AmericanPapist Comments
Finally someone who agrees that gardens and memorial statues are a ridiculous way for Catholics (or anyone really) to attempt healing the wounds and traumas of sexual abuse. Kudos to you for be willing to state it in a public forum.
I supposed it's not too late to put in for a perpetual adoration chapel in place of this zen garden? Wouldn't that make much more sense - prayer and fasting and adoration in reparation for sin?
How ugly.
Just... ugly.
What a total waste of time and money. And these are our shepherds?
I don't know, flowers always brighten
up my day, and perhaps if the victims struggling to survive could have received some heart-felt geniune repentence and alittle compassion from the not so average catholic, it might of helped alittle. A garden without shade, trees, flowers,and beauty is very healing.BUT OFCOURSE, EVEN THIS IN THE PRESENCE OF AN ABSIVE PERSON DEFEATS THE PEACE.
...sorry,i ment to say a garden WITH flowers,trees, and shade IS HEALING unless in the presense of an ABUSIVE person.
The place looks like a big, inverted bushel basket...
"Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket.."
You are right Thomas...this is so insulting to victims of abuse because if it will look like this, it will be so ugly and COLD...without any feelings or beauty... much like the way the Church has been treating the genuine victims.
And it looks like Jesus is caged behind bars in the photo. In fact, the whole thing looks like a big cage to me, with Jesus looking in from the outside.
It's the upended boat thing I object. Not that that will matter for when the Gospels first enter the space, all will change.
As to the other thing, there is many a tree dead in the time that the Church has been around. While those that were hurt will be remembered for the rest of time.
http://www.madmaxmovies.com/
arch...erdomeThugs.jpg
In fact, it looks a little like a really big Thunderdome. (Image linked above, if the link works.)
The Catholic Cathedral in Liverpool is known to the locals as "Paddy's Wigwam" -
http://infomotions.com/gallery/
m...cathedral.shtml
- I wonder if the architect of Oakland was influenced by this in any way? :-)
The new catedral looks unique and innovative to me. A very dignified building perfectly fit for worship. Well I don't see what is so terrible about a little garden. I guess some people hate gardens and want forget about the horrible sexual assault of minors by priests and the poorly executed coverup by the heirarchy of the Catholic Church.
How...ugly (I second that, LCB).
Fuinseoig-I've been in 'Paddy's Wigwam'. I have a priest-friend in England who was ordained by JPII in 1982. "Paddy" Kelly was his Bishop in Salford (Manchester) Diocese. My friend took me to see both the 'Wigwam' and the [much nicer-looking] Anglican Cathedral in 1999.
With regards to the garden-I would rather see a Perpetual Adoration chapel (as John said) instead of this zen garbage.
Apologia Per Topiaria????
Yuck. I detest modern architecture.
And I agree with John and Irishgirl that an Adoration chapel would make much more sense for this particular "memorial." Even if they did have their hearts set on having a garden, couldn't they at least make it a nice looking garden? Where people would be encouraged to pray and not just walk right through it which is what the people appear to be doing in the concept photo? Actually it kind of looks like a poorly done maze.
I'm not a huge fan of the cathedral design, but can we please not take our difference of taste out on Bishop Vigneron?
He is a strong defender of the faith, founding a confraternity of Eucharistic devotion, urging penance and reparation on the anniversary of Roe v. Wade and participating actively in the Walk for Life West Coast, speaking out in defense of marriage in the face of the California "gay marriage" movement, and more. And he's only been around Oakland a few years - he arrived after the initial design of the cathedral was in place.
The cathedral architecture is certainly speaking in a modern idiom, but it is designed as a living catechism just as our beloved cathedrals of old. The vocabulary, both ancient and modern, may take some getting used to.
Light (as in the Easter Vigil proclamation "Christ, our light") is the main architectural element and symbol of Christ. The building's overall shape is a 3D rendering of the vesica piscis, the intersection of two circles, a very traditional symbol of the hypostatic union. The Christ figure on the omega window prominent in the picture above is a high tech rendering of the image of Christ in the portal of the Chartres Cathedral in France.
There are planned many devotional chapels in the cathedral, including an adoration chapel behind the tabernacle in the sanctuary. The design revives the medieval practice of locating the ambo in the choir. I wish I could recount from memory some of the other interior design elements, which clearly demonstrated a love of ancient and traditional forms.
