well, you all know how quick I am to denounce fake quotes - but every single one in this post is authentic.
by the way, if anyone is interested in how our opponents set about messing u sabout, I recommend taking a look at the endless spamming by emissaries of the ill fated French Connection on WUFYS:
http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com
This takes the perverse and deceptive form of wanting to continually trumpet the praises of Christopher Bollyn (who in fact has posted several messages at Rumor Mill News saying that he wants them to leave him alone).
I am having a remarkably difficult time finding any means of continuing with my study of this language, because EVERYONE who speaks it appears to belong to one or another ideological supremacist tendency that wants to exclude anyone it can't control.
Maybe this is because they regard the hebrew-speaking population of isro-palestine as vulnerable to propaganda in its own language, and wish to avoid this (I notice that Shamir doesn't publish his agitational tracts in hebrew).
Anyone in London who is prepared to spend an hour or two a week coaching me will get £10 per session, which is a lot better than a slap around the chops with a wet kipper.
Chris Bollyn now has a new website
http://www.bollyn.com
that appears to be authentic.
He rather distances himself from DBS even while DBS maintains a Bollyn webpage. Frankly I think this is rank behaviour by both Bollyn and DBS. Nothing wrong with parting company on friendly terms.
Eric Hufschmid is complaining that Sophie has dropped EH from her 9/11 Mysteries second edition. I can understand his complaint if it's true. His DVD Painful Questions set the format for all following 9/11 truth vids. Others made before PQ took different directions; later ones followed Eric. However Eric has made his mark, even if he is being discounted at present.
I think Eric should be philosophical about all this. This stuff does happen. Hard advice to take, I expect. He should try to design a follow-up 9/11 DVD to keep his profile high, if that is what he wants, or needs.
I mean, who for example has made 9/11: The Zionist Connection? Hmmm? Eric is the one asking people to tell the cops to arrest zionists, so why hasn't he put it all together in one dandy DVD?
He could use a pseudonym if needed.
I can't understand his complaint, why the hell should sofia have to pay danegeld to him
Of course the quotations are authentic. This is familiar stuff, not to say ancient history. We all know how our present predicament arose, but what's the way forward?
I find some grounds for hope in Orwell's hoary classic, 1984: "All past oligarchies have fallen from power either because they ossified or because they grew soft. Either they became stupid and arrogant, failed to adjust themselves to changing circumstances, and were overthrown; or they became liberal and cowardly, made concessions when they should have used force, and once again were overthrown."
Paradoxically (but hearteningly), there are signs of both tendencies in the Zionists' current statements and actions. The monster's days may be numbered.
Here is another one I found just yesterday:
Deuteronomy 7 1When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; 2And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them: 3Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son. 4For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly. 5But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire. 6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. 7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people: 8But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Having just watched some of Sir Kenneth Clark's Civilisation series, he speaks of the iconoclastic Protestants of northern Europe. During their rage and the century-long war of religion in the Reformation, there were those who longed for the state of life in which things were settled by peaceful action and verbal agreements to disagree. Montaigne wrote essays in relative isolation. Earlier, Erasmus sought to live in earlier Renaissance times, while being forced to witness ( as I suppose he did ) the execution of Thomas More by Henry VIII.
The people of action get the upper hand sometimes, and they are almost always wrong in more ways than they are right.
Why have the actions of Israel been countenanced? Why were they seen as the good guys in the Mideast by most of Europe? It was a twofer: the Jews had a homeland now and nobody much liked the Arabs (whose control of oil meant they had to be intimidated by someone). The Jews were not seen really as long-lost cousins of the Arabs (except romantically, in Britain, perhaps, for a few writers), but were seen as European colonists on an imperial mission, redeeming themselves from centuries of apparent non-combatant status (although they were always drafted into European armies).
The Bible is not a factual historic document, but trying to tease out its errors is a difficult undertaking in a world of faithful keepers of the flame. So the justification for smiting your "enemies" is about as sound as that of attacking heathen red Indians to bring about God's will in America.
With all this irrationality, there is one justification for Israel under it all: fear of the pogrom in Europe. It happened repeatedly in history, and Israel was supposed to be the way out of that long night of trouble. Sure, the victims would change.
My major quarrel with Israel is that it means Jews do not have to process reality through conscience anymore, and that is a loss for Western civilisation. Triste.
its oedipal, i reckon. notice how jewish cultural ascendancy in the christian west derives from superego mechanisms.
You mean guilt, mainly?
glad you asked, i do all my best thinking on the keyboard, and this may be why I have been accused of using WUFYS as "my own personal ouija board".
consider the chivalric myth. he wants the princess. the problem solved by the myth is, to convert his desire into a moral quest.
There are some more enlightening Zionist quotes on:
www.serendipity.li/_home.html
under Zionism.
I mean enlightening as in insightful, rather than spiritually or morally enlightening.
excuse my broken train of thought, above : what i meant to say is that it is at this point, of myth control, that the jewish cultural engineering attacks. hollywood is just a mechanical version of something a great deal older, it follows.
i have a dynamitic collage on my blog i just finished which I want to recommend, dealing with putin's bombers - check that video and compare with the quote from sean mccormack about mothballed planes.
In response to that 'mothball' comment, I went looking for the link to a headline "Russia to build 4,500 new planes" that I saw somewhere on the web. Alas I couldn't find it at my usual haunts. but I did see it.
Next they need to rebuild their Navy.
I s'pose the neocohns think another Cold War will bankrupt the Russians into surrender, again. Nevertheless a rematch might end: yankees one; russians one.
Xymph:
Who ARE these Zionists, anyway?! - to say and do such horrible things? (to the Palestinians and other goyim, especially in Iraq and in America). They sound like Satanists who just came from a worship service in the 'Synagogue of Satan', blood dripping from their fangs!
Their days are surely numbered by Yahweh - and it can't be that big a number! 
They've been running amok for a long time, while His furnace has been heating up to the right temperature for the melting to begin.
I'd say they have no more days left than between now and Dec. 21, 2012!
Yup, nothing to see here, folks. Just Zionists. Got nothing to do with Jews. Zionists is all, folks. Move along.
The problem is not that the quotes are authentic, but that anyone bringing them to light is "anti-semitic" and "spreading message of hate" and should be prosecuted and persecuted as follows;
But thus shall ye deal with them; ye shall destroy their altars, and break down their images, and cut down their groves, and burn their graven images with fire.
For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
(thanks tenset)
The truth shall be outlawed as both the concept and term as likewise anti-semitic, there can be no Eretz Israel where truth holds sway.
This is the issue in a nutshell.
thats why the expression 'jewish satanist' has no denotation.
another broken train of thought, sorry : what I mean is that th eexpression 'jewish satanist' has a connotation - a subjective meaning - for christians - but objectively - within jewish social reality - there is no situation in which it would ever be applied, because some kabbalist could spend decades dealing directly with the four princes of hell without ceasing to be a pious worshipper of yahwe - in fact, he could even curse yahwe in the theatrical way that anton lavey frequently did.
triste should stick to doing toenails.
jewry's equality:
merkava tank, approx 65 tonnes, heavily armed, heavily armored with added armor + more armor, filled with heavily armed and heavily armored 'warriors', backed by distant, hiding snipers, backed by on-foot 'warriors' also heavily armed and heavily armored and all this backed by the full might and mouth of occupied USA. all this going against:
one 8-year old palestinian boy in t-shirt, old jeans, sandals and armed with a 4 ounce stone.
these masada warriors can only fight with this type of equality. still they whine, cry, piss their pants, shit their shorts. then they hire mouths to flood the media to include blogsites to spin and twist the truth.
cowards not warriors.
a great lot is wrong with these people.
hello walls,
sabbath sunday in usa. football day for many. some would say dinosaur ball or gladiator ball or lawyer's ball.
back to the good news, walls. some american teams are replacing their indian-themed mascots with a dancing, laughing shlomo high-fiving falling towers.
every time the team scores, american shmucks stand and cheer and the dancing, laughing shlomos bring down towers.
another victory for us.
have a good day, walls. encircle more villages, take more land, create more misery.
shlomo above shoould be plural.
a great lot is wrong with these people.
5 dancing shlomos | 08.19.07 - 4:56 pm | #
litotes
some kabbalist could spend decades dealing directly with the four princes of hell without ceasing to be a pious worshipper of yahwe - in fact, he could even curse yahwe in the theatrical way that anton lavey frequently did.
Rowan Berkeley
I intuited much the same conclusion w/o recourse to the background facts.
They really have no choice but to accept that yahwe is a satanic entity and it makes their orienteering easy without moral compass (who needs it when we can determine the four directions/princes on the run?).
There is no point discussing ethics with them either, pointing out lies, contradictions and absurdities has absolutely no effect on them and only serves to frustrate and fatigue the interlocutor.
