AmericanPapist Comments
I can't wait for WYD SYD 08. Like you, I'm trying to find a way to get myself over there. We'll see...
My advice for you (and anyone else): If you do go, and you're looking for a much different experience than the 'Church youth group', sign up as a volunteer. I went to Cologne as a WYD Volunteer and it was incredible. I recommend it to anyone who is looking for something different, or does not have a group to go with.
Were you the one in the white skullcap riding in that neat car?
Tom,
you could come with the Saginaw group, I'm going and I know thats a big selling point for you..
Were you serving as a candle bearer?
You are located at the 1:40 point when the two servers are coming down from the altar carrying those huge candles!! Your the one on the left and the other one is Sean Mcnalley!!!
I win the prize right!
No fair BEING THERE, Joe. :P
Is anyone else concerned that the WYD theme song winner who will also perform at WYD is pro-homosexual lifestyle and pro-gay "marriage"? Our Catholic youth will look in admiration at Guy Sebastian and thereby listen to what he "preaches" publicly. Here's a snippet of an interview he gave back in October:
Question: There was a mini-debate about you saying you had a lot of gay friends and so were offended by the word "faggot", but that homosexuality surely clashes with your Christian beliefs?
Guy Sebastian: That's the sad side of Christianity. That's not how it's meant to be. I've been to gay clubs heaps of times. That's the old fundamentalist way of thinking that's unfortunately spread through all these generations. They miss the whole point of Christianity which is love. God loves people whether they are black, white, gay, straight, bisexual, whatever. As a Christian, we're never going to get close to being sinless or perfect, and I'm no better than anybody on this earth, but our No.1 goal is to be as loving as we can. We aim to be like God, so for me, I think that's a really ugly side of when people get lost in religion. It's funny, Shannon (Noll) gets called that, Anthony (Callea), all my friends in the industry. That's the word everyone picks -- as soon as you're in the industry you're gay.
Question: You're not anti gay marriage?
Guy Sebastian: I'm not really anti anything. If you're a gay couple why not? I don't really have a stance because I don't know what it's like to be told you're not allowed to marry somebody. That doesn't seem fair to me.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun...37-
2902,00.html
So we need another archbishop Burke over there?
And I spotted Thomas too. Hurray!
Exactly what is your agenda Deborah. Guy Sebastian is not pro Gay marriage or any thing else like that. He just does not believe in criticising other people or their lifestyle. He is also a committed christian.He believes in tolerance and understanding to others, something all christians should believe in. Perhaps you should take a leaf from his book. And also learn not to twist the words that are printed in newspapers. A finer, kinder, more principled, or more talented song writer for the song to represent the World Youth day could never be found.
Deborah - Guy Sebastian is Australia's most respected and well loved Christian singer. It is sad that you would prefer to nit pick over small personal beliefs rather than look at the heart of a person and the joy that he is giving those attending this great conference.
Reread your post - is this the impression you want to give the rest of the world about Catholics?... adhere to all our Catholic doctrines or we will have nothing to do with you!
Actually the organisers of this event did not specify that the songwriter had to be Catholic, so all Christians were invited to submit a song so long as it fitted the spirit and theme of the conference.
Think again Deborah and enjoy the blessings that are to come out of this great event. This is a time to put away the differences and enjoy worshipping Jesus together. Guy will sing with his heart and God's love will flow, be assured of that.
Deborah, I think Mr Sebastian is mainly pro not trying to dictate to everyone how they should live. I, and many other Australian Christians and Catholics, find him to be a breath of fresh air. Also, from what I've read, he seems to be a Christian first and doesn't follow any particular version of Christianity. So as a non-Catholic the only role he's likely to play in the proceedings is that of a singer/songwriter. I have a lot of his music - Christian and commercial pop/rock/rnb - and he does have a wonderful voice, so let's just enjoy.
So I suppose my answer to your question is: No, I'm not concerned.
Meg, please reread my post. Guy Sebastian IS in fact pro gay "marriage" according to the Australian newspaper interview. When asked if he is anti gay "marriage" he says, "If you're a gay couple why not?"
I'm sure he is a very nice guy and so are alot of others who vocalize their moral stances which are against the Catholic faith.
If anyone thinks it is appropriate for someone who publicly supports the homosexual lifestyle and gay "marriage" to in anyway represent our Catholic faith at a WORLD wide Catholic event then you must also think that the bishops are wrong who prohibit speakers and musicians who publicly support gay "marriage" and/or abortion.
I'm sure many faithful Catholics will be very upset over this, especially parents. The WYD organizers have been notified and hopefully will make the right decision.
Again, I'm sure Guy is a great guy and maybe okay on some other Christian issues however he is dead wrong in supporting gay "marriage" and should not in anyway give the impression of representing the Catholic faith just because he's nice and has a good singing voice.
Also, I believe the song was recorded this past week by Guy with two other prominent and exceptional Christian singers. So if you're successful in your sad endeavour, Deborah, at least we'll have that.
And The Vatican and their selection panels can Google too, y'know. I'm sure that article isn't news to them.
Deborah - If you are looking for Mr or Ms perfect then you won't find anyone.
Of course you can choose a song by someone unknown so that at least their opinions (and differences in dictrinal beliefs) have been unreported, then you can be safe... at least until they open their mouth with a microphone in front of it, or someone exposes their bakcground. But it won't make them any more worthy of singing the theme song.
The organisers who chose the song know that Guy is not Catholic, but they do know he is Christian and that is the what matters to them.
I stumbled across this looking for information on World Youth Day for my children.
I'm not Catholic, but thought that the World Youth Day sounded like a wonderful way for young people to come together from all over the world.
I must admit to being quite shocked at Deborah's post.
Surely not all Catholics share her views?
Guy Sebastian is a talented singer/songwriter. A wonderful role model for anyone,especially youth, who would never judge others.
" As a Christian, we're never going to get close to being sinless or perfect, and I'm no better than anybody on this earth, but our No.1 goal is to be as loving as we can."
Sounds good enough to me!
Well, I'm shocked at people's reactions over Deborah's post. Oh, yeah, Guy Sebastian is such a wonderful Christian, he supports gay "marriage"! Oh, you see, he doesn't believe in dictating people how to live. You know, because that's not what the Bible does at all.
It is true that it would be impossible to find a good theme song by a solid orthodox Catholic singer. Mainly because a singer like that hardly exists. But rushing to defend his Christianity, which clearly he himself doesn't bother to defend, is silly. How did Deborah twist his words - she just quoted him! A guy who says "I've been to gay clubs heaps of times" can't be all that Christian after all.
Oh boy!Where does all your anger come from? So sad.
It is sad that you Nutcrazical are more incensed by the people defending Guy Sebastian that the vicious smear campaign by Deborah. Guy is indeed a devout christian who upholds christian values. But he is the type of christian I admire most. One who can live a christian life style without criticising others. He has only basically said in that article that he accepts others rights to live their lives as they see fit. Perhaps if more religious people had that attitude, the terrible wars that have been started by zealots, no matter which faith they follow would not have occured. Live and let live is Guys' motto, and mine too. I do not support Gay marriage, but agree with Guy that people have a right to live the way they wish. You should read the bible more carefully and if you did you would realise Christ himself did not try and tear down others. I think he would be frowning on the two of you at the moment.
To Deborah and Nutzrazical - I would suggest you take a leaf out of Guy Sebastian's Bible and contemplate the words of Jesus in Matthew 7:1 - Judge not, lest ye be judged!
Error has no rights. No one has the right to be wrong. Guy Sebastian has no right to be wrong, which he is by supporting gay marriage.
