AmericanPapist Comments
While I am heartened by the many bishops who have stepped up to show some serious backbone, I'm afraid that it will take decades to undo the damage brought on by silence, passivity and ambiguous statements by the bishops.
We need to continue to pray for our bishops that they will learn from this - the fact that there are so many Catholics who just don't get it.
I also think all of this is a symptom of the lack of autentic unity in some respect between bishops of the USCCB, for example, on withholding Communion, which would be effective in making the teachings clear.
The bishops and priests have long wanted to spare the feelings and dignity of individuals who thumb their nose at Catholic teaching with soft measures. Unfortunately, millions of babies are paying the price.
I just hope we don't have to live to see a man in the presidency that will undo decades of pro-life work by signing FOCA, and through culture of death Supreme Court appointments.
Well said. Joseph Goebbels would be extremely proud of the way Obama has run his campaign. As I've often said, the right will not be the demise of democracy in America, the left will be. Obama is exhibit A. Tom
What does all this make Prof. Kmiec? Could he be duped? Or, what's worse, could he knowingly be part of the process??
Republicans just don't get it: They could really make hay with the abortion issue if they had any kind of strategic sense at all. The problem is, too many Republicans just see "pro-life" as a position to hold and not a goal to be accomplished.
And, they don't realize how being pro-abortion really calls into question a candidate's stand on all the other issues.
Dianne, very good points, but individual Catholics must also look at themselves and not put all the blame on Bishops.When I converted to Christianity in my twenties, it was the evangelical/born-again Christians who inspired me...the ordinary Catholic did not.They blended in with the world,did not share their faith or seemed to be inlove with Jesus,the Bible or care much about holiness.Through my own study,and learning about the Saints, The Holy Spirit guided me to be received into The Church nearly twenty years later. No luke warm Catholics with little love or joy will ever bring mass change or appeal.So I cannot put all the blame on Bishops.
I live in the midwest and a majority of the Catholics vote democratic and they will this time too. The average Catholic is not so intensily involved in the politics of legalized abortion as people think. Yeah yeah I know someone is going to say that they are not really Catholic and all that...
Anonymous 5:45 - point well taken. :D
Well said. Couldn't agree more. The perfidious lefties will be coming up with arguments defending Sadams use of rape and torture rooms.
Either you stand with Kmiec, Kennedy,Kerry, Biden, Sebelius, Tiller, Obama, Kaine, Pelosi, etc. or you stand with the Bishop of Rome, Burke, Corapi & the Culture of Life!!!
I doubt there are very many Catholics who are voting for Obama who actually believe that he is pro-life in the traditional sense. His position in support of what he calls the right to choose is well known. Catholics voting for Obama aren't stupid, there is no "Catholic deception on a grand scale" instead Catholics voting for Obama are doing it in spite of his position on abortion, which most people on here will obviously disagree with, but I believe that that is a seperate issue.
Jason, they aren't Catholics. They are fake Catholics. You wouldn't call them Catholics if they denied the real presence would you? Tom
Tom--like I said, that is a seperate issue. My point was that people are well aware what Obama's stance is on abortion and are voting for him anyway--right or wrong. Like I said there's no big secret or spin machine at work here. But since you want to change the subject, what constitutes a fake Catholic? Anyone who has ever voted for a candidate who doesn't agree with a fundamental church teaching?
Jason:
There is spin. Didn't you read the article? Or the article about Kmiec?
Sounds like you're doing some spinning yourself, too.
Abortion is murder. Anyone who supports abortion, like voting for a pro abortion candidate when a viable pro life one is available, is committing a mortal sin by formal cooperation with that evil.
Now go and pray about that for a while.
Anyone who supports abortion, like voting for a pro abortion candidate when a viable pro life one is available, is committing a mortal sin by formal cooperation with that evil.
Oh, thank God. That gets me off the hook for my vote for Obama.
Uh Katherine,
tell that to catholic league
http://www.catholicleague.org/
ob...infanticide.php
No, she should tell it to God.
you have a point there bill912
Katherine,
Where is your response to the statement from the New York bishops?
You know the one.....where they say that the right to life issues outweigh all other issues in voting??
It's right here on American Papist...just scroll up a bit.
Katherine:
I'm beginning to think that you are evil.
Liar. Abortion supporter.
TJM - "As I've often said, the right will not be the demise of democracy in America, the left will be. Obama is exhibit A".
Your statement is laughable. Obama and the left did not spy on Americans without warrants - the Bush Administration did. Obama and the left did not claim the right to suspend habeas corpus - the Bush Administration did. Obama and the left did not torture prisoners - the Bush Adminstration did. Obama and the left didn't harrass and arrest peaceful demonstrators and members of the press at the Republican National Convention - the Bush Administration did.
The right has done more to threaten and destroy our democracy than Obama and the left have.
