AmericanPapist Comments
You know how I feel about the late-great Kmiec and Cafardi, and C's resignation was the right thing to do, but, that said, I don't think we need to expect little asterisks-of-distance every time an academic makes a comment on public affairs. No one really thinks academic institutions stand behind the utterances of every scholar on the payroll. In short, Pepperdine doth protest too much.
Well said, Misters Peters.
Apples and oranges here, Ed. Cafardi, expressing views contrary to the Church's official teachings, would have been a continuing affront not just to any Catholic university, but specifically this one. For all intents and purposes, Father Michael Scanlan began the neo-orthodox trend on this campus. Not cool for Cafardi to maintain his position on the board. If Kmiec works for Pepperdine, he only risks the cold shoulder of his fellow academics. Of which he now resembles far too closely as an Obama sellout.
Very good news. Now, hopefully Cafardi realizes that this reflects the state of his communion with the Church. The "separation" from the Catholic university should make it obvious that receiving Christ on Sunday will only be sacrilegious and will bring further condemnation down upon himself.
Gerard, you make the right distinction for the wrong reason: K is a teacher on the faculty, and faculty don't make policy (in the sense we care about here); C, however, is governor (through the board), thus C helps chart the fundamental course of the FUS, and thus should not be helping guide a fine Catholic school if he thinks Catholics can advocate for BO.
Perhaps Cafardi will announce his withdrawal from the Church next. Seems logical to me because he would only be confirming what he has done. Tom
TJM: THAT seems logical to you??? Any chance of winning a hearing for reasonable, and I think telling, criticisms of NC go right out the window when they can be lumped together with such TOTALLY WRONG conclusions as yours. Support for BO is tanatamount to leaving the Church? Good grief.
Ed, doesn't supporting abortion on demand, an intrinsic evil, put one outside communion with the Church? And if you're supporting a guy who vows to maintain that, is that not material cooperation with evil? I don't know the answer, but it does seem logical. As you can tell, I'm getting fed up with guys like Cadardi and Kmiec. They make Father Hesburgh look really good about now. Tom
Good grief,Yes! It is an abomination to support BO! It is, in reality, ALREADY a leave from the Church and a leave from all good sense.
I thought David from Cosmos~Liturgy~Sex had some good insight on Kmeic and Cafardi.
http://cosmos-liturgy-sex.com/20...and-conscience/
Thanks Dim Bulb, I'll check it out. Tom
Dim Bulb, I just read it and its a very convincing and well written argument against Kmiec's and Cafardi's positions. Tom
Exactly my point, Ed. A board member of an orthodoxer-than-orthodox Catholic university carries more clout than Yet Another Classroom Activist. Cafardi's exit from FUS is a major plus for the university- addition by subtraction. Kmiec- just another lib Catholic Uncle Tom.
Dr. Peters,
To rephrase Tom's question, shouldn't Cafardi and the other liberal Catholics cut from the same mossy rock refrain from receiving communion, as their public support for abortion (through their support for pro-abortion candidates) is scandalous to the faithful?
Gerard, I don't think we disagree, so I don't know why you think my position needs correcting. I must be missing something.
Others, the most (as in, the MOST) you can get to on these facts so far is that C/K might have committed objective grave sin, but such does NOT cast one out of the Church. Surely you see that? Else, who, at one time or another, would be left? (Yes, I know all about LG 14; see 83 CIC 205). And I wont' even say, don't confuse a Catholic's eligibility for Communion with being "in" the Church, because those points are quite different in law, pastoral practice, etc, from what we talking about. Assuming I know what we're talking about. Which I think I do. :)
Ed, please don't think I'm being difficult but I am confused and since you're the canonist you can help clarify my thinking. I was always under the impression that if one aids, abets, supports, or procures an abortion, that individual is automatically excommunicated. If you're excommunicated aren't you, at least for the time period that censure is in place, outside the Church? I think people with the stature of a Kmiec or Cafardi have a far greater responsibility than the average smoe with an uninformed opinion. By supporting Obama and saying it's ok to do so and be a faithful Catholic, they are creating a major scandal and undermining the Church's position on abortion. Please help me sort this out. Tom
Now I beseech you, brethren, to mark them who make dissensions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned AND AVOID them. For they that are such, serve NOT Christ our Lord but their own belly; and by pleasing speeches and good words, seduce the hearts of the innocent...ROMANS CHAPTER 16:17
Being 'in' the Church means your life is a witness to Christ; that you are a follower of Jesus; and have renounced all the works of Satan;you repent and ammend your sinful ways and have broken with sin;have a desire to NOT SIN AND only desire TO BE CONFORMED TO THE LIKENESS OF JESUS. An authentic follower of Jesus would not speak as these men do.Conversion is a daily,present activity,with the weeds growing alongside with the wheat. The word of God;[the Bible ]has a much higher standard for leaders;[teachers,deacons, Bishops,] and says God judges them more severely, so being a teacher should not be taken lightly.Woe to those who lead my little ones astray or cause one of these to sin.
Liberal teachers are only brain washing young minds, that's all. No clout,right?
No problem, TJM. You are consistently polite and reasonable; wrong, maybe, but P&R; happy to continue here.
I spent a lot of time on this over the years. Read this blog post of mine, http://www.canonlaw.info/2007/05...on-1398-
to.html, and if you still have questions, lemme know.
Way to go, Fr. Terry!
Ed, thanks I will be happy to take a look and get back to you if I have any questions. Regards, Tom
Ed, I read the link and the other link underlying it. I have a better understanding of the canonical issues. Given the gravity of the matter at hand, the Church may have to further legislate to reach the conduct that I and many others are outraged at. I recall that Leander Perez, a Louisianna politician in the 1940s was excommunicated by his bishop for challenging integration of the Catholic Schools. If you are familiar with that matter, was the basis for that excommunication the fact that Perez sued the bishop? Regards, Tom
Good. So you see, if it (1397) can't reach politicians, even less can it reach people pushing for politicians.
My impression of the Perez case is too blurry to support a conjecture; I'd have to look at it. Time permitting.
"And, as an aside, it's also fairly evident to me that Kmiec has given up his attempts to have an intellectual debate about his position..."
Do you ever wonder whether that applies to yourself?
Wow! Deep!
Adios!
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