A provocation, without a doubt. But here are some answers, also related to the previous postings:
1. Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten ("Morning Herald Jutland's Post") is under a corporation which owns two newspapers with a national distribution. The two editors-in-chief, however, are paid by two separate funds and have total editorial freedom. Among people in the know, JP goes by the name of Morgenfascisten Jyllands-Pesten ("Morning Fascist Jutland's Plague"). Defining it as neo-con, neo-lib and racially prejudiced fits the picture pretty well. No doubt they happily would work hand-in-hand with anything neo-con in the US, as when they basically advocated that Greenlanders keep their mouths shut and let the US continue their military occupation there. The other newspaper in the corporation, Politiken ("Politics") is quite the opposite: the editorial line is definitely humanistic, or what used to be called left-wing. More relevant, however, is the fact that its editor-in-chief is one of the most well-formulated defenders of tolerance and multiculturalism, and one of vociferous opponents of the pervasive religious and racial hatred, of the fascisation of Danish society, of Danish foreign policies etc.. In the present context, his voice has been heard repeatedly with the same arguments (and many more) expounded by Xymph, even in public discussions with JP's editor-in-chief (not to mention a tabloid that is even more radical-right than JP). A real good guy, in other words. Now, the interesting thing is that he is Jewish, and even that he at least once was a Bilderberg guest. More: Politiken's previous, now-retired editor-in-chief, is also Jewish, lives in Israel and is often heard in public interviews or discussions with opinions and analyses that are as close to Gush Shalom as can be. Just as interesting: the corporation's CEO has remained very noticeably silent during the past few weeks. The consensus is that his main concern is that both papers remain in the black, whatever they publish, but that he may not be able to keep quiet much longer, considering how fast events are developing. Just to point out that things are not as conspiratorily B&W as our feeble minds would like them to be.
2. There is no "Jewish lobby" of sizeable importance in Denmark. Voices are heard of course, but they cannot be compared to the equivalent organisations in the USA or in France. In other words, Danes don't need a "Jewish lobby" to be prejudiced against Arabs and Muslims (and plenty of other foreign substances), they can very well take care of that with their own petty nationalist ideologies. Some years ago, a former Danish minister, whose brother was the then chief rabbi of Danmark and whose son has been a junior minister in Israel not long ago, came out publicly in support of "moderate pressure" on Palestinian prisonners (this was at the time there was a public outcry at Israel sending a former torturer as their ambassador, which they succeeded
succeeded in anyway). He was promptly kicked out from his (centrist, pro-NATO) political party.
3. Arabic media were until recently shunned by official Denmark. When Al-Jazeera's correspondant wished to interview the PM as Denmark was chest-thumping up to the invasion of Iraq, he was told, "we don't talk to people like you". Now, of course, things have changed. Al-Arabyia sent their Paris correspondant to interview the PM, and even JP's editor gave an interview to Al-Jazeera. When he was asked specifically whether he would have published caricatures related to Jews and the Jewish holocaust, he had no answer. Nothing.
4. It appeared a couple of days ago that JP had considered publishing some caricatures of Jesus in 2003. The editor-in-chief of the time backed out on the idea, because he was afraid of the consequences. One has to understand that the Danish People's Party, while not a part of the government, holds the ideological levers to the latter's policies, and that the brand of Christian fundamentalism promoted by the two priests in that party's leadership is determinant in the ideological battles going on.
5. Denmark became a part of NATO in the early 50's, despite very strong popular opposition. This was way before the "liberal phase" of the 70's and the 80's. Contrary to so many other things of similar importance (EU membership, for instance), NATO membership was never put to a referendum. A chapter of its own...
6. JP called on caricaturists allegedly because, following the murder of Theo van Gogh in Holland, no one had accepted to illustrate a children's book on Mohammed by a Danish writer known for his rabid anti-Muslim views (the book was published a few days ago). The hypocritical pretext used for this provocation, then, was the "right to freedom of expression", and this is still what JP and others claim they were defending. War is peace, in other words. Worth noting is the fact that only twelve caricaturists out of forty-three responded to the call. Whether the thirty-one were scared (the twelve are now under police protection) or didn't want to play the game remains untold.
The whole scenario stinks.
That it's some kind of deliberate provocation is pretty obvious, and my take is it's usefulness as a backdrop to the next synthetic terror. A cover story for the bang that will be blamed on the Iranians.
After all, without the image of a angry muslim, a false flag event wouldn't be effective for the ignorati.
Right now, and not surprisingly, the Danish National Broadcast's special correspondant in Beirut, Thomas Ubbesen, one of the true atlanticists we truly love to hate, "knows" like "everybody else" in Beirut that "the Syrians" are behind the burning down of Denmark's General Consulate there. The propaganda machine is spinning in high gear.
Qûr, some evidence that Flemming Rose is Jewish (apart from his photo) would be exceedingly welcome.