Guy is indeed a devout christian who upholds christian values. But he is the type of christian I admire most.
No he doesn't uphold Christian values, or at least the Sacrament of Marriage, because he supports gay marriage. I'm so sorry that you admire him.
Tonight I watched Guy perform, as guest vocalist with the Australian Philharmonic Orchestra. Am I happy? You betcha!
Thanks, Deborah, for that quote by Sebastian. It looks like World Youth Day Australia is already on the wrong track if they have asked him to write the theme song. I wonder what Cardinal Pell thinks.
"Christians" like Guy Sebastian are actually far more insidious and dangerous to the Church than the most vocal gay rights activists and pornographers. Anyone can look at Act Up and other groups that throw condoms in churches and know immediately they are wrong and what they stand for should be condemned.
Sebastian--from the quote above--feels that one can be a true Catholic and at the same time go to gay clubs, have gay sex, and even get "married" as long as you promote "love" and are not "judgmental." You can pick and choose what you believe in as long as it doesn't inconvenience your lifestyle choice. By no means should you ever condemn others' lifestyles. This is the worst form of the Modernist heresy.
Being discerning is not being judgmental, and one can easily discern from Catholic belief that Sebastian is wrong and that he is not a good choice to be performing at World Youth Day.
One newspaper article, with deliberate questions asked to get controversial responses. Guy was damned no matter which way he answered. It is the only time he has ever spoken about Gay marriage. As I said before he is no more a supporter of Gay marriage than I am. He just believes in allowing people to live their lives as they see fit. He is not a Catholic, he follows another faith, but it is not required that he is Catholic to write the song. He lives a christian lifestyle, and attends his church regularly. He spends a great deal of time in charity work. He is an ambassador for World Vision, and has done much charity work for Ronald Mcdonald House Childrens' Charities. In one period of time 16 out of the 18 appearances he did were for free for charities. Just because he is not willing to condemn others for the lifestyle they choose does not mean he supports them. You are very bitter, angry people. So sad you didn't spend more time doing good in the world like Guy, and less time casting stones. Strange that he is often laughed at by his peers in the music industry because of his christian beliefs, and yet here he is called a non christian. I will make no further comment here. I have better things to do with my time than argue with bigots.
Having briefly scanned through this comment thread it is very clear to me that a special post on this topic could be helpful. I'll try to compose that the next time I get some sustained time on a computer with internet access. Thanks and please keep the discourse charitable.
Anne, it's charity to correct people when they are wrong. Furthermore, all other religions other than Catholicism are false religions. They aren't revealed by God, so you can't expect the Truth to come out as fully as It does with the Catholic Church.
Just because he is not willing to condemn others for the lifestyle they choose does not mean he supports them.
Do to others whatever you would have them do to you. If I were living in that kind of sinful lifestyle, and I didn't know the Truth, I would want someone to tell me the Truth.
You are very bitter, angry people.
Well I'm not bitter and angry. So don't read emotions into comments on a blog - it's impossible to tell subtle differences in tone with only text.
Jesus said "if you love me, keep my commandments". Well it's a commandment that only a man and a woman can get married, not those of the same sex.
I will be praying for this situation, those going to World Youth Day (which may include me) as well as for Guy Sebastian.
I'm still shocked to see that such anger & condemnation against such a open,honest young Christian man is alive & well in the Catholic Church.
He was invited to write & sing a song by your Church.
His only "sin" in your eyes appears to be that he won't judge others?
Please tell me this isn't the case?
[i]"Christians" like Guy Sebastian are actually far more insidious and dangerous to the Church than the most vocal gay rights activists and pornographers.[/i]
This observation/opinion is so very very wrong & so hurtful.
If that is the general view of Catholics on this issue,I feel sorry for you.
No wonder numbers in your Church are lessening. SO SAD!
Can you seriously tell me that all catholics world wide are sinless and perfect?
I can't think of a better person than Guy to write and perform this song,a christian that is loving giving and excepting of people.
I sure would'nt like to be a gay daughter or son of catholic parents.
What would you do?diss own them,they probaly have to live a lie the rest of their life and hide it i guess you will next say that catholics are't gay.
Can't wait to hear Guys song a christian thats full of love.
BRING IT ON Whoo ooh!
Im catholic and I have a gay child who I absolutely adore and am very proud of. I applaud Guy Sebastian for his stance on homosexuality and gay marriage. Good for him. Live and let live, thats my moto too. I am very proud that Guy's song has been chosen for world youth day. I cant wait to hear it. He is a fine young man and a wonderful role model for Australias youth.
I am so glad Bob that you as a Catholic have been able to accept your son and still support and love him despite him being gay.
"Im catholic and I have a gay child who I absolutely adore and am very proud of."
Many parents whether christian or not have unfortunately not been able to do this. This is all that Guy is doing as well, accepting and respecting people as they are and not turning away from them. Of course if some of the comments I have seen here are anything to go by, then you may well be as evil as Guy in their eyes.
Sally, this is very arrogant of you to say:
No wonder numbers in your Church are lessening. SO SAD!
The number of Catholics in Brazil are less than they were 10 years ago, yes. But the percentage of Catholics in Brazil has stopped dropping. Its a fact.
If you think that all the Church cares about is getting big numbers, or if that's what you think is important you are wrong. One of the Catholic Church's main goals is to spread the gospel & save souls. Sorry, we're not here to make money and get as many members as possible by taking out whatever parts of the Bible that people don't like.
I think everybody needs to just relax...that is if the people posting comments supporting Guy are actually more than one person. Don't assume that one post by one person makes up the viewpoint for the Church. Nobody is saying Guy is going to hell. They are worried because they feel that Guy is pro-homosexual lifestyle and pro-gay "marriage" and that this wouldn't be the right message to send to young people.
Although I said I wouldn't comment again, I feel the need to answer some of the strange comments I have seen.
"..that is if the people posting comments supporting Guy are actually more than one person."
Perhaps only someone who would think
of that Lauran, is doing exactly that. I can quite imagine many of the comments comdemning Guy are indeed coming from one person.
"Well I'm not bitter and angry. So don't read emotions into comments on a blog - it's impossible to tell subtle differences in tone with only text."
I take it then Andrew, that I can now read Mein kampf and any publication by the Klu Klux Klan and understand that there is no bitterness or anger in their words, as I can not possibly interperet their words as being angry, bitter, or even hateful. Or that I should perhaps view this statement below made on another site against Guy, as not being angry, bitter, or hateful.
"he needs to murdered in the most brutal way possible...i'd go for letting a thousand rats eat him alive."
Words can protray those emotions Andrew. They are a powerful tool that can show bitterness, anger and indeed hate. They can also show kindness, love, and tolerance. Personally I prefer Guys' words to yours.
Sorry if my comment came across as "very arrogant" I truly was shocked by all the negativity!
Your assumptions re my thoughts on what the Church cares about are wrong too...
I must admit though,I feel that the negative posts & assumptions here & popping up on other catholic sites about Guy send a much worse message to people.
There are 100's of articles/interviews on Guy & these sites appear to have picked a few words from one & run with it.
Quotes from Catolic sites in the last 24hrs...
"Our Catholic youth will look in admiration at Guy Sebastian and thereby listen to what he "preaches" publicly."
"This is the same Guy Sebastian who ridiculed Catholic teaching against homosexuality"
"The approval of a theme song written by a pro-homosexual rock star is yet another indication of what we have said for years: that World Youth Day promotes a counterfeit religion foreign to Catholicism."
