AmericanPapist Comments
He's no Cardinal Egan. Tom
I'll take the bishophric "me too". Overall, the official response to this has been amazing to me. I never expected that the sleeping giants of american catholicism could really be roused. now, will they stay awake?
"It's something."
Yeah, it sure is something alright. It took a guy from New York who is not connected in any way to Pelosi or the convention (i.e., not from DC, Denver, or SF) to deliver the most sensible yet stinging retort to Madame Speaker.
Something from Neiderauer expected in the Archdiocesan newspaper, according to Rocco.
Color me surprised. It's more than I was expecting.
Our strategic objective is to eliminate the murder of any person from moment of conception to moment of death.
Frankly, the US Catholic Church has not done a consistent and strategic plan to accomplish this.
The roll-out statements from assorted persons is, in my view, counter-effective.
This is not the most opportune time for us to be jumping into a political debate; an interjection into a Political Party Convention. I think we literally cashed in our chips some time ago.
For example, will various hierarchs make press releases against those Catholic members of the Republican Party who support the unjust war in Iraq?
If the Democrats win in November, then they will we have an effective voice in policy?
Is the objective of the Abs. of Denver, Chicago, Washington DC, New York, et al to defeat the Democratic Party's Nominee for President of the United States of America?
If so, then let them say so. If you mean yes then say yes; if no, then say no. You can not have it both ways.
Bishops are in a peculiar position when they pontificate on matters sexual.
Please remember the seamless garment. The garment that Jesus wore.
That statement from Abp. Niederauer on Friday had better be REALLY REALLY good.
And, at this point, REALLY REALLY good has got to be outright denial of Holy Communion --or something close to it--until she renounces her babykilling policy.
I'm in the PR/communications trade. In this situation, with an issue of this magnitude, a 24-hr. turnaround with a butt-kicking statement (such as Abp. Chaput issued) is MANDATORY. Otherwise, the other guys win.
Odds that Niederauer will make such a statement? Fifty-fifty. It's what we've come to expect from him. In this situation, that's not good enough.
For starters, the war in Iraq is not "unjust" by ANY traditional Catholic just war theories. Not if you consider the offensive campaigns of LePanto or the lifting of the seige of Vienna...or JPII's praise of the Polish division that fought on the outskirts of Monte Casino "in defense of their homeland" (that was 1000 miles away).
And while the Pope and bishops naturally had to come out for peace, and make personal statements of their opinion, none of them actually stated "this war is unjust based on Catholic teaching X, Y, AND Z" which they would have done if a legitimate argument could have been made.
Secondly, in the conduct of the war (In bello) we have not made it a policy to target completely innocent, completely defenseless civilians; virtually all the carnage is caused by the enemy, not by us.
Librals are COMPLETELY OK with abortion that does in fact kill the completely innocent and defenseless among us at numbers 10 times those hurt by US military action in Iraq.
So apples to apples, abortion is a far worse crime, far greater loss of life than war is. And a vote for Obama will continue the slaughter of the innocent while not noticiably reducing the action in Iraq (where we'll have won by Jan. 2009).
But you knew that already.
Abortion is NEVER justified. War (and capital punishment) sometimes can be. Now if you assert that this war is not justified, give us the REASONS based on specific Catholic doctrine and tradition, quote then chapter and verse for us, not peoples' OPINIONS. It's not a matter of opinion that abortion is ALWAYS wrong and those in favor of it are WRONG.
I agree that the hierarchy can do more but the inside baseball turmoil of the chanceries, the liberal orders, the official bureaucracies and 200 odd CINO "Catholic universities" that shelter various sundry left-wing positions as "within the spectrum of legitimate Catholic diversity" is what waters down and hamstrings the Church more than any sex-scandal.
It's those folk who run interference and put up local smokescreens to protect pro-abort politicians and keep the Church from mobilizing lay people to shut down the clinics. But their days are numbered...Gen-Xers are coming and we're not gonna take this Boomer nonsense for much longer.
John said: "Gen-Xers are coming and we're not gonna take this Boomer nonsense for much longer."
8-)
For starters, the war in Iraq is not "unjust" by ANY traditional Catholic just war theories.
Not to ignite a brawl for which I have no time, but -- yes it is.
We're talking about Pelosi and abortion. Let's not change topics.
And for the record: Niederauer issuing his statement on Friday is PERFECT-- it keeps the story in the news through the end of the Democratic convention.
LCB, I doubt strategic timing was behind the good archbishop's timing. It is very disappointing that as Ms Pelosi's bishop, he didn't address her directly, but hid behind other people's words.
As for Iraq... the point about just war theory is that every war is a prudential judgment. War is not always and everywhere a moral evil(althought it is always regrettable). The justice of this particular war is a matter of debate. While I'm not totally convinced it is just, I find the application of just war theory against it to be much weaker. The Popes have been rightly reluctant to pick sides; that doesn't mean the war is unjust, nor is a pope's opinion, as important as it is, doctrine.
In any case, abortion is always and everywhere evil: There is no debate: It is a matter of doctrine and justice: Abortion is always incompatible with Catholic faith and praxis. War generally may or may not be, and this war may or may not be.
Hey, John, don't put all of us Boomers under one umbrella, please.
Perhaps Abp. Niederauer is giving her an opportunity to retract her ill-considered words before lowering the boom?
Since this is her home diocese, I wonder if he is speaking to her, giving her the opportunity to repent, before being forced to bar her from communion....
A guy can hope, right?
Romulus, you're brain dead. I guess you are a supporter of human shredders, rape rooms, and suicide bombers. Those folks are certainly not worth saving. You're just another fake Catholic who'd probably condemn Jesus Christ Himself who scourged the money changers from the temple. Talk about an extremist by your standards! Tom
By the way, Dems = Nazis who were very big supporters of abortion! Congratulations, Call to Action Catholics, you're in great company. Tom
There is finally an original statement up on the "Catholic San Francisco" website. It's not from Archbishop Niederauer, but by Rick Del Vecchio, a reporter for the paper.
http://www.catholic-sf.org/
FPArt...FPArticle14.htm
I have to feel sorry for her Bishop. HYe's the bishop of the modern day Sodom and Gamorrah. There are few places that I, were I a bishop (I'm not even a cleric), would find to be worse. (No disrespect to the good solid catholics of that diocease.)
This is a bishop needing support and prayers.
Commenting by HaloScan
