to say about the congregation - flawed journalism at best -; most of the negative diatribes are written by people who do not know the facts - including the vast majority of the Regain clan. This does not mean that Maciel is innocent - but he has not been proven guilty and the same group of accusers who have been at it for so many years have never gone to a court of law. Regain, contrary to the impression one might get from the web, does not speak for the majority of ex-LCs. Stephen has it right when he points out that the rules of religious life are pretty similar across congregations... the LC has done a bad job of supporting ex-LCs, no question. But Regain and supporters are only creating more division and delaying any sense of healing while giving the impression that all ex-LCs are a bunch of wounded ingrates. They are not. Some people, clearly feel very hurt by their experience with the LC/RC - they have my sympathy. They need healing - but their endless forays on the web to denigrate the Legion does not seem to be helping them to find peace. Meanwhile, they do a lot of damage to a great group of men and women. Now let me go check and see if the Legion is also responsible for global warming!
I just have to set the record straight. This was posted above
"Neither Glenn nor Aaron had much direct experience of the RC Movement"
I was assistant for the Regnum Chrisit while in Chile for three years as well as having duites at a schoool. And I worked for recruiting diocesan seminarians in Rome for the Regnum Chrisit. I also worked to recruit for the Regnum Christi in Bologna, Italy in 1996 and 1997.
Also, the statement about Gerald Renner above is false. He, as an experienced and professional journalist, interviewed many ex legionaries, including those who favor the Legion. I was even present at some of these interviews.
His attempts to interview current members of the Legion were refused from the very start of his investigation, well before any publication of the crimes of Marcial Maciel.
BTW, I was a superior in the Legion of Christ and I worked in the General Direction of the Legion in Rome for nearly two years. I worked with the ECYD in Spain, and with the ECYD and the RC for three years in Chile in formation programs and giving spiritual direction, as well as directing incorporation retreats. I was in the Legion of Christ for nearly 14 years. I do not consider myself an expert of the caliber of some ex members who spent 25 years in the Legion, but I do think that my experience did show me something about the system.
Hmmm, Stephan and American Druid post here and are rational and insightful people.
Giselle and Jeannette post here and they are "nut jobs" who must not be able to hold down jobs.
Remember: S & AD were never in the Movement; the "cranks" were. Around the world, in every apostolate, recruiting for the Legion as if our souls depended on it -- well, because the Legion told us that was so.
I've stated my case. Logical arguments combined with years of experience are housed at my site. Scores of ex-members were flown to Rome on the Vatican's dime to be deposed. The case goes on, sequential actions are being taken, and the peanut gallery here snorts and guffaws.
Folks: by the Legion's definition, Marcial Maciel is the Perfect Legionary. The methodology says so (the methodology he created). Until they disavow him, the congregation operates along corrupt lines.
I see no charity and very little genuine concern for the young people being formed by the Movement from these defenders of the Legion. All the more reason to reject this "gift" to the Church.
Giselle,
I was never in RC. I was invited to an organizational meeting for a Challenge group starting up, as I was looking for a more Catholic-friendly alternative to GS. I saw the ReGAIN articles and read the lcfacts website; it was a question of which side to believe? When I asked anti-lc questions, they were polite and answered my questions honestly, pointing out that the spirituality was helpful, etc. When I questioned the RC's, they immediately began to attack me, calling my motives and character into question. Just like the exlegionaries site warned me. I began cautioning other parents to research LC/RC before joining Challenge; though the RC parishioners were good Catholics, the higher organization seemed problematic. I felt I owed it to everyone on either side to learn as much as possible, since I was taking a position contrary to my pastor's. I found Maciel's own words, in the documents posted on line and several of his books, and that convinced me. Then the Vatican issued its communique. Then the Vatican forbade Fr. Maciel from attending his own (great?)uncle's canonization-this was the uncle that kicked him out of the seminary. Now the Vatican has ordered them to reform.
And I don't have a real job. I'm only a mother of eight.