"Catholics should not only boycott World Youth Day, but they should also immediately write to the Vatican’s Pontifical Council of the Laity, and to the Congregation for Worship and the Sacraments to protest this mockery of the Catholic religion."
"Yet another reason to hate WYD"
"So far I'm unconvinced that this means he's a dedicated gay-rights campaigner, but perhaps it would be useful if he could be urged to clarify his understanding of the Church's teaching..."
"So we are allowing somebody to aid the youth of the world in coming to the knowledge and path of Jesus whose vision of the Way is radically opposed to the Church’s vision, which is to say radically opposed to God’s vision."
"No he doesn't uphold Christian values, or at least the Sacrament of Marriage, because he supports gay marriage. I'm so sorry that you admire him."
Here's an article which gives a more honest insight into what Guy is about.
http://www.news.com.au/
adelaiden...5006343,00.html
I agree that everyone should relax...but where's the love & tolerance?
MESSAGE OF THE HOLY FATHER
BENEDICT XVI
"On the occasion of the 22nd World Youth Day that will be celebrated in the dioceses on Palm Sunday, I would like to propose for your meditation the words of Jesus: “Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another” (Jn 13:34)."
There are hints of great misunderstanding in some of these posts.
Guy isn't Catholic, so he doesn't need to understand the Catholic church's teachings, but I'm sure his Catholic best friend and backing singer enlightens him somewhat.
Guy doesn't preach on anything. He only comments on his religion / virginity when specifically asked.
He's not a gay rights advocate. He's not even gay. 'Jules' is a nickname for Julie, his girlfriend.
(He's not the slightest bit politically inclined either. When asked once, he said, 'I don't know anything about politics. I should read a book about it so I can have a conversation on it.')
To the intolerant posters in this thread, all you do is give people a reason to have a negative view of Catholics.
Someone mentioned the fact that most of the posters are women. I don't know why that is. It might just be that someone who's openly Christian, virgin and gay-tolerant in Australia isn't seen as a 'man's man'. Guy certainly has plenty of male fans of his music though.
I am Vivienne and haven't used any other name on this forum.
As I said before, anyone can google and I'm sure the people who chose the song did that too.
Let's all just relax and wait for the music. It might just be something really wonderful.
Anne/Sally/Vivienne/Meg/Bob/Wakeup-
Why don't we just invite Madonna, Prince, or George Michael to sing and Oprah to host if "tolerance" and being "nonjudgmental," "full of love," and "alive and well" are the only characteristics one needs to be "Christian?" Guy Sebastian is just as "Christian" as they are.
Also, Guy sounds like a terrible role model for youth, completely uninformed, inactive and passive against the onslaught of postmodern values, and proud of it:
When asked once, he said, 'I don't know anything about politics. I should read a book about it so I can have a conversation on it.')
Also, he sounds just like the devil here, who is not "anti anything" either. If it feels good do it! Why not! Who cares, as long as you are full of love:
I'm not really anti anything. If you're a gay couple why not? I don't really have a stance because I don't know what it's like to be told you're not allowed to marry somebody. That doesn't seem fair to me.
In short, this guy a horrendous role model for youth, and it is outrageous that the Catholic Youth Day organizers would pick him to sing and write the theme song. It might be the theme song for moral relativism and postmodernism but definitely not Catholicism.
“Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another” (Jn 13:34)."
He said a heck of a lot more than that. And He showed His love by being a firm and loving Father who lived by example. Christ was not some Guy Sebastian walking around simply saying "Do whatever. Who cares. Don't be judgmental. Show love." No one would have followed Him much less wanted Him to be killed.
As Catholics, we are called to be countercultural and informed. Guy is the opposite of that.
Let's write Cardinal Pell and ask him to comment on Guy's selection:
http://www.sydney.catholic.org.a...u/
contact.shtml
And use some of Anne/Sally/Vivienne/Meg/Bob/Wakeup's quotes to show the danger of Guy being a role model for young Catholics.
I take it then Andrew, that I can now read Mein kampf and any publication by the Klu Klux Klan and understand that there is no bitterness or anger in their words, as I can not possibly interperet their words as being angry, bitter, or even hateful.
[...]
Words can protray those emotions Andrew. They are a powerful tool that can show bitterness, anger and indeed hate. They can also show kindness, love, and tolerance. Personally I prefer Guys' words to yours.
The point is that you read into my post. I wasn't emotional when I was typing it. I'm not yelling at my computer screen. And there is no bitterness and anger either. If you love Jesus, keep his commandments, so don't support gay marriage.
I agree that everyone should relax...but where's the love & tolerance?
Tolerance is not a virtue. And the word "tolerance" is no where to be found in the Catechism.
I'm sorry to hear that tolerance is not a virtue, Andrew, and that my efforts to retain some calm understanding of the rubbish being spouted in some of these posts won't gain me points for heaven.
It's also clear that many of you have decided your church leaders are idiots and don't know how to handle anything as simple as choosing a song. I say 'your' because these days I'm just a Christian.)
I'm off to work. Have a nice day.
I heard Guy was in the recording studio last week recording the song.Not long now to hear what the beautiful Guy and his best mate and backup singer catholic friend Gary have come up with.My catholic friends sure haven't judged Guy on a news paper article without getting to know him.
Its obvious that you are all annoyed at the fact a catholic did'nt write the winning song.My catholic friends are sure nicer.
Thats the last i'm saying not worth the arguement.
Question to those of who think it's a good idea to have a WYD performer who is pro-gay "marriage", pro-homosexual lifestyle and who frequents "gay clubs heaps of times":
Do you agree with the CATHOLIC CHURCH'S TEACHINGS that the homosexual lifestyle and gay "marriage" are immoral and evil in God's eyes and that even those who support such things are also guilty of serious immorality, whether it be a pop star or politician, Catholic or non-Catholic?
In fact the more public the person the more serious the fault lies since they mislead so many others. Do not attack me or other faithful Catholics for following the Catholic Church's teachings if you have a complaint and don't like the Catholic faith then go and complain to Our Lord, Jesus, and the Holy Father, Pope Benedict XVI.
"WakeUp," nobody is annoyed that a Catholic didn't write the winning song. WYD is a CATHOLIC event, started by a CATHOLIC Pope. No one has ever said "Hey Lutherans, you can't come!" So why would you think that we are mad that a Catholic didn't write the winning song. All we care about that its a good song & that the singer is a good Christian. Guy may be a very nice fellow, but people are worried about his position on gay "marriage" & that he is pro-homosexual lifestyle.
Perhaps only someone who would think
of that Lauran, is doing exactly that. I can quite imagine many of the comments comdemning Guy are indeed coming from one person.
Anne, I don't think its fair to accuse me of posting all comments that are not 100% in love with Guy. You have NO proof. I only wrote with this name which is my REAL name. I put my email, did you? All I'm saying is that sometimes there can be trolls (who "support" Guy or dislike his position on gay "
marriage") who fill a comment box with irrational comments. Not saying that everyone is doing that so don't attack me.
"Sorry if my comment came across as "very arrogant" I truly was shocked by all the negativity!
Your assumptions re my thoughts on what the Church cares about are wrong too...
I must admit though,I feel that the negative posts & assumptions here & popping up on other catholic sites about Guy send a much worse message to people."
Sally, I'm glad to hear that you don't feel that about the Catholic Church, because your post truly made me feel like you did. I just thought that was quite mean & arrogant of you to say. Also, some of the quotes that you posted aren't negative.
For example:
This is the same Guy Sebastian who ridiculed Catholic teaching against homosexuality."
