AmericanPapist Comments
I am curious. What "ecclesiastical requirement" is there to remove the remains of anyone against their expressed and imperative will?
And you are aware that the context in the UK is that the gay lobby there is certain that Card. Newman and Fr St John were 'more' than 'just' friends?
How about they leave the heart with Rev. St. John, sumbolic?
Why are they moving the remains anyway? Just asking.
Marc,
Unfortunately, I gotta say that Newman's impassioned insistence looks darned suspicious.
That is not to say that there is any proof of a sexual relationship. It would be hard to prove that one way or another. But I think that it may be very strong evidence that Newman may have had romantic feelings for his friend. I don't think its unlikely at all that he could have had a homosexual orientation and was passionately in love with St. John even if he happened to remain celibate.
If I make Heaven, or even Purgatory, I could not care less where they bury me.
Ed, while I agree with your sentiment, if it's all the same to y'all, I think I'll stick to the Catholic cemetary.
My great grandchildren will probably just otherwise stick me in the vegetable garden to try and fertilize the Wholly Roma Tomatoes.
Anglican Peggy, I have to say I haven't seen anything like evidence anent a putative homosexual relationship between JHN and ASJ. Every text source I've read that seems to me susceptible to that inference--seems to me also susceptible to being Victorian sentimental prose. I don't think that one 'happens to remain celibate', in any event: so if per hypothesim a letter surfaces that confirms that JHN or ASJ or both were homosexual in orientation I expect that it will also confirm his or their commitment to living life chastely, according to the priestly state of life.
WRC, okay, just as long as they don't watch Soylent Green when your time comes.
It would seem that their common embrace of celibacy both before and after their entrances into the Church constitutes the only evidence of their sexual proclivities. The rest is just another post-modern sexualizing fairy tale.
The rest is just another post-modern sexualizing fairy tale.
Well said. Ya can't win against a metanarrative that says that 99.9% of the population is homosexual but most of us are repressing it. My denial of the need for therapy just proves how much I need therapy. Yuck.
Or, as C.S. Lewis put it in his book "The Four Loves": They cite the lack of evidence as proof that the fire is well-hidden. Their problem is that they haven't proven the fire.
I gotta say that Newman's impassioned insistence looks darned suspicious.
Why is that?
I mourn the fact the a growing segment of the population cannot see the friendship of others as more anything utilitarian or sexual.
Why not friendship for friendship? Why can't it just be what it is: self-sacrificing concern for the good of another?
Meant "I mourn the fact that a growing segment of the population cannot see the friendship of others as anything more than utilitarian or sexual.
I agree David - it seems to be a modern phenomenon to dismiss all friendship as being sexual at base. Those who insist a friendship has no sexual undercurrent are considered to be in a state of denial. It really is pitiful.
My thoughts exactly, David and Tim....
Why can't Ambrose St. John's body be moved with Newman's and buried somewhere in the Birmingham Oratory? Just a thought....
Well said Tim and irishgirl,
Just to be clear for others, I am not lumping Anglican Peggy in with people who have the view I was discussing.
I apologize to her if she found my comment to be offensive, and I do not wish to attack commentators on American Papist.
Whatever Cardinal Newman's orientation was is completely irrelevant. We need not even talk about this. There is no evidence either way. (I find it disheartening that people would consider it suspicious that he had a deep love for his friend) No matter what; there is extreme evidence that he was chaste.
Well, I think a key question has yet to be addressed: why is the translation of the remains mandated?
The translation of the mortal remains is standard practice when it is a question of, ahem, raising someone to the altars, which phrase has both the literal and the figurative senses. In any event, it has nothing whatever to do with the nonsense that UK media/'gay' activists are concerned about with respect to JHN and ASJ et al.
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