Stephan and American Druid,
The following is a post I read from:
//www.speroforum.com/site/mbarticle.asp?id=10924
If this is true, how would that make you feel about the LC/RC movement?
“I was a member of RC for many years. I was very (100%) committed to it for a long time. I remember when I first heard stories about abuse in LC/RC and had witnessed things that troubled me, I had a panicky feeling that if these stories were true what would I do? I could not dare to believe the accusations. That would cause too big of a loss in my life. If I had to let go of RC I don’t know if I would know who I was. My very identity was tied to this movement. So I did what every member who is emotionally attached to RC/LC does; I rationalized every gnawing feeling I had. I found a way to blame the accusers. I let the mesmerizing words I heard from the LC priests drown out the voice of my conscience. But God did not let my peace from this “coping mechanism” last for long. He began to gradually reveal the reality of the situation. I was living in an illusion. I really thought that LC/RC were a foundation in my life. I associated this foundation with Christ. What I came to find out through much heartache was that my faith in RC/LC was built on sand. Through a series of events my eyes were opened to the truth and I began to question and object. At that point I became not useful to them any longer.(You exist for the sake of the movement. The movement does not exist for the sake of the soul) Once you become useless to them psychological abuse takes the place of the previous flattery that had been the Modus Operandi.One of the modern techniques that is used today by evil is inverted psychiatry(psychological abuse to destroy minds)and the LC priests are trained extensively in psychology. There are subtle threats to damage your reputation if you let the truth of what you have discovered be told; you are purposely isolated from your close friends; the LC priests purposely try to stir up jealousy between you and your friends; the LC priests try to provoke outbursts of anger by stirring up your pride or vanity; whisper campaigns are started against you to undermine your influence as you are indirectly pressed to go inactive. The legionaries are trained in emotional manipulation. The know exactly how to say the bare minimum with just the right look or sigh to plant seeds of doubt or to steer your very dear friends away from you. At the same time they appeal to the pride and vanity of your friends with flattery to secure an inordinate attachment to them and this is another potential source of division between the flattered friends and the rejected member. These are just a few aspects of the MO that is part of the methodology of the movement. It is not just the weakness of the priest. This is the way the more integrated priests of the LC are trained to force the useless member out of the movement. Stories like this are common in all parts of the country.
When some
Previous testimony continued:
"When someone is considered “useless” to RC/LC it is usually because that person has begun to catch on to the bigger picture of what is going on simultaneously with all the “good fruits.” Their conscience has begun to be very bothered over the very uncharitable way seemingly holy priests, consecrated women, and other formators treat certain people and this member begins to question and object to these sins against charity (the supposed “queen virtue” of the movement). This causes a gradual disintegration for the disillusioned member. That is when the methodology of “promote to remove,” “press to release,” and “isolate” come into play. As if that is not enough, the psychological abuse goes deeper. At the same time the LC priests cover their tracks legally by publicly offering the secretly blacklisted member aids to persevere in their RC vocation so it seems to the rank and file members that everything is being done out of charity to help this person who is struggling with their vocation. What the rank and file members do not see are the psychological abuses that are going on simultaneously. On a side note, The blacklisted member has never been directly told that they are being “kicked out” so he/she is very confused as he/she tries to read between the lines. Talk about evil. In God’s mercy, Christ was there to draw me closer to Him through all of this. I now know that my hope is in Him alone, a painful but important lesson. Many accusations like these are being investigated by the vatican.
The best way to defeat this evil, I believe, is to cooperate with God in using our suffering for the good of the Church. We are so lucky to have the charism of redemptive suffering available to us.
