I personally know Mr. Amara, and his cell phone detonator was for his electrical engineering project/assignment at Ryerson University, which he attended. Everyone in our mosque knew that (we prayed together sometimes). Please add this fact as well, xymphora.
One should automatically assume that any Arab accused of "terrorism" is innocent.
Even crazies like Moussaoui and Reid.
OK Salman, if you know these guys, any comment on the following article?
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/
n...in08062006.html
I saw The National interview on the CBC with 'Sufi' imam Sayyid Ahmed Amiruddin who certainly did a lot of finger-pointing at 'Wahhabis'
1. Do you know the imam, and is he legit?
2.Zakaria Amara was influenced by Fahim Ahmad who was influenced by Qayyum Abdul Jamal. Do you have an opinion as to which one was the provocateur? The one who set up the sting?
3. Or was it Stephen Chand?
Just curious, of course.
Man From Atlan,
You seen to know alot about Islam. Are you a Muslim?
From the article:
"Amiruddin is a teacher of Sufism, a traditional brand of Islam that rejects the ideology of jihad."
Wait a minute, does Jihad not mean "inner struggle of being a person of virtue, and submission to God in all aspects of life"?
And what does it mean; "a traditional brand of Islam"? Western version of Islam or Daniel Pipe/Ataturk/Bernard Lewise's Islam?
"It is alleged that Mr. Amara was spotted approaching government offices in the far Northern Ontario community. Someone claims to have heard him fire off two shots with a shotgun."
Why would a terrorist go to small Canadian towns where everybody knows everybody else, and fire shots randomly so everyone remembered him?
They mean he is not a fan of Wahhabism, which is frequently equated (incorrectly) with neo-Salafism and the Muslim Brotherhood ideology of Sayyid Qutb, which in turn was the immediate precursor of al Qaeda. In fact, although Wahhabism and traditional Sufism are indeed polar opposites, and in some contexts Sufis have been enlisted against Wahhabis (Chechnya, for example) it is not true that Wahhabism and neo-Salafism are identical - the Saudi State has spent quite a lot of money arguing that they are very different, and that Wahhabism per se does not approve of generalised Jihads against Western powers and their citizens. It cannot be disputed, though, that many neo-Salafi Jihadists go through the Wahhabi education system before finally becoming completely radicalised and leaving it behind. There are other routes - Wahhabism is not the sole preparatory breeding ground for neo-Salafism - it is the main one because it is itself so widespread, the Saudis having spent so much money promoting it by establishing mosques, education centres, publishing houses, etc. everywhere.
Rowan Berkeley,
Get your facts right!
Sayyid Qutb was the arch-enemy of Wahhabism and House of Saud.
Sufism existed long before Wahhabism. Averroes and Rumi ever heard, no?
He may have regarded himself as the arch enemy of Wahhabism, but it remains the case that most people arrive at Qutbism via Wahhabism.
I never suggested that Sufism came into being as a response to Wahhabism, what a nonsensical idea.
Thnx for the reply, Man from Atlan.
Here, I will give a brief description of what happened between Faheem Ahmed, Zakaria Amara, Abdul Qayum, and those assholes in CSIS. From late 2002, these "extremists" had been visiting www.shaheed.com, which them guys from C.S.I.S. had tapped. Why? Well it showed and exposed the massacres and opression in real time (videos, dvds, etc.) of muslims worldwide, either by traitorous "muslims" or non-muslims. This included scenes from Indonesia, Palestine, Chechnya, Kashmir, Afghanistan, Iraq, amongst others. So these youths got together on our MSA in Meadowvale High School, and decided to spread forth the message of Jihad (defensive of course, and no terrorism). They never once talked about terrorism. Neither did they encourage it. Within a year, Zakaria Amara decided not to go to jihad overseas anymore. He was married by 2004/2005, and he now has a kid. Last summer (July/August 2005), I met up with Faheem Ahmed, and he told me of his desire to join the jihad overseas. He told me that he was in touch with mujahideen overseas fighting traitorous muslim governments, or coalition troops. He also mentioned how CSIS basically tried to buy him out by offering him money, if he would work for them, and provide information to resistance fighters in Iraq. He claimed he knew brothers who were fighting overseas..particularly in Iraq. Zakaria and Faheem and Abdul Qayum are all innocent. I know the guys from Mississauga personally, and I even prayed with them till last friday. Abdul Qayum was angry at the Canadian government for sending troops to slaughter Afghani people. For this statement of legitimate complaint, that s.o.b. traitor Wajid Khan reported him to the authorities. And from there, we know what C.S.I.S. and R.C.M.P. did with him. Come time in 2006, we have a new asshole in power (Stephen Harper), and now the secret service bastarts know what to do with these guys.
Now, why would a bunch of kids who KNOW they are being harassed by CSIS want to build a bomb? I mentioned that Zak's cell phone detonator was for his electrical engineering assignment in university. I also mentioned he temporarily quit his desire to go to jihad overseas.