"So far I'm unconvinced that this means he's a dedicated gay-rights campaigner, but perhaps it would be useful if he could be urged to clarify his understanding of the Church's teaching..."
"So we are allowing somebody to aid the youth of the world in coming to the knowledge and path of Jesus whose vision of the Way is radically opposed to the Church’s vision, which is to say radically opposed to God’s vision."
"No he doesn't uphold Christian values, or at least the Sacrament of Marriage, because he supports gay marriage. I'm so sorry that you admire him."
Again, none of these people think that Guy is the worst person in the world or the Devil. I also think he should clarify his comments because they seem very wishy-washy to me. But reading the quote as it stands it would seem that he supports homosexual lifestyles. As Gabe said Guy seems to have an attitude of "Do whatever. Who cares. Don't be judgmental. Show love." As Catholics & Christians we should defend our faith, not make it politically correct to please others. Being tolerant doesn't mean washing down your faith to please others. Christ didn't do that.
About the "negative" p
(continued)
About the "negative" posts sending a bad message to people. As I said above, not all the posts are negative. People are standing up & defending their faith, whether it is politically correct or not. Don't assume that one post by one person makes up the viewpoint for the Church. If there are some rather mean comments by people that attack Guy and have no substance thats one thing. But when people stand up & defend their faith its another. They aren't bigots because of that.
"The point is that you read into my post. I wasn't emotional when I was typing it. I'm not yelling at my computer screen. And there is no bitterness and anger either."
Andrew I did not refer to you personally as being bitter or angry.I was referring to all the posters who are slinging these harsh words about a very quiet, unusuming, Christian young man. But I am seriously beginning to think you are not the most intelligent person I have conversed with lately. Words can betray many things, as I said. Anger does not have to be typed in capital letters or have silly icons on it to show itself . Perhaps you have been visiting too many forums. Words show many things. They show ignorance, lack of understanding, hate ect. All these things have been shown by the one or many people who are comdemning Guy because of the one newspaper article. Anyone who has ever read newspaper articles as well, should have the sense to know exactly how the press likes to twist things, and play with words to get the papers sold. I have read many stories in the last few years painting a terrible picture of the Catholic church. If you want me to I believed every story I have read, I can assume that the Catholic Church is full of child molesters and very depraved people, and also tortured young boys brought to Australia during the war from England. And also that many in the Church, not only did nothing to stop, but actively supported the anhilation of 6 million jews during the Second World War. If I am meant to believe every word I have read in the press, and also twist and make my own conclusions on them, then I can only assume that you won't be offended if I now believe the Catholic Church is not a good role model for my children, or even a safe environment for them.
Guy does not, as one person said, lead a "Gay lifestyle". He is not Gay. He is hetrosexual, and has been the same girlfriend for 7 years. A girl who he met in church. He just does not believe in preaching to others. That is as far as him being pro gay marriage would go. He is not a member of the Catholic Church, so does not need to preach about its' teachings as one writer here suggested. He has only written the song. And going on his previous gospel songs written for his church, it will be a very fine song indeed. Guy once said that the only book he had read more than once was the Bible. Perhaps more of you should spend more time reading that, and less making conclusions from newspaper articles.
I'd like to say, regarding the newspaper article, that Guy's comments received little or no attention at the time of publication. Mountains are being made out of molehills.
Having read through this I am glad that I am not a Catholic, nor do I follow any particular religion anymore. This is what religion does to people, and I would rather go to a quiet place and have my conversations with God, and find my peace that way.
The Catholics on here do not show tolerance to their fellow man, something I'm pretty sure Jesus preached. To publicly denigrate a young man who you don't know personally, to base all of your opinions on one newspaper article, and as I saw on another Catholic site, to make fun of his appearance,and want him fed to the rats, surely wouldn't sit well with your God. Doesn't God preach love and understanding towards your fellow man?Maybe I've been reading the wrong Bible all these years. Is yours different maybe ?
Guy is the most non-judgemental person I have ever known. He doesn't try to push his views on anyone, but if asked about his Christian beliefs, his decision to stay a virgin until marriage etc, he answers honestly. What the newspapers do with his answers is anyone's guess.
Guy also loves with an open heart, something not evident from the Catholics on this site. You are certainly not giving a good impression to the world with your uncharitable views. I think I now know why all my Catholic cousins denounced the faith many years ago.
Give me Guy with his giving, loving heart and views towards his fellow man any day. He has a heaven sent talent, and I can't wait to see him sing the song on the steps of the Opera House when it is presented to the world soon. I also can't wait to see his presentation to the Pope on his visit next year.I'm sure that will go down well with you, judging by the theme of your angst.
Inez
Anne, Do you agree with the Catholic Church's teaching, meaning Christ's teaching, that homosexual activity and gay "marriage" are immoral and evil? Do you then agree with the Church's teaching that those who support gay "marriage", especially public figures, are also guilty of a serious immoral action?
Honestly, I agree that Guy should be given a chance to comment on the news story and I sure hope he says something like, "they totally misquoted me and twisted my words" and then I hope he says "God intends for marriage to be between one man and one woman and homosexual activity is wrong".
However, there are other news stories with his comments which give the same kind of approval of homosexual activity and gay "marriage". Maybe they're all wrong? Maybe? Maybe not?
This is not a personal attack on Guy at all this is about protecting our Catholic youth from being further influenced by secular, immoral thinking and defending our Catholic faith from being further tarnished.
Imagine someone singing the national anthem of a country in front of the entire world when that same person had just publicly ridiculed an issue which that country stands for. Wouldn't happen!
But I am seriously beginning to think you are not the most intelligent person I have conversed with lately.
*sigh* - It has nothing to do with anyone's intelligence, including Guy's. World Youth Day is a Catholic event, sponsored by the Catholic Church. To have someone, who apparently has no problem with the gay lifestyle, write and promote a song at a Catholic event is called scandal. I'm sure he's a nice guy. I'm sure he's a talented musician. Nonetheless, either he clears up his views, or his song and his concert should not be held during World Youth Day.
It's also clear that many of you have decided your church leaders are idiots and don't know how to handle anything as simple as choosing a song.
Many of them don't know they should be using Gregorian chant - or they choose to ban it unofficially. And it's not about choosing a song, it's about choosing a song written by someone who supports an intrinsic evil.
I'm still waiting for more answers to my question,What would you catholics do if your daughter,son grandchild came home and annouced they were gay?
Maybe you could answer Deborah seeing you started this but i probably won't get any answers obviously it dose'nt happen in the catholic faith.
Here's a blog by someone who was at the recording last week.
http://robertgalea.blogspot.com/
Nice Blog thanks for posting the link.
Are you perfect enough to stand on the stage and sign for the Pope Deborah, Andrew and others?
This is not a rhetorical question. I really want an answer.
Wake Up says, "I'm still waiting for more answers to my question,What would you catholics do if your daughter,son grandchild came home and annouced they were gay?
Maybe you could answer Deborah seeing you started this but i probably won't get any answers obviously it dose'nt happen in the catholic faith."
Wake Up | 05.20.07 - 11:14 pm | #
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I get the feeling there is one Guy Sebastian supporter who is posing as many different commenters, but this question is hardly the "gotcha" that you want it to be.
The answer is easy: Say that the Catholic Church doesn't accept same sex acts for good reason, though same sex attractions are not inherently wrong as long as you don't act on them. Then direct them to a group like Exodus: http://www.exodus-international.org/ and a great article like this one by Father Paul Scalia (an excellent priest here in the Diocese of Arlington, son of guess who?) http://www.firstthings.com/artic...?
id_article=207
Well, I suppose to some people it's preferable to pretend, but what a horrible trick to play on the person you're pretending to.