God willing, as we, the victims of LC/RC, grow in true charity by offering up our suffering(in union with Christ especially in the Mass) for the very ones who inflicted this on us,God will act and all will work for the good(Rom 8:28). This suffering can also be used for penance for our own personal sins as a purification(purgatory on earth). In the mean time we are given the opportunity to grow in the patience of God and true charity(love Him above all things and everyone else as He loves us). As we attend Mass and offer ourselves and our suffering with Him our hearts will begin to heal and we will be overcoming evil with good(Rom 12:21) Our suffering will not be in vain. It will be used for an eternal purpose. Our speaking out is very important as well. I found needed support from Regain as have many others. The isolation that is part of the psychological abuse of the legion is greatly overcome from the testimonies of Regain. The gates of hell will not prevail against the Church. Our Blessed Mother will help us to be a part of crushing the head of the serpent and to defeat him by “blood of the Lamb(Mass) and the word of their testimony”(regainnetwork).(Rev12:11)Let us unite together for this purpose. Thank you regain for letting
Last part of the testimony:
"Thank you regain for letting us know that we are not alone!!!
I am sorry for the anger that testimonies like this cause the well intentioned RC/LC members. But like we heard in the Gospel recently “Christ did not come to bring peace but division”(Luke 12:51-53).”
This is the kind of division that I believe He meant.
I stand by my statement about Renner. I have a bridge to sell you if you think he and Berry have not a clear anti-Catholic bias. Neither sides has convincing proof of Maciel's innocence or guilt. Don't you think it's time to get on with your lives? One post, from me that is willing to give Maciel the benefit of the doubt produces eight more anti-LC posts... from who (yawn!!) - Glenn and Giselle (Mr. & Mrs Regain), Amy and Jeannette - the same few people who with a dozen others hog the internet to spew their unresolved anger and bitterness - always in the name of charity and the bible. Try a vacation. Or therapy. (Word just coming in that the LC/RC are responsible for ice-storms in the Mid-west. Let's get the word out!
AD, I only state a fact about G.Renner. And now you bring up anti catholic bias? I thought the point was whether or not he in fact did or was at least interested or not in interviewing ex legionaries who had anything good to say about the Legion. You are a bit off track. If I did not know better, I would think maybe you are spewing.
So I hog the internet to spew unresolved anger and bitterness? And in the name of the bible? Where does that come from? Now it is all ad hominem with you?
And the idea of conspiracy is well taught to any Legionary: Masons, Jesuits, Communists, and Jews -- I recall very few of Marcial Maciel's talks which did not include this quartet of conspirators against the Legion.
While you consider getting on with your life, I hope you are willing to help those who may not be able to since they do not get the assistance they need when the leave the LC.
For all those who have posted here:
Two FACTS remain. The Holy Father has sanctioned Marcial Maciel in some way as a result of accusations of sexual abuse. The Holy Father has annulled the private vows of the Legion of Christ.
Those are two pretty big facts.
American Druid,
You didn't answer the question:
If this is true, how would that make you feel about the LC/RC movement?
Hey stephen, the diocesan rules you posted are pre vatican arent they?
Are they still enforced?
I find it very interesting that Maciel introduced the vow not to criticise any superior (inlcuding their moral defects) in 1956 when he was being investigated by the vatican.
He was forbidden to enter Rome and the boys and young men of the Legion were being interviewed by Vatican appointed investigators.
I also find it interesting that the Vatican has removed Maciel from public ministry (because he is innocent? I think not!) and has enforced him to live a life of penance and also removed these two vows. Coincidence?
Mexican press (above)suggests that the removal of the vows is liked to the vatican investigation that removed Maciel. That makes sense to me.
Any comments on that?
Or perhaps the Pope is another conspirationist?