I don't know of Steven Chand, but I suspect that he may in fact be the agent provocateur. I don't know if Faheem and Zakaria even knew of him. I talked with Zak till the morning before he got arrested. As for the Imam, I don't know him (At least not by name). If I see him by face, I may or may not recognize him. However, that Imam is irrelevant. As long as there are muslims, who feel that there lands are being invaded, their honour robbed, their women raped, and their people massacred, there WILL ALWAYS be militant JIHAD. We don't need Faheem and Zak and Abdul Qayum to tell us this. We also know that these people wanted to go to fight jihad overseas.This is well known by my muslim friends, and it is our enemy that they are innocent. Zakaria didn't believe in Wahabbism, bu
When I met with Faheem last summer, he and me had a discussion on spies and traitors. He told me of the spies (from Algerian National, Israeli, and French intelligence)that were all over Algeria killing civilians in the name of the Islamists. Same thing goes for Kashmir, which Faheem considered to be a fake Jihad, because it was loaded with crooked Pakistani/Indian spies. Only one group he considered in Kashmir was legite..the Junduz. The GIA (anyone remember Ahmed Rassam?), Faheem considered was an intel op by foreign intelligence. At the same time, I told him that if he wanted to go to jihad overseas, he should make sure that he doesn't get manipulated or deceived by spies and intel agents who are also active in the war zones (be it iraq or afghanistan). I mentioned to him of how the Mossad/Shin Beit ran the Izzadeen Al-Qassam brigades of Hamas. I also questioned the character called Sayyid Qutb, who he was a fan of, as being a freemason (which Faheem didn't believe). He agreed with me of the Israeli control of the militant groups like Hamas, but at the same time he said that his "aqeedah" or belief was what mattered the most, and his belief with the militants would be on the right path...so therefore no spies could infiltrate his network.
I also met up with Saad Khalid a few months ago. All dressed in military fatigues (as a supporter of militant jihad overseas myself), I downloaded videos from YouTube, and other websites, which showed Anglo-American forces being blown to bits by IEDs (or of Russian forces in Chechnya). I would show it to the muslims in my campus, and then say "Allahu Akbar" whenever a humvee or tank blew up, just to incite them. They all told me to turn it off, as there were cameras in the room, and that it was not "safe". I told them it is a free country, and it was not child pornography. They did not enjoy watching it with me, but I did it anyways. I also talked to Sa'ad Khalid about this, and he told me to shut up, asking me whether I was a CSIS agent or not. I just said nope, I was a regular muslim supporting the jihad overseas. Sa'ad Khalid led the prayers sometimes, and he didn't seem like he was ever into talking or supporting Mujahideen overseas - at least not publicly (which I did so openly-in front of muslims and non-muslims alike). He never preached militancy, I did all the time (At the same time I used to dispel the allegations of muslims being the perpetrators of terrorist attacks like 9-11,7-7, 3-11, Bali, Iraq bombings, and other events). So in a way, I was benefitting the muslims as discarding the terrorist allegations against us, and at the same time supporting the resistance overseas.
P.S. Abdul Qayum didn't want to go fight Jihad overseas. This is all nonsense.
ONLY man who was dedicated, and could never be bought out by CSIS (who wanted to bribe him to be an infiltrator and snitch)was Faheem. The others I don't know about. But I presume they are innocent, after all this is what we know o
They were all supporters of Syed Qutb.
Myra, Bernard Lewis, Attaturk, and Daniel Pipes are JEWS that want to destroy or pacify Islam. They want to take the politics out of it, and just make it a spiritual belief system, like Christianity is today, or Hinduism and Sikhism. The muslims arrested in Toronto saw injustices committed against fellow believers overseas (and I agreed with them on this too), and wanted to correct that by taking action (in this case joining the jihad overseas).
P.S. Xymphora. Save all the text before a hacker breaks into this blog. I am doing it now as well.
CSIS agents have told us that they are tracking any blogs and websites that may give "support" to these alleged terrorists. Please show them that they are weak, and cannot do anything about it. Keep on posting more information up, and I am basically saving the text in this convo.
My belief is that Stephen Chand is the agent provocateur. Or maybe not?!?
None of these guys even considered "wahabbism" a legitimate terminology. An appropriate way to describe SOME of these guys, would be as Salafis. Thnx
All them guys in Mississauga, I believe are innocent. Watch out for Steven Vikash Chand.
Thanks for staying on this story. You're blog is an invaluable source of information!
Solidarity!
Xymphora, how much text can your blog handle?
the website these guys were on from when they were tracked is...www.shaheed.com
I have spent years asking myself which so-called 'terrorists' were provocateurs and which were patsies, but there is a deeper way of looking at it, which treats the 'terrorist' mindset as an unconscious mirroring of the real activity of the ruler. An exponent of this view is the Scottish Sufi Shaykh Abdalqadir al Murabit (once known as Ian Dallas):
http://www.shaykhabdalqadir.com/
...1_30052006.html
not content with calling the 'terrorist'/patsies nihilists and Wahhabis, he has been known to call them Isma'ilis - he has a lamentable attitude to Shi'ism.
according to the wives of those accused, their husbands are innocent, and the most they did was go online on internet chat rooms supporting the jihad overseas in Afghanistan/Iraq/Filastine/Chechnya/Filippines/
Aceh. Is this reason for locking them up?
who the fuck came up with the fairy tale about the ammonium nitrate? Where is the evidence? Or the 3 tons? Or the truck?
No Myra, I'm not a Muslim, but my background is: Indo-Pakistani Muslim parents.
As a student of religion I believe that there was a conflict between the mystical and the literalist elements of Islam in the 12th-13th centuries, which, not being resolved, has led to the sad current state of the Ummah.
(The sack of Baghdad in the 13th century by the Mongols and colonial divisive policies contributed as well, perhaps Muslims can change as a result of the current day sack of Baghdad)
My own opinion is that a Muslim should stick as much to the Quran as possible, but recognise that Hadith and Sunna are open to interpretation, given that the historical context for each has not been fully explored.
