AmericanPapist Comments
Anyone dumb enough to think that Buffy the Vampire Slayer actually has anything to do with Wicca rather than with continental philosophy or the greek virtues deserves to be lost to Wicca. Just because magic is portrayed does not make the occult the ideal. Joss Whedon is definitely a pluralist, but he's not adamantly anti-christian either. I detest the quick rush to blame the fantastic. One ought to be able to decipher the difference between the Golden Compass and Harry Potter rather than throwing babies out with bathwater.
That all being said, I never liked that inane Buffy show, but it has a bit more going for it than this critique seems to understand. The critique smacks of Cotton Mather or, closer yet, Monty Python.
One might as well ask if Sarah Michelle Gellar floats or weighs less than a duck (or gravy or really small rocks.)
Thomas, why did you give this article the time of day?
"Anyone dumb enough to think that Buffy the Vampire Slayer actually has anything to do with Wicca rather than with continental philosophy or the greek virtues deserves to be lost to Wicca."
I, sadly, have come across a few people who do believe and have gotten into Wicca because of this TV show. That's why I post it.
I almost found myself in a fist-fight for suggesting there were better blues bands than the Greatful Dead. (I didn't even say they were bad.) What does this have to do with anything? Basically, we drink so hard and deep from the pop-culture stream that we fly apart like a helicopter with its rear rotor shot off at that slightest whiff of criticism of anything we have sympathy for--revealing alot more about us than the critic. As Alan Bloom said, "Indignation is the soul's defense against doubts about one's own."
I know of two gals in my school who became "wiccan" because of Buffy and such.
Actually, a number of Catholic women in the US have been adopting Wiccan rituals for quite some time. Donna Steichen documents this in her book Ungodly Rage.
She describes a "Women and Spirituality" conference held at Mankato State University back in the mid 1980's:
On Sunday morning in the tax-supported student union building, three worship services were held: an ecumenical communion service conducted by a woman minister, a feminist liturgy and a Wiccan ritual... What they all had in common was a determination to worship a female deity....
A startling majority of the women in attendance appeared to be Catholics: nuns, ex-nuns, students and faculty members from Catholic women's colleges, parochial school teachers, staff members of Catholic bureaus and counseling agencies, parish administrators, campus ministers, laywomen from Catholic Newman Centers, even hospital chaplains.
At this same conference, Dr. Rosemary Radford Reuther gave the keynote entitled "Emerging Women-Church: The Challenge of Feminist Liturgical Communities."
Again, quoting Steichen's book:
Women-Church is "the ultimate Exodus," [Reuther] said, "from the powers and principalities of oppression...." It is essential that feminist spiritual communities be formed for "liturgy, for mutual support and spiritual growth." ...The group may combine several traditions, such as Christian, Jewish, Wiccan and shamanistic, but if it grows too large, it should be subdivided into smaller "circles." The "optimal number" for a circle is thirteen, "the size of a proper coven."
One more reason to be grateful to USD for rescinding the offer of a chair of theology to Reuther...
Oh, this is really funny. Not really, but ironic for me anyway. I was raised atheist, and while I watched Buffy, I loved Charmed which is about 3 sisters who are witches. So, in college (not that long ago) I took a course on Witchcraft (actually a for-credit class - History). And, oddly enough, the more they tried to make the Catholic Church look like the "bad guys" picking on the poor people who just wanted to worship their pagan gods in peace, the more intrigued I was by the Catholic Church and the more I had a sense that the Catholic Church held the Truth.
So, in an odd way, Wicca/Witchcraft brought me into the Church.
Thank God! :)
Thom, every Wiccan I've met in the flesh has been a fallen-away Catholic. My gut feeling is that it provides sanctuary for people who love and miss the ritualism of the Church, but like the moral 'freedom' of a 'make your own' religion. Also, of course, the element of magic appeals to those who feel powerless, which is where the danger primarily lies.
In a fun twist, the first Wiccans I knew were the ones from my prolife student group, years ago. Those kids took the 'Threefold Rule' seriously.