From the writings of St. John of the Cross:
“Love effects a likeness between the lover and the object loved…He who loves a creature, then, is as low as that creature, and in some way even lower, because love not only equates, but even subjects the lover to the loved object. By the mere fact , then, that a man loves something, his soul becomes incapable of pure union and transformation in God… Until a man is purged of his attachments he will not be equipped to possess God, neither here below through the transformation of love, nor in heaven through the beatific vision… Love causes equality and likeness and even brings the lover lower than the object of his love… ”
Based on my own experiences and from what I have come to understand, I believe that during their years of formation the LC priest’s emotions were intentionally manipulated to secure an inordinate attachment to Fr. Maciel and his “inspired” methodology and they in turn, by following the methodology, purposely manipulate the emotions of the lay members (or potential members) to bring about the same type of inordinate attachment (infatuation) to themselves. In the measure that an RC member “loves”(idolizes) the LC priest they have regular contact with instead of God, will be the measure that they will blindly obey and follow all of that priest’s directives even if those directives are wrong. This explains how some of these good people can commit obvious acts against charity without a second thought. They have been so blinded by their attachment to the LC priest that they cannot “see the forest through the trees.” They have become “subject to the loved object,” the LC priest, who is also subject to a loved object, Fr. Maciel. It is like sins that are passed on from generation to generation in dysfunctional families. That is, I believe, where the dysfunction stems from. The LC priest and the movement become, in this case, and obstacle to true union with God.
So what about the good fruits? In the measure that a member’s “object of love” is truly God is the measure of good fruit that will result. The less the member is truly “integrated” to the movement the better chance they have of remaining or growing in purity of heart. This explains how there are many members who have been involved for many years and are not aware of the “dark side.” They are not truly integrated. They are more focused on God.
The problem is that the goal is the total integration of as many of the members as necessary to the methodology and the methodology is an obstacle to union with God; the same way that true union with God will be an obstacle to true inegration to the movement. We cannot serve two masters. That is why there is a very intentionally gradaul integration to progress in the movement. The goal is to keep as many of the members working with as pure of an intention as possible by keeping them in the dark so to speak. The more trustworthy (infatuated and blindly obedient, vulnerable) a member i
continued from the previous post...
The more trustworthy (infatuated and blindly obedient, vulnerable) a member is the more they will be shown and taught to use the aspects of the methodology that 99% of the rank and file members are not aware of. The very integrated LC have to be very selective about the RC members that they choose to reveal more of the methodology to. They have made mistakes in their judgement about this which is where many of these "disgruntled" ex members come from. These ex members were scandalized when the truth became more apparent and left the movement very disillusioned.
American Druid,
You say you aren't concerned about the LC and you don't find Maciel's writings to be a problem. Fine. I do, and so do many other people. After looking into this group very carefully, I have come to the conclusion that it is quite likely that the LC is a pervert-worshipping cult. Therefore, I have kept my children out of any LC/RC groups I know about, and have warned others about it. Most of them appreciate it, and come to a similar conclusion. It just isn't your place to ridicule me for this. I'm the mom, and you aren't. Also, your nastiness illustrates the RC's peculiar brand of "charity" quite nicely. It follows the template I've seen and heard elsewhere.
Informed friends tell me that the Legion is still approved by the Vatican and the Church. LC seem to have successful worldwide presence with more supporters than detractors. No one with any credibility has "condemned" Maciel's writings - if anything, I hear that they are quite bland and monotonous. Jeannette's assertion that "the LC is a pervert-worshipping cult" doesn't qualify as "nastiness"? The derogatory remarks about Fr. Corquera on ex-LC web sites are not nasty? Glenn comes across as a gentle soul when he accuses people who disagree with him of "spewing"? I apologize if I sounded nasty. And, correct, I don't "have a dog in this fight". My point of view is that of a concerned Catholic: I see mostly old people in Church, listening to very poor quality sermons, no vibrant activities to attract young people and Catholic schools that can't get past a plastic Jesus. So I say, thanks for the Legion with its vibrant apostolates and inspiring web and media presence and the gumption to stay on message. Sure, its good to keep them honest - but the Church still needs their contribution. Non-Catholics admire them. Maciel, rightly or wrongly, is totally isolated and is no longer a factor worth going on and on about. I read that changes are being made and rules relaxed. Why not give today's LC a break? Like it or not they are perhaps the most vibrant force in today's Church and the positives far outweigh the negatives. No, I'm not involved in the LC/RC movement. I'm just an American who hates it when a small group of people, perhaps with a reasonable grudge, badmouths and oppresses an entire group - whether it be a corporation, the US army or illegal immigrants. Sorry again if my passion seemed nasty.