There is the internal Jihad, of course, but also, the external one as a means of self defense. I do know that no true Muslim would attack civilians, or women and children, but most people do not, unfortunately.
And only the illiterate would accept Bernard Lewis as an expert on Islam. What I hope for the Ummah is that one day, they will come out of their weakness and see how they are being manipulated.
And when will the Mahdi, or a new Salahuddin emerge?
Salman, I really appreciate your honesty and courage in writing to update us on your friends. Yes, Stephen Chand probably is the provacateur, along the lines of Richard Reid, John Mohammed, and 'Muhammad Atta'.
I believe your friends were set up, and visiting websites does not in itself prove anything, but, keeping in mind that many of these sites are honey traps for angry young men, beware.
You may be angry at Wajid Khan, but you do know that Imam Hindy also reported someone to CSIS, as stated in the Star? When someone starts mouthing off, the first impression one may get is that person may be a CSIS agent, and the reaction may be to report them just to cover your ass, an activity that I'll leave to your fellow Muslims of course.
Now you've spoken your mind here, have you approached the media? I'd be interested in your experiences with them.
I will say one thing though. The Jihadists have been so thoroghly infiltrated, that any who go abroad only end up on the return flight to Guantanamo. Stay home, remain militant, become politically and media involved, and support anyone, anyone, who will withdraw Canadian troops from Afghanistan. Thsi still is your country, regardless of the shits in power.
And I do hope that one day a hundred thousand Muslims will march in the streets of Toronto, with one sign, "Innocent until proven guilty"
Unlikely that will happen, though.
Tip for CSIS: here's a list of terrorists currently meeting in Ottawa.
Mystical is one thing, but a tacit understanding that 'truth' is not a simple verbal formula is another. The fact is, 'truth' is not a simple verbal formula, not even the Qur'an is unambiguous 'truth', because it requires interpretation of Arabic terms no longer current, or whose meanings may have changed, because it contains later Suras which abrogate earlier ones, and because, obviously, it fails to mention many problematic issues at all. Humans are such complicated beings that, given even a set of propositions that are 'true', they will build elaborate systems of tacit privilege which seem to conform to this 'truth' but actually subvert it totally.
I think the most interesting comparison is with the religions of the further East, which are not based on Judaic premises. For instance, if you take the Indian scriptures, the idea that they are 'infallible' (and thus that, if you follow their suggestions, you are guaranteed some sort of benefit) would not have arisen until quite recently, when European thought patterns started to take hold. Previously it would have been perfectly OK to say that Gods too can lie, or even that the notions of 'truth' and 'lie' were simply inapplicable, since there are no Divine 'facts'. In other words they were treated as inspiring poetry, not as instruction manuals (except maybe among Brahmins : I should be interested to compare the Brahminic lifestyle with its uneasy privileges to the Orthodox Jewish one).
The most irritating and harmful Jewish trait (which one can observe easily if one listens to Israeli radio) is the tendency to attempt moral blackmail against 'God', which is connected to the Wiesel stance, but is pretty common in the religion as a whole. It takes the form of saying, "You owe us one, God, so kindly stop prevaricating and deliver". Of course, a real God would totally piss on these people.
"Because it contains latter suras which abrogated earlier ones."
That is highly contentious and would not be accepted by a single sufi, it is a tick of literalists and political ideologues, which is frankly absurd, and shows an inability to read or understand the Quran.
Salman Hossain,
I think Man From Atlan gave you an excellent advice
Rowan,
Excellent!
The absurdity of knowing God!
This is the danger of anthropomorphizing the notion of 'God.' It is nothing more then the projection of mans desire to control what is not known and fixing it in time and space and making it the mirror image of mans self deception born out of contingency.
Manufacturing, if you will, reality.
It's the intellectual marketing of a concept which can justify one's neurotic propensity for certainty. Thus, so much violence in the world, is the outcome of intellectual idolatry rather then the mystery behind the phenomenon. Its dead ended.
Without mystery man is left entirely to his own will. Spiritual atrophy, at the expense of process and becoming, leads man to the hell of his own creation, emptiness and isolation and to the projection of a cruel and angry god bound only to flesh, ego and eventually toward figurative and physical suicide.
The necessary inner dialectic of contingency and transcendence is aborted as well as its host.
Nihilism is its child. That is, one who cannot love others because it cannot love its own human limitations and therefore, itself.
What kind of trial is this? ALL of the accused have been tortured. Is there any evidence at all of them being guilty? Why the hell would 6 people want to buy ammonium nitrate? Who the hell sent it in their name.
Man from Atlan, thnx for the respomse:
Fahim Ahmad was the guy that Imam Aly Hindi called on the police. Why? Because he bought a gun to protect himself and probably his wife as well from harassment by those assholes in CSIS. That is why he sent the two Somalis across the border. He ain't no CSIS agent. Aly Hindi was worred about him. That is why he reported him to the police (before he may commit any crime). We know who's a sellout and who's not ...and after this incident...we hope that everything will turn out for the better for the community.
As for the cases of Allen Mohammed, "Muhammed Atta", and Richard Reid...all I can say is the latter two guys are framed. In the case of Richard Reid, he was mentally unstable from beforehand, and he was sent to TEL AVIV, ISRAEL for torture, indoctrination, drugging, and sleep deprivation before he was released in France under the auspices of Israeli Security personel (who had control of that Airport). He never went to Afghanistan, nor did he meet up with any "Al-Qaeda" people. The whole story is made up. He was mentally unstable from the beginning, and sent on a flight to do what he is alleged to have done...to show the illusion of the existence of "islamic suicide terrorist"...as for Mohammed Atta, there was the real one, and there was the Israeli impersonator who framed him and he got killed within a couple of days after 9-11...his dad reported he had talked with him, and he said the Mossad/American Secret service was looking for him.