I recall being outraged at Raoul Hilberg's purely nonsensical, yet smug testimony at Zundel's trial but now I see that it is simply par for the course. He is surely toasted by the four princes now (whatever that means - let him tailor that reality to his taste).
all u r saying is that they are the devil
that is not much of an improvement from the middle ages
i'm afraid civilisation is having a lot of bad days, boys
first let's kill ALL the males -- a plague on both your houses
I would hope that my posts don't require an interpreter.
If my conclusions are illogical or based on false data, then call me on it (I am a big boy).
Yes, males deserve most of the blame but don't forget 2 things:
1) women form (a narrow) majority of electorate, and
2) the ones that have been elected so far (Indira Gandhi, Imelda Marcos, Golda Meir, Marg Thatcher to name a few), haven't exactly distinguished themselves.
Hillary/Condoleeza/Coke/Pepsi, anyone?
if Bollyn has distanced himself from Erich huffschmidt and DBS then he should LITERALLY come on his show and explain it to the world, and this will prove to the rest of us, that Chris Bollyn is ok. Bollyn having a site means jack shit. I can make a site in your name, and put up content. I think Chris Bollyn is being forced to do something against his will. CB always supported EH and DBS whenever he came on their show. If he changed his mind, he could reach that show and prove to them why they are parting company. NOT on some website.
musings, the values of the middle ages were correct - nowadays, jew run media brainwashed the masses into accepting otherwise this ancient piece of wisdom - the generalized statement that Jews are evil and tend to commit mischief.
This is a lovely case of language being awkward - I am not saying that the god of the jews is satan - that is a christian way of putting it. Nor am I saying that some jews worship god and some jews worship satan, which still assumes these two characters are just "there" and then the jews, the christians, etc., come along and decide whether to worhsip them or not. What I am saying is that judaism is so completely monotheistic that it doesnt perceive a contradiction between worshipping yahwe and cursing yahwe, worshipping satan and cursing satan - both are part of a well understood jewish dialectic (remember jacob frank!).
Anti-Zionism is perfectly justified because Zionists (especially leaders of Zionism) are recognized by the fruits (consequences) of their actions: suffering, destruction, violence and rivers of blood and tears. That behavior characterizes Satanists. Of course, not all Satanists are Zionists.
Anti-Semitism is NOT justified because many Jews are NOT Zionists. Many Jews are confused or deceived (like ZioChristians) about the Satanic nature of the Israel leadership and State.
Who is the source of this deception and confusion?
"God is not the author of confusion"
The Devil (aka Satan, Mammon, Lucifer, etc.) is known as the 'Great Deceiver' and 'the god of this world'.
The worshipers of Satan create the deception and confusion!
"Zionism: The Real Enemy of the Jews" (Alan Hart)
Some Jews are Anti-Zionists and equate Zionism with Nazism (and therefore Satanism) - Neturei Karta Jews, including rabbis, for example. True Messianic Jews are also Anti-Zionists.
Anyone who does not recognize the Satanic nature of Israel and its leaders, is either in Denial or has some other 'agenda'. Laziness (not making a sincere effort to find out the truth) is another 'agenda'.
There is NO justification for Anti-Semitism.
Are Jews responsible for the mess in the ME? NO, Zionists are responsible! - starting with Theodor Herzl.
Who are 'the rebellious house of Israel', mentioned in Ezekiel? It's the Israeli Zionists who are rebelling against Yahweh! - as all true Torah Jews (and others) will tell you.
"There will be gnashing of teeth" - and "MELTING"! (the gnashing of teeth may come before the melting!)
I have a very enogmatic recording by Drone Lebanon (an israeli jewish power electronics outfit) called "yaakov frank speaks" but it has been subjected to so much echo that I cannot make out the words...
Rowan, Judaism is Henotheistic; thou shall have no God before me. There are, is my understanding, no such psychological entities as, ego superego, id.
henotheism is an interesting concept, which I understand (I speak from memory) to mean that one deity is promoted over all other known deities within the polytheistic frame of reference.
The People and their God in eternal embrace.Other deities are impotent or fools and those that worship such worship their own reflection.
OK, but that brings me back to my original point, which is that the god of the jews is not merely yahwe in isolation but an entire imaginary cosmos within which both gods and devils serve jewish purposes.
Your idea is strong Rowan. I wish only to assert Henotheistic as a proper understanding. Similarly,there is an unproven allegation of a German Judeocide from 1940 to 45
Here is another one:
in Seymour Hersh’s account of a conversation in June 1969 between Henry Kissinger and Gabriel Valdes, then Chilean Foreign Minister:
’Mr. Minister, you made a strange speech. You come here speaking of Latin America, but this is not important. Nothing important can come from the South. History has never been produced in the South. The axis of history starts in Moscow, goes to Bonn, crosses over to Washington, and then goes to Tokyo. What happens in the South is of no importance. You’re wasting your time.’
(Seymour Hersh, The Price of Power ( 1983), p.273)
thats not an axis, thats a sphincter
'Answer my riddle correctly,' said the Sphincter, 'or else I will devour you'!
Compendium of American political babble and glaring ambiguities in nice alphabetical order:
"America is back, and bipartisan - biting the bullet with competitiveness, diplomacy, efficiency, empowerment, end games, and environmentalism, along with faith in the founding Fathers, freedom's blessings, free markets and free peoples, and most of all, God. Our great heritage has held the line for human rights, individual initiative, justice, kids, leadership, liberty, loyalty, mainstream values, the marketplace, measured responses, melting pots, the middle class, military reform, moderates, modernization, moral standards, national security, and Old Glory. Opportunity comes from optimism, patriotism, peace through strength, the people, pluralism, and points of light. Pragmatism and the power of prayer make for principle while the private sector protects the public interest. Realism can mean recycling, self-discipline, and the spirit of '76., bring stability and standing tall for strategic interests and streamlined taxation. Uncle Sam has been undaunted ever since Valley Forge, with values venerated by veterans; vigilance, vigor, voluntarism, and Western values".
Norman Solomon, The Power of Babble, p. 3.
Might have rounded it off with "our Zionist masters' orders".
I see nothing but "survival of the fittest" in America.
ANYONE KNOW WHERE CHRISTOPHER BOLLYN IS RIGHT NOW? IS HE STILL ALIVE? ARE YOU GUYS FOOLS TO BELIEVE THE JEWS/ZIONISTS ON THE WEB THAT HE IS ALIVE?
The Henotheistic model, true though I had´nt heard of it, implies the war against other beliefs, people, gods, as in Moses 5 (end) ´laws of war´ unto extermination of them undesirable neighbours.. because they may tempt the chosen of Jahwe to follow other ideas.
In other people´s pantheons the gods represented the forces on nature and their dimensions, though the Hebrews may have incorporated into Jahwe also shadows of this (specially later), the Pharisees seem to have filtered this out of the OT and left the impression of a narrow- minded tyrant promising gold and power and heavy fines. (But somewhere they have a teaching of the orders of angles?). Genozide is so (Moses 5 a.o.) a religious jewish myth, hence modern allegations of `holocaust denial´, since only a unproven, religious myth can be denied, not physical or see-able facts.
Satan is mentioned only rarely, 4 times in the OT. Of course, the famous Christian quote is the temptation of Jesus by the devil who promised him power over the world. ´Devil´ is probably derived from the Greek diabolos, adversary. May have to do with Persian Manicheans, or the idea has been strengthened by them. Also later including the Greek shepherd God Pan (goats, flute, panic) but distorted.
Nor am I saying that some jews worship god and some jews worship satan,
RB
No need to be explicit RB, I understood perfectly what you were saying.
I don't look at it from some middle-aged, as musings put it, perspective, god kung-fuing satan and all.
I am more interested in the inexorable process of intellectual decay on heels of the moral one.
Without bothering with good-bad arguments, the fact is that an ethics system provides an anchorage, rules of the game, a set of axioms that govern the development of ideas in a solid, strong vessel.
Otherwise it is like a geometry with no rules, a knotted seething mass of spaghetti instead of an orderly coordinate system and that is what Talmudist thought looks like to me.
They are just plain crazy, that's what, a schizoid mindset that feeds on its own fever.
It might be entertaining if it wasn't also dangerous to others.
Just as schizophrenics can be very artistic and creative, so can the jews and frequently are, grandstanding apart.
But I feel that on the whole, they have gone off the deep end and their culture is in free fall.
The system worked to some extent while they were forced into their ghetto groove, which in many ways gave them security and guidance, now they are collectively out to lunch in a very obnoxious and pernicious way.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/
...1654188,00.html
An Administration official told me it's not even a consideration. "IRGC IED's are a casus belli for this administration. There will be an attack on Iran."
It's rather like Tibet : there is (or was) a marvellous pantheon full of extraordinary imaginary gods and demons from different periods, mostly engaged in perpetual feud with one another, but all sharing the basic feature of really liking Tibet.