And we are doing our best to explain to you that all that glitters ain't gold. The LC is largely a product of Maciel and deeply formed in his image and corrupted by him. Their appearances are very deceptive, designed to be so.
I'm sure you wish they were really as the appear to be, you hope they are, nevertheless, they are not. Sorry to burst the bubble, but LC 'reform' (if it is truly possible, which I doubt) has only begun. The cult mentality runs very deep.
"And we are doing our best to explain to you that all that glitters ain't gold."
Just like the Rex Deus, The Hiram Key, Messianic Legacy, The Holy Grail, and the Da Vinci Code "know" that Jesus survived crucifixion, married Mary Magdalene, had children and passed on "secret knowledge" some of our contributors "know" the hidden and arcane mysteries of the LC! They "now" that the "others" (LC) will never change. With little or no evidence, fantastic tales can be woven of what, in an alternate universe, "could" be true. "The cult mentality runs very deep." So choose your cult carefully - one man's "cult" is another man's "family".
"With little or no evidence..."
The evidence that Regain has offered is two-fold: there are the first-hand testimonies concerning molestation, lies and deception that members were forced to endure under obedience; second is revelation about the norms of the group.
AD dismisses the testimonies as coming from "disgruntled cranks," and yet the Legion is suing Regain for revealing the norms.
Well over 100 "disgruntled cranks" were deposed by the Vatican who has taken them seriously enough to sideline the founder and begin to amend the inner structure of the group. "With little or no evidence" is a weak argument considering that. Without Regain, the private vows would still stand and MM would still be the visible head of the group.
AD,
I said, "IF I'm right, then you're defending a pervert-worshipping cult". IF I'm right then I must warn others about this organization. I researched them for many months before coming to the conclusion that the LC/RC is a cult. It's not a conclusion that I often state, but I thought it appropriate in this context.
Here's Maciel's own words that helped convince me: "If Regnum Christi becomes an intimate part of what you are, if it is no longer something extra stuck on but becomes your very flesh and bone, you will never be able to turn your back on it without a thought, because you would feel a terrible wrenching, as if part of your body was torn away." Envoy II, letter 80, p. 186. This is not part of the lawsuit; it's from a book that I purchased.
Here's another, also from Envoy II: "Do not live outside the spirit of the Movement because then you will open up a chasm between God and yourselves. Never underrate it, because that would mean you undervalue God’s love which in it has given your an easy and fast road to holiness. Do not leave it because sooner or later you will find that it was your egotism, pride, vanity or sensuality you were feeding your lives on rather than God’s holy will." Letter 95, p. 288
Former members say these and other similar comments were used to pressure them to stay in. Like "If you say no to the Legion, you're saying no to God"
It is true that there are few of us willing to state our opposition to the LC publicly. It's amazing how many people have given me their support, but don't want their names used out of fear of retribution.
AD,
we are not spending our time posting on the internet because we are harboring a reasonable grudge or because we are bored. We have experienced real evil in a way that we did not expect. It was not the result of the fallen nature or human weakness of a few individuals. It is an intergral part of the methodology of the movement. It is VERY destructive. We believe that we have to speak out. Jesus spoke and acted out angrily against the money changers in the temple in His day and we are doing the same. It is our zeal for the Church and souls that motivates us to do this. We are no longer controlled by the private vows of the movement. We all know how difficult it is to accept what we are saying but if even one soul is prevented from suffering the way we did then it is worth it. We know that we are not going to convince you instantly. But we hope to plant seeds that will eventually, with the help of the Holy Spirit, lead to the acceptance of the truth. Then we can unite together and "hate what is evil, but hold fast to what is good." We can take the good fruit that we experienced and use it to directly benfit the real Kingdom of Christ and not the kingdom of Marciel Maciel. We can gather all the "misplaced fruits" and truly make a difference in the world. We are not oppressing an entire group. We are on the side of the people involved. We want them to be aware of what is going on right under their noses. We want them to have an informed conscience so that they can freely choose for themselves. We believe that 99% of them would not want to be involved with this movement if they knew the truth and from hindsight would be very grateful to know. Those are some of the reasons we are diligent in speaking out about this.