Only one person, Gabe? I don't think so. I'm surprised there aren't more, because Guy is a very popular, award-winning artist.
Interesting that nobody has answered my query as to whether I should feel that the Catholic Chruch is still a safe environment, or a good role model for my children, given the stories that have appeared in the press regarding abuse allegations, and other nasty things over the years. Seems that people will asume that anything bad written about Catholic Church should automatically be put aside and or forgiven. But one very small, very unnoticed article about Guy should cause this much reaction, and have him denounced as evil. I would suggest that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Deborah, how did you manage to find this article. I have a copy of it, as I keep all things I see in the papers relating to Guy. But of course I am an avid fan, and many fans do this sort of thing. How did you remember it, when it went barely noticed by most Australians when it was printed. What made you go look for it. I suppose you are feeling vey smug and proud of yourself right now. A good, kind, christian young man is having the cruelest and harshest words said about him. And this statement below has puzzled me.
"However, there are other news stories with his comments which give the same kind of approval of homosexual activity and gay "marriage". Maybe they're all wrong? Maybe? Maybe not?"
As I said, I have most articles written about Guy, and access to the rest, and that aricle is the first I have seen him comment about Gay Marriage. He has spoken about his virginity many times, only because the press ask him about it every chance they get. He has spoken about the love he has for his family, church, God, and his girlfriend. But in all the articles I have ever read, that is the one and only time I have seen him mention Gay marriage. I recall a few times when he was asked if he was anti gay that he said he had gay friends. (in the music industy who wouldn't have met gay people) and he was asked recently what he thought of the fact that Anthony Callea had announced that he was gay. And he answered honestly that it was Anthonys' business. So if I am wrong about this, you must be a very avid NON fan of young Guy, to be more familiar with the articles written about him than I am. I am just glad it was not Anthony Callea whose song was selected. Boy, would that have stirred up a hornets' nest.
Dear Gabe, in answer to your assumption that I am many people on this site, I can assure you that I am Anne, and Anne only. I supplied my email address, and would even print it here, if I was not sure I would receive many irate emails from the very christian, tolerant people here who would object to the fact that as a catholic I will not agree to turn my back on every gay person I have ever met, worked with, or become friends with.
Very true Anne.
This is the only time I have ever read that comment from Guy and I too have read most articles printed about him. Deborah please give us the links to these other articles you refer to.
I have thought about the Catholic church and its many indecretions too over the past few days. Were you people as indignant, incensed and as vicious about those molesting priests as you are Guy (who has never committed any of those things)? Or were you protective of your church and prefered the media to back off and let the church deal with it - as they have done so, so creditably in the past? I'd be interested to know...
Oh and I'm not Anne supporting myself. I'm not Catholic - and feeling rather thankful of that at the moment.
I have lovely memories of working with an amazing Catholic nun, when I worked out west with the aboriginal children, to remind me that not all Catholics are as nasty and exclusive as those contributing to this forum..
Amazing how they assume that Catholics don't care about sex abusers who were priests...
Oh wow! Everything I say is in line with Catholic teaching. If a few have a problem with it then like I said before go to Jesus and the Holy Father to complain.
Are you even Catholic? Go read the Catechism and Holy Bible, study them and pray for direction then maybe eventually you'll understand Christ's teachings about homosexuality.
The real issue here is that those who are attacking faithful Catholics are also pro-gay "marriage" and homosexual activity supporters. Just admit it already! This really is not about Guy at all it is about them feeling convicted. It is typical for irrational people to attack others because they can't think of a good argument or defense for their own position or they are trying to hide their real agenda which is justifying disobedience to the Christ and His Church's teachings.
If it makes you feel better to attack me and avoid stating your own position without attacking others then bring it on.
Catholics are obligated to speak up for Catholic principles. We should not support or encourage that which is morally wrong. Catholic teaching is pretty clear on the issue of homosexuality:having the ssa impulse is not sinful, but acting outonit is gravely sinful.
Christine
The World...IMHO
"If it makes you feel better to attack me and avoid stating your own position without attacking others then bring it on."
Deborah I have stated my position and views very clearly. You still haven't explained how you remembered or found the story, or even searched for it. I believe you are very familiar with fan forums, and know how to use their search engines.
"Amazing how they assume that Catholics don't care about sex abusers who were priests.."
It appears Andrew, that many catholics including some in authority do not care a great deal about sex abusers or ones who have committed other forms of abuse against children. Except of course for the bad publicity. My own mother was in the Goodwood Orphanage in South Australia as a young child. An Orphanage run by nuns. She still has nightmares about the cruelty she was subjected too during her time there, to the extend that she can not drive past it without shaking, despite it now being used for another purpose. Cruelty including being locked in a dark cupboard for an hour with her sister screaming on the other side of the door the the nun to let her out. And much, much worse things that I can't possible tell you. It made me cry for hours when my mother told me the full story of her time there. And yet despite much publicity about all the things that went on in that dreadful place, any of the nuns still alive from there, are I am sure, still treated as respected members of the church. My mother was 4 years old at the time. She looks at her own grandchildren now and it makes her relive it again. She sees their innocence and wonders how anyone could have been so cruel to one so young. Why should she, or I believe that the Church or many other catholics care what some have done in the name of their faith.
I am a catholic because I believe in God and because I was brought up in the catholic faith. If the church wants to excommunicate me because I do not actively preach about the evils of homosexuality, and will not turn away from the gay people I know, then I will submit my name to them and they may do so. They may also like to know that I use the pill as well, as I am highly suspicous many other catholic women do.
Anne, thank you for your honesty which helps people to know where you are coming from. So in a nutshell you are a non-practicing Catholic. Sorry to hear that - hopefully one day you will find the happiness and blessings in Christ's teachings through His Catholic Church. It's not easy but it's the only way to true happiness in this life and the next with God in Heaven.
Did you know that the pill causes abortions? You probably have many children in Heaven. Read the label with the side effects and actions that come with the pills. If you would like you can give me your email and I can send you info. about natural ways to work with the cycle God gave us as women.
Oh, your question. Actually, I was just looking up who Guy Sebastian was after I received an email about him being chosen as the theme song writer and singer. This news article and others came up at the top so I innocently read them not expecting anything - that's it.
"Who helps you: someone who fails to tell you the truth or someone who does tell you the truth? The former may make you feel better; they may soothe and flatter, but the truth is more loving. It will help you live a healthier, happier and more fulfilled life." A principle to remember is hate the sin, love the sinner.
God bless.
So in essense Deborah, you believe that Guy should hate the sin, but love the sinner. I think that is what he is doing. He does not have gay sex, does not intend to marry a gay man, as he is not gay, never has been and never will be. I am sure he will eventually marry his beautiful girlfriend Jules and have a long and happy marriage with a girl who shares his christian values. He does love his fellow man, including the gay people he has met, and the gay fans he may have. And I am sure he also loves other christians, even the ones who speak evil of him, as he was brought up to believe he should love his fellow man in his church and the christian schools he attended.
And in answer to your question I still consider myself a Catholic, although my mother left the church a few years ago(She lost her faith as a teen, but thanks to the kindness and love she was given by members of the Sisters of Charity as a wayward teenager, she returned to the church and married a Catholic, and bought her children up as Catholics. Unfortunately the bitterness she feels now because of the Churches' lack of support in regards to what happened to her as a child, has caused her to give up on the Catholic Church. I myself do not blame her for this. She still believes in God and the teachings of the Bible, but is no longer a practising Catholic). I attend mass, and receive the sacraments. Until I am excommunicated by the Church, I will still consider myself a Catholic. As to supplying my email address, I cannot do that on a public website like this one. Never know how many nasty emails I will receive.