There was an Israeli posing as Atta, and possibly other Israelis using fake Arab ID's posing as the Arab hijackers.
http://cytations.blogspot.com/20...ng-as-
atta.html
I don't know much about John Allen Mohammed, but that dude is pretty much suspect as well.
Tiger Eye,
Perhaps you misunderstand nihilism. I'm a nihilist of a philosophical buddhist persuasion and it works for me just dandy. The great sigh of relief for me when I arrived at an understanding of buddhism was that I no longer needed to believe in anything. Thank god!
Dear Somebody,
Think about what you just said!
"... I no longer needed to believe in anything"! The "I"?
If the "I" were eliminated from your statement you would be a "nobody." And a "nobody" cannot logically make a statement about anything, including an understanding of a Buddhist philosophical belief system. Where does your volition to the "'I', no longer NEEDED to believe in anything," come from? You needed to believe in the teachings of Buddhism. No?
Who is "I"? And does "I" no longer need to eat, sleep, experience pain, etc.?
"'It' works for 'me' just fine"?
What works for you just fine? How about this:
http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html
Your semantics' of denial is an active conscious act of participation and incarnation. Buddhism is also a philosophical discipline and not recognized as a theology. I have found that people, of Western Europe and the US, that I have know who were Buddhist, were often passive aggressive, "self" centered and emotionally distant, although I find that I do have an affinity with Zen and The Tao, more than the desire of a delusional philosophy that makes emotionally suppressed ghosts of sentient living beings.
Even Roman Catholics are aware of the importance of the Greek term, kenosis. It is a notion of an emptying out of all the layers of identities given us in our worldly experience, even the ego. When the layers are all removed, the ego confronted, we finally reach the depth of our divine nature and discover the divine Godmanship at the core of each of our being. The Christ was able to do this. And He suffered for it.
Go out into the world and suffer love and service to somebody. Like the Velveteen Rabbit, become real and present in life.
Man from Atlan, what would be the appropriate way to get a hold of the media? I have never been in this situation before.
Thanks Tiger Eye,
Who knew that a lack of belief could travel so far? I'm prepared to call a halt on that journey before I talk myself into wondering who that fellow in the mirror is.
And thanks for the link. But I'm given to thinking that Tibet has as much to do with the Buddha (or with me, ha ha) as Easter eggs have to do with Christ.
Somebody,
My friend, I believe that Easter eggs do have a valid relationship to life.
Many pagan symbol's and rituals are just intimations of universal observations about such themes as fertility, even in the Catholic imagination.
The Celts believed that Eostre, the goddess of fertility and of light. Her favorite animal was the hare. The Germans called her Ostara.
Everywhere, in Western Europe, she represented love, fertility and growth and was associated with the moon.
I won't go into much detail here, but the Buddhist have a saying about the moon, "shadow of the hare in the moon" instead of the man in the moon.
So the great Mother (matrix, matter, mother), as well as the human mother, gave birth to the "new" man, the Christ.
The Church didn't steal other people's traditions but integrated them into the Catholic (Universal) Church.
An Italian tradition which is seen in their artistic renderings of the Blessed Mother, often shows her hands clasped in prayer near the location of her heart. The hand is slightly relaxed and resembles a woman's vulva. She is the divine fertile Mother through which human souls enter this life.
It is no mistake that Easter (the fertile time of the year) is associated with fertility, the egg and the hare.
Salman, here's my e-mail if you want to contact me: manfromatlan@rogers.com. and my name's Naseer Ahmad.
(Last time I published my e-mail and name here I did get a flood of spam, so any penis enlargment companies trolling this site, I'm already on your list 
nobody: nihilism does have all sorts of baggage and I doubt you deny all existence or all religions, laws, and morals, therefore the 'philosophical buddhist persuasion' might better describe you anyway.
(I'm a pagan buddhist hindu universalist myself pleased to meet you.)
Your point is well taken, that Tibetan feudalism has nothing to do with Buddhism, and Buddhist politics, which can be quite vicious, again, has nothing to do with the Buddha.
I disagree with T.E. here, Buddhism can come from a space of loving compassion, and any Buddhist can be of service to others, as can nihilists, of course.
The Dalai Lama has changed over the years, and I hope he reflects well on the karma of his own people, and what responsibility he himself bears for their suffering. I used to call him a spiritual poodle because he Never spoke about the suffering of the Palestinians, (more politics because of his rather large American Jewish following) if he could not speak to the suffering of others, why should we pay attention to him when he spoke of his own people?
Yes,
I seem to have broken Salman Hossain's thread which is unfortunate as I it found particularly intrigueing. Apologies, but then again it is a free-for-all comments section.
Might I recommend an organ to him that is somewhat removed from his sphere but still better than nothing and may get the ball rolling. http://www.greenleft.org.au/index.htm Here in Australia we have greater media concentration than any other english speaking country. Subsequently Australia dimly follows the neo-con agenda. The Green Left Weekly is the lonely exception. It is truly non-corporate. Pilger is a fan and they publish him frequently. To be honest I expect that ASIO reads their emails and taps their phone and would feed anything they find to the Canadians. But then again I expect that xymph would be monitored in the same fashion also. Anyway if is a bit too antipodean and you'd prefer something closer to home they'd be able to help you out. I'd also recommend you get in touch with Michael Rivero at whatreallyhappened. Best of luck.