I have no such evidence, and I certainly can't see why it should be welcome except to support some nefarious prejudices. However, read for yourself (there are some bits in English down the page):
http://www.vision-lighed.dk/foru...sp?
TOPIC_ID=706
The hate list of names in bold half-way down the page, allegedly, are almost all Jewish journalists and publishers (and the others are allegedly non-Jews who are supportive of Zionism). Most of the names I'm familiar with are by no means Zionists, or they're against that crap (but that's maybe because I don't hang out with Zionists at all).
The cartoons themselves speak loudly about the race-war-provoking intentions behind them. Is it really a religious prophet from the Iron Age you aim at, when you draw a modern schoolboy with brownish face, the tongue foolishly hanging out of his mouth, a football-t-shirt with the text: "The Future" and a 'semitic'-stereotype nose and curly black hairs? The boy is standing before the blackboard, where he has written something. The undertext explains, what it is: "persian (! My emphasis) with arabic letters" and says: "Jyllands-Posten's journalists are a bunch of reactionary provocateurs". The cartoonist obviously found it very 'funny' to put the truth about himself and his colleagues in the mouth of the subhuman hate-figure he has drawn. And why is the boy 'persian' writing 'in arabic'? Of course because the drawing is meant to create the right atmosphere for the long-prepared simultaneous attack on Syria and Iran. The boy is as symbol for the enemy, this is the kind of hate-propaganda-national-stereotype-cartoons we know from the years before the first world war.
Another of the drawings shows us a strange scenario with no prophet whatsoever present: something resembling symbolic hangings, but not of people: the 'strange fruits' hanging are islamic half-moons hanging from the instruments of the hangman, which instead of a rope is the zionist symbol of David's star. Here we are obviously looking at the product a sick brain, dreaming of Holocausts to come, when peoples are manipulated and used as pieces on "the grand chess-board". A 'poem' besides is adressed to "The prophet" and tells him that he is mad and supresses women. The cartoonist is obviously a strong believer who thinks Mohammed is still alive after fourteen centuries. This is childish as only fascism can be.
See the rest for yourself here: http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/698
That the majority of these drawings are of the nazi-type isn't difficult to see when you know just a little bit about history. That a lot of arabic nespapers often publish the same type of racist rubbish is no excuse.
That they, after being prepared thoroughly in the US-israeli propaganda-war-department, appear precisely in the newspaper which 1933-45 was the most fanatic pro-nazi of all 'danish', is no historical coincidence. It's historical continuity.
"I certainly can't see why it should be welcome except to support some nefarious prejudices."
-- well, inquiring minds would like to know.
Can anybody just say that these cartoons were simply not funny? I mean these "jokes" are like 20 years old at least! There is some good offensive humor out there, (including a very funny animated web site out there that has Jesus speaking in a Yiddish accent), but these jokes were not funny. I think the protesters should be burning down the Friars Club, not the Danish embassy!
Quite correct, VoR. And, with the exception of the first one, they're bad handicraft too. Actually, for that reason, French Libération didn't want to publish them at first (I mean, they have a true tradition for sacrilegious cartoons in France, with '68 cartoonists Gotlib or Reiser) but then they quickly changed their minds. As the good atlantist servants they are, they probably didn't want to be the last to catch Sarkozy's train.
A special mention of the last cartoon, the one with the orange with PR-STUNT written on it, which seems to be intented as a caricature of Kåre Bluitgen, the author of the children's book.
For the fun of it, here are two links to real caricatures of the actual situation:
http://punx.users.whitehat.dk/?p=167
http://punx.users.whitehat.dk/?p=168
You must be Danish to get the full geist of them, even what would appear as poor drawing to the uninitiated eye, but it might help to know that the names are those of the fascistoid rat pack whose repeated trashing of the Muslim minority have brought us here. They have filled the sewers to the brim, and JP's cartoons were only the last drop of shit that burst the manhole covers open. Now, at long last, Denmark is having to deal with the rotten stench. It won't go away by itself.
Groups of people will always provoke one another. Yes it says something about the provocateurs, but equally so those who take the bait.
As the buddhists say, "If someone presents you a gift and you do not accept it, to whom does it belong?"
Great point, blah. I agree wholeheartedly. The episode of course points out some troubling aspects of western provocation and European bigotry, but it also points out some troubling aspects of Muslim character and volatility. A truly disturbing number of people on BOTH sides of the equation seem desperately to want to buy into the whole "clash of civilizations" ideology and push it to the Nth degree. Let's face it, the Middle East in particular and the Muslim world in general are belching volcanoes just waiting for the right trigger to erupt violently. You have literally millions of unemployed, listless, angry, temperamental young men in these societies with little to do except throw rocks or incendiaries and shoot their AK-47s in the air repeatedly, with green scarves ties around their faces. I know it sounds like a mean stereotype, but I'm sorry, the truth hurts. There are many reasons why this is the case, but to pretend it isn't is simply ludicrous. For these bitter, volatile, violent young men, a stupid and unfunny cartoon in a newspaper in an afterthought postage-stamp of a country came as a godsend--the perfect excuse to blow off a little steam by shouting, chanting, smashing windows, burning things, calling for the deaths of non-Muslims, firing the obligatory AK-47s in the air in a rhythmic cadence, and all the rest of the tiresome and all-too-predictable street theater. And of course the mild and completely ineffective tut-tutting of the handful of Muslim critics of the violence came as too little, too late. But what does one expect? They know their own people, all too well. I'm surprised they said anything at all.