I teach at a relgious school part time.(not Catholic, as it is almost impossible to get a permanent job in a Catholic school here in South Australia.) I also follow Christs' teachings from the bible, and so do not participate in gay sex either, as Guy doesn't. But like Guy I refuse to rant about the people who are gay, and can do nothing to change it. Despite some Catholics' belief that you can change a gay person into a straight person with therapy I do not believe this is possible, and so I will not caste them aside.
Amazing as you seem to be on a similar time frame as I am, as you submit comments during our day and evening hours (So I assume you are from Australia) that you didn't know anything about Guy Sebastian before. Despite him not being well known overseas, he is well known here in Australia by both fans and non fans alike. So I would assume that would have at least been aware of his existance before receiving your special email.
As to your help regarding the pill, I am of the belief that it causes the woman not to ovulate, so does not in fact cause abortion. So I have gone against the Church teachings in this regard. But as the pill is not mentioned in the Bible by Christ, I feel comfortable in that. As to abortion, I abhore and appose it completely, as I am sure Guy himself does. I remember an article in which he spoke of his hopes one day to s
As the rest of my message seems to be lost I will finish it.
I remember deborah, an article about Guy in which he stated he hoped to one day start a councilling service for teens to help steer them away from aborting their babies. I am suprised you didn't find that article as well, when researching after receiving your email. Perhaps you were only looking for negative stories.
"I am a catholic because I believe in God and because I was brought up in the catholic faith...I use the pill... I still consider myself a Catholic...I am of the belief that it causes the woman not to ovulate, so does not in fact cause abortion. So I have gone against the Church teachings in this regard...But as the pill is not mentioned in the Bible by Christ, I feel comfortable in that.
Do you know what excommunicated latae sentiae means? Look in the mirror, Anne, and think.
You are about as Catholic as Donald Duck: ""as the pill is not mentioned in the bible." Spoken like a true Protestant.
"I still consider myself a Catholic." No, the Church determines whether one is Catholic or not, you don't except by submitting your intellect and will. Again, spoken like a true protestant.
You might well explain why someone who out of her own mouth is dead in her sins continues to "receive the sacraments." That would be what? Holy Communion, Confession? Sacrilegious Confessions (I assume you do not confess your error and dissent, there would be no point as you have no contrtiion and no firm purpose of amendment) leading to (more) sacrilegious Communions.
When you receive sacrilegeously, do you understand you are condemning yourself? Are you, a. a material (and probably formal) heretic, and b. a liar and a hypocrite who by saying "amen" is also committing the mortal sin of bearing false witness viz a grave matter. Well??? Or is this not in the bible so it isn't true?
Do you ever fail to assist at Mass when required by law? Yes or no? If yes, without good cause, that's a mortal sin and you may not receive Communion without prior sacramental confession (unless you are perfectly contrite, and then you must thereafter) on this basis alone, but as that is not in the bible, neither is transubstantiation...why don't you list ALL the things you dissent from including Church teaching on the place and role of Sacred Scripture and the impermissible ways of (mis)reading Sacred Scripture.
As someone who plainly needs no teacher when it comes to Sacred Scripture -- except her own perfect conscience -- I expect you can teach all of us the truth about Providentissimus Deus, Leo XIII, 1896;Spiritus Paraclitus, Benedict XV, 1920;Divino Afflante Spiritu, Pius XII, 1943: so go on, why don't you and tell the Church why She is wrong?
Still as you simply decide what is and is not true on your own authority, being infallibly guided by the Holy Spirit to understand and interpret Sacred Scripture...what the heck.
BTW one does not attend the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, one "assists" at.
Believing in God does not make one a Catholic. Being raised a Catholic (?, really? Why are you so devastatingly ignorant then?) does not make one a Ca
a Catholic. Adherence to all the Church teaches makes one a Catholic.
And he spoke to them many things in parables, saying: Behold the sower went forth to sow. And whilst he soweth some fell by the way side, and the birds of the air came and ate them up. And other some fell upon stony ground, where they had not much earth: and they sprung up immediately, because they had no deepness of earth. And when the sun was up they were scorched: and because they had not root, they withered away. And others fell among thorns: and the thorns grew up and choked them. And others fell upon good ground: and they brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, and some thirtyfold. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. Matt. 13:3-9.
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:16.
I charge thee, before God and Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead, by his coming, and his kingdom: Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine. For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables. 2 Timothy 4:1-4.
That henceforth we be no more children tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine by the wickedness of men, by cunning craftiness, by which they lie in wait to deceive. Ephesians 4:14.
Just for you and the other Catholics *cough*.
"[The underlying principle of these new opinions is that,] in order to more easily attract those who differ from her, the Church should shape her teachings more in accord with the spirit of the age and relax some of her ancient severity and make some concessions to new opinions. Many think that these concessions should be made not only in regard to ways of living, but even in regard to doctrines which belong to the deposit of the faith. They contend that it would be opportune, in order to gain those who differ from us, to omit certain points of her teaching which are of lesser importance, and to tone down the meaning which the Church has always attached to them. It does not need many words, beloved son, to prove the falsity of these ideas if the nature and origin of the doctrine which the Church proposes are recalled to mind. The Vatican Council says concerning this point: "For the doctrine of faith which God has revealed has not been proposed, like a philosophical invention to be perfected by human ingenuity, but has been delivered as a divine deposit to the Spouse of Christ to be faithfully kept and infallibly declared. Hence that meaning of the sacred dogmas is perpetually to be retained which our Holy Mother, the Church, has once declared, nor is that meaning ever to be departed from under the pretense or pretext of a deeper comprehension of them."
re -Constitutio de Fide Catholica, Chapter iv.
"We cannot consider as altogether blameless the silence which purposely leads to the omission or neglect of some of the principles of Christian doctrine, for all the principles come from the same Author and Master, "the Only Begotten Son, Who is in the bosom of the Father."-John i, I8. They are adapted to all times and all nations, as is clearly seen from the words of our Lord to His apostles: "Going, therefore, teach all nations; teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you, and behold, I am with you all days, even to the end of the world."-Matt. xxviii, 19. Concerning this point the Vatican Council says: "All those things are to be believed with divine and catholic faith which are contained in the Word of God, written or handed down, and which the Church, either by a solemn judgment or by her ordinary and universal Magisterium, proposes for belief as having been divinely revealed."
re -Const. de Fide Catholica, Chapter iii.
"[These] dangers, viz., the confounding of license with liberty, the passion for discussing and pouring contempt upon any possible subject, the assumed right to hold whatever opinions one pleases upon any subject and to set them forth in print to the world, have so wrapped minds in darkness that there is now a greater need of the Church's teaching office than ever before, lest people become unmindful both of conscience and of duty."
Testem Benevolentiae Nostrae, Pope L
Tolerance? No, cowardice by another name.
17. Is any one of Us not aroused by the words God speaks to Us through the prophet Ezechiel: "Son of man, I have given you as a guide to the house of Israel: and you shall hear a word from my mouth, and you shall proclaim to them from me. If when I say to the wicked, you shall die the death, YOU DO NOT PROCLIAM IT TO HIM....the wicked man shall die in his iniquity but I shall look for his blood from your hand.'' I confess this statement startles me and prevents me from being slothful and fearful in executing the demands of my office. I promise and swear that I will always be not only your helper and supporter, but your chief and leader.