Otherwise by way of belief or lack thereof, here's where I'm at - The only certain thing is change. And that's it. Sure enough this is a somewhat terrifyingly simple foundation on which to decide how one should behave. There's not much to cling to. But underneath this is also the fact that all human behaviour can be placed (albeit messily) on a continuum that has as its two ends selfishness and selflessness. I always picture it with selfishness on the right hand-hand side and selflessness on the left. But that's just my idle fancy.
Anyway I keep it simple. If what you do tends to true selflessness it's (ahem) 'good'. And vice versa. Everything else tends to fall apart under the weight of its own paradoxes. Not forgetting complexity - which is where I find the conversation all too often goes. I'm a simple soul, me.
Daryl smith from iamthewitness.com is an agent provocateur and a marxist.
He should not be trusted to tell the truth. He has attacked pro white groups for NO reason.
No reason?
I thought he felt that they are actually Zionist fronts, to keep the anti-Semitic issue on the front page. That's a good reason for him believeing that they are involved.
Ironically it is Israel that is now experiencing a growth of an anti-Semitic neo-Nazi youth gangs, of which, are mostly Russians.
Your, "for NO reason", is Zionist troll speak.
Salman, are you ok? Waiting to hear your reply.
My buzz, buzz, phrase at the moment is "constitutive ambiguity".
This means that we are always unable completely to disentangle our own motivations and loyalties, and that this is also true of the professional employees of the police and intelligence (and public health) services.
Certain crisis phenomena occurring at the borderlines of autosuggestion, allosuggestion, and hysteria allow us to gain valuable data about the nature and progress of psychological dynamics. It may be wise to assume that nothing that seems to occur during these events is actually really real.
A tenative conclusion is that both sides in the main conflict now occurring find their personal justification in the degree of hallucinatory monomania they claim to have observed in their opponents. Each claims to be justified in his own monomania by the monomania he claims to have observed in his opponent, and both are actually monomaniacal to the extent that they have failed to fully deconstruct the imaginative assumptions on which their world-view are based (race, class, and faith, being obvious examples).
In this sense a sort of experimental nihilism is of value, providing it has overcome its own tendency to preserve a little sacrosanct corner of belief and fear and oppositional identity intact.
One does one's best.
I should have mentioned gender along with race, class and faith, above : there is an extremely interesting dimension to the conflict connected to this which is not obvious (well, it is obvious, but we avoid thinking about it and allow small castes within the religious and public health worlds to monopolise it). This dimension is diet : we are what we eat. Women know more about this than men do (except when the men suddenly become ill).
About agents provocateurs: Swedısh journalıst and wrıter Jan Guıllou, former polıtıcal actıvıst, saıd ıt very succıntly: ın a dıssıdent polıtıcal forum, anyone advısıng vıolence ıs eıther an ıdıot or a polıce offıcer.
So, too did Malik Shabazz, (Malcolm X) first.
Thnx for your concern Man from Atlan, yes I am ok and doing fine Alhamdul'illah.
Now, based on what I have heard, when the CSIS criminals came in and arrested Zak and the rest of the family (including the womenfolk in their niqabs/burkhas). Their grandmother was praying in prostration, and they handcuffed her, what a bunch of inconsiderate bastards. Moroever, when they listed the charges against Zakaria, he claimed he didn't know what Ammonium nitrate was. Our "terrorist" suspect doesn't know the scientific name for fertilizer, and somehow he is supposed to make a bomb? In other words, neither him nor the other five guys ordered the Fertilizer. I also don't believe they went 700 km north of Toronto, and Zak fired any guns at government offices. Zak never held a real gun in his life before (maybe a paintball gun). Once the brothers were playing paintball behind our local mosque, and paranoid neighbours called the police, who came and harassed them
for alleged terrorist activity. I doubt now there even was a training camp in the first place. Training to go to jihad overseas doesn't mean committing a terrorist act on home soil. So now I know for a FACT that they DIDN'T ORDER THE AMMONIUM NITRATE!!! In other words, it is a complete setup and frameup. Most of them didn't talk, nor did they want to go to Jihad. Only maybe Zak (he renounced his plans a year after), Abdul Qayuum, and Faheem. None of them influenced each other. None of them were agents of each other. Abdul Qayum was upset at the Canadian government for sending troops overseas, and he voiced his frustrations. Faheem is also an idiot because he talked to much, and was the main recruiter to go fight overseas (plus he knew he was being watched by CSIS...so he would NEVER do any act of terror). They are ALL innocent, and the government doesn't have a case against them either, that is why they want a publication ban, and no one to see the evidence publicly (so called "secret" evidence). In other words, they have no evidence.
Next, how will I approach the media? Who/Where should I go? I would like your views on how to undertake this task in a safe and legite manner cause all I want is the public to know the truth. Thnx for your help.
Here is what I am going to be doing...I will basically be doing a report on this in complete details as I am in the process of collecting mroe information. I will do a good write up. And then I will distribute it to various sites. Right now I am trying to get in contact with Zak's in laws. Ghany, the 22 year old graduate from Macmaster, Hamilton is totally innocent. He NEVER mentioned anything about jihad or politics. Neither did Asad Ansari, and Shareef AbdelHaleem. This event is a test for the Muslims. I pray that these guys all get released as soon as possible.