If we are honest with ourselves it's not just Judism that is the problem with the major mythology of today (a universalism derived from the jealous and vengeful desert god that denies the existance of any and all others), although that's where it had its' start, Judism's two ugly redhead step children, Islam and Christianity, are every bit as responsible. As long as our world view is defined by the idea that there is only one true god, one submissive humanity who by god's will dominates nature/the world, we will continue toward the one world order and totalitarnism. All force can be justify because god's will must pervail, utopia must be realized, we will all be equally slaves with one culture, one identity, and no soul.
I've been reading.
ANYONE KNOW WHERE CHRISTOPHER BOLLYN IS RIGHT NOW? IS HE STILL ALIVE? ARE YOU GUYS FOOLS TO BELIEVE THE JEWS/ZIONISTS ON THE WEB THAT HE IS ALIVE OR OK?
Me:
Whatever you've been reading - throw it into the fire!
"Seek and you shall find". Read T. Austin-Sparks, for starters. Oswald Chambers is good, too.
Investigate Jesus the Christ. Forget about Judaism, 'Christianity' and Islam and every other religion. You're not after a religion, you're after a Person!
I agree with you, 'Me'.
"Christ in us, the hope of Glory" 
I was in Sikkim in 72-73 with a big Tibetan ex-pat population.
I never once got the feeling that they considered themselves better than the rest of us. I found them actually quite humble, with a good sense of humor and compassion.
They were also perfectly aware that their expression of Buddhism was localized but that the grand idea was universal and abstract.
There is no point of similarity between them and Judaists.
Sal, do you think something may have happened to Bollyn?
As long as our world view is defined by the idea that there is only one true god, one submissive humanity who by god's will dominates nature/the world, we will continue toward the one world order and totalitarnism.
you mean continue in world dis-order, don't you, being that the
"one true gods" are variegated and clashing.
yes, lobro, I think so. As a matter of fact, Bollyn hasn't done an interview on iamthewitness.com after his sentencing date. He seems to have been either kidnapped or killed. God only knows. He was the best researcher into 9-11, along with Albert Pastore (who I think is Amir Ali, Ph. D), Paulo Lima, Eric Huffschmidt, and Carl Camron from FOX News. Others include the numerous anonymous bloggers at libertyforum (like Cyte from cytations.blogspot.com) who helped us understand 9-11 along with other Jewish terrorist attacks and black operations.
WHY DONT YOU ALL DO SOMETHING ABOUT BOLLYN'S DISAPPEARANCE...WHAT IF THEY STARTED TO DO THIS WITH US, AND WE BECAME THE NEXT SOVIET RUSSIA OR EASTERN EUROPE OR PERHAPS NAZI GERMANY (NAZISM WAS A JEW CONTROLLED MOVEMENT, JUST LIKE COMMUNISM, MARXISM, MODERN FEMINISM, NEO-NAZISM, AND OTHER BULLSHIT IDEOLOGIES). WE SHOULD BE MAKING NOISE ABOUT CHRISTOPHER BOLLYN'S DISAPPEARANCE!!!
ROWAN BERKELEY, HOW DO YOU KNOW CHRIS BOLLYN IS SAYING IT? OR WHETHER HE IS SAYING IT UNDER SOME SORT OF TORTURE? OR BLACKMAIL? OR BRIBE? OR OTHER FORMS OF PSYCHOLOGICAL MANIPULATION?
so far rowan has posted on this site, he has found ways to rationalize the historical and contemporary criminality of Jewish behaviour - he'd make a great Zionist PR man.
Makhtub, Salman, Makhtub.
na'am, xenophile, u're right.
the fact is that an ethics system provides an anchorage, rules of the game, a set of axioms that govern the development of ideas
lobro | 08.20.07 - 11:22 am | #
very true so, as you´re always saying, we´ve first got to blame ourself for letting us to be deceived. And we could´nt talk anymore and understand the meaning of terms without a common "set of axioms". therefore we should not dispose of our good medieval traditions. Much has gone wrong in history but to blame it on God is very convenient. Rather on our incompletness. In the parable by Lucas 8,12, the sower, some seeds, that is words of truth, fall on good earth and grow, some fall on the road, then the devil comes by and takes the words from their heart, so that they don´t understand. Of course there is the deceivers but we are the deceived. Also Jews are deceived into believing to be chosen, more clever and to have been given gold and power and the right to use double standards. Sofar they really get employed by the devil, as he/it is defined in the temptation of Jesus with: to obtain the power over the world.
The Christian religion teaches us to be humble as also medieval kings were humble before God. The same all through Islam: humbleness. And both monotheisms develloped an immense diversity and complexity. Once to mention the good sides.
Something else is changing in modern time, the rule of money and materialism, presumption. And that is not the fault of the middle ages.
Thanks for the alliterative quote,Xenophile, worthy of AA Watts.
Glad you enjoyed, Smekhovo.
The fact that you met a whole community full of nice tibetans doesn't really have much bearing on my suggestion, which deals with their cosmology.
My favourite book on this subject, one which is hard to get but predates the current sentimentalisation of tibetan religion, is "Oracles and Demons of ancient Tibet" by Rene De Nebesky- Wojkowitz, which is hard to find but massively weird:
http://valuebuy.com.au/productin...ct_id=41&
frd2=1
Check out my Antiwar Basement Video. I think Xymphora will approve. Here is the link;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8...h?v=8zE4-
T2sc5Q
Her are the lyrics;
THE PHANTOM CAPTAIN
This is our country and our fathers made it free
But we are rarely heard or seen
Foreign favorites seem to steer our country’s coarse
Risking our own security
They kept us busy, just trying to survive
Working hard to make ends meet
We paid no mind to things like Palestine
And the injustice that it reeks
The enemies are among us
Or so they say, the cells are nearly everywhere
Religious fanatics, always ready to fight
The Phantom Captain leads us there
We watch the car bombs and the gore on TV
The patsy always is the same
Mercenary death squads and spooks behind the scenes
Deception always is the game
The old ones warned us about foreign friends
Washington told us long ago
And Ike saw the industry of military might
He warned us it was going to grow
The enemies are among us
Or so they say, the cells are nearly everywhere
Religious fanatics, always ready to fight
The Phantom Captain leads us there
Our complicit Congress ignores the peoples will
They feign withdrawal to appease
We imitate our favorites and occupy their lands
And set ablaze the Middle East
And if the Captain tries to take us to war
Let him not do it in our name
We will take his ship from him and sail home to peaceful shores
Tend to our country once again
The enemies are among us
Or so they say, the cells are nearly everywhere
Religious fanatics, always ready to fight
The Phantom Captain leads us there
Fritz and Lobro,
I have held off, recently, from criticizing the many anti-Religious sentiments on this blog in the last few weeks.
Religion:"To hold, therefore, that there is no difference in matters of religion between forms that are unlike each other, and even contrary to each other, most clearly leads in the end to the rejection of all religion in both theory and practice. And this is the same thing as atheism, however it may differ from it in name." [Pope Leo XIII, Immortale Dei, 1885].
Man has been created Homo Fidens (believing man), and he cannot create at will to be a believing being. Atheism thus testifies negatively to the fact that by divorcing himself from God, man renders himself powerless to live a human life. In an essay on Kafka, Ionesco says that "when man is cut off from his religious or metaphysical roots, he is lost, all his struggles become senseless, futile and oppressive".
This is what happens when the beloved abandons the spritual/metaphysical lover, it is he who abdicates the active equation of mans most profound human relationship.
It is this social atheist-suicide equation that makes social, and figurative suicide, primarily a religious problem. After all, faith, love, life, and alienation are first and foremost religious categories. Thus, the instant index of the suicde-prone individual/society is the diminished capacity for human relationships.
It is faith, and only faith that sustains us from the despair of mere contingency as well as the destructive illusion of sheer transcendence, so that neither contingency nor transcendence has any fascination of a kind that that could breed in us a reluctance to accept our humanity fully. Faith places the center of gravity in the "other." Through faith in Jesus Christ, the God-Man, contingency coincides with transcendence, for as St. Paul tells us, "Before anything was created, He existed and he holds all things in unity." In the understanding of Jesus Christ alone, the meridian of life is attained. Consumed by the love of Jesus Christ, man regains all the creative potentialities of his being. In Hexaemeron, St. Bonaventure writes: "It is this profound center that salvation lies, for he who draws away from the center of his being is lost."
The Talmud is pervasive in the Judeo-Torah Protestant undercurrent of the "sick man" of the Western world. Remember "existentialism" was a movement that began with the Judeo-Protestant community and also the reappearance and acceptance of usury. Indulgences originated in what is now (reformed) Protestant Northern Europe but not in the Catholic Southern countries.
It has infested the whole Western World with a "idealistic Fascism"
that has vacillated suicide on a national scale.
The only remaining jewish cultural weapon is the appeal to the 'other major religions'.