Frankly, I'm getting pretty sick and goddamned tired of being told that as a "Western cultural imperialist" I need to constantly walk on eggshells to keep from offending the delicate sensibilities of Muslims. F**k that. If Muslims were secure in their religious beliefs and demonstrated the slightest bit of cultural and social maturity, they'd be able to handle some criticism in an adult way. However, Muslims as a whole have to constitute easily the most hypersensitive, overreactive bunch of zealots in the world today. Their allies and whores in the West make things even worse by trying to stifle any criticism or honest examination of Islam in the name of "cultural relativism." F**k that too. Islam is light-years behind the West in enlightened thought, even so-called moderates in the Muslim world are way behind the curve, and its human rights record is abominable, and it's about time more people stopped pussyfooting around the issue and spoke the truth, and stopped making apologies for such abhorrent behavior and attitudes.
It's about time more people stopped pussyfooting around the issuse and spoke the truth, and stopped making apologies for such abhorrent behavior and attitudes.
In short, the Coalition of the Willing should get the F**k out of the Middle East, lock stock and oil barrel, and the Israeli state apparatus should get the F**k out of all the occupied territories (including Golan) and design appropriate compensation and restitution for its ethnic cleansing.
Thanks, ej, for demonstrating yet again the logical fallacies currently infesting leftist conspiracy nuts like yourself. Did I say ANYTHING in my comment about the "War on Terror", Palestine/Israel, Iraq, oil, yadda yadda? No, of course I didn't. But of course you ignored what I DID say and went right to those issues, out of some unthinking, reflexive habit. ej, that's called arguing with a non sequitir. Look it up and educate yourself. But you probably won't--I mean, the principles of logical argumentation, fallacies, hell even the term "non sequitir" are part of the Western cultural heritage, and thus by definition rotten to the core, right?!
Get a grip. For the record, I'm a leftist myself. I condemn Israel as a criminal state, I condemn the corrosive effect of American foreign policy in the Middle East, I utterly condemn the illegal invasion of Iraq. But you know what? Just because Israel is a racist peddler of state terrorism, and just because the US is commiting crimes in the region for reasons of resources and geopolitics, doesn't mean that Muslims get an automatic pass for their bizarre belief system, violent intolerance, backwards social attitudes, and numerous heinous behaviors. My point was that the whole tempest over a stupid cartoon says something about the West and its activities in the region, sure, but it also says a whole hell of a lot about Muslims, their attitudes and behaviors, and it's not a pretty picture. You know what else? If Israel didn't exist and the US wasn't involved in the region, Islam would still be a fanatical, intolerant relic of pre-modern barbarism with an abysmal human rights record. I know, I know, that's SO politically incorrect to say! How dare I?! But it's the wretched truth, and no amount of lame denial on the part of well-meaning but pathetically stupid Western liberals will change that. Pull your head out of the sand and deal with it.
BTW, for all you Zionist/fascist conspiracy mongers who are stumbling around in the fog on this issue, one of my fave blogs has some pretty insightful, witty remarks about the cartoon controversy, written in his raw, crude, and inimitable style, but containing essential truths nonetheless:
http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2...-flames-
if.html
it's a "we're all in this together" media created moment designed to have more European countries on board for the Syrian invasion.
"a modern schoolboy with brownish face, the tongue foolishly hanging out of his mouth" - a "subhuman hate-figure".
WHAT? Jeez, you must be able to find insults in the entrails of dead birds!
"And why is the boy 'persian' writing 'in arabic'? Of course because the drawing is meant to create the right atmosphere for the long-prepared simultaneous attack on Syria and Iran."
You certainly put a lot of trust in JP's readers, if you think they know the difference between persian and arabic.
Groups of people will always provoke one another. Yes it says something about the provocateurs, but equally so those who take the bait.
As the buddhists say, "If someone presents you a gift and you do not accept it, to whom does it belong?"
Surely everyone will remember that the next time World Jewry wets its pants over some movie or misspelling.
The provocation is undoubtedly because they no longer have Ariel Sharon there to drive on hard toward the war they require. Congratulations on your material.
surely everyone will remember that the next time World Jewry wets its pants over some movie or misspelling.
would you cut the antisemitic crap? god that's annoying.
I think this is what it is: IT SETS THE PROTOCOLS BY WHICH THEY FINALLY CAN THROW ARABS OUT OF EUROPEAN COUNTRIES OR NOT TAKE THEM IN ANYMORE W/ AMNESTY.