Diu Satis, Encyclical Of Pope Pius VII, promulgated on the 15th of May, 1800, Venice.
Thank you for choosing a song by Guy Sebastian, I'm sure he will be an inspiration, as he always is.
I know I have become far more tolerant of others, returned to the Church, learnt to re-appreciate our youth, and endeavoured to become more humble, as Guy himself is, since knowing him.
It seems this incredible young man, who has stood strong in his chosen career field (not known for fostering those with strong morals, and fine thoughts) despite all that has been thrown at him by such as here, and media, keeps growing in strength and spreading his love of all people.
Anyone who had doubts, after his recent concerts at the Sydney Opera House with the Australian Philharmonic Orchestra & choir, would have found them totally dispelled as after he sang "Falling in Love With Jesus" he lifted his eyes and clearly said "Thank you".
Guy Sebastian is one of the finest and strongest young men I have had the pleasure to come across in all my years. Unfortunately, it will also always be his load to carry, comments such as those above. Also I have noticed it is one of the unfortunate side effects of "arrival via competition", even tho it is almost 5 years ago.
He will no doubt become "Taller Stronger and Better" than before, as he asks us to be.
Thank you sirs, I'm sure this song will surpass all that you expect of it. And him.
Andrew, you said
"Furthermore, all other religions other than Catholicism are false religions. They aren't revealed by God, so you can't expect the Truth to come out as fully as It does with the Catholic Church"
As a non catholic christian I am very offended by that. There are many christian churches in the world, which are not catholic. Your own church must accept that, or they would not have allowed non catholic songwriters to submit their songs.In fact Guy was asked to submit a song after the original ones were found not to be suitable. To state what you have is very arrogant, considering that Christ himself was not a Catholic or even a Christian for that matter. He was brought up as a Jew.
This quote is taken directly from this site from the CNA link about the hymn and also Guy.
".Sydney, May 16, 2007 / 01:20 pm (CNA).- The official hymn for World Youth Day in 2008 has just been chosen. “Receive the Power” is the title of the official hymn for the celebration of the 23rd World Youth Day in Sydney. The song was written by young Australian composer Guy Sebastian. “We were looking for a hymn which would be involving and inspiring”, WYD 2008 co-ordinator Bishop Anthony Fisher OP explained.
“Above all it had to be a song which would fill the young participants with enthusiasm and capture the essence of the World Youth Day theme chosen by the Pope: You will receive the power of the Holy Spirit which will descend upon you and you will be my witnesses. Guy's song meets with all these requisites: it inspires the youth of the world to accept Jesus' call to follow him to the ends of the earth as his witnesses. ”
Receive the Power was chosen after a selection process involving over 120 pieces. The Pontifical Council for the Laity, which is involved in preparations for WYD on the part of the Holy See, is in agreement with the choice of the hymn. “It combines the necessary musical and thematic elements as well as being easy to sing for people of different languages. We are convinced that Receive the Power WYD hymn will be played and sung by young Catholics everywhere on the occasion of World Youth Day and from then on”, the Bishop said.
Australian composer singer Guy Sebastian made a name for himself in 2003, when he started composing music for his parish at the age of thirteen. In 2005, Guy was nominated World Vision Ambassador and went to Uganda to film a documentary on the difficulties people face there due to poverty and civil war. He has also written numerous songs for Australian singers."
This is slightly inaccurate as he was not of course 13 in 2003, but 21. Here are two Youtube links to hymns Guy sang in 2004 at his church. The first "Hosana" was written by his older brother Ollie. The second "Adore" by Guy himself. His voice has matured in the last 3 years and is now simply stunning. He is a gifted songwriter and singer. He is also a committed christian. Why don't you let his voice and music speak for him.
Simon,
Whoa you do really mean it when you call yourself an "Evil Trad"
I kept seeing you over at Hilary's place. But you weren't so, so, exclusive.
Firstly, I agree that "Catholics" who don't believe in all the doctrines of the Church, should stop calling themselves Catholic, or amend their beliefs and reconcile with God and Church. If not, find a church that is in more communion with their own beliefs,live with the consequences and leave the rest of us alone.
Having agreed with you on that, I find your tone uncharitable. You are well read. But I fear you lack wisdom and charity.
The open hostility you have to Catholics who are not traditionalists does the catholic church and her traditions no good service.
These are the links to the songs I spoke of in my previous comment. Hosana written by his brother Ollie, and Adore written by Guy. As I said let his voice and music speak for him. He will not be preaching to your catholic youth.
Hosana
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j...h?
v=jDUW1Qr15M8
Adore
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s...h?
v=sSNMENXG3fY
As a non catholic christian I am very offended by that. There are many christian churches in the world, which are not catholic. Your own church must accept that, or they would not have allowed non catholic songwriters to submit their songs.In fact Guy was asked to submit a song after the original ones were found not to be suitable. To state what you have is very arrogant, considering that Christ himself was not a Catholic or even a Christian for that matter. He was brought up as a Jew.
Outside the Church there is no Salvation. It's not offensive at all; nor is it arrogant. It's simply the Truth. And Christ fulfilled the Old Law - the Old Testament - so He is the Messiah of both the Jews and the Gentiles. How Christ was not a Christian is beyond me...
You continue to be arrogant Andrew. Like Simon-Peter Vickers-Buckley who spewed his vitriole at Anne, who apparently is more sinful than the nuns who abused her mother. I feel fortunate that my faith is far more forgiving of people than yours. Christ himself forgave those who tortured and nailed him to the cross. It is unfortunate that your religion is full of such intolerance and lack of concern for the fellow humans, christian or otherwise who walk this planet. I only hope that the people commenting here are not indicitive of all catholics. The term christian was not in use till after Christ died, Andrew. So no, I do not believe you could call Christ a Christian literally. He was the beginning of the Christian faith as it departed from the jewish faith, but he was in fact a Jew.
I'm not arrogant. I'm just restating in exact words what the Catholic Church (which Christ founded) teaches. It is dogma: Outside the Church there is no Salvation. I'm not the one making things up.
Lets agree to disagree Andrew. I will recognise your religion as a true religion, and you can recognise me as a heathen who will spend eternity in hell as will all other non catholic christians, and all non christians. Such a wonderful religion yours is Andrew, full of compassion, love, and tolerance, as Jesus taught. I think I prefer mine.
I never said any individual was going to Hell, and neither has the Church. Jesus did not tolerate sin. He was compassionate to those who repented of their sins.
Hey Meg,
You should consider asking Andrew to give a talk or sing a song at the next event which represents your protestant church.
After all you are loving and tolerant, aren't you? Oh, and I bet he's a great speaker and singer. Just let the music speak to you.
It shouldn't matter that he thinks your church is absolutely wrong in what it teaches, should it? Just put him right up on the big old stage. He probably won't mention that he thinks you and your church are wrong on stage but he did give an interview where he stated it publicly...
Headline: "Meg and her church are totally wrong in what they believe and they have missed the boat on what Christianity is about."
Yeah, that won't have any affect on anyone in your church. After all, you are loving and tolerant, aren't you?
Andrew, I hope you don't mind that I used you in the above example. I think the non-practicing and non-Catholics need to see a personal example of what we're trying to get across.
Anne,
It seems you are not going to hear any truth or reason from Catholics who know their Faith since you know all of the answers already. You my friend are in a state of mortal sin, it's no wonder you can't think clearly.
I don't blame you totally since you probably have rarely heard or learned of the beautiful truths and treasures of our Catholic faith therefore you have had to pick and choose your own path along your life. Like most you have heard and been taught dissent, lies, and distorted half truths. Sadly, this is a common state right now.