"CultOracles and Demons of Tibet: The Cult and Iconography of the Tibetan Protective Deities"
Rene De Nebesky-Wojkowitz; Hardcover; -- reissued, but note the mis-spelled title
Tiger Eye, I enjoy reading your comments, and can culturally relate to many aspects of your catholic point of view.
But, as legitimate as any point of view should be regarded, there is something that bring you and Godsend to a same league, and separate you both irreconcilably from me; it is called dogmatic absolutism.
Inherited belief in revealed truth may provide you with some answers as to in-group ethics and existential meaning, but it leaves at a loss for operating outside the group's cultural boundaries. Claiming universal validity to ones beliefs is an immense leap of faith, an arrogance that precludes you from a holistic view of humanity and, therefore, from developing true consciousness.
The multilogical complexity of the world can only be approached with the intellectual humility required for multilogical thinking. We can only co-exist, co-operate and realize men's higher existential potential if we can communicate in good-faith and reason together. Reason is the keyword here, not rationalization. I believe in reason, clarity and logic , and I have no dogmatic pre-conditions to accept anyone's humanity.
And now my personal take: as a rule, religion sells you salvation in the netherworld while making a hell of this one.
Xenophile,
You might have written your last sentence first and saved yourself the secular homily on "reason."
I'm reminded of the beginning of the film The Adventures of Baron Muchausen where in the opening scene there's a beautiful summer view of the Mediterranean Sea while in the foreground butterfly's gently hover over wild flowers. As the camera moves right words appear on the screen announcing that the Age of Reason has arrived. Suddenly we hear cannon fire as the lens ends up on a battery of Turkish artillery that open's fire blasting the buildings of a walled city.
Your blog name somewhat interesting too.
Xenophile:
A person attracted to that which is "foreign," especially to foreign peoples, manners, or cultures.
Sort of reminds me of a man without that which he longs for.
And a man who is without that which he longs for will inevitably find it within himself, Tigs?
People who approach Christianity and Holy Scripture with reason (like many theologians and their students) CANNOT understand the spiritual content. That's what Christ meant when he kept saying "those that have eyes to see" and "those that have ears to hear". Spiritual knowledge is NOT obtained by reason - although reason is useful to explain both natural and spiritual things afterwards. "Amazing Grace" explains how this works - by a miracle of God (His direct intervention, called Grace).
There is a wonderful anonymous quote: "Man is a spiritual being having a physical experience, not a physical being having a spiritual experience".
It is our spirit (received from God) which makes us immortal, while we all know that our physical bodies are mortal. While our bodies age, our spirit is eternally youthful - but it matures (attaining to the full measure and stature of Christ).
That's the way God designed us, no matter how strenuously some protest.
For example, does this sentence make any sense from a 'natural' reason perspective: "When I am weak, then I am strong"? How about "I and the Father are One"? When God says "My thoughts are higher than your thoughts", what He means is that we can't understand God's thoughts unless He gives us spiritual understanding.
The sacrifice of 'Self' (independence, self-sufficiency) is usually necessary before spiritual awakening can take place.
How can a 'rational' man get there? (to God and spiritual things).
If we're lucky, God takes us down a road where we learn that our intellect, self-sufficiency and control over our circumstances is vanity. He confronts us with our helplessness and insignificance - unless and until we are 'connected' to Him through understanding spiritual matters! Only then does a full understanding of God's Creation become possible (including the 'natural' world). Reason becomes an afterthought.
Tibetans seem to have inserted a pantheon of demons and gods, also the whole of shamanism into Buddhism, as Catholic priests go to it´s meditation and nuns to classes of martial art in Sri Lanka.
Also to agree with Tiger Eye, that the modern art of mixing all beliefs only dilutes them to relativity and lost meanings. Admiring how you instead go to the essence. And to add a worldly term: `we` all defend and boast about a false "I", that is to be fed with material wealth, theft and lies. Therefore the ten commandments of Moses already confine these tendencies, as in other religions, not only to give society a basis, but to indulge in lies and usury hinders devellopment of consciousness.
So to understand lobro´s point.
And the Talmud is collected arguments to get around the ten Mosaic commandments and to justify double standards for the chosen.
Tiger Eye of course you go further. Reason only and commandments dont works, people go around them. (Here the Jews were most clever). And some people may think Jesus is the great shaman by resurrection, like Odin. How otherwise have South Americans become good Catholics. And humans by nature strive for to expand awareness and perception if they are not cofined by indulging in ´sins´.
I would never dream of putting Tiger Eye in the same category as the spammer; he impresses me as a generous and honest person. And I think he is right to stress the responsibility of protestantism in perpetuating the absurd and pernicious myth of the "Bible Jew".
Tiger Eye, the puerile innuendo of your remark about my blogname is beneath your dignity, and proves that it is easier for me to reconstruct your train of thought than it is for you to consider unemotionally alternative points of view.
I have no intention to insult you, and if the pre-condition for communicating with you is submitting to your religious system, well, I'd rather pass the buck.
Keep on posting though. Despite Catholicism/Christianity being for me an intellectually insatisfactory basis for ethical conduct since the age of 13, true xenophiles like myself operate under Namaste rules, that is, "I honor the Spirit in you which is also honor in myself"; no metaphysics necessary, just civil rationality golden rule-style.
Open Letter to Eric Hufschmid about Spreading False News and Baseless Accusations
Christopher Bollyn, RumorMillNews.com, 21 Aug 2007
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi...cgi?
read=108221
check it out
Godsend, if sometimes dogmatism is deplored, it´s only the terms, the terminology, that seems too old, too religiouse fore some. Civilisation and entertainment in modern times are are really delusions, by the blind for the blind made to deceive humans on their natural ways into the unknown. And standing before the immense infinity we can only become humble.
Fritz:
Spiritual knowledge and authority (like Christ's) is often mistaken for dogmatism or arrogance by those who have no spiritual understanding or personal, experiential frame of reference. Humility (before God, not man) is the door to spiritual understanding. Humility is not 'natural' in man - it has to be taught to him in one or more (painful) lessons. The greater the intellect (or reason) and self-sufficiency, the greater the pain of the humility lesson(s). Unless you've been through it, you can't understand it. I've been through it. "Amazing Grace" tells the story. The torturous path into the Light invariably leads through one or more dark and deep valleys! - physical, emotional and spiritual THEN, when you're at your wit's end, the Light (and spiritual understanding) breaks through - Thank God!
People could study, memorize and recite the entire Bible and not understand one iota of its spiritual meaning. You have to live it, and then God, through His Grace, will help you to understand it.
If you're a spiritual man or woman, words that T. Austin-Sparks wrote are full of deep meaning and power. If you don't speak the 'language' of spirituality, it will be 'Greek' to you (mean nothing).
My impatience to jump into the battle precludes me from properly organizing my ideas on the subject, but please bear with me Tigs.
I am not anti religious and certainly not anti-spiritual.
However, I reject the claim that Catholic perception is the only valid one.
It is like saying that English is the only language, everything else is gibberish.
Using the quote by St. Boniface that you provided ("It is [in] this profound center that salvation lies, for he who draws away from the center of his being is lost."), you must accept at least the possibility of different folks, different centres.
And not only that, were you born with an unshakable conviction of where your centre is?
I will wager that you arrived at it by an arduous route that took up most of your lifetime.
So just because someone may not have arrived there yet is no cause for contempt.
Freedom of religion implies freedom from religion in my view, and just because I may not feel too strongly about the religion of my parents (catholicism) doesn't mean that I mock your faith.
It is just that I don't want mine to be an automatic inheritance.
I fancy myself as the type of person who, were he born jewish would not fall prey to that baleful, perverted ethical system.
Rowan, I know next to nothing about Tibetan cosmology and a tad more about Buddhism and recognize that the two are separate.
However, there seems to be recognition of some level that these colorful demons and blood dripping deities are simply product of a "cultural mind" and otherwise entirely illusory.
At least that is what CG Jung seems to be saying in his foreword to Evans' translation of the Tibetan Book of the Dead.
One of the first injunctions chanted to the frightened spirit of the departed, hovering near his home and hearth is not to pay attention to the clash and din and eerie apparitions as they are entirely the product of his mind and therefore to be ignored and banished as illusions.
I must say that chancing upon this book in Grade 13 back in 68 had a profound influence on me, not that I ever read it in its entirety (not that my record with all the other books is any more honorable).
It influenced my decision to skip several years of university, to travel and start the search for that centre.
Still looking, maybe further away than ever.
Apologies for misquote: St Bonaventure, not Boniface
Bollyn is probably dead. Zionists are running this country and these military adventures. Only Israel benefits from these endless Middle East wars. Iraq is the beginning. As we commit war-crimes in Baghdad, the US gov't commits treason at home by opening mail, eliminating habeas corpus, using the judiciary to steal private lands, banning books like "America Deceived" from Amazon and Wikipedia, conducting warrantless wiretaps and engaging in illegal wars on behalf of AIPAC's 'money-men'. Soon, another US false-flag operation will occur (sinking of an Aircraft Carrier by Mossad) and the US will invade Iran.. Then we'll invade Syria, then Saudi Arabia, then Lebanon (again) then ....