Arabs fucked up bigtime especially with the demonstrations in England this week and it's over. Go back to your own back-asswards countries and eat sand.
Can you believe anybody puts up with this shit from them??? Can you believe England puts up with that shit? They are only there because someone felt pity for their hirsuit asses out of some multiculturalist bender. Fuck them send them back, if England doesn't they are a total sack of pussies on this one.
"If Israel didn't exist and the US wasn't involved in the region, Islam would still be a fanatical, intolerant relic of pre-modern barbarism with an abysmal human rights record. I know, I know, that's SO politically incorrect to say! How dare I?! But it's the wretched truth, and no amount of lame denial on the part of well-meaning but pathetically stupid Western liberals will change that. Pull your head out of the sand and deal with it."
-- apart from the tedious merkin slang ("behind the curve", "deal with it", etc.), this whole assertion is just not supported. Saying that it's "the wretched truth" doesn't substantiate it. It's just your opinion, my cultural imperialist leftist friend.
Rowan--get off your high horse about my "tedious merkin slang" you pasty haggis-breath. Your comments on this site don't exactly rise to the level of Tennyson, you know? I'm so tired of Brit supremacists--you know the type, those who feel justified in condescending to Americans because. . .well, why exactly? Because they used to have a bunch of boats, a Cape-to-Cairo railroad, and the power to slaughter Indians at will? Because they curtsy to an old woman with a diamond mine on her head? Because they were the world's preeminent greedy, capitalist swine from 1815-1914? Because of their rich, delicious cuisine? Their glorious, beautiful weather? Their innovative, world-conquering high technologies? Their cultural superiority over Americans, whom we all KNOW haven't produced ANY worthwhile artists, writers, poets, playwrights, architects, designers, musicians, etc. throughout their entire history? Because of all the many earth-shattering trends, fashions, etc. that have come pouring out of the UK in recent decades, like, uhm. . .well, let me get back to you on that one. Whatever.
Rowan dear, I know it must be extraordinarily painful to realize that even lowly IRELAND now outperforms Her Britannic Majesty's realm economically, with higher growth rates, higher average incomes, and lower overall poverty. What an historic comeuppance! Britain's standard of living has now slipped into the second tier in Europe; the island is in many respects seen as the crusty old spinster aunt rocking and knitting in the corner, and is treated as such. Face it Rowan, your sun set long ago. So much of this Brit anti-Americanism isn't due to any higher evolution, it's just vainglory, resentment, envy, and sour grapes. We used to be top dog, dammit, and now our progeny across the pond have knocked us off the pedestal! Shame on them! Well, we might as well play along while putting on a show of being more highly-evolved, so that we can cling with bloody fingertips to our fading memories of our imperial past! Shhh. . .maybe no one will notice.
You're right, my assertion is merely my opinion, as it can't be proven in the real world under existing conditions. But so what? All one needs to do is look at Muslim religious tenets and teachings, Muslim education, Muslim history, the demographic and resource crises facing Muslim nations, the human rights situation in the wealthiest (oil-rich) Muslim nations, the human rights situation in Muslim nations that are not directly threatened by Israel or the US, etc. to come to a reasonable conclusion. And that conclusion is that Islam, irrespective of any direct threat from the West, is an insult to civilized intelligence, an ethical wasteland, and overwhelmingly a human rights disaster. Can I prove that scientifically? Haha No. But it's a reasonable contention based on much objective and circumstantial evidence. The verdict: Islam is by-and-large a disgrace, an embarrassment to a species entering its 6th millenium of li
terate and urban civilization. (oops, sorry, got cut off there in my last post!)
Funny,Humanist, you looked smart until you opened your mouth. If you can't make a point in two short paragraphs, you have no point. You are foaming at both ends. Reach for the Prozac.
tee hee, we own the Fed
Kassandra--you're right, I went on a bit long there. Mea culpa. BTW, thanks for the precise cyberdiagnosis of my mental illness! I'm touched and highly impressed. But based on your handle, I'd say you're more in need of Prozac than I. Besides, I like lovemaking way too much--and from what I hear, Prozac has some rather undesirable side effects. Ah well. . .
Though I don't suffer from general depression, I will grant you this--I suffer from fleeting but intense moments of depression when I see the state of liberal/progressive/leftist discourse online, how ineffective it is in the real world, how it falls back on reductionist thinking, dogmatic statements, and woolly-eyed conspiracy theories as crutches in place of rigorous, logical thought. Yep, that is pretty depressing sometimes!
Rowan--LOL! You DO have a sense of humor! So happy to see that. Yep, the Brits own the Fed. S-u-u-r-r-e. Darling, if any non-Americans have disproportionate financial leverage over the US, it's the East Asians. China and Japan have become America's bankers. And since those economies are crucially dependent on exports and would collapse without them, and Americans are the world's "consumers of last resort," this situation looks set to continue indefinitely, as everyone involved has a vested interest in perpetuating it. I'm not saying it's an invulnerable set-up, but don't underestimate its endurance. I used to make that mistake all the time as a Marxist. Economic collapse and revolution always seemed to be right around the corner, but strangely and alas, the corner just kept receding farther and farther into the distance.