Yes, this is a modern cathredral, using modern means to tell the ancient story of our faith. Oakland is very literally a modern diocese, established in 1962 as Vatican II was about to begin.
So while some of us might prefer the beautiful cathedrals of old (I am one of them), let's not poo-poo architecture that's not to our taste but rather commend the efforts of the bishop to speak about our unchanging faith to the modern world. We Catholics do not retreat into the past but rather speak the gospel to every generation, in the name of Christ who makes all things new.
Michaelus and Laura K-- those two comparisons are eerily accurate. Wow.
Call it inappropriate, but the Sex Abuse Scandal Garden looks like a 69 symbol. Why?!
To follow on that, I believe the plans for this cathedral were in place before Vigneron was in office in Oakland.
Omigosh, Tony.
And yes, the basic plans were in place when V arrived.
Jesus, the Zeppelin Master!
Yeah, I can't say I'm a fan of it either. I don't have anything against modern architecture, but I look at the thing, and my brain says "big protestant mega-church".
And the garden...sigh. I was thinking it was more like the astrological pisces symbol - which makes sense in light of what Leah said about vesica piscis.
I'm all for an adoration chapel dedicated to the victims of the sexual abuse scandal. Turn peoples' eyes toward the Blessed Sacrament. They'll find healing there. They won't find it in a pair of neatly pruned hedges, no matter how well-intentioned they may be.
Dear Leah,
Indeed, the light is important as the name of this cathedral is to be Christ Our Light. I appreciate the wood, and the basket image reminds me of Moses being sent down the Nile so that he might have life. An oculus is at the top. This is very rich in Christian symbolism. I still like the design.
A view of the Cathedral's website shows its construction. The names of all the parishes were painted around it, reminding us that the cathedral is the mother of all parishes in the diocese and that the priests' rights and responsibilities flow from the bishop.
Thats not a garden it is just a couple of hedges. Anyone who calls it a garden is deluding themselves.
The cathedral building is very nice, for an art gallery, exhibition hall, shopping mall, hotel lobby... but not a cathedral.
I've been trying to find a classy way to say what Tony noted.
Were I to show that image to my classroom of 16 year olds in religion and ask them to look for the symbolism, a few of the crass young men might laugh and get themselves in trouble with their answers...
Sadly that is what the mind of many will read into those hedges.
the solution of setting up a meaningless zen garden to heal the hurts caused by sexual abuse. Abstract landscaping is not how Catholics heal spiritual and psychological trauma.
AMEN!
Dare I suggest Mass after Mass after Mass offered in reparation combined with penance, eucharistic adoration, fasting... Now THOSE are some things Catholics ought to be doing.
If Amish designed cathedrals...
It is rather odd that, in a garden about healing sex abuse, they should utilize what clearly appears to be sexual symbols of yin and yang, thereby perpetuating the sexual imposition on the victims rather than opposing it.
I'm sure their intention is not a sexual symbol. See what Leah wrote above regarding vesica piscis.
But that's as good a reason as any not to use abstract hedge pruning to solve the sex abuse scandal. Seems a little misguided to me.
Can someone define healing in a way that doesn't appeal to some post-facto rationalization?
I appreciate the sentiment of a healing garden, but it's not pretty and doesn't seem to invite healing (my thought was those hurricane symbols on a tv news weather map). I doubt that if I visited it, it would help me any. I've seen nice memorial gardens for unborn children, with trees, roses, benches, statue of Mary, etc. This is two shrubs on a sidewalk. It's cold.
I've seen worse churches. I'm glad we're getting away from the ugly '60's and 70's barns and spaceships.
Hmm, on taking another look, I guess it's a spaceship-shaped barn.
Ok, taste is sometimes all in your mouth. Leah has the best response to this whole thing. And, Thomas, I am bit disappointed in you sarcastic remarks. They are unbecoming of you.
So, I would ask y'all to reserve judgment until you actually walk in the place.
It is not my taste either. I am not terribly fond of the way it looks on the outside. But I have walked inside. I was stunned by the beauty of the place. The figure of the Christ rising in glory is captivating. The picture on this blog does not do it justice. I will attend the dedication and I am anticipating how this will all sound in those wonderfeul acoustics.