Final link (before Google Books bends to gov't demands and censors the title):
America Deceived (book)
Frank Trenton II:
That's a good start!
For the rest of The Puzzle, SEE! my Homepage.
Good start but the end is fishy.
How come America Deceived fails to mention anything relating to Israel, Zionism or Talmud and their crimes against humanity?
The notion of it about to be banned is as old as the book itself, 2-3 years and is just a marketing hype.
The storyline is entirely fictional about some nasty gov't men and evil aides in Karl Rove's mold, lots of corruption, violence and sex, so pornographic that i suspect Scooter Libby wrote it to help finance his legal defense.
So if the History Channel is part of the 9/11 'Official' Conspiracy and Cover-up, how devastating, do you suppose, they think it will be when the Truth finally comes out?! Are they afraid that the REAL Holocaust will start? Is there any other explanation that's credible?
Does it now seem inevitable that there MUST BE a 9/11-II, an attack on Iran and Armageddon?!
How desperate, insane and evil are these Zionists???
It's time to send the 9/11 Truth Movement into high gear!
part of ensuring that the REAL holocaust does not ever happen is to openly debunk the FAKE one.
It seems ESSENTIAL now for world Jewry to get their act together and RESIST and RENOUNCE Zionism and Zionists. It may be a question of survival!
There is no question that Zionism is the REAL and WORST enemy of the Jews!
Fritz is the only person who understood my comments.
Rowan, welcome back.
Did you ever get that monkey off your back? Try hanging on a door while bringing your legs up in a kneeling position and bounce (using your own weight) a few times then stand up and reach up as though your reaching for the ceiling. It's a poor man's form of traction that aligns the back and legs. It does work.
There is no point in berating the Jews if at our core we draw from the same well. It seems hypocritical to me.
Xenophile I think you're spot on.
Sorry, Anon is me
Tiger Eye is your last post and example of your spirituality? I wish I could say it was clever because I'm sure you tried.
Ken Hoop | 08.20.07 - 3:20 pm | I actually meant what I said Ken. If something is proceeding as planned, I'd call that order.
Tigs, i understand full well that you are not proselytizing but you must also understand that neither am I in any way antagonistic to the ineffable notion of ... whatever, Self, Grace and so on.
There can be no doubt that some Catholic thinkers have hit the nail on the head, just as there can be no doubt that some are nowadays out of it, with fulsome praise for Talmud (as if they ever bothered to read it) and its mythology.
The whole issue reminds me of shoppers in a supermarket, some know exactly what they want and grab it off the shelves and some are lost, looking at labels indecisively.
Then of course, there are those who grow their own on a small private acreage.
The globalists want us all fed and provided for in one giant chicken coop, for the same reasons that chickens are raised that way.
Here's to diversity and privacy and freedom of choice.
As Krishna said to the millions of Brahmas who came to pay their respects, "do not be afraid of the demons." (Tibetan or otherwise)
That goes for you too, Tiger Eye.
maybe because I was at a baptism of a child on saturday, Tiger Eye, invited by neighbors in a Catholic church, a very friendly moment.
Must be a 911-2?
.. hope not, though no one likes this powerplay, but the Russians just made some sort of alliance with China and the Asiatic countries and with Iran. Also military maneuver and the strategic bombers fly on patrol.
http://www.en.rian.ru/analysis/2...7/
72171635.html
MOSCOW. (RIA Novosti) - The Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO) has held its seventh summit in Bishkek, the capital of Kyrgyzstan. The SCO is a regional group comprising Russia, China, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, with Iran, India, Pakistan and Mongolia as observers.
Two of the eight key documents adopted at the Bishkek summit - the Treaty of Friendship and Cooperation, and the Bishkek Declaration - indicate the high degree of cooperation between the member states. Both documents incorporate a crucial principle, which keeps the organization together - the principle of equality and respect for partners and their interests...
Most importantly, they have common security, as "attempts to address global and regional problems single-handed cannot succeed," Russian President Vladimir Putin said at the SCO summit.
The summit in Bishkek spotlighted security threats coming from Afghanistan following the unsuccessful military operation of the United States and NATO. The SCO countries will have to address these problems now jointly with the authorities of Afghanistan and Pakistan, whose representatives attended the summit.
Although some people argue that the SCO was set up as a counterweight to U.S. influence in Central Asia, it never posed as such. The United States is cooperating with nearly all of the SCO members, and this does not worry anyone.
By a glimpse to Chris Bollyn´s latest statements, (link by Rowan above, really interesting),
http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi...cgi?
read=108221
he seems well and reasonable, and DBS is spreading rumors about him and Prof. Steven Jones, like he has before accused everyone to be crypto -zionits, DBS behaving now shabby towards C.Bollyn, (if one knew what is played). Prof.Jones can be true with the theory, the steel columns were molten with termite. Then the case is solved.
If I said, "a Jewish fingernail is not worth one million Arabs.", does that make me antisemitic?
smekovo,
Just discovered your comment above. Thank you.
ME,
"There is no point in berating the Jews if at our core we draw from the same well. It seems hypocritical to me."
They have historically poisoned the well that common humanity drinks from.
Where have you been these many months oh forgetful one? Relativism is Talmudic! You were raised a Protestant. No?
'relativism' is just a cant term.
Saying that would get you housed at public expense in much of Europe, lobro.
part of ensuring that the REAL holocaust does not ever happen is to openly debunk the FAKE one
Taking the real holocaust to be the Palestinian one, I should say it is already happening.
"Soggy" relativism as in all things being equal and therefore unapproachable when used to support an amoral statement as an acceptable moral opinion.
This is typtical of a "dualistic" mindset.
I meant typical.
Now that we're all on a "Is DBS nuts?" theme, in a recent chat with Steven St John, he launched forth on a tirade against Ron Paul as a stooge of the Rothschilds.
While much of Ron Paul's attraction is a very American conversation on the topic of libertarianism, for the rest of the world it's his principled anti-war stand that appeals.
I can't imagine that DBS finds any of the other US presidental hopefuls, almost all of whom are AIPAC-endorsed, any better. So what does DBS hope to achieve by his rants against Ron Paul?
DBS is determined to find nothing redeeming in a vast array of courageous individuals. One may suggest that DBS is an ADL plant, judging by his expressed opinions. He certainly carries their water for them.
I regard the entire Mises.org crowd as being almost as bad as Ayn Rand. I suppose I blame Murray Rothbard (aka Hagbard Celine).
I never like this crew from the beginning, DBS, Eric Hufschmid, et all, they seemed fishy, too emotional. The only reason I can think of to talk about them at all is to point them out as examples of psych war on the internet. They keeps us "loonies" busy by fanning our anger. Much of what they say is true, but then it would have to be for them to be effective. So although they are not a total waste of time...it could probably be better spent
righteo,
Come to think of it, I don't believe that DBS has ever endorse any national candidate. It is odd that he hasn't. Paul's approach to 9-11 and the non-justification behind the Iraqi war is understandable, otherwise he could simply be dismissed as just another denier and conspiracy nut. He's keeping it a Constitutional isusse. It would take the wind out of his sail by having him pigeonholed when he is really running against the primary issues behind those events.
Mises took his ideas from the Austrian school of economic. I'm sure he put his spin on it to make it his "own" and we should all applaud his genius. Ditto to Rothbard, the groupie
Not "termite" like myself tipped above,.. One fingernail with traces of thermite on it.. likely with DBS it is usual (un-) professional envy, inflated. Has not Chris Bollyn acheived more than DBS, as also D.Irving, all personally attacked and damaged and DBS sees only himself in the mirror (if not also ADL). .only speculating. But here was again Torin Wolf, demolition expert, supporting Prof Steven Jones: several forms of Thermite
The same chemical composition found in the previously molten metal microspheres found in the WTC dust, discovered by professor Steven Jones. “The WTC 'microsphere' samples showed the presence of aluminum (Al), magnesium (Mg), manganese (Mn), potassium (K), copper (Cu), and sulphur (S)..
http://www.prisonplanet.com/
arti...10707expert.htm
(just to mention this again)
The REAL Holocaust hasn't happened yet!
Ron Paul of course is very well on the path of constitution, better then in in conspiracy jungles, agree. Hagbard Celine to me sounds like from RAWilson? These were times, when we believed conspiracy is only in some science fiction books.
I never read/heard DBS but I did hear Hufschmid and he made all kinds of sense in a high pitched sort of way.
I always considered the arguments about detailed contents of the so far impenetrable 9-11 black box ludicrous, especially when it got down to personal invective among researchers/"researchers".
I am certain that most of it is work of trolls and provocators dedicated to marginalizing the truth movement.