You know, Rowan, I just remembered something. Maybe you WERE on to something with your crazed notion that the lovers of spotted dick actually own the Fed. It occurs to me that out in looney-tunes fringe leftist conspiracy land, there is a theory that the US Establishment, the Yankee political and corporate elites, are all in thrall to Her Majesty QEII, and that the British Royal Family (along with the Dutch, if I'm not mistaken) actually run the world. Well, sounds plausible to me. I'm sure Bush and Cheney get their marching orders via daily calls from the Royal Boudoir in Buckingham Palace. And if they ever disobey the Defender of the Faith, I'm sure she could set aside some nice comfy accommodations for them in the Tower, where they would be guarded by a contingent of Beefeaters in those simply ADORABLE outfits!
Here all along lefties have had the wrong target. The hydra-headed Beast of the Apocalypse doesn't actually reside in the White House after all, but in Buckingham Palace! Whoa, they'd better order more bearskin hats and beef up the number of sentries tasked with guarding Queenie, once the "enemies of freedom" catch wind of who their REAL enemy is. Maybe she could be moved to an undisclosed location. . .
Not quite sure what those rants of Brits vs. Yanks are all about. But, yes, USA has one great writer: Tom Robbins. And if you really want to know what the world of Islam was like before western Europeans went on their successive plundering sprees, read the best living French writer. His name is Amin Maalouf. He's Lebanese.
Oh, Qur, really. Come on. "USA has one great writer: Tom Robbins"?!? Either you don't get out much, or you're just another provincial Eurosnob exposed. I suppose next you'll tell me that Bjork's atonal screeching is music for the ages?
Yes, Islam had a period of glory after the initial Arab expansion, when Arab Muslim culture witnessed a flowering of science, mathematics, the arts, etc. all while Europe was languishing in the Dark Ages of Church power. So? That period was short-lived and destroyed by Muslims from within long before it could have fallen victim to European predations. It was destroyed PRECISELY BECAUSE it was seen as a threat to religious orthodoxy, and Islam has languished and suffered ever since. The Ottomans and Mughals also experienced brief flowerings that were unsustained or suppressed, and those cultures also fell behind because of it. Islam has shown little capability of sustaining long-term a progressive, advanced, cultured, innovative, artistically-rich, highly-literate civilization, primarily due to religious dictates and their effect on the wider society. All cases of Muslim societies briefly attaining that status occurred hundreds of years ago. What's your point? What does that have to do with Islam NOW? Muslims themselves are to blame for retarding their own cultural development--don't blame Europeans for it.
THANK YOU, Qur Tharkasdottir.
The Brits, those wank pansy faggots??? I thought it was the Vatican that rules us either that or just the highest corporate bidder.
We should invade Britain just for being smug.
Watch it Ahkmad--your only ally in these cartoon threads might just be a cocksucking fudgepacker himself. Now you wouldn't want to really piss me off, would you? I might declare a lavender jihad against you and come to burn down your house 
The Vatican barely owns the Vatican anymore. They're too busy chasing down boys to fuck and draining the Church treasury to pay for past boy-fucking. Maybe I should direct my lavender jihad against them, for tarnishing the names and reputations of all us normal, respectable, law-abiding faggots out there?
We did "invade" Britain once before. It was 1943-1944. We basically occupied the country, and the sulking Brits took orders from Eisenhower. They still haven't forgiven us for it, either.
Merkin inferiority complex, symptom, uncalled for volubility
Humanist has failed to point out the the Americans still occupy the country (Britain).
Checked the bases recently?
Not to mention 10 Downing.
Oh, Dr. Berkeley! My 2nd mental health diagnosis in 24 hrs! (sniffle sniffle) I didn't (sniffle) know you cared so much (sniffle). But thankfully you're always here to spoon feed me my medicine, a healthy dose of insults fresh from Perfidious Albion!
Rule Britannia!
Good point, ej. And Germany. . .and Japan. . .and South Korea. . .
It always amuses me to see how quickly you average american can turn nasty on their (so called) allies.
Got to be the most racist country in the world without any doubt.
Is there any nation they do not despise?
'Is there any nation they do not despise?'
Denmark?
Thanks for the link, Humanist. Your blogger is right: there's always someone wanting money or power fanning the flames and everybody who buys into their rhetoric are useful idiots. Jyllandsposten is provocative? How about flushing the Quran at Gitmo? Don't remember any embassy-burnings back then. I've heard a million times by "moderate" moslems, that they're all for free speech but that it doesn't or shouldn't extend to the ridicule religions. Well doh! Free speechs was INVENTED to ridicule religion. Religion is ridiculous! I belive in God myself but dammit if I'm gonna belive that God wrote a book! The Almighty as a writer!? Get real! That's idolatry! And for priests: don't get me started! They're simonists all of them.