Naseer, I will also be contacting you soon. I need ALL of you in this website to spread the truth about the events so far that I have related to you in the comments section. Please spread it wide and far. Give me some time to collect information, and spread it via websites like rense.com, rumormills.com, and others -mainstream and not. This event is not about Muslim/non-Muslim dichotomy. It is about bringing justice to those who are innocent, and to ensure that nothing like this happens to others again. Thnx for your replies.
Thanks nobody for your help. I appreciate all of your inputs.
Time is of the essence, Salman. This site probably is monitored and your IP address traceable. Keep your notes in a safe place, and make a copy for yourself.
I know how to approach the media and also know a lot of people in alternative websites, Israel Shamir, Rayelan of Rumor Mill News, John Kaminski and many blogs.
If you allow me to, I can assist you with basic editing; I am a writer as well.
The question of trust comes up. I trust you are who you say you are, and as for myself, I can assure you that I have been around for many years, and can provide you with references if necessary.
I could be classified more as a Buddhist than a Muslim, but still, I choose to help because in times like this good people should help others; it's a matter of fairness and justice.
Still, google "Truly Allah favours the Muslims" which appeared on Liberty Forum; I am the Cicero who wrote it and a thousand more elsewhere, as Cicero, Man From Atlan, and plain Naseer Ahmad, M.D.
You don't need a long essay right now, first all you need is a two page point format paper that I and others here can help post in a lot of places.
I would approach the media on your behalf first, to ensure safety, but after that it'll be safer for you to be as public as possible.
The important thing is that the more publicity goes out to counter gov't secrecy, the better. A lawyer may give different advice, and suggest you keep this under wraps, but they would want to work within the system, and I don't think that's a good idea. A good public airing of facts that can prove the whole thing is a set up counts more in the court of public opinion than something argued in a closed court room. You will eventually be called to testify on behalf of your friends, but it is v.v. important to get the facts out.
Yes, please contact me, I can promise you will get coverage in the Toronto media.
thnx a lot for your offer...i will write an essay within the next few days...notice how i took my time to confirm my suspicions and gather the facts straight...other muslims around me agree with me too...but they basically are too pussy to come out and say anything...man from Atlan, do u know these guys personally from the alternative websites? I have kept my notes safe in many different places...so no 1 can mess it up...i have backups
and i'll pass it on to others as well
Naseer, copy all the info u have on the comments section. It will be useful later on. Thnx a lot!
Salman, you're welcome. I can see where people might be fearful, but to be afraid to do the right thing? If someone is innocent, we should try to help.
Now we don't need to discuss details in this open forum, but I'm going to give a few pointers. You must present facts, not opinions as to why you consider them to be innocent.
How do you know they didn't order the ammonium nitrate? Or go up North?Or about Amara's engineering project? Which professor assigned it to him?
Did any of them to your knowledge go on camping trips? Who was approached by CSIS, and what was their connection with the Somalis in jail?
Publishing on any blog would be easy, but to get to speak to the MSM would only happen if you had hard evidence, or direct quotes from one of the accused.
I also would suggest you make up a flow chart showing the various individuals you know and their connections with the others. Did they ever talk about them; eg: did Faheem ever mention Stephen Chand?
And who are you in all this? A friend trying to help, or the man who wore military fatigues and spoke of jihad? Did any of you specifically say you would not condone attacks on civilians, or do anything here on home soil?
thnx for your reply Man From Atlan...I have a few problems though...the accused are in prison...and we can't talk to them. However, I remember what we talked about when we used to hang out. Moreover, all the information I am getting is not only coming from me, but from others who used to hang out with them more than me. I am just doing the reporting. Yes, we all said we wouldn't condone attacks on civilians. I and other friends personally asked Zak/Faheem, and others if they support attacks on innocent civilians, and they both said "No".
I know others that might be able to get a hold of Stephen Chand, but Faheem never mentioned him to me or any of us. I do know people that knew him though.
Does accounts from eye-witnesses like my friends and acquaintances become valid? I have direct quotes from accused, friends, (myself being one), and others.
In all this, I am a buddy/acquaintance trying to help because they are innocent and it is a disaster to the image of Muslims in Canada, especially when they are innocent. I also did talk about Jihad overseas...all the time...and I still do. Nothing in the world will stop me from that...especially not them assholes in CSIS and RCMP.
Now, it is my duty to collect the evidence in hard core format (Audio), and that means I will have to get together with all my friends/acquaintances/and the accused family members, and try and do this as soon as possible. I will also get audio evidence from each person that I interview. This will be done by myself and a few selected individuals. I will release more details to you later on. Whether they had "training" camp or not is pure BS and irrelevant...the main thing is that they did not want to attack any innocent civilians at home soil.
Once again thnx a lot for your help and input. Appreciate hearing from you.
Salman, you very carefully want to consider what you are saying. If you and your friends were at any time thinking of going to Afghanistan, where you potentially would have been fighting, Canadian soldiers, then you will sink your case. That is called treason, and the judge will convict your friends, and so will the public condemn all Muslims. You can say they never intended to attack civilians, but, no one will believe you.
Read my letter in yesterday's Now Magazine under "Warning to Muslim Youth" http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues...-15/
letters.php
You may also want to see my June 7 comment at: http://www.yayacanada.com/
toront...o_comments.html
The issue is simple. Was it entrapment or not? Did they order the fertiliser or not? Did someone take them up North or not? Did they have illegal guns?
I suggest that audio records are not enough, video would be better. Written transcripts are crucial, so you can provide them to the defense team.
Yes, eyewitness accounts and direct quotes are very good. Hearsay is not. Conjecture is not. Eg: 'why would he be shooting a government office up north?' But your direct testimony above, that they all said, over and over again, that they never would attack civilans, is powerful.