I accept only that a mass of circumstantial evidence points to the high cabal of neocons, most of them of talmudic persuasion as the most likely culprits and go no further regarding the mechanics of how it was done.
The next step is a full public, impartial inquiry where no curtains remain closed due to "national security" issues.
Whose national security?
And if our national security suffers as the result of truth made manifest, it was the wrong national security to start with.
As long as there is infighting in 9-11 truth movement, we are just bulls in a Zionist corrida.
Are DBS and his likes picadores?
That's right, Fritz - Hagbard Celine was the hero of "Illuminatus," itself a product of Aleister Crowley's texts being cross-fertilised, if that is the right word, with the droppings of The Playboy Philosophy.
lobro:
The next step is a full public, impartial inquiry where no curtains remain closed due to "national security" issues.
We will SEE! Armageddon before we SEE! what you describe as 'next step'
Tigs - I agree with you that Ron Paul's best strategy re: 9/11 is what he is doing - mention it in the context of imperial US foreign policy, as when he confronted Gudy Riuliani on the topic. Anything more specific would draw down the alienating "conspiracy theorist" riposte.
I find RP's campaign quite exhilarating, as do millions of others around the world. He is a breath of fresh air, especially his antiwar stance.
What will be fascinating to watch is how he fares the next 15 months. Right now he is becoming known to denizens of the internet world. In the final run to the primaries and to the elections his name and appeal will need to reach millions of people who do not take much interest in elections, and this is where the big-budget names would expect to pick up most of their votes.
On the other hand pro-war candidates disgust a majority of US voters, it seems. Perhaps a third party anti-war team, say Paul-Kucinich, would sweep the election leaving the dems & reps in the dust.
This is so going to be fun to watch.
Please just explain what you are getting at. Why do you associate Rothbard with Celine? I can't find anywhere where Rothbard wrote fiction.
i just think the name hagbard is derived from rothbard - and the idea of a libertarian economist as hero would have appealed to The Playboy Philosophers.
personally i am opposed to all of them, since I do not own large gold stocks, so their theories would not benefit me in any way, but quite the contrary would make me the slave of those that do.
Oh, OK I see. I thought I was missing something and I hate feeling stupid. Being stupid is one thing (because of course if you are you don't know it), but feeling stupid is soooo uncomfortable
Paul-Kucinich, would sweep the election leaving the dems & reps in the dust.
Demrep is one party anyway, the party of Saban/Rahm maggots.
Paul-Gravel-Kuchinich Axis Of Truth would devastate the Talmud empire.
There are enough folks with backbones who would gladly contribute to such administration: Jim Webb, Ralph Nader, Cynthia McKinney (a worthy replacement for Condo-sleeza), Pat Buchanan, Charles Rangel, even Ted Kennedy may be a truthie-in-hiding.
Maybe George Voinovich qualifies in some way too, but now we are scraping the bottom of the barrel, most of the rest are cheap sellouts of their people.
Note that the above list is pretty balanced in terms of current nominal affiliation.
Yes, finding a team to fill an Administration would be quite a challenge. Presumably RP has a rolodex of names to call on.
He'd do well to contact us, I guess.
It would be fun to try and match posters with appropriate cabinet positions.
Rowan - I should think it would take more than one 4-year term to change the US Federal Reserve System, if ever. Also I don't really think that a fully gold-backed dollar can possibly work, for a host of reasons.
I don't know Ron Paul's philosophy on Corporations having the same legal rights as natural persons; but I could be persuaded that this is one of the roots of all modern evil.
It's his anti-war position that everyone understands; the libertarian stuff is all a bit rarified to most, and maybe mostly impracticable in a real world sense.
ho ho lobro, do keyboard warriors & poets make cabinet material?
RP's first task will be to require AIPAC to register as the agent of a foreign entity, and get the feck out of domestic US politics.
Next task would be to charge ADL as an unconstitutional organisation and have it disbanded.
Third would be to disqualify all dual nationality persons from holding positions of trust in the US Government.
Meanwhile the Sec Def would be drawing up plans for prompt withdrawal from Iraq & Afghanistan. Guantanamo Bay would be returned to Cuba after the inmates have been repatriated to their homelands with huge apologies & recompense for their distress.
The Bill of Rights would be publicly proclaimed again as the Basic Law of the Land.
The first 100 hours will be tremendous to behold.
I try to avoid dreams like this, waking up is too painful.
Godsend, if you're still there, I saw your comments on the Truthdig site re Gaza starving. You certainly held your own against Lefty and that other Zionist troll. I don't always agree with what you post, but I must say I was proud of you, m'dear boy.
Lobro, alright, I give in; who or what is DBS? No, I honestly don't know. Please tell.
sweetoldlady: I love you, too!
Those Zionists and Zionist shills on Truthdig (LILPIG, PIGLEE, LEFTYPIG, etc.) are just made-to-order for bacon drippings from my lightning-fast swishing of God's terrible, swift sword - His Word.
Now, if you have the time to witness a veritable SS (Swine Slaughter), visit Skeptical Community ('Banter' and 'Puzzles & Games' topics) and you will SEE! the real BIGEE! You must be over 18 to go there. Are you over 18? Actually, it helps to be at least 65 - it's the grossest Blog I ever visited. You might SEE! the ghost and other remains of BIGPIG there - the most vile grunter I've ever met (spoke Greek, though)
DBS = Daryl Bradford Smith, who with Eric Hufschmid runs a website of extraordinarily uneven quality.
http://www.iamthewitness.com/
You take the good bits and moan about the bad bits.
I guess I would make a good economy sec (is there such a thing?), since i know nothing about it, given that all the great experts failed so miserably to protect and nourish basic US economy.
Flattening out the distribution curve of equity inequality (inequity, for short) would be a start.
And I couldn't accomplish that without also being defense sec.
As for secretary of poetry (the most important post of all, seriously), the nod obviously goes to 5 dancing shlomos (at least we can say that there are now 5 joos in the cabinet) with Grettir as undersec.
Their first task would be to put MSM liars out of business.
MT, Righteo. I've got that site in my 'Blogpost' folder. Now you've made me want to visit it again.
Godsend, I think I'll give THAT site a miss!
Damn, I thought Sweetie was talking about Me. There goes my dinner conversation.
Ignore my last post. I miss read.
You are a wisesweetoldlady!
Ken Hoop | 08.20.07 - 3:20 pm
Did you predict, in 2002,that in 2007 America would be bogged down in a hopeless war in iraq? If not, shut up.
righteo | 08.22.07 - 8:53 am
or a Maenichean, of the sophomoric strain.
Tiger Eye | 08.22.07 - 8:38 am
You except conservative strains of Lutheranism of course.
Rowan
Objectivists are pro-Israel and pro-war, want it fought more ruthlessly.
Libertarians are generally anti-war.
About DBS & EH--
"Much of what they say is true, but then it would have to be for them to be effective."
"Much" could mean 40%. I give
a researcher a 10% error slack.
If nine of ten assertions are true,
a gentle nudge on the tenth is due.
DBS and EH get nowhere near that
level of truth.
Tiger Eye | 08.22.07 - 9:25 am
is this the Catholic in you, or the true believer?
Paul is by the way -an honest Lutheran and an honest blowbacker.
Does Rowan have any opinions on the economist Wilhelm Ropke?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ord.../
Ordoliberalism
somewhat better than Mises' economics.
righteo,
As I have said, perhaps a few times, I have a problem with Libertarians. But I think Ron Paul is an old schooled republican and perhaps doesn't seem to be one of the yup types.
Their is something simply decent about the man. He is also one of the few Vietnam combat veterans on the list of candidates and a doctor.
He also quit politics some years ago but returned when people in his district begged him to represent them in the Congress. By today's standards he's refreshing and believable.
I hope he doesn't end up in a bipartisan accident like
Wellstone.
Koop,
"is this the Catholic in you, or the true believer?
Paul is by the way -an honest Lutheran and an honest blowbacker."
Nothing good comes out of Nazareth or Texas.
Ken Hoop | 08.22.07 - 7:06 pm - fair enough, I didn't want to upset the folks too much.
I may not know what it is but I know how to spell it: Manichaean.
Proof that ignorance is bliss.
okay, unless bollyn comes on iamthewitness.com and LITERALLY says he is physically fine - I will not believe it. After all, that is how the zionist jews beat out false "confessions" outta "suicide bombers" in occupied palestine. You don't think it would be just as easy with C Bollyn?
Anyone like Ropke what says (according to wikipedia) that the state should do x,y, and z, is being disingenuous, since the state has made it quite clear it has no intention of doing anything of the sort.
Hard money men, as the misesians used to be known, believe that if you just make every currency except gold or directly gold-backed currency illegal, gold will rise in value until it is worth precisely as much as all the commodities in the world that need exchanging.
Nice, as I said, if you happen to own the gold to begin with.