Now, if this is really a conspiracy to fan racial hatred, please tell me what race moslems are? And Mohammad with a bomb in the place of his head? Well, apparently it was spot on as is being amply demonstrated these last weeks. So what if Mohammad is holy to moslems? Jesus has been depicted MUCH more provocative in Denmark (and Europe at large) Think "Piss Christ" a picture of Jesus submerged in... well guess! Or the Gottlieb cartoon where he depicted Allah, Jehova and Jesus orgying. For the Danish readers try Deleurans masterpiece Rejsen til Saturn, where Jesus is depicted as a slightly demented hooligan, God as a half senile old man, and the Holy Ghost is used as jet fuel. Yes, people got offended by Jens Jørgen Thorsen decorating a railroad station with a picture of the crucified Jesus sporting an enormous hard on, but no one started to burn down buildings or threaten mass murder. As for the moslems: Denmark, as Britain has a long tradition for satirising religion. Get used to it or get lost. We're heathens anyway, so why should you care about what we think?
You think Danes are islamophobes? Well guess again. The sorry truth is, we don't care about Islam one way or the other, we don't care about religion at all. The blank look you get from Danes when you ask them to read the Quran is not fear but boredom. No, we don't know much about Islam and we don't wan't to and have no obligation to. Call it racism if it makes you feel good. I call it sense. We fought for centuries for the right to speak up against religion, and we'll forfeit that right if we give in now, no matter if Jyllandspostens motives for printing the cartoons were less than savory.
I forgot: The so called radicals roaming the streets of Damascus are pussies. If I was a radical Mullah, I'd have the head of the Danish ambassador to Syria decorating my battle standard inside an hour, but not one, not even one single Dane has been killed yet. How pathetic is that? Islamophobia? Don't make me laugh! Windbags...
Harry--the nastiness between supposed allies isn't a one-way street, it goes both ways. Most European nations are official allies of the US in one way or another, yet that doesn't prevent large numbers of their peoples from expressing frank hatred or dislike or disgust of the US and its people, does it? Many Europeans dislike the US and Americans; many Americans dislike Europe and Europeans. That's hardly a revelation. What's your point?
As for me personally, I like Europe and Europeans. I even like Britain and the British, contrary to what you might think from these threads. I'm a lifelong francophile too. Yep, you read that right--I'm an American francophile. We are a rare breed, but we do exist! LOL What I DON'T like are Eurosnobs, Eurohypocrites, Brit supremacists, those who denigrate my nationality and make fun of me with no provocation simply because I'm American, and dismiss my arguments out-of-hand for the same reason. You do those things, and I don't care who you are and where you're from, you're going to raise my hackles, and I can give as good as I get. Capeche?
As for your characterization of the US as "the most racist country in the world"--I'll grant you that racism is a serious problem in the US, as it is in many countries, including many in Europe. I don't see how you can look at events in recent years objectively and not conclude that racism is a fundamental problem of the West as a whole. The US is not alone in that regard, but does have a unique history of slavery and legal segregation that it had to overcome. But because of societal differences one can't simply compare racism across national borders, there are too many contextual factors at play. Is the US the world's most racist country? Possibly. But it's an inherently subjective question, and your own prejudices will influence how you answer it.
Regardless, how does your statement about American racism follow from your statement about Americans turning nasty on their allies? Especially in this context, when I was jabbing back at Rowan, a pasty Limey, for his unprovoked assault on my nationality? I'm a Caucasian American myself, with a substantial English ancestry. So how did our sparring involve racism, precisely?
Harry, meet Non Sequitir. Non Sequitir, meet Harry.
There are plenty of nations that Americans "do not despise." Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, Britain, other European countries, blah blah. I can't speak for other Americans, but personally I don't despise ANY nation as a whole entity. That's absurd. I can compartmentalize peoples from their governments and policies, civilians from militaries, nasty individuals (such as Kim Jong-Il) from the average Joe (or Kim, in this case) on the street. I'm sorry if you can't make those same distinctions.
Erik--good comments, thanks for contributing. It's nice to get the occasional pat on the back rather than a shiv in the back, as most of those on this site offer me. Anywa
y, it's too bad that more peoples and nations don't share the same attitudes about religion as the Danes--the world would be a much better place if they did.
Just a little regional detail FYI:
I was rather surprised, when I heard, that my old country, Hungary has joined into this provocation, since anti-Muslim sentiments are not generally prevalent there, so I decided to look-in it further. There were 2 Budapest dailies who have re-published those thrash: One, (Magyar Hirlap) is a well known Zionist flagcarrier from time immemorial and the other (Népszabadság) used to be the Communist Party's daily, (a sort of Hungarian Pravda), which has metamorphosed into a leftist-liberal organ. The government and the majority of the population in reaction, have condemned their action. One of the offender (MH) has issued an apology since.
