AmericanPapist Comments
Tis why my wife and I dumped television three years ago. It's funny, I was inspired to do so after I read Confessions. St. Augustine speaks specifically on how the gladiatorial games are addictive and inhibit or destroy the possibility of developing in virtue.
I agree with you in regards to the whole gambit of ultimate fighting and all of its offshoots. I'm still a sucker for American Football though. Does that count?
Actually, this is the same principle at work in prohibiting folks in irregular marriages from coming into the Church; it makes no pastoral sense to say "Come on in" with one breath and "You can't go to Communion" in the next.
PS for Joe: American football does not count. Just mute the offensive commerials.
I'm a daily communicant, say the rosary every day, pray the hours, teach catechism, and am very active in volunteering with my church's youth group. I've also trained MMA for several years and find the physical and mental discipline it instills very helpful in my spiritual journey. I think it's unfair to compare MMA to gladiatorial competition. The point in an MMA match is not to hurt your opponent. It is skilled athletic competition, with the point of proving your skill against an opponent. One might even say it is more humane than boxing. If you land a few good shots in an MMA match, it will usually be ended immediately. In boxing you stand there and pound each other for 12 rounds, causing much more serious long term effects. Please compare the rate of injuries suffered in MMA matches to boxing, football, basketball, or almost any other sport. I think you will be surprised by the results. No one has ever sustained a permanent injury in a UFC match.
http://www.jssm.org/combat/1/18/...v5combat-
18.pdf
According to this report the most common way an MMA fight ends is TKO, which is when the ref stops the fight as soon as it appears someone may be in trouble. The second most common is hand injury, which is really a self injury. Third most common? Being accidentally poked in the eye. Anyone remember seeing the football player being guided off the field with blood coming out of his eye a few weeks ago?
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/
3....gewanted=print
http://ejmas.com/jcs/2004jcs/
jcs..._landa_0804.htm
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entr....etrieve&
dopt=A bstractPlus&list_uids=16295814&itool=ico nabstr&query_hl=11&itool=pubmed_docsum
Nate, I enjoyed and appreciated your insights. It seems to me that a distinction ought to be made between amateur boxing and the MMA you describe, from professional boxing matches. In the latter, the actual goal is the "knockout", to beat the opponent into insensibility. For no worthy end, so far as I can discern. The former seems to me a variation on training in the "manly art of self-defense", which a reasonable man might undertake.
Personally, I'm not at all a violent type, even in sport. Yet, I enjoy reading the writings of Chuck Norris, a whole lot more than his movies and TV shows. I'll have to throw my support at Nate in recognizing that this kind of competition does instill discipline and courage, provided that the competitor is not in the sport specifically "to hurt someone."
"NO INFAMES ALLOWED"
Video games, like the Grand Theft Auto are the most evil and they have pornography in these games.
What about sending troops off on imperial wars that result in the destruction of the local church in that country.
i.e. All the Catholic politicians who allowed Bush to invade Iraq, against the Pope's advice, and which has now led to the destruction of the church in that country?
Anonymous,
Abortion/Infanticide/Gay Marriage...
And the Pope has never advised against these? And which do you think, the above examples, or a war, holds more moral weight? Hmm?
Check out Vox Nova. You'll find like-minded individuals there.
Let's posit the Iraq war was unjust. Bishop Martino demolished the typical equivocation attempted in certain camps:
"Even the Church’s just war theory has moral force because it is grounded in the principle that innocent human life must be protected and defended. Now, a person may, in good faith, misapply just war criteria leading him to mistakenly believe that an unjust war is just, but he or she still knows that innocent human life may not be harmed on purpose. A person who supports permissive abortion laws, however, rejects the truth that innocent human life may never be destroyed. This profound moral failure runs deeper and is more corrupting of the individual, and of the society, than any error in applying just war criteria to particular cases."
I'm not suggesting war and abortion are the same.
I'm pro-war. Pro-just-war, that is.
Afghanistan: Just
Iraq: Unjust
So, can someone directly answer my direct comment above?
I'll leave a war comment to the war threads.
I've been reflecting on MMA, boxing, and wrestling (real not pro) for a while.
I love wrestling and see the virtues of it in training and working. Can it be put to poor use-absolutely, but it's not intrinsically wrong.
Boxing-with proper regulation and care for the fighters I think it can be fine. There's a Benedictine monk in the KCK archdiocese who was a semipro boxer then high school principal in the 60-70's. If you had a beef with him he'd strap on the leather if you asked...reasonably of coarse. Not that laws would permit that now.
MMA...I struggle. I like it. However like most 30 year old men in our society I'm jaded and conditioned to violence so it doesn't phase me.
I don't dig the immodest commercials that run during the fights. But that;'s most of the media.
On a comical (maybe blasphemous) note here's a link to a Christian MMA gear website. There are some shirt images that might be worth looking at...like one commenting on Jesus as "Putting the Jew in Jiu-Jitsu"
www.jesusdidnttap.com
Was it unjust? The Church is not privy to all military strategy.
It was unjust.
And the church is pretty privy to international affairs.
And the Vatican diplomatic corps is primarily responsible for protecting Christians around the world, which obviously is more than can be said by the Dominionist Christian Zionist in the White House.
Anonymous,
Since it went over your head the first time... here goes. I don't care if the war in Iraq was just or not in terms of this election. Whether it was or not, it is clearly trumped by the objective and intrinsic evil of the proposed policies of the rabid pro-abortion freak who goes by the name of Obama. Not to mention, the numbers are beyond compare. If the dichotomy is war or abortion (which it is not, but liberal Catholics try to make it so to justify their pro-abortion positions), then I must choose war. Even if every victim of the war is relatively innocent, it will not amount to the amount of objectively innocent children that are murdered because of legal abortion.
Now, back to you, chip... for your next wave of equivocation.
Gladiatorial combat had the ultimate goal of killing the opponent. It was killing people for the sake of sport. This is why it was a profession which was banned. There is no equivalency here to MMA. Also, soldiers are agents of the State, and not always (draft) of their own volition. This was recognized in ancient times. Thus, no ban on soldiery.
Maybe the war was unjust by Church criteria, but the bishops did protest against it. Not only that, congress debated it. The public debated it. No one forced anyone to vote for the war. However, once the decision is made, and the authority is given, it is time to move on. Just like this election. IF Obama is elected, I will move on, as will most Republicans. IF McCain is elected, how many Democrats will be stuck in the past, such as yourself Anonymous?
You are so right, fh in Houston. I STILL here about Bush....."President SELECT" from 2000 from the Democrats at my job.
Oops....I meant hear not here!:)
Gotta love it when Hippolytus shows us in your blog. More please.
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