AmericanPapist Comments
I see in this poll evidence that, while most Catholics are woefully underinformed politically, when they DO finaly get the picture, they shun pro-aborts.
The most recent edition of left-leaning Commonweal magazine featured a glowing puff piece on Hillary penned by a prominent "Catholic" theologian by the name of Leslie Tentler who teaches at Catholic U. She gushed how happy she is to vote for Obama.
She admited being thrilled by his skin color, but also by his liberal bona fides. And abortion? Not his problem according to her. So it's not her problem either. She feels completely at ease voting for him this fall...and she's a "Catholic theologian".
So no matter how vociferous a proponent of abortion at all costs he happens to be. No matter that he's on record favoring infanticide. So long as the result is a dead baby, a woman "not punished with a baby", he's cool with letting abortion survivors (miracle babies) die and so is she, apparently.
But she's a good person. Why? Well, because of all her OTHER social, fiscal, and foreign policy preferences you see.
How many other "Catholics" share her emotion I wonder? For them, it's the coming Socialism that counts - the end that justifies all the political and social means no matter how bloody...
But don't get her wrong. Killing the completely defenseless, completely innocent is fine. It's the poor here at home (all of whom would qualify as "middle class" anywhere else) and the poor Iraqis abroad (whom she wants to abandon to Al Qaeda or Iran as soon as possible) that motivate her sense of moral superiority.
By being "against the war" she and those like her achieve some sort of moral highground regardless of the actual effect of a US pull out of Iraq (or any OTHER nation we're currently keeping garrisons in).
By being "for the poor" by promoting more socialism - run by her friends of course - she gets credit for all good works quite apart from the actual results that are daily on parade in all the major cities her friends control, like Washington DC where poverty, crime, failing schools, and decaying infrastructure continue to fester despite high taxes and a Democratic stranglehold on all political power.
For these people - all of whom consider themselves 'brilliant' - abortion is at best a distraction from "the real problems facing us" like denying felons the right to vote.
What's needed is to hold these people's feet to the fire of the heartlessness of their positions: pro-abortion people are complete hypocrites to be against war, capital punishment, or 'vigillante justice' inasmuch as abortion is the private license to kill the absolutely innocent and defenseless among us whereas war and capital punishment are not.
What makes war bad? Is it not the killing of fellow human beings? Ditto with Capital punishment.
Whats wrong with poverty? Is it not the loss of dignity and other ills that affect fellow human beings?
What's the problem with pollution, global warming, and a host of other issues if not the negative affects these might have on fellow human beings health?
On what ethic
Oops...got cut off.
....so if all those things are bad - because they affect people negatively, how can she and other "Catholics" be ho-hum about abortion?
Unless it's not people qua people that matter but the CONVENIENCE of just SOME people, her people, those she approves of.
How ever you look at it though, one cannot be simultaneously a good Christian and ho-hum about abortion.
Apples to apples, all human beings have the same dignity before God, the abortion holocaust is far worse than any war the USA has ever fought. The only differences are the cost in dollars, who does the killing, and whom is killed.
Would Catholic U - or any other Catholic institution be ho-hum about a professor just hunky-dory about a politician in favor of slavery? How about a politician in favor of pedophilia or child torture? Or a man who personally kills kittens for sport?
The normalcy, complacency, lack of passion she exibits towards this greatest evil imaginable - far and away beyond any other our world has ever conducted.... ought to shake us all up. But it doesn't. At least, it doesn't shake the Baby Boomers much.
Us Gen-Xers on the other hand...
Does anyone know if any Catholic priests will be involved in the prayer service that the DNC is holding in Denver?
Ohh Dr. Tentler. She holds the Knights of Columbus Chair in the history department at CUA. So she is a historian not a theologian. I had her last year.
Though I was often disagreeing with her in class we actually hit it off rather well. Despite this she is a pretty good professor and welcomed vigorous discussion in her classroom.
One can be a good Catholic, still vote for Obama, and not agree with some of his positions. I'd rather vote for him than McCain any day. I am ready for some new blood. In our country, one man doesnt' get all the power - that's why we elect congress peoples. I wish Catholics would get informed and make informed and faithfilled decisions and not make their choice soley based on the abortion stance of a politician. I know as a Catholic I must and will defend the right to life at all times, but my vote in November will not make me a "bad" Catholic or say that I support abortion. We will never agree with 100% of any politicians views and therefore we need to live our faith in word and deed. May the Holy Spirit guide each of us to make wise, informed, and frutiful decisions in this coming election.
"I know as a Catholic I must and will defend the right to life at all times..."
Your support of Obama gives the lie to that statement.
TAJ,
How can you say that a vote for Obama does not indicate that you support abortion? Obama is the strongest supporter of abortion among presidential candidates to date. Indeed, may the Holy Spirit guide us as we vote in November.
I agree 100% with Taj. Abortion is not the sole issue when it comes to this election. Let's face it: no matter how much we'd all love it, Pope Benedict is not running for President of the United States, so like it or not, we're not going to have that perfect Catholic (which everyone here seems to be) to vote for.