Breeding hate and breeding small brainwashed nazi children ... This is the cover page of
today's issue of one of Denmark's two tabloids. The captions read: «Mohammad
Conflict Scares the Small Children» and «Why Do They Hate Us, Daddy?». Note
the burning Danish flag in the background.
http://quurt.hostingisus.com/
Bre...reedingHate.jpg
It's not only the press that's unrepentant. At his weekly press conference
today, February 8th, Prime Minister Anders Fogh stated unambiguously that
those responsible for the cartoon morass were the imams who had traveled to
the Middle East for the sole purpose of spreading disinformation.
whoowhie, thats tacky
Careful Rowan, you're edging dangerously close to a "horrible use of American slang cliches." We wouldn't want that to happen!
You know I should revise my comment.
Israel is probably the most racist country in the world today - apartheid and ethnic cleansing are had to beat.
I just re-read your little rant about England above Humanist. It seems like you had that little outburst ready to go for some time. The only thing that amazes me is that you forgot to mention crooked teeth. That is always a favourite of our American friends.
But please keep up the good work Humanist - by alienating your last remaining friends in the world through your racist bile you do a great favour for America's enemies.
And I for one would like nothing more for the populace of the UK to wake and see that standing shoulder to shoulder with vile human beings like yourself is a complete waste of time and brings no benefits on any level.
With friends like you...
Good point, Harry - my teeth are awful. I blame the National Health Service.
Burroughs had a good bit in his Old Sarge routine about Brits. "Go release a hot air balloon in contravention of a local ordinance" is one of the more or less uncalled for suggestions in it.
Harry--no, it wasn't a prepared statement, it was all spontaneous. And it wasn't a tirade meant to denigrate the whole of the UK and all its people, either, as you and Rowan seem to think. My comments were directed specifically at Brit supremacists (like Rowan, and now, I guess, yourself) who feel they are SO superior to everyone else, especially Americans (oh, and the Irish, and continental Europeans, and. . .) and thus free to insult at will. I made some initial comments on the cartoon thread to address a thing or two that Xymph had written, and before I knew it Rowan had jumped all over my ass, insulting me, calling me a troll, attacking my language and writing style, making fun of my nationality--doing everything, in fact, but reasonably address the issues I raised in a substantive way--and all without provocation or justification. He clearly hates Americans for no other reason than that they're Americans. I'm sorry, but if you come at me with such attitudes, you'd better be prepared for a response in kind. But again, I have never intended to put down the British nation or people as a whole, only give a bitchslap to hateful, unapologetic bigots like Rowan.
I do have a few questions, though: How can a Caucasian American with significant English ancestry jabbing back at the demeaning comments of a Caucasian Englishman be considered "racist bile?" Boy, you folks on this site sure love your non sequitirs, you just keep hurling them fast and furious! Also, how is it possible for me to "alienat[e] [America's] last remaining friends in the world" by trading barbs with you and Rowan, two people who obviously already hate America and Americans? Neither of you needed any help from me to spout your prejudice. All I provided was a convenient target, not a casus belli. Another curious statement of yours, that doesn't seem to follow from the evidence. And when you discuss dissuading the British to "stand shoulder to shoulder with vile human beings like yourself" were you only referring to me personally, or by extension to all 300 million men, woman, and children in the US? If the latter, don't you consider that to be just a tad bit harsh and unfair? Apparently not. With "friends" like these, indeed! So sorry that you feel the Anglo-American alliance is a "complete waste of time and brings no benefits on any level." I couldn't agree more. It's just such a crying shame that the US didn't feel that way in the 1940s. Perhaps if we had I wouldn't be reading despicable crap from bastards such as yourself on this blog?
Is this last bout intended to suggest that the USA came and "saved" Europe in WM2? Curious...
The US certainly came and saved Britain in WWII! The Soviets would have saved themselves given enough time.
Jeesh, American-hating Brits seem to be crawling out of the woodwork! As I sit here typing, the news babbles on the telly (see, Rowan, I know what you like to hear!) about an attractive, charming young English man who hates Americans intensely, or at least the two Americans formerly known as his wife and infant daughter. Hates them enough to kill them, brutally. Seems Mr. Neil Entwistle is now in the custody of Scotland Yard, soon to be returned to the big bad USA to face justice. That poor, dear young man. We all know how child-killers are treated in prison, especially notorious ones, and he'll be in the same prison system where a notorious child molesting priest was brutally beaten and strangled to death by a fellow inmate a short time ago, while guards twiddled their thumbs down the corridor. Here it turns out the priest never should have been housed in the same unit as his killer, let alone the same cell, but you know, mistakes do happen. Such a pity, really. Yes, poor Mr. Entwistle--an attractive, slender young English lad like him, with his history and notoriety--why, I'm sure he'll jump right to the top of the prison popularity charts! All the other inmates will want to see and be seen with him, the glamour boy! Oh, poor lad--it won't be long before we'll have to rename his rectum "Chunnel 2". He might want to start his stretching and relaxation exercises right now, in England. They'll sure come in handy later. . .
