AmericanPapist Comments
Honestly, Tom, who cares?
Is McCain pro-contraception? Probably.
Would most of the GOP nominees be pro-contraception? Probably.
So what? She's not a practicing Catholic. (baptized RC as a baby, family left for other pastures, yes, but)..so it really doesn't matter
Actually, McCain doesn't seem to have a public position on contraception and he seems to be pro-abstinence education. Right now some blaming Palin's daughter's pregnancy on a lack of access to contraception, so Palin's own views regarding legislation and the free access to contraceptives might well be influenced by her position on the topic.
So yes... I think it matters.
Being pro-contraception and pro-life is pretty common in Protestant circles, so I'm not surprised.
yes, it would surprise me if it turns out palin is anything but pro-contraception. and her non-denominational status makes it even more difficult to guess where she might stand.
I think this is a non-issue. People can blame Bristol's pregnancy on a lack of contraception, but we don't really know. None of us were present when this act of intercourse took place, and for all we know, they may have had a condom or something.
Lack of access... pshaw! Alaska is not the third world. I'm sure they could have gotten a condom at the local 7-11, Circle-K or from the bathroom of a sleazy gas station.
The truth of the matter is, Bristol and here boyfriend are teens with raging hormones and they made a poor decision. Free-will enters the equation here, and teens like all kids disobey or deviate from their parents wishes at some point.
The fact that we are even discussing various types of sex-ed and access to contraception is asinine and how it affects Sarah Palin. This act of intercourse was a decision Bristol and the boy made, not Gov. Palin.
Like the other commenters, I would not be surprised that Palin (and McCain) are pro contraception, but that will not persuade me to refrain from voting for them. I can't expect a Protestant to be completely aligned with the teachings of the Church, and the alternative - which is a man who sees nothing wrong with letting a newborn die of exposure - is far worse.
I'll take what I can get. In politics, that's all I would expect.
Protestants like Dr. Dobson believe contraception is OK within marriage. Outside of it NO. Nothing new there if Gov. Palin has a similar view. Yes, we can hardly expect non-Catholics to get it, when the majority of Catholics don't either!
I believe it's been shown that Bristol got a 'traditional' - as in, 'normal sex-ed' training in her public school. So while Mom was pro-abstinence only education, daughter got the "education" the liberals claim works SO well in preventing teen pregnancy...
Overturn Griswold!
Hey Tom,
Feminists for Life is a pro-contraception, anti-abortion group. Patricia Heaton from Hollywood has been the leader of the organization, and that is what she says.
Considering that the large majority of Protestants have no problem with contraception, it would be no surprise if she is. Plus we probably have had no Pres or VP in modern times that was actually against contraception, sad as that is.
I can't cite the source, but I read that Mrs. Palin not against cotraception as long as the method was not one that was an abortificent(sp?).
I'd be very, very surprised if she was not pro-contraception. Contraception is pretty much a non-issue in Protestant circles, except there is some concern about abortifacients and over-promotion in schools. Only Catholics debate whether contraception at all is licit.
If a large majority of young, married Catholics today also have no problem with contraception, will the leaders of the Church start teaching the truth on this subject too, as they have this past week on abortion? Isn't it about time the leaders in the Church speak up and fearlessly teach the truth?
Wait, you don't understand how someone could be against sex education and passing out contraception in schools, but be for contraception in general?
Really?
That's a real head scratcher, yeah?
Hmmmm...maybe she thinks parents should be the ones dispensing the contraception.
Radical, I know.
http://www.zencast.com
For anyone interested in sermons at one of Sarah Palin's churches.This link was found at http://www.spiritdaily.com
Most pro-life Protestants don't see any problem with a married couple using contraception. However, they don't want unmarried kids given contraception because it is seen as an endorsement of pre-marital sex. They want kids to be taught to wait until marriage to have sex, and then at that point, they use contraception for family planning.
When I was a Protestant, I had no concept of the natural law moral theology that is behind the Catholic prohibition against contraception. There was no explicit Biblical prohibition of contraception, so it was considered a non-issue. I now see conservative Protestant moral theology as rather simplistic, and I could never make sense of liberal Protestant moral theology. It wasn't until I started learning Catholic moral theology (starting with Peter Kreeft) that I found something that made sense, and could provide answers to complex real-world issues.
I find this question and resulting conversation interesting for two reasons.
All "contraception" is not the same. Many forms are abortifacients. It certainly is an important issue to know where a politician stands. The "so what" responses seem to miss this. A true Pro-Life stance would be concerned that "contraception" at times works to terminate embryos.
On the other hand, the "so what" folks bring up that Palin is not a Catholic and therefore the issue is not relevant. The Catholic Church does not view it's teaching on contraception as sectarian/doctrinal (hard to find the right way to word this). Rather, as someone pointed out, it arises from Natural Law, the use of sense experience and reason, to which all people have access and are accountable. Just read the opening chapters of Paul's letter to the Romans for an examination of that accountability. The use of ABCs is an objectively evil act, regardless of whether someone believes in Jesus or that the Pope is His Vicar. That is not something to shrug off as a Catholic peculiarity that Palin should be unaware of.
Thanks for raising the question!
Accontability: well, the Democrats are pro abortion, pro contraception, pro anything that prevents or gets rid of pregnancy....
McCain and Palin are basically pro life.
I'm voting for the pair most likely to move this country in a pro life direction!
This question is lame. Whether she is pro-contraception or not, she is still very, very awesome and should be voted for.
Peadar - while I am sure you're correct from a moral theology point of view, I don't think it would be reasonable or prudent to start a political fight over contraception. In order of gravity, I would think that abortion ranks higher than contraception as a public evil we should work to eliminate. The battle against abortion is difficult enough in the public square; launching a battle against contraception, especially when many other conservative denominations and religions do not share the Catholic Church's view, unlike abortion, would be fruitless.
Frank,
I think you are right with regard to the prudence of raising the question of contraception in American political life. What I found intriguing was the conversation that ensued, where supposedly Catholic posters seemed to deny certain aspects of the Catholic Church's teaching on contraception.
While all contraception is objectively evil, there is a difference between using a condom and using an IUD which is in abortifacient. In that regard, we need to evaluate a candidate's views on contraceptive devices that are abortifacients (not only the IUD but in many cases the Pill), since they cannot gain "Pro-Life" bona fides supporting some kinds of abortions. The same goes for those who support abortion for rape and incest. In some ways, that is a more damaging position than the extreme pro-abortion position. At least those advocating for access to abortion don't believe they are terminating human life. For a candidate to claim (and many do) that abortion ends a human life but in spite of that they support abortion for rape and incest is so problematic as to disqualify them for office. Where will they stop for political expedience?
Peadar, a lot of folks using the pill are totally ignorant of the abortafacient properties of it. Their doctor didn't tell them about that, and the product insert does a good job of beating around the proverbial bush.
Chris,
You are correct. The abortifacient properties of the Pill are often elided when it is being prescribed. I think that can limit the culpability of couples who use the Pill without knowing that they may be discarding embryos. For a politician to be ignorant of this fact is inexcusable. They are not making a personal decision but a policy decision--one that will have an impact on a large number of people. It is inconceivable that a politician who claims to be Pro-Life would not know this. Again, further reason to think that this is a good question to ask and not a "who cares" or an obscure issue only for Catholics. Without a clear stance on this, a "Pro-Life" identity is a sham. You can't claim that human life begins at conception and believe that contraception is okay without making important distinctions about the methods.
Sarah Palin and John McCain are MORE pro life than any other viable candidates we have.
So arguing that they are not pro life enough to be considered pro life is a moot point.
Pro life Catholics really haven't another candidate to vote for unless those Catholics are choosing to ignore Church teaching on abortion and using the imperfect pro life stances of these candidates as an excuse to do so.
Yes, we, believing Catholics are aware of the abortifacient side of some socalled contraceptives. I think some fundamentalist Protestants are, but not by any means all. I think peadar, you are expecting too much from a politician, when most pastors of fundamentalist churches are not aware of this! Why aren't they aware? Because of censorship by the media and doctors and a lack of contact (meaning lack of evangelization by believing Catholics) with aware Catholics. Yes, Palin would be a good candidate for evagelization in this area, but you are really out of line to expect her to somehow get this Truth when people like Biden and Pelosi who attend Mass and receive Communion don't. Even Dr. Dobson doesn't. You have to realize it takes a lot of grace for a Protestant to get this because it could also means that their whole protestant faith is on the line, if they do accept that contraception is immoral.
Jesus Christ still isn't running for President or any other elected office last time I checked!
I used to be one of those ignorant, fundamentalist Protestants. The few Catholics I ever met showed no interest in Jesus and some lived and spoke like pagans! I am sorry, but a LOT of Catholics are like that and if that is the only "Catholic Bible" non-Catholics ever encounter, they can't be held too accountable by God.
Yes, it is objectively evil,and Protestants ignorant of this teaching will still suffer the ill effects. I think it is very interesting that you should expect non-Catholics to realize that it is evil.
God expects the Church to evangelize everyone and if Her message is censored, muddled and stifled, and if a great number of individual members do not witness, do you think God is going to suddenly give every non-Catholic a special revelation without going through the ordinary channels of evangelization, person to person? Everything is possible with Him, but it doesn't seem to likely to happen.
By the way, I never said it wasn't immoral, so don't read things into my comments that aren't there.
Re: Pill as abortifacient
My understanding is that the paperwork that comes with the contraceptive pill mentions that it *could* be an abortifacient. Having said that, I have read articles from pro-contraceptive folks who argue that it is NOT an abortifacient. I'm not suggesting that they are right--I've seen too much not to recognize the abortifacient properties of the pill. I'm just saying that there are many folks out there who openly disagree (lie?) about the way the pill operates.
Yes, there are. The package insert for the pill up until 1987 had the three ways that the Pill is believed to stop pregnancy listed. After that year it was decided that all this information was just too burdening to women, so a much simplified insert was made.
No longer were all the side effects mentioned. On the old one, an 8 and half by eleven sheet FILLED front and back with all the side effects in a font so small that you just about had to have a magnifying glass to read it(with young eyes, too), had too much damning information and so it needed to be suppressed.
I used to have one such insert to show folks who didn't believe it. My own OB Gyn gave my info on the Pill which failed to make these 'details' clear. I complained to him that he was not informing women adequately.He hemmed and hawed that perhaps he should make it clear that implantation can be prevented when using it.
Ok, for starters, I'm an Aussie girl who likes her US politics (the results impact on us in all ways especially in the moral sphere)
I would like to think that they would be anti-contraception but at the end of the day in this world we live in, you are voting for the 'lesser of two evils' here and the difference between those two 'evils' are extreme IMHO.
Why not get your message through to Palin personally if possible, and get her to clarify her position to you? Encourage your readers to make the strongest pro-life leader/candidate understand why this issue is strongly linked to abortion (maybe she doesn't realise.) Voters have an obligation to inform those who represent them in politics, so do your bit there, as we all know contraception is a core issue in the culture of life.
Truthfully though, I don't see a strong link to her being rabidly pro-contraception..
But too much public discussion over this point that does not seem substantially proven at the end of the day, may have some Catholic voters who have always voted Democrat, given strange ammunition to 'strain out the knat and swallow the camel.' Believe me, I've seen it before.
Peadar:
You misread my (and perhaps others') meaning as being dismissive of Palin's possible pro contraception position.
I am an orthodox Catholic, and very pro life. I too believe the teachings of the Magisterium regarding contraception.
However, I think it is impractical to bring this issue to the political arena when we are fighting against abortion. I said before, I am willing to take Palin's anti abortion stance and sacrifice the contraception issue for now. We have many Protestant brothers and sisters who agree on this one issue. We do not want to fracture that solidarity by splitting hairs, in a political sense.
One step at a time.
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