Just for the record...I am far, far from Australia (24hr flight) and it's just silly to imply that I'm lying about knowing of Guy Sebastian. Also, for the record I am a Registered Nurse so I am very familiar with the pill and its abortifacient effects. Ovulation is not always suppressed so as a back-up the pill makes it impossible for the newly conceived child to implant into the mother's womb. Look it up..this info. is all over the internet.
Anne, you are on the wrong path. Let your guard down and find out the Truths about life found in your Catholic faith. This blog site has many books, websites, blogs, etc that will lead you to Jesus and His Cathlic Church.
Puff: I have NO IDEA of what you are speaking, none. I have NEVER called myself an "evil trad" and have had frequent recourse to deny the appelation "trad" on my own and other blogs. If I am such a "trad" then you need to explain why I have been engaging "them" in no uncertain terms for the past month, in one post, but two days ago comparing "their" attitude to women to the Taliban.
I have not been to Ms. Whites blog for about 8 weeks and I have no intention of so doing.
As to you and Meg, your opinions are supremely irrelevant. An instrument has yet to be devised that can measure my indifference to you or your fellow-travellers.
Meg: you, my lady, are a typical jamming-liberal, viz "spewed his vitriole (sic) [what phrase book did you get that from?] at Anne" and "apparently is more sinful than the nuns." Eisegesis Meg? Projection? How Prot.
No Meg, I cited dogma and the actual words of the Vicars of Christ and in one case incorporated by reference the First Vatican Council.
Meg, your jamming is the fruit of your worldview and pathological unwillingness to confront reality.
There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church unless a. a man is invincibly ignorant (ignorant through no fault of this own) of the claims of the Catholic Church to be the ordinary exculsive means of salvation, b. he worship God according to the law written on the heart of every man, and c. he die not in mortal sin.
What are the spiritual works of mercy? Who will require the blood of the unjust from my hands if I do NOT warn him?
Humility is the root of Charity, humility subsists in truth, and this is why, your so-called tolerance and openness is false - false humility, false charity. You are the very ones I have been warning about for months: those who are so blind and so proud they actually believe themselves sincere; what incredible presumption, outrageous puffery, what abysmal hubris!
The Spiritual Works of Mercy: To admonish sinners. To instruct the ignorant. To counsel the doubtful. To comfort the sorrowful. To bear wrongs patiently. To forgive all injuries. To pray for the living and the dead.
In case you have forgotten, those who (knowingly) reject Peter, reject Jesus and the One Who sent Him. Does Mr. Sebastian, a material heretic and schismatic knowingly reject the Catholic Church, the ordinary and exclusive means of salvation? Is he therefore a formal heretic and schismatic? Why on earth any Catholic would think it is acceptable to have such a man anywhere near or associated with the sacramental and teaching life of the Church in so far as that is present during any World Youth Day is part of the mystery of iniquity. It is Mr. Sebastian that needs to hear from you if you actually loved him to will his good.
He that heareth you, heareth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me, despiseth him that sent me. Luke 10:16.
He that receiveth you, receiveth me: and he that receiveth me, receiveth him that sent me. Matt. 10:40.
Amen, amen, I say to you, he that receiveth whomsoever I send, receiveth me; and he that receiveth me, receiveth him that sent me. John 13:20.
He that loveth me not, keepeth not my words. And the word which you have heard, is not mine; but the Father's who sent me. John 14:24.
As thou [Father] hast sent me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. John 17:18.
He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. John 20:21.
Thus some humanitarians only care for pity; and their pity (I am sorry to say) is often untruthful. For example, Mr. Blatchford attacks Christianity because he is mad on one Christian virtue: the merely mystical and almost irrational virtue of charity. He has a strange idea that he will make it easier to forgive sins by saying that there are no sins to forgive. Mr. Blatchford is not only an early Christian, he is the only early Christian who ought really to have been eaten by lions. For in his case the pagan accusation is really true: his mercy would mean mere anarchy. He really is the enemy of the human race -- because he is so human...[what] we suffer from to-day is humility in the wrong place. Modesty has moved from the organ of ambition. Modesty has settled upon the organ of conviction; where it was never meant to be. A man was meant to be doubtful about himself, but undoubting about the truth; this has been exactly reversed. Nowadays the part of a man that a man does assert is exactly the part he ought not to assert -- himself. The part he doubts is exactly the part he ought not to doubt -- the Divine Reason.
Andrew, I hope you don't mind that I used you in the above example. I think the non-practicing and non-Catholics need to see a personal example of what we're trying to get across.
Haha, I don't mind. Don't worry. I'm not a very good singer, but if I did do that, I would sing some Gregorian chant for 'em.
c. he die not in mortal sin. - I would just add a qualification: that he would have to be repentant and contrite if he did die in mortal sin.
Simon-Peter, I apologise, I confused you with one of her supporters. I stand corrected on the EVIL TRAD bit. You are not.
You continue to be arrogant Andrew. Like Simon-Peter Vickers-Buckley who spewed his vitriole at Anne, who apparently is more sinful than the nuns who abused her mother. I feel fortunate that my faith is far more forgiving of people than yours.
Luke 18:10-14:
"Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, `God, I thank thee that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, I give tithes of all that I get.' But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, `God, be merciful to me a sinner!' I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for every one who exalts himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted."
To the intolerant posters in this thread, all you do is give people a reason to have a negative view of Catholics.
Well, let's have a look at some nuggets from the Apostles of Tolerance:
From "PraiseGod": Deborah - If you are looking for Mr or Ms perfect then you won't find anyone.
From Anne: You should read the bible more carefully and if you did you would realise Christ himself did not try and tear down others. I think he would be frowning on the two of you at the moment.
Also from Anne: You are very bitter, angry people. So sad you didn't spend more time doing good in the world like Guy, and less time casting stones....I have better things to do with my time than argue with bigots.
Also from Anne: I supplied my email address, and would even print it here, if I was not sure I would receive many irate emails from the very christian, tolerant people here who would object to the fact that as a catholic I will not agree to turn my back on every gay person I have ever met, worked with, or become friends with.
From PraiseGod: I have lovely memories of working with an amazing Catholic nun, when I worked out west with the aboriginal children, to remind me that not all Catholics are as nasty and exclusive as those contributing to this forum..
From Meg: I feel fortunate that my faith is far more forgiving of people than yours. Christ himself forgave those who tortured and nailed him to the cross. It is unfortunate that your religion is full of such intolerance and lack of concern for the fellow humans, christian or otherwise who walk this planet. I only hope that the people commenting here are not indicitive of all catholics.
Also from Meg: Such a wonderful religion yours is Andrew, full of compassion, love, and tolerance, as Jesus taught. I think I prefer mine.
I'm sure glad we have people out there fighting the good fight against intolerance and judgmentalism!
"You should consider asking Andrew to give a talk or sing a song at the next event which represents your protestant church."
Why do you Deborah, and so many other people here assume that anyone who has not stating they are catholic is a protestant. I have never said which faith I follow. There are many christian faiths. Not just Catholic and Protestant. As to Guy giving a talk, that is not happening. He has only written the hymn and will sing it at its unveiling. I would rather not ask Andrew to sing at our next church event, but thanks for the offer. My preference would be to ask a person who is kind, tolerant, and full of love for God and the rest of the people on this planet. Oh and of course with a beautiful voice that was meant to sing hymns. That person of course is Guy.
"There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church unless a. a man is invincibly ignorant"
And did God write these words Simon-Peter Vickers-Buckley, or someone from your Church many years ago. Forgive me if you stated who did, as I