That has a voodoo economics sound to it. If there is an expanding real economy (goods & services) and if it is all expressed in terms of gold (whose production is low) then the price of gold inflates, does it not? One oz. of gold will buy not just one good suit of clothes, but two plus a bottle of champers and a picnic hamper. Defeats the purpose?
At least with the USD being de facto backed by the price of oil in the good old days, its value is/was linked realistically to the real economy. Call it the black gold parallel market for $$$.
The only function of gold backed currency is to keep the politicians & bankers honest. That is a major virtue. But it might be a case of the cure being as bad as the disease, when seen from another point of view.
there is no real reason why gold should be the benchmark or why any one good should be the benchmark (unless you happen to be involved with the gold cartel).
if you want something to rate a currency against, make a basket of commodities, giving especial attention to the commodities the country whose currency it is actually produces!
Yes, and probably most of the world's currencies are valued on the basket basis.
It's the USD that claims to be the world's reserve currency, a status that it inherited from Bretton Woods post-WWII and linked to gold. When Nixon-Kissinger defaulted on the gold they soon came up with the oil trading solely in USD as the backing for the USD.
As that is now sliding away, the USD is losing its prestige, and with it much of the imperial privilege that allowed to the USA to tax the world via USD inflation.
I don't know what a world without USD hegemony will look like, and one wonders how the US libertarians propose adjusting to the emerging new realities.
The US dollar is back by US Treasury Bills, IOUs. Most of the worlds currencies are based on the dollar (I'm reluctant to say all because I'm not sure) that's what USD hegemony means. Go to the Federal Reserve website and notice what they don't tell you.
The basket is a good idea but it still requires governments to be honest because production can always be manipulated and cartels can always be created. OPEC in the 1970's. War has been the usual way countries have gotten themselves out of these jams.
Value is define only by what people are willing to pay/trade
I suppose the dollar is - or wants to be - oil-backed. In other words, it wants to ensure that the only (large) oil markets denominate the stuff in dollars, which means that oil buyers have to buy the dollars to buy the oil with.
"I feel so weak I can hardly stand up ... darling ... the dollar's collapsed" (burroughs)
It is inevitable that as petrodollar heads south, the USrael military machine heads to war, since the petrodollar is the main source of the banker nation's power, real and perceived.
Remove the oil linkage and the only thing supporting the dollar is the US economy, a will-o'-the-wisp, apart from strip mall tattoo parlors and bowling alleys that seem to be the most visible signs of economic life nowadays.
I think that all those trucks roaring up and down the thruways are Potemkin lullabies to the nation.
Now that i think of it (surely not an original insight but for a novice to the field like myself, a revelation), the electric car was killed as a sacrifice to the petrodollar.
Ditto for electric trains (how the European ones must have rankled the Fed barons), also the wind and solar power - sorry, wrong type of power, not our power.
But as the oil dries up in reality based world (anti-talmudist) and big sisters are licking the last few greasy rocks for sustenance, the last grains of sand will drip through the hourglass and it is hey Joo, whatcha gonna do?
They must have a plan, either total war or infiltration and takeover of fresh, healthy host: Russia-China.
No escaping that reality.
I guess Breton Woods is where the American Establishment entered into a suicide pact with Jews.
But when the hour finally comes, it will be: "You drink from the poisoned chalice first", "No, you do".
anyone for koolaid?
I think the US cares about oil because we use sooo much of it. Our lifestyle is based on it. I don't think our government gives a flying f*ck if the dollar is backed by anything, if it did it wouldn't continue to print money willy-nilly. The Feds just created something like 12 billion dollars (that number may even be higher I can't remember for sure and I'm too lazy to look it up)to infuse in to the mortgage fiasco. Nothing backs that money. Our economy has been shrinking for the last ten years, but you'll only hear it's growing in the MSM.
I think lobro is right about China & Russia. China certainly seems to be playing along.
If you really want to get down to it, our dollar is backed by our military. Hence the great love affair.
sorry . since undertanding nothing about, only manichean thinking or is it digitally: it´s there or not there, I must cite others, greater thinkers:
Hitler's Monetary System
By Dick Eastman 8-18-7
http://www.rense.com/general77/H.../
Hitlersmm.html
Comment
Fantastic! This is the flip side of the criminally usurious Jewish monetary system... WORK IS MONEY!
Hitler's Monetary System
By Megumi Yamanaka 7-14-7
But imagine what would happen if dollar sank to the level of peso, because it was no longer backed by oil.
Does the military apparatus get paid in pesos? How many of its components are manufactured outside the country, Taiwan, Canada, China? It consumes vast quantities of fuel - which is no longer hogtied to dollar and it is is $25/gallon ... how far will the mighty machine rumble on an empty tank?
My whole point, thanks for the offer of koolaid Rowan, is that so long as Japan or China must pay for oil, whatever its origin, in dollars, the buck is supported by that oil, floating on it, so to speak.
It cannot be worth less than its oil counterweight.
Who cares if USA doesn't produce a damn thing that China cannot, better and cheaper in order to rebalance its insane trade deficit, if China is forced to buy its vital oil in USD, which is printed guess where?
Once this link is broken, as Chavez and mullahs are attempting to do (prolly with Putin's backing), USA is entirely sidelined, a snake oil salesman unmasked.
Who wants their Chrysler shitboxes (95% of components manufactured in Guam or something) or GM'd crops (which are entirely dependent on huge petrochemical industry)?
Meanwhile, the entire US manufacturing base has been sold down the river, ensuring that people have no fallback, they must support Cheney's march to destruction in the name of "American values".
See the poisoned chalice now?
the above article of rense is almost all from some "spartacud schoolnet" rather suspicious regarding objectivity! only this part from Megumi Yamanaka seems interesting
http://rense.com/general77/hitn.htm
as cited in (righteo´s discovery) only H.Makow is somewhat suspicious
http://www.webofdebt.com/article...upt-
germany.php
sorry it´s difficult with the money
here is Rothbard if someone did´nt know who this is! (like myself)
http://www.lewrockwell.com/
rothb...othbard163.html
Sorry, lobro I didn't make myself very clear. Wars make rich people richer. The military and other government make work programs are a ways for the few to pick the pockets of the many through taxes. The US military ensures the US people pay their taxes. Our military can be used to rob other countries of their assets but it's much easier to rob your own.
You are also right in that buying oil in dollars helps support the dollar but it is in no way the main support. What really supports the US dollar is other countries buying our gov. debt securities. Buying our debt backed with the IOU that the US government will taxes its' people to pay back the debt. What happens when they stop buying debt? They go through withdraw as well because who is going to buy their product in the vast quantities that we do. Canada isn't, India isn't (they would like China to buy their stuff) Europe isn't...so the Chinese and other debt holder are concerned about their economies as well. Just one of the beauties of globalizaton.
Fritz, work/production is the honest way to go.
I had the same reaction as you Fritz. When I first started reading the site I though hummmmm this is a bit fishy until I got down to the comment Work is money and I thought, this is good.
Anything at all makes rich richer.
Katerina was a giant boon to the rich, because it hoovered money by way of taxes and spread it around fake consultants and contractors.
Just consider the well known gigantic scam of Chertoff's whereby his Homeland Security (just what is Chertoff's homeland?) handed a contract worth over 1/4 billion dollars to an Israeli (good friend of his mother, also an Israeli) cruise ship line to provide bunks for displaced NO people. Nothing came of that, the boats were parked in the neighborhood and eventually left and money disappeared without ever being taxed since the ships were registered in Panama. To add insult to injury, the contract stipulated an undisclosed amount to cover having to pay "taxes".
Chertoff is slaughtering sacrifices, praying for another Katerina.
If not, he'll call his rainmakers in Israel for help.
Stop dreaming, folks! - the handwriting is on the wall (IF you can read it)
We are coming to the End of the line - and Time.
There will be NO EXIT - IF you don't find the ONLY Door soon! Seek and you shall find; Knock and it will be opened; Ask and you will receive. Do not tarry!
Everything just SEEMS normal (sort of) - it isn't.
Humanity is now in uncharted waters and it's not gonna stop until 2012.
2012 is a bunch of bullshit. Just another year of life on this bone crunching, blood letting, dog eat dog planet. not only us human misfits but also Mother Nature, she who has killed or is gonna kill every last one of us, in due time.
It just seems like history is bound and determined to repeat it's self. The thing I like about this pagan concept is it gets rid of the idea of guilt and meekness. We could just identify the problem and get rid of it, we wouldn't have to wait for god's justice. We'd make our own bed and we'd lay in it.
Godsend, another concept of paganism is that time is not linear. There is no beginning and no end. That's kind of nice because may be then we have time to get it right.
Hp do you consider Hinduism pagan?
if we had the time to comprehend it, Me, and this frightens me really. This ´not linear time´, I think is really so, but day after day this idea is in the distance, for me at least. But in doubt, religion has to adjust to the real. If you would be so kind to mention where you´ve heard of this concept? Castaneda mentions the weel of time.