Scott W. I can understand your point, and I recognize the Bloom comment. As a matter of fact, your right we do fly apart like a helicopter missing a tail rotor when we see something we don't like. For example, my quick, terse reaction comes not of my love of the TV (which I don't really watch all that much, actually), but from a history of running into far too many Christians who have the mentality that the witches are plotting against them by planting their culture everywhere. This is doubtlessly true to some small, minute extent, but this simply cannot be the way the world works. Satan may have it in for us, but it is not through some massive, pop culture witch conspiracy. (Then again, if I think that it's too ridiculous to be believable, maybe he does.) Anything that smacks of conspiracy theory raises my hackles, and I apologize if I offended anyone with my earlier comments.
Oh, and Thomas, the comment of mine which you quoted in no way says anything about you. It does, however, say something about those who you've met that have "converted" because of the show. That's all I'm saying.
Frankly, they only place I see conspiracy being touted is on the other side. Like Church teaching on chastity is causing the spread of AIDS and what not. I have yet to meet any Catholics who think there is a deliberate conspiracy to paganize. I think a critical eye on article AmP linked suggests not a conspiracy, but a media normalization of occult/new age practice, which I don't think anyone can seriously deny. Joss Wheedon (and I like his Firefly series incidently) doesn't intend to get everyone cozy with occult practice. But that points to the most destructive non-conspiracy out there: that everything is subjective or relative.
I swear this sounds like something the Jack Chick crowd would seize on.
In my senior year of high school, I began trying to practice magic and learned about Wicca. My main reasons for doing so? I wanted a religion that had some impact on the physical world, where mystery was ok, and that had meaningful rituals that dated from before the 1960's. I'd grown up Southern Baptist, and we had NONE of that in my church (note: many Southern Baptist churches I've encountered do not have these problems, but all the ones I knew growing up did).
When I went to college, I found a wonderful high-church traditional Bible-believing Anglican parish, and any desire to do magic simply dried up. The ritual, the history, the incarnational life were all there.
Ironically, I had never seen Buffy until the year after I graduated from college. I enjoy the show, but it would definately be dangerous for some people, no doubt about it.
I've run into Wiccans who were originally members of all sorts of churches, or none. Generally they were either people who never got much serious exposure to serious religion, or who had had some kind of toxic experience with normal religions. There were also a few who just fell away, and happened to fall toward Wicca or other related occult religions.
There's long been a lot of talk about "goddess worship" in a lot of books, both fiction and nonfiction. Nowadays, you even see it in TV shows, movies, etc. So yeah, it's a problem that needs to be addressed in catechetics. But I honestly think it's more to be solved by giving young Catholics deeper grounding in prayer and living in God, than by freaking out about the occult stuff. (Though that's bad enough.) People wouldn't run to Wicca if they realized what they already have.
A lot of the draw for people tends to be the "feminist" aspect of Wicca. They are drawn to it because they tend to see Catholicism in particular, but also other faiths, as putting women in a second-class citizen position. The Catholic church espouses anything but that, but that is not the general idea out there.
I agree with Maureen that if people understood what the Church really stood for, they would not have any reason to leave. Who was it that said something like most people don't leave the Catholic church for what it stands for, but for what they THINK it stands for.
True feminism isn't making sure that we can do exactly everything that a man can do with the same degree of proficiency, but appreciating the complementarity of the sexes. God didn't make man and woman to be identical, but to show different aspects of what it means to be human. That's not a flaw, that's His design.
Panda Rosa,
My point exactly.
Scott W.,
good point. That is probably the bigger and more insidious problem, no? Pluralism begets such things I suppose. I feel chastened. I still say that the black-helicopter-types will jump at this sort of thing and say "see! see!" However, they really aren't the real problem are they? Sigh. Alright, I sense I'm a bit over the line here. Maybe I just don't get the draw of the occult or any of that nature worship stuff because I think it has the intellectual and clout of a gnat. (I know, I'm speciesist too.)
WEll I actually enjoyed BVS because it showed Good kicking the crap out of evil. Now grant it the morality of the show steadily decline and I'd use the phrase "well who isn't human" but that would be for the first three season's. The rest of the show just went down hill. Stick with the kicking the crap out of evil story line and you'll get a much better response!
I have a theory I'm working on that the whole pagan-normalizing thing "had" to happen because of the Protestant break-- that's why the Crystal Dragon Jesus type religions are so popular in fantasy. The Catholic Church appeals to a lot of the same things as paganisim.
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