AmericanPapist Comments
Thomas, I feel obliged to point out that many of us who would be considered "liberal" by American standards, and are _justifiably_ concerned about the environment (the American right-wing reaction to this matter is truly baffling to me), are true Catholics as well. These sorts of snortingly-funny, ridiculous predictions that you highlight are, in my mind, extremely typical of the fundamentalist Christian churches in the U.S. today, and they should stay there; let's not jump on the paranoia bandwagon every time somebody tries to pay some attention to preserving the earth on which we live, or speaks well of the European Union (with which I, an Irish person, have few problems), or is not particularly friendly to the Catholic Church in the media.
Those behind the Trumpet and its ilk are people we should ignore when possible, and overcome through our examples of love and obedience. It is in the nature of the Church to be persecuted; let us carry this with humility in our hearts, confident in the triumph of God's will in the end.
Dear Madame, Two words: Lighten up!
Yes indeed, politics makes strange bedfellows, and the truth is stranger than fiction. You just can't make this stuff up. Who would have ever thought that Biblical Fundamentalists would become one of the best allies the secular media ever had, and vice versa.
As a former fundamentalist I know from personal experience they're barking up the wrong tree. What they don't realize is just how much they're actually helping the antichrist system they're trying to expose, by attacking the ONLY European power (the papacy) willing to stand up against it.
I see these groups as an eventual irrelevancy. Though they unwittingly work to help the antichrist system of secular humanism, they will soon become its victim. Currently, the secular world ignores fundamentalists -- except to occasionally poke fun at them. That's because the secularists know Biblical fundies are relatively small groups, that generally don't get along with each other, let alone anyone else. So they're not seen as any kind of a serious threat to the prevailing religion of secularism. The real problem the secularists face is the Roman Catholic Church, and they know if they're ever going to achieve their antichrist goals of world domination, they're going to have to get the Catholic Church out of the way. Hence the endless media and political assault on everything Catholic. Fortunately for the secularists, those "wacky fundamentalists" are willing to help them out along the way.
Both the Scriptures and Holy Mother Church tell us that one day the secularists will succeed in their antichrist designs. (No thanks to the Biblical fundamentalists who unwittingly helped them all along the way.) When they do the Catholic Church will be put on the the defensive, trying to protect her own and unable to help others. Once the monolithic giant of Catholicism is on the run, these little Biblical fundamentalist churches will fall like dominos. The antichrist secularism, (they unwittingly helped by attacking the only Church strong enough to stand against it), will turn on them like the giant snake it is, and wipe them out with a single sweep of its tail. The way I see it, the fundies are "making their own bed," and if they're not careful, they may have to "sleep in it" sooner rather than later.
They depicted a woman riding a beast over seven mounds or waves.
Anyone with a cursory introduction to Greek mythology knows that that image is from the story of Europa -- the bull being the "god" Zeus in disguise.
GB, truly I don't wish to come across as too, er, un-lightened-up; truly. But this sort of thing really gets tiresome, and one feels one must make a point of saying so.
Okay, no more grumpy Madame S. Back to laughing at Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Pentecostal Evangelicals, or whatever it is those folks are calling themselves this week!
Dash it, they've uncovered the secret plan!
Oh, well: back to the drawing board...
The truly funny thing about the fundies is that they are expecting to be raptured into a millennium, when in fact, it's already over with. The thousand years of Christendom, having reached their apogee in the thirteenth century, are spent. Now we're in that time when Satan "must be" set loose to deceive the nations -- e.g., the fundies, and the secularists who believe in their own version of an earthly millennium.
The fundies are in dire need of the services of the Inquisition.
Robert I suppose the 13th century could be called the end of the millennium just like any other century. It all seems so arbitrary to me anyway.
If I had to chose a period, it would definitely be the 16th century with its the breakup of the One True Church into tens of thousands of schisms.
It is easy to see that what you are pointing to is the rise of Islam -- that longtime scourge of peaceful Christendom, but even that seems less Satanic to me than disease of Secularism which attacks Christianity from within and without.
Fundies, both Muslim and Protestant, have in common a characteristic deep passion and this may become their saving grace in the future. I am holding out for the eventual transformation of both groups into faithful Catholics.
In my talks with people from Communist China, I have come to the conclusion that Saudi Arabia will convert to Catholicism before China will. This is because 50 years of Communism has done more to darken the human intellect and spirit than 7 centuries of Islam.
Try to talk about God to Chinese person and they will exhibit signs of discomfort. Try to talk about God to a Muslim, however, and you are bound to have a heated conversation.
Passion at least can be redirected. Total lack of interest requires a great deal more effort. Kinda like fishing. Muslims already have the hook in their mouths while Secularists will not even open theirs.
StubbleSpark:
I deeply respect your insights.
However, I remain committed to my thesis that history has a once-and-forever unrepeatable meaning.
We can see numerous ricorsi through the centuries: 300-1300, Constantine to Innocent III and Boniface VIII; 500-1500, fall of the Western Christian Roman Empire to fall of the Eastern Roman Empire and the Protestant Revolt; 800-1800, the Papal coronation of Charlemagne to the fall of the Holy Roman Empire; 900 -1900, the transfer of the Holy Roman Empire to the German nation to the gotterdammerung of the thirty years' war of the twentieth century.
Maybe we are still in the midst of another millennial ricorso that we just can't perceive yet. But I think witnesses like Guardini, Pieper, Vatican II and Ratzinger strongly point to the conclusion that the millennium is finally over.
One of the greatest weaknesses of contemporary Catholic apologetics is, I think, its unwillingness to come to terms with eschatology in a real-time historical sense.
Maybe we all should go back to Theology of History in St. Bonaventure -- the Holy Father's youthful thesis that contains in germ all of his subsequent work.
You know your an American liberal when:
you say that pro-choice is the same thing as pro-life
that the TLM (Traditional Latin Mass) mass is evil
you say that Church is for hypocrites
you say that outlawing abortion, homosexuality is fascism
you say that devout Christians are equivalent with the Nazis (people who associate Christians w/ the Nazis are most likely racist themselves)
I'm glad to see my definition of "liberal" is, indeed, vastly different from that of Americans, if Nick's post is anything to go by.
"I'm glad to see my definition of 'liberal' is, indeed, vastly different from that of Americans, if Nick's post is anything to go by."
May I also add, that liberals are those who:
Deny the doctrine of papal infallibility
deny the doctrine of purgatory
declare that hell is only for nazis, communists and bomb terrorists.
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