Look. I think abortion is a horrible, horrible thing. But it's not going to end because some brave old white man signs it into law. Does that mean Roe v. Wade shouldn't be overturned? No. But I think we should all remember that for the past 8 years we've had a "pro-life" president, and last I checked, abortion is still around (and another 4000+ soldiers fighting in a horrible war that never should have started in the first place).
No Catholic who has a good heart and good intentions should be labeled a heretic, or told they're going to hell (and I have been told that) because they're voting for Obama.
How do you lessen abortion in this country? You make the quality of life better so they don't need to happen as frequently or with such abandon. Personally, I don't believe McCain will take us there, but vote for the person you think will do so...and not just someone who'll promise to "end" abortion - and then turn around and change his mind after he's sitting in the seat.
Rationalization on display.
Again, it comes down to formal cooperation with evil, which Obama is on abortion--and voting for him even though one opposes abortion makes one a material cooperator with evil whatever their intent.
The no-perfect-candidate argument is a bunch of smoke-and-mirrors. Candidates formally supporting evil is relativly recent phenomenon, and like suckers, instead of fighting it, people are prepared to compromise with it.
Also, I've yet to see anyone who could be taken seriously call someone a heretic, or going to hell, etc. I think that might be ones' conscience going off like a tornado alarm warning them they are in danger.
"I am ready for some new blood."
How about 1.3 million babies a year?
New and fresh enough for you?
But hey, what about all the GOOD things Hitler did for Germany?
I'm all for "vigorous debate" so long as we tack down the basics first.
So step one, all human beings are equal, right?
Since all human beings are equally endowed with certain inalienable human rights, among which are the rights to life, let's compare Obama and McCain.
Both will be "a change" over Bush.
But Obama has promised to sign the Freedom of Choice Act into law that will wipe out 30 years of incremental STATE lawmaker efforts to limit abortions. He's on youtube making this promise to Planned Parenthood.
He also has promised to appoint 2-3 new justices to the Supreme Court that are pro-abortion to the hilt. That would cement abortion as legal for at least the next 30 years.
McCain has opposed FOCA and promised to appoint Supreme Court justicies who are not pro-abort to the hilt.
All human life being of equal value in the eyes of God, one candidate is on record (and video!) promising to continue the slaughter.
By the time both are elected, "the war" in Iraq will be largely over. So voting for Obama to "achieve peace" is a moot point. Both candidates insist they'll beef up troop presence in Afghanistan so both will continue that war.
From an ethical, apples to apples analysis then, a vote for Obama is a vote for millions of more deaths via abortion while a vote for McCain is not.
It's just that simple.
To paraphrase Mark Twain: "Obama supports abortion. Obama supports murder. But I repeat myself."
Under McCain, the US economy may or may not falter. Under Obama, the US economy may or may not falter. Pick either one if it stops there.
Now consider abortion, which is quite possibly the worst kind of murder as it involves the destruction of innocents. Under McCain, pro-murder laws may or may not stay on the books. Under Obama, pro-murder laws WILL stay on the books. (Worse - more such laws will be written, making it easier for people to massacre untold numbers of innocents.) Whom do you choose?
Some say the US doesn't need another Republican president. I say the US doesn't need another Herod.
Doing everything to make abortion available and easy is so central to Obama's platform, that I can't vote for him.
And for all the unpopularity George W gets, he gave the Supreme Court two strongly pro-life justices. So, although abortion is still legal, he has taken steps to limit it.
I don't expect McCain to make abortion illegal, but I would expect him to do something to make it more difficult to kill an unborn baby. And that's more than I can say for the other guy.
Some people who tell me that voting on one issue is too limiting. I respond by pointing out that every freedom (speech, assembly, press, etc.) depends on the freedom to simply exist (being born or staying alive until natural death).
Let's pray Obama gets more of this kind of change. Is anybody else getting sick of people assuming McCain is a carbon copy of Bush? Or claiming that's a bad thing? All W needs is more guts -- more force in his decisions. Maybe McCain can give that to us.
Taj, old man, you can't support an intrinsic evil and be a Catholic. Try the Episcopal Church, you can believe anything you want and still be a member in good standing.
By the way, McCain is hardly a clone of Bush. He's received a lot of adulation from the press (until the Obamassiah came along) precisely because he has opposed Bush on many issues, i.e. Guantanamo, torture, etc. I really think there are a lot of ill informed Americans. Tom
By the way Tom, I am not old. I am not even 30 yet and thanks for the suggestion, but no Episcopal Church for me. I love being Catholic and will continue to teach and support what she teaches in all I do. I have an MA in theology and will continue to study, ask questions, learn, be open to conversion, etc.
What do you all think of Obama picking Joe Biden? Isn't he Catholic? I guess not since he's a democrat and now Obama's running mate. I just don't understand your logic. I guess all of us (dems, independants, libertarians, etc)will go to Hell in spite of all the good we do and support.
And by the way I STILL don't support ANY form of abortion or other types of killing, violence or harm against the dignity of God's people.
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