'bitchslap', now that's another loathsome american gangster term. Have you ever wondered who puts these terms into circulation? I'll give you a hint : the gangsters couldn't fill the Hollywood studios on their own, they need help from the regulars. Ask yourself who runs the gangster rap labels.
Hmm, Rowan, let me take a stab at it. Could it be. . .might it be. . .is there any possibility it's. . .THE JEWS?!?!
Of course it is, why do I even need to ask?
Sorry to disappoint Humanist but I am not English.
You sure make a lot of quick and erroneous assumptions about people. I suppose considering that most of what you write is infantile garbage that should come as no surprise.
And I am finding it highly comical reading your attempts to back peddle out of your racist rant at the English.
Go read your original post. You make all sorts of derogatory statements about the English from their monarch to their weather.
Are supposed to believe that that this only refers to 'Brit supremacists'?
So does it only rain a lot on the supremacists? Is that what you are trying to say! What an idiotic arsehole - sorry but you are!
In the future you might want to grow a pair of balls humanist and stand by the real you.
And funny you should mention slaughtering Indians…
How is your indigenous population these days? Or should I say what is left of them - smallpox on your blankets anyone?
It is pretty clear that you have a lot of bottled up rage at England Humanists. I suspect like of lot of Americans you are nursing a massive inferiority complex over England. It sure does not take much to trigger another long out burst does it?
Also I am not so sure that boasting about how your prisons are dens of homosexual rape really helps the case that the US is a great nation. Yes well done on that one. You should feel really proud.
Of course it is you that lives there(?). So I guess you should be real careful not break any laws you whole life otherwise you will be wearing a dress and walking like a cowboy (i.e. bowlegged my dimwitted friend) in no time. But considering your obvious glee at the idea of another man getting raped perhaps you are into that sort of thing. Makes sense…
And while we are on the subject what it is with the US and all that homosexual rape and general sexual perversion. You seem to be exporting your sickos all around the world if Abu Ghraib is much to go by.
A military police full of perverts and sodomisers says what about your collective psyche? I personally can't wait for the next tranche of videos and pictures to get released. The one of the 8 year old Iraqi boy getting raped should go down especially well at the world box office.
And at least Entwistle is coming back to face the music. I still recall the US pilot, who whilst hot-dogging in his fighter over Italy, severed the cables on a cable car that caused the death of a dozen plus Italians. Remind me, was he not quickly flown out the country by the US authorities before he could face the legal consequences for his actions. He unlike Entwistle did not run alone - he was aided and abetted by the military establishment. Ah yes another ‘ally’ treated like shit. In fact maybe ask the Japanese or the Pilipino or just about any nation in the world what they think of American justice when it comes to dealing with murders and rapes committed by Americans on foreign soil.
As for 1940 I could not care l
...could not care less if the US had joined the war or not. Nobody owes you anything because then like now you are only interested in yourselves. You think the US is any better than the Nazis? Try worse. No one feels grateful. I sure don’t.
Humanist, let me try not to fall into the trap of being insulting in the way your own insults seem to induce in others. I'd nonetheless suggest that you dump your children books on WM2 in the trash and look back at historical reality. Such as: throughout the 20's and the 30's the USA and Britain were on the verge of an armed conflict over three commodities, tin, rubber and oil, which the US was short on on its own territory. As the folly of WM2 picked up in intensity, the USA patiently waited (while "generously" providing help to the conflicting parts) until Britain (as it turned out, it could have been Germany) was ready to be picked (thanks to Hitler's effort), and graciously came to its rescue. It took another 10 to 15 years until the bits and pieces of the British Empire had changed hands, with or without (think Suez) the previous owner's blessing. In the meanwhile, if Russia hadn't been there to fight Leningrad, Stalingrad and particularly Kursk, which signified the beginning of the end for the overstretched German Reich (same old folly of Empire), and in the extremely doubtful event that the USA might have managed to conquer Europe from Germany if there hadn't been a front to keep the Wehrmacht busy out East, western Europe would have known the same fate as Latin America under the US's delicate patronage in the 70's. Not, mark my word, that I ever have envied the fate of those people and countries under the Soviet rule, but without the latter there wouldn't have been one bit of hindrance in the way of total American domination over western Europe (if you're in doubt, just look at how things have been going on since the SU fell apart - unless of course you believe that Truman was some particular sort of Elevated Noble Being). Now, I don't believe I have as much time at hand as you seem to, but there's lots and lots of recent research out there on the subject.
Unfortunately, via the Trotsykite Russian-Jewish emigré intellectuals, America, never terribly sophisticated about matters Euroopean, fell after the end of WW2 into a simplistic and ignorant sub-Stalinist "anti-fascist" mind-set, which it is now acting out, by trying to "save the world from islamo fascism". What a sad sick joke.
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