And lastly, what do you mean by Jihad?
I suggest you put together a summary of our evidence to present to as many outlets as possible.
your evidence, that is.
I think it wonderful that some people are speaking up. Anything concrete that will help the innocent.
i have a problem with the treason thing...there is a coalition deployment on behalf of NATO, not Canada. Canadian troops are not fighting on behalf of Canada, but rather on behalf of NATO. I don't buy that treason argument, plus the only person that might have wanted to do it was Faheem, the rest didn't. Only 2 or 3 out of the whole group wanted to go to Jihad. The rest got framed. So that is about it. Thanks for your reply though. The case for Afghanistan is still not enough, because thinking about it does not mean doing it. Plus if they were hypothetically speaking in Afghanistan, there are a lot of non-Canadian troops to kill. Faheem is probably dual citizen, so there is a loophole in the law. Plus Canada is not benefiting its own interests by going there...the opium trade has increased, the Taliban is coming back, women were in fact even less secure than before,etc. etc. Canada is not fighting in Canada based on National interests. In fact the only people that have interest in Afghanistan are International Jewish Drug lords (from Russia, England, France, Germany, USA) that run the opium trade, worth over 600 billion dollars a year, and that is why they had to topple the Taliban. Opium/heroine has flooded the streets of the West now after the invasion of Afghanistan. We need the right information to go out about what is happening because of Canada's involvement in the war. After all, the arrests of 17 innocent people is based on politics.
Thnx a lot for your info. Looking to hear from you.
Good, if you're thinking things through.
I think it's hypocritical that when Jihadists went to Afghanistan or Chechnya to fight Russians it was ok but to go to Iraq or Afghanistan to fight Americans is somehow a 'terrorist' act.
If all you and your friends did was talk about going to Afghanistan or Iraq that's fine too. Just be aware that you're not, by law, allowed to belong to any 'terrorist' organisation.
It's funny that when Concordia's Student Union expelled Hillel for recruiting Canadian Jews to join the IDF, there was an uproar even though Canada's Foreign Services Act prohibits recruitment or service in the armed forces of any other country, a law not much enforced by Canada when it comes to service in Israel; the Toronto Star recently wrote a glowing article in their Travel section about volunteers providing 'support' services for the IDF. You know, clerical, laundry, anything that freed the IDF to do their prime job of oppressing Palestinians.
Canada also has a long history of volunteers going abroad to fight. The Mackenzie Papineaus fought against the fascists in the Spanish Civil War of 1936, Jewish volunteers in Palestine in 1948, Greeks Serbians etc.
Since you'll be arguing your case in a public forum, you need to be aware how easy it would be to trip yourself up. One wrong statement will create a negative sound bite that'll be used to negate every thing you have to say.
You need to set up a group, say Group to defend the Toronto 17. Any suggestions for catchier names and acronyms? Newspaper editors love that. These are the important points that you've shared with us.
1. These young men were entrapped by the RCMP/CSIS.
2. They didn't order the fertiliser, someone else did.
3. They told you, and many others, they never would attack civilians because it was against Islamic principles.
4. The evidence against them was manufactured. Eg: the cell phone transmitter/electronics project.
5.They did not commit a crime, nor were they planning one, and the presumption of innocence is at the very core of Canadian values.
Thanks for the reply, Nas. The only one dedicated amongst the 17 to go to jihad overseas was that idiot named Faheem. Moreover, he was practically sanctioned by CSIS (not allowed to get a job at times, and they would literally make life hell for him) and was under constant surveillance. Therefore, he was just talking fantasy. Moreover, it is his choice to go to jihad overseas...no one else bought him into it. Now if one kills UN "peace keepers" is that treason against "World Government" like say a Somali National killed UN peace keepers (in 1994 they did so) or Iraqi mujahideen bombed UN Headquarters. Canada is heading under NATO auspices into Afghanistan, not as an independent entity. As a result, there is no case for treason. Note also during the Yugoslavian civil war, Canadians of Serbian background went abroad to help their ethnic brothers, and they weren't charged with treason unless they were directly involved in the killings of Canadian nationals, and then they would get light sentences after that. What we need to do is also expose the politics behind this whole mess.
Just advising you to be aware how you communicate your thoughts.
Make a cohesive argument about religious freedom, civil liberties, and the presumption of innocence and you will win, even if it will be a moral victory only.
Talk about (or emphasise) Jihad and you will lose the judge, the media and public opinion.
Lawyer Julian Falconer said he felt the (Supreme Court)judges hearing the challenge to security certificate laws might be influenced by the Toronto arrests.
You have an even greater responsibility now not to do anything that will prejudice your friens case, or that of your community.
You also have no time left. The case has disappeared under the radar, World Cup fever., final Stanley Cup game etc. Until the trial, it'll only come up again when there's a vote in Parliament about Afghanistan or CSIS
Set up a defense committee. Get the other Muslim Students Associations involved. Do you have any lawyers or law students? Assemble facts, not opinions. What do you know about each defendant. Speak to their families. Find the inconsistencies in the government's case, and hammer at it. Create reasonable doubt. Appeal to Canadian fairness. Stress your loyalty to Canada, but, you disagree with its policies. And use thsi opportunity to organise within the larger Muslim community. You're all Muslims, bearded or non-bearded, hijabed or not. Time to ask them to support the 17, not just hide behind their doors.
The politics of this mess? Yes it's unfair, so?