I have heard Bishop Vigneron speak of this building and all its traditional and modern elements. He gave me a tour of the place.
I have composed a setting of Psalm 85 in Mode IV for the dedication.
And about the garden. It is one piece of a large open space that will blend into the fountains and plazas of the surrounding commercial building. The appearance of this jewel on the shore of Lake Merrit is really quite striking, no matter what I think of its exterior. From the distance across the lake, it is really quite beautiful.
I think you all forgot that the garden was designed for victims by victims, and no one mentioned that sculpture, which sounds beautiful, though I cannot really imagine how it might look when I am standing next to it.
Catholic bloggers have some reponsibility, something which I have to learn sometimes, too.
But for this blog to refer to the actions of my bishop as stupid, pooly executed, and as an aesthetic effrontery when he has not walked on these grounds, or sat at the feet of this good bishop with devotion, is the direct opposite of Catholic practice of the faith. Just ask Ignatius of Antioch.
Fr. Jeffery,
"the garden was designed for victims by victims"...and I gave you a survivor's opinion. I don't know anything about your bishop, but the two shrubs are ugly in this photo, and don't look the slightest bit healing to me.
Where is SOV2 parish now????
I am just trying to imagine a victim of abuse taking ANY solace or comfort by this zen garden...
How UTTERLY ridiculous. Were I the victim of covered up abuse, I would be more than a little insulted that this crap was part of the "reparation".
In regards to the Cathedral, I think George Weigel needs to write a sequel, this time illustrating with American architecture on American Catholicism, called: "The Cathedral and the Cathedral."
I am lucky enough to know someone who has a tremendously forgiving heart and who, as a victim of clerical abuse, has been able to heal through the Church and through prayer.
But, honestly, there are so many who haven't...and who would easily reject an Adoration chapel or a church with a more traditional aesthetic. If God heals them using nature and using a hedge or a garden because they are not emotionally able to return to the inside of a church, then that's how He does it.
The amount of judgment in this post is appalling, and that comes from someone who takes their faith very seriously. While you're busy saying prayers to God that this monument will fall, why not say one thanking Him that you've never had to fall to such abuse? At the same time, it wouldn't hurt to pray for a bit of empathy, either.
like what the first sentence of blog said, "The almost-completed Oakland cathedral,..." and the garden, it's an artist rendition, or that's how i look at it. can you people wait before rendering your verdicts? sheesh!
I can't see how a pair of shurbs that look faintly like copulating worms would comfort anybody. Too much money, fuzzy thinking and not enough brains. Of course, that's how the diocese got into this mess in the first place.
I'll agree that the Ad Hominem attacks of Bishop Vigneron solely for the Cathedral are out of order, but I think we ought to understand why some people really do not think that this design for a Cathedral is a good thing.
Outside the building, there is nothing identifying it as a church, let alone the Cathedral. This is what, I think, has more than a few Catholics here in a bind. It is a cool building, and I would even say that it is a beautiful building. It cannot be denied, though, that the first thought that should come to someone's mind (when they realize it is a Church) is that it must be some Protestant megachurch. The Cathedrals in classic days of yore were quite easily identifiable. There seemed to be something to the fact that someone could look and figure it out immediately.
This is not a trend exclusive to Cathedrals. There was a time when a religious brother, sister, nun, or priest could easily be distinguished by the habit or the Roman collar. Now, it has become a widespread trend to travel incognito. The people on these boards are criticizing this aspect of the Oakland Cathedral and others like it because of the need for something to look like a modern art masterpiece instead of a truly Catholic Cathedral.
Again, the building may be beautiful, but it certainly does not look like a Cathedral, and the Catholics on these boards are wondering why, and express their sentiments. One need not actually go there to draw this conclusion, just as I need not enter St. Patrick's Cathedral in New York to know that it is INDEED a Catholic Cathedral. This isn't just a desire for nostalgia and a rejection of all things modern. This is a desire for something sacred, and not just "something" that enlivens the shores of Lake Merritt. Surely, a more traditional looking Cathedral would do the same.
That is my two cents...or six, since it is the third time I've posted on here.
UHGGG-LEEEY! Ugly is as ugly does!
The garden looks a bit like a meteorological sign for a hurricane.
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