Sure Fritz, the book I read was call "On Being A Pagan" by Alain de Benoist. This is what it says on the back cover: "In this smal masterpiece, the great French thinker Alain de Benoist claims that only the pagan deities of ancient Europe offer a spiritual recourse to the present religious malaise. The guilt, the fear, the narrow petty-bourgeois obsession with well-being and the self-loathing love of the Other that has left Western man defenseless before the destructive behaviours of our nihilist age derive from the alien belief system that Christianity introduced to the West. They are not of the pagan spirit that lives still in the Rig Veda, the Iliaid or the Edda. Benoist helps us rediscover these ancient wellsprings and the fonts from which future greatnesses may again flow. But let the reader be warned, his ON Being A Pagan proposes no folkloric or New Age "return to the past", but rather a Nietzschean recurrence in which the future bears all the promise of our distant origins-and thus of another great beginning.
I thought the book was good but than I always do when I agree with one. Much of what I said in the past few days was from the book. I'm going to audit a class this fall on Nietzsche. I think I need to understand him.
Me, yes I think there are elements of paganism in Hinduism. How could there not be? Hinduism is a product of the eternal Vedas and since they contain the whole of the creation, both material and spiritual, paganism must be there.
Of course, since the arrival of the Mahaprabhu, (1486), virtually all the rituals, castes and levels of yoga, especially the impersonalist Brahma realization have been resigned as ephemeral logic.
Tell more, hp, who is Mahaprabhu, what did he do, turned Hinduism inside out or something?
I'd rather hear it straight up from you than go digging in some New Age bookshop.
It seems the more refined theology becomes, the further it strays from the fundamental, original message.
Lobro
I was but a mere reporter for the college paper circa 1973 when a guru gliding thru town on a lecture tour told me, the naif, the Hare Krishnas,
who had an office near campus, were practictioners of 14th century Hinduism.
The only remaining jewish cultural weapon is the appeal to the 'other major religions'.-RB
Is it possible that yahweh infected Hinduism then?
Me, if you wish to understand Nietzsche from an obscure, but in my view larger point of view not often shouted out loud in euro-centric circles, perhaps it would be of use to peruse the Manu smriti, which he praised as "close the bible and open the Manusmriti."
Again, of course, both the Manusmriti and Nietzsche are made irrelevant with the advent of the Mahaprabhu, Who pronounced all castes, rituals and any other barricades to Krishna (Christ) consciousness to be imaginary and unauthorized.
lobro, yes He did. The age old deal of giving the high handed their comeuppance, though it hurts so good.
Simply put, (the only way I know how), the Lord Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is God (Krishna) Himself incarnated as His own devotee to demonstrate a practical way for every human to connect with Godhead in a personal way. This is because He loves us completely and knows that in this age of Kali, the last and most difficult age to advance spiritually, it is virtually impossible to achieve this through the Vedic rituals and atmosphere of gurus being frauds, etc.
This is where the Mahamantra came from, the Hare Krishna mantra.
It is for everyone and it doesn't get no easier.
And obviously, He isn't going to twist your arm, it's up to you.
Hope that helped.
Me, as far as Hinduism being tainted by Jewish superstition, I think Schopenhauer, the magnificent thinker, says it well..
" The Indian air surrounds us, the original thoughts of kindred spirits....And O! how the mind is here washed clean of all its early ingrafted Jewish superstition! It is the most profitable and most elevating reading which is possible in the world."
And this as well...
"In India, our religions will never at any time take root; the ancient wisdom of the human race will not be supplanted by the events in Galilee. On the contrary, Indian wisdom flows back to Europe, and will produce a fundamental change in our knowledge and thought."
Actually Ken, 15th century..
Ken, here in 2007, are you still a naif?
Schopenhauer, the 'magnificent thinker' is long dead - and no longer thinking 'magnificent' thoughts! In fact, the Hindu gods aren't thinking any 'magnificent thoughts', either! They do not exist - and never existed - except in the 'magnificently thinking minds' of their creators - befuddled people. Same for Buddha and Buddhists, Tao and Taoists, athe and atheists, etc.
The 'Galileean', Son of Man and Son of God made a fool out of Schopenhauer! (and all other 'magnificent thinkers'). Today, there are MANY Followers of Christ in India - and everywhere else! Is there anyone else who raised the dead and was resurrected from the dead? Case closed. There is no time for BS religions anymore!
Thank you, Me, Benoist sounds so interesting, i´ll read this book soon, probably like a cornerstone in todays thinking. Not so shallow as the usual new age stuff. The ancient mythology is fascinating and a complex description of the view the ancients had of the world, and i.e. they knew volumes like the Ilias by heart, so that for us it´s next to hopeless to find all the aspects one myth (or deity) has in the web of myth´s.
Myself I have made a pause reading Robert von Ranke-Graves: Greek mythology, and the White godess, he may be a bit weird, knotting together everything, from Greece to Ireland, but inspired.
About this aspect of Christian believes, Benoist mentioned, I would agree, only thinking that Tiger Eye is more like the mystics, who had another understanding.
Here I´ve got but not yet read R.Safranski: Nietzsche, a biography of his thinking. "..especially figurative his thinking about the eternal return of the same, whith which Heidegger argued a lot. With the thought about the return, the dimension of time is obliterated, in that time is bend to a circle and that, though Nietzsche wanted to think out into time, tied to the ´becoming´ of Heraklit.. As Heidegger, also Nietzsche had let begin the occidental fate (disaster) with the alienation from the Dionysian sources of culture as with Platon and Socrates.."
This is a quite good bio, but too short without examples. And many thinkers today are more or less infested with the Frankfurt school, which is not an original thought. hope You`ve got something inspired about it. Philosophy is so theoretical, terms so abstract, that I´m trying to think more practical: the thing is, time is real, if it´s a weel there will eventually be a way to leave it. Is´nt that Yoga also was about, probably.
There you go again, telling God what He can and cannot do.
If yours is the only religion Godsend, the only truth, the only way, then count me out.
Your heart and mind is so full of fear of anything else than your tiny little Hebrew fairy tale stolen from the very ones who taught the world to talk and do math.
If you, with your intolerance, name calling, condemnation and vilification of anyone who disagrees with you, are an example of "amazing grace" and salvation, then we are truly screwed, blued and tattooed.
hp:
I'm going to break my self-imposed rule about communicating with you (from WAY back) and tell you just 1 more time:
You are not only blind - you are a fool and full of preconceived notions! It can't get much worse than that!
My faith in Jesus the Christ as the Son of God, Savior and God is not my 'religion'. It is a FACT! I experienced this FACT personally (many times) - it's not something I just learned in books! It is beyond your understanding - at least in your present state of mind and heart. Don't waste my time with your displays of ignorance.
Just, hp, came across a sentence in a book about: "The mystic dimensions of Islam" by Annemarie Schimmel about Sufis, that would interest you, (though I have´nt read yet about the things you write above, except Schopenhauer, but will look for.):
"Dara Shikoh (1615 - 1659), time of the Moguln in India; his main work was the translation of the Upanishads into Persian with the help of Indian scholars.. For him the Upanishads were the work, which is mentioned in the Koran as the ´hidden book´ (Sura 56/7
(the holy books of others),..
Dara-Shikoh´s translation, known as ´Sirr-i-Akbar´, the Greatest Mystery, was introduced in Europe by the French scholar Anquetil Duperron, who published 1801 a Latin translation: Oupnek´hat, it est secretum tegendum..
The German idealist philosophers were inspired by it´s content and have praised it´s eternal wisdon in exaltated words. In the whole 19.century the Upanishads stayed as one of the most holy books for some a German or other thinker influenced by the German Idealism..
In real mystic spirit Dara-Shikoh, who despised the muslim orthodoxy, could say:
"He who knows is like a lion, who only devours that what he himself has killed, not like the fox, who lives from the rests of the prey of others."
He was himself a prince also in Kashmere and Mogulleader and later eventually executed by a rival.
How do You know, Godsend, if the people in India, China and America before Christ are lost then; although here it´s the definition of time then again and terms like continents, space. Even in the OT there were many Gods, Jahwe one of them.
Fritz:
I never said they were 'lost'. Holy Scripture (NT) does not talk about the ultimate destiny of people who never heard the Gospel (before or after Christ's presence here) and thus were not able to make a decision about Christ. The same thing applies to people who die young and can't make a real decision about Christ. There are many details about the next Life which are not explained. God does not owe us an explanation! - and we are not entitled to make something up that we like (like ecumenists do). Read the section titled 'The Life' on my Homepage. It was written by an anonymous author and it covers this issue very well.
I'm not aware where the OT states that there are any gods but Yahweh - unless you mean that the statement "You shall have no other gods besides Me" implies that such gods exist. