AmericanPapist Comments
If you watch the video, the OD priest says once "in persona Christi" and the woman with the stole-scarf says "in persona Christay."
So the rule used by NPR is "I plus AY equals A" ... not sure if that's in my Latin grammar.
If you watch the report instead of reading it, you hear the Opus Dei priest use the correct Latin. We're looking at a transcription error. But the viewable news story is full of even funnier errors than the Latin.
The Womanpriest in question is celebrating "mass" in her home using a coffee table for the altar (I suspect it's not a consecrated coffee table, either). She sits on the couch during the pseudo-consecration and raises white wine in a ceramic goblet, as well as a big circle of what looks for all the world like pita bread (which is leavened). There are just so many cases of invalid matter going on here, it's great. Seriously--a woman "consecrating" leavened bread! Genius!
I think Jimmy Akin poked fun at some religion reporters a while back. I believe the post was titled: "Crows Ears and Karma-lite Nuns."
and it is still up. It is quite legitimate for Mr Swicord not to know Latin, but why did he not ask? Or why did an editor not ask?
There are just so many cases of invalid matter going on here, it's great.
Leavened bread valid - but illicit - matter. (Of course this assumes a validly ordained priest!) White wine is also valid - and licit - matter.
How is leavened bread valid matter? I thought the instructions were pretty clear on that one.
And if white wine's a go, then why have I never seen it used, except in this video?
Help?
Kate B.
The Eastern Rites use leavened wheat bread. It is licit and valid for them. For us it is illicit, but as long as it is wheat, still valid.
Red wine is "better" in a symbolic way than is white, because blood is red. In the Extraordinary Form of the Mass (Tridentine), wine is first used to purify the chalice, and then water. Older priests will tell you that it was usual to use white wine (for both consecration and purification), as it is less "sticky" and easier to clean out of a chalice. As long as the wine is made out of grapes, white, red, or rose whine is simply a preference.
NB: "rose whine" should be "rose wine". Freudian slip?
I agree that the reporter should not be expected to know the Latin phrases in question, but he really should have thought about checking them out before publishing. It is unfortunately typical of reporters, and people in general, not to do a little research in areas they are not clear about. My last name is constantly misspelled by people who just jump in without ever asking me how it's spelled. But then again, I am not sure myself.
Thanks for the info, Lauren P. Still not sure i understand the difference between licit and valid, here, but it's something to chew on. So I withdraw the comment about the quantities of invalid matter. But I still find the video hilarious.
Kate B.,
The basic difference is that if a sacrament is done invalidly, it doesn't actually happen (i.e. the bread does not turn into the Body of Christ or a person is not actually baptized). If it is done illicitly, it does happen, but in a way that is against the laws of the Church. The code of Canon Law and the Sacramentary, among other clarifying documents, are there to make sure that everyone knows what makes a sacrament both valid and licit (and,even, ideal)--which is the way you want them to be!
So if she were a man, she could consecrate leavened bread, but it wouldn't be a great thing for him to do so. Got it. Thanks!
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