What you have to do is find proof, even circumstantial, of their innocence. The government's case is weak, but the 17 still can be convicted. And win or lose, we're still in Afghanistan. You need to ally with the anti-war movement, but, I wouldn't trust the NDP at this time.
I repeat, set up a defense committee. Spend less time here and more on the phone. Go!
hey whats up...i'll get back to you as soon as I can on this.
You may want to talk to the family lawyers as well. Mubin Shaikh's outing as the informant throws the case wide open; one young man's already been released on bail. Were you at this meeting, BTW? http://www.nowtoronto.com/issues.../
news_story.php
If not, why not?
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I regards to Salman Hossain, the jerkoff posting comments about how good it is to kill Canadian soldiers, I think it would be good if he got a good dose of lead into his diet, served to him at a rather high velocity.
Go back to Bangledesh and wait for the next cyclone to wash away your village, you moron.
To Salman Hossain, I dare you to go into any legion hall and crank up your rhetoric about killing western soldiers. You got a big mouth on the Internet, but you wouldnt last a minute on the streets touting that stuff. Idiots like you give all Muslims a bad name.
I HOPE Salman Hossain DIES a horrible nasty death soon.
Get back to your hell hole asswipe.
May a thousand aids bearing ticks and fleas infest your groin (where your brains are) and you die an indignant death like the pedophile arafart pig did.
Salman – is it true that your existence is the result of your mother, a case of Pabst Blue Ribbon and a stray dog?
HEY Salman Hossain ... YOU BIG MOUTH. GET THE HELL OUT OF CANADA AND GO BACK TO YOUR MUD SHACK IN BENGLADESH... YOU HAVE A BIG MOUTH TALKING ABOUT OUR SOLDIERS AS YOU HIDE IN THE UNIVERISTY... REMEMBER IDIOT... MOHAMMED WAS A DISGUSTING PEDOPHILE WHO OPPRESSED WOMEN... HE PREFERED BOYS.. SO MUCH FOR YOUR GREAT RELIGION YOU ASSHOLE
Whoa - that's as disgusting as a Salman post. Call Hossain out personally for being a disgusting POS but stick to that. Slandering of all Muslims and Islam is way, way off-side and for some justifies the Salman's of the world. The only difference between you and the guy you are attacking is that you didn't condone violence. Other than that? You're no better. Shame.
HEY...MUSLIMS ARE DISGUSTING DEGENERATES WHO HATE ANYTHING THAT IS GOOD AND WESTERN... LETS NUKE MECCA AND THAT STUPED STONE OF THE FACE OF THE EARTH...HEY ASSHOLE MUSLIMS... NEXT TIME YOU TOUCH ONE WESTERN SOLDIER, WE WILL SEND IN 6000 NUCLEAR BOMBS ON THAT PIECE OF CRAP CALLED MECCA...AND BY THE WAY....JESUS GAVE CHRISTIANS THE ATOMIC BOMB FOR US TO USE AGAINST YOU JERKS... PRAISE THE LORD AND NUKE THE MUSLIM FILTH OF THIS WORLD!!!
I wonder if Muslims are dirty illiterate P is just Salman posting to support his own position of there being some big conspiracy.
Oh, and after your little rants went public, you are going to be about zero use to your friends on the stand. Good job you fucking twit.
Salman - as a Jew, I of course find your words deranged and offensive.
That said, I must still compliment the wonderfully stylish "retro" approach to your antisemitism.
Vile as it is, it's refreshing to see such honesty in your racism. These days, far too many racists coyly mask their antisemitism by using the word "Zionist" instead of "Jew".
This, they think, makes their wacko conspiracy theories and incitement to violence look like "legitimate political comment". The more weaselly cowardly ones even protest that they aren't antisemites. Life would be so much simpler if they were as honest and simple as you.
Anyway Salman, good luck in jail. The sex life you finally get, will I'm sure, help with your anger management issues.
What a fucking kike, whoever wrote the last comment. There are good jews out there, and I know some personally, but you are fucking kike. i guess your circumcision gone pretty badly.
Personally, if this is what Salaman Hossain believes, so be it. He as THE FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION which is granted by our government.
I don't support him in any way, but many post here are at the same level as Mr. Hossain's only they are directed against him, not canada.
My dog's breath smells like dog food.
Hey - do any of you have child brides? According to this "Islamic scholar", 8 year old girls in Yemen get their periods and are fair game:
http://
elderofziyon.blogspot.com...pedophilia.html
Anyone else feel dirty knowing this "Islamic scholar" is down with touching kids? Anyone else think there might be something wrong with this?
Just wondering.
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Let's get this right. You say this Salman Hossain is living in Canada, and then openly calling for the murder of Canadian soldiers? If I were Canadian, I would be so enraged that I would want to drag any such swine from his nicely heated apartment and feed him alive to the nearest big bear.
Are the RCMP looking into the matter? Also, let the courts ascertain how Canadian law can be brought to bear on this unspeakable wretch. Forget hate crime laws, this smells possibly like TREASON.
Mr Hossain is your typicaal third world piece of dung allowed into Canada usually on spurious compassionate grounds. I presume that he and his corelionists are unhappy in the west since they seem to hate it so much. Maybe they should return to Allah's paradise and try to undermine their Islamic governments.
I scrape better than Salman Hossain from the soles of my shoes after walking the dog in the park. Salman Hossain is a dogturd who doesn't deserve to breathe Canadian air.
Certainly, I have shared Salman Hossain's name with everyone I know in the human resources sector. Dogturds like Salman Hossain should not be employed doing anything other than shovelling dogshit.
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