Forty-eight religious from the Legion of Christ were ordained to the priesthood Saturday in Rome.
Archbishop Luigi de Magistris, retired pro-major penitentiary, celebrated Saturday’s ordination Mass in the Basilica of St. Mary Major.
In addition to 12 new priests from the United States, the Legion of Christ’s first priests from Singapore and El Salvador were also ordained. The group also included 19 from Mexico, eight from Spain, four from Brazil, and one each from Chile, France and Germany.
A delegation came from Ivory Coast, the first African country where the Regnum Christi Movement is present. Regnum Christi is the lay apostolic movement associated with the Legionaries of Christ.
AD,
We are well aware of the difficulty in discerning whether or not this movement is from God. Time will deifinitely tell. We have been given a discernment that you have not yet been given. We were members in good standing and experienced the evil that is at the root. We know for certain that it is there. Remember, we are dealing with a diabolical deception. Satan is far more intelligent than we are and knows very well how to deceive the elect. But in his arrogance he always shows his tail. That is what we have seen. You are a victim of the deceptive propaganda that is being spun by the Legion. Where did you get your information for your last post? Let me guess: Zenit News or better yet, The Regnum Christi website? The way that you responded to reading it is exactly the way your emotions were intentionally manipulated to respond. Remember Satan can appear as an angel of the light. How else would he reach orthodox Catholics? They would not be deceived by the same tricks that those with the liberal bent would be deceived.
Persecution of the Church has taken many forms. "In former times Christians were incited to renounce Christ; now they are taught to deny Christ. Then they were forced, now they are taught; then violence was used, now it is deception; then one heard the shouts of the enemy; now, he prowls around, gentle and insinuating, it is difficult to recognize him. Everyone knows how he tried to force Christians to deny Christ: he tried to attract them to himself so that they would renounce him; but they confessed Christ and were crowned by him. Now they are taught to deny Christ by trickery, because he doesn't want them to realise that he is drawing them away from Christ" (St. Augustine, Commentaries on the Psalms, 39:1).
He draws us away from Christ by the way we treat others.
Christ would never treat people the way that MM/LC does in secret.He would never value them for their ability to bring in money or new members. He would never lie or deceive to evangelize. He would never believe that the end justifies the means. He would never psychologically abuse or intentionally manipulate our emotions to secure our obedience or our silence when we have "caught on." He wants us to respond out of FREEDOM and LOVE.
"False messiahs and false prophets will appear, performing signs and wonders so great as to mislead even the chosen if that were possible" (Matt 24:24).
I only have anecdotal evidence, and the fact that the Vatican has not renounced them , to back me up in my admiration for the Leggionaires and Regnum Christi. I have several friends with sons who have become Legionnaires. I have known quite a few Regnum Christi members. I know a few Leggionnaire priests. I am familiar with a number of the Regnum Christi apostolates. My sons have received great spiritual benefit from attending the RG summer camps, and making the suggested spiritual commitments. In all of this, admittedly 'light' contact, I have only met very holy and committed , Christ centered and compassionate priests, seminarians, novitiates, and lay apostles. Only good. Nothing untowards, oppressive, 'evil' or unholy.
If we are to know them by their works, we have many examples of good.
I can see where the attitude of the seminary towards families may need some correction (which apparantly has happened?) and that their protective instinct (to protect the innocence of their seminarians from the influence of outside) may be a cause for resentment and suspicion. Many orders have continual struggles to avoid going too far in one direction or another, and need corrections from time to time. I look at this whole discussion as something better done by Rome, with faith in those that God has put here to guide us, and with prayer for the best intentions of the Leggionaires and Regnum Christi.