To try and compare Obama and the left to Goebbels and the Nazis is irresponsible. Based on their actions, I would say that the Republicans and the extreme right neocons are a closer fit.
Jim:
You're lying about the demonstrations at the RNC. Those "peaceful" demonstrators threw bleach on delegates, assaulted them, and vandalized property.
Obamatons will be the demise of this country because they worship him as a Golden Calf. Already they are making films with their children singing his praises a la Kim Il Jong the "Dear Leader", and calling him "Alpha Omega". It's sick.
And I'm afraid you have morphed into one of those sick people.
Dale Price was kind enough to link us to a video of the Obamajungend: http://vodpod.com/watch/1052595-...ernity-
regiment
Jim's whole second paragraph is untrue. If he's not deliberately lying, he certainly has drunk the Kool-Aid.
bill912 - “Jim's whole second paragraph is untrue. If he's not deliberately lying, he certainly has drunk the Kool-Aid.”
If by "he certainly has drunk the Kool-Aid", you mean "he reads newspapers and listens to the news
and doesn't blindly believe everything that his government tells him", then I'm guilty as charged.
Here are some references to backup my claims:
Warrantless wiretapping
http://www.npr.org/news/specials...p/
legality.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
NSA...nce_controversy
Habeas corpus
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hab...i/
Habeas_corpus
“The November 13, 2001, Presidential Military Order gave the President of the United States the power to detain suspects,
suspected of connection to terrorists or terrorism as an unlawful combatant. As such, it was asserted that a person
could be held indefinitely without charges being filed against him or her, without a court hearing,
and without entitlement to a legal consultant.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Ham...mdi_v._Rumsfeld
“Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, ... was a U.S. Supreme Court decision reversing the dismissal of a habeas corpus
petition brought on behalf of Yaser Esam Hamdi, a U.S. citizen being detained indefinitely as an "illegal enemy combatant".
Torture
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
Enh...tion_techniques
“Bush Aware of Advisers' Interrogation Talks. President Says He Knew His Senior Advisers Discussed Tough Interrogation
Methods”:
http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/Law...=4635175&
page=1
“Bush Vetoes Bill Banning Torture. Says CIA May Need To Use Harsh Interrogation Techniques...”:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/
2...in3919474.shtml
RNC
Though it is true that there were some demonstrators who "threw bleach on delegates, assaulted them, and vandalized property", it was a very small minority of the 800+ protesters where were by-and-large peaceful. And over 40 members of the press were arrested.
http://ww3.startribune.com/blogs...::
D3aDhUiacyKUU
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
200...ers_and_arrests
http://minnesotaindependent.com/...wered-
questions
http://minnesotaindependent.com/...re-under-
arrest
Scott W. - "Dale Price was kind enough to link us to a video of the Obamajungend"
Out of a morbid sense of curiosity, I went to this site (be careful - it has a malware popup window). I then went out and looked at other similar videos. All of them try to instill the fear that Obama is some kind of Hitler-like anti-Christ.
I couldn't help but wonder - what kinds of crap would we Catholics have been subjected to if YouTube had been around when John F. Kennedy was running for office?
I can imagine anti-Catholic Protestants putting out videos with images of the Knights of Columbus (dressed in full regalia, including their swords) and the Swiss Guard overlayed with a soundtrack of Hitler Youth choirs...
I can also imagine a younger pastor John Hagee talking about Kennedy and how if elected, he would be doing the bidding of "The Great Whore of Babylon" and "The Apostate Church" and how Kennedy would force every American to worship Mother Mary...
I can imagine videos of lazy, scary-looking young Irish Catholic men, full of Guinness and Tullamore Dew, lusting after pristine Protestant girls and taking jobs away from their hard-working brothers...
Seeing as how it has only been 48 years since one of our own (JFK) was subjected to the most vicious religious bigotry and questioning of his patriotism, I would think that we Catholics would have at least a LITTLE empathy for another candidate who today is being subjected to a different type of bigotry (as well as questioning of his patriotism).
That was alot of ASCII about nothing. The thing speaks for itself.
Katherine:
I'm beginning to think that you are evil. Liar. Abortion supporter.
atheling
That's okay. Christ is my shield. I have nothing but love for you.
In Him and His Mother,
Kate
Jim,
Nice collection of articles. Even if they were halfway objective, they still do not amount to the evil of abortion according to the Church. Sorry, about that. If you are Catholic, and you vote for Obama with full knowledge of what his priorities are on abortion, you should stay well away from the Body of Christ in the Eucharist, lets you bring more condemnation down upon yourself. That's just the way it is. You'll have to confess your sins with contrition, too. Full repentance required and all that. Think about it. You'll be as much as in communion as Guilliani, and you won't even need to divorce your wife and marry your secretary.
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