If Rome is not discrediting them, why should I? Why should any person ?
I apologize for the stupid spelling. !!
"I look at this whole discussion as something better done by Rome, with faith in those that God has put here to guide us, and with prayer for the best intentions of the Leggionaires and Regnum Christi.
If Rome is not discrediting them, why should I? Why should any person ?"
The CDF is investigating many accusations and has begun a series of actions to limit or curtail their activity. In the mean time, MM/LC have only increased their recruiting and fund raising knowing that their days are numbered. They want to pull as many unsuspecting Catholics as possible into their ranks. (I worry about a future shcism)We who are aware of the "dark side" of the LC are trying to prevent as many people as possible from making the same mistakes that we did. We hope that people will choose from the other and authentic means of growing in holiness and serving the Church.The following is taken from
John Paul II's book
"RISE, LET US BE ON OUR WAY"
Warner Books, first printing, September 2004
“As a bishop I supported many different lay activities. They included, for example, the Apostolate to Families, the Kler-med seminars for clerics and medical students, the Institute for the Family. Before the war, Catholic Action was very active in Poland….I was also chairman of the Commission for the Lay Apostolate in the Polish episcopate…
[The following passage is quoted complete and unabridged, pp. 117-118]:
I also supported various new initiatives in which I could sense the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Only when I came to Rome did I encounter the Neo-catechumenate. The same was true of Opus Dei, which I established as a personal prelature in 1982. These two ecclesial movements call forth a great commitment from the laity. They both originated in Spain, a country that often throughout history has been the source of providential inspirations for spiritual renewal. In October 2002 I had the joy of canonizing Josemaría Escrivá de Balaguer, the founder of Opus Dei, a zealous priest, and an apostle to the laity in modern times.
During the years of my ministry in Kraków, I always felt spiritually close to the Focolare movement. I admired their intense apostolic activity, directed towards helping the Church to become ever more ‘the home and school of communion’. Since I was called to the See of Peter, I have often received Chiara Lubich, together with representatives of the various branches of the Focolare movement. Another movement to have emerged from the vitality of the Italian Church is Communione e Liberazione, promoted by Monsignor Luigi Giussani.
There are many more lay initiatives that I have come to know in recent years. In France, Jean Vanier’s L’Arche and Foi et Lumière come to mind. There are others, but it is impossible to name the all. For now, I will just say that I support them, and remember them in my prayers. I have great hopes for them and above all I wish that through them Christ’s call might be heard and answered: ‘You go i
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"I have great hopes for them and above all I wish that through them Christ’s call might be heard and answered: ‘You go into my vineyard too’ (Matt, 20,2). I was thinking of them when I wrote the Apostolic Exhortation ‘Christifideles laici’: ‘The call is a concern not only of Pastors, clergy, and men and women religious. The call is addressed to everyone: lay people as well are personally called by the Lord, from whom they receive mission on behalf of the Church and the world.’ “
There is no mention of Fr. Maciel or the Regnum Christi. Does this absence ‘stick out like a sore thumb’, or as the Mexican writer Carmen Aristegui might say, ‘brilla por su ausencia’ [shines by its absence]? That is for the reader to study and judge.
I think that the in the USA have a very radical point of view. Maybe because it is founded in a puritan roots... I agree that they may need to say and apology but why are you so interestes to know evey detail of Fr Maciel privete life... it´s true he was a public personality but for us catholics we have to remember the lord`s words: "with the measure you measure will be measured·" more and less it says ... Our mesure it´s our forgiveness... The victims need help to find Cristian forgiveness and Cristian help... The tresure that we have as christians it´s forgiveness... the muslims do not have this commandment,we do... I do not justify the sin commited but as catholics we never reject the sinner. The lord did not do it why we have to do so? Then the rest of the legionaries are suffering because all this situation. It´s not their fault... who will care about all the psicological damage the media is doing in their lives? If we care about the need of priest, let´s try to care about them. May God give us wisdow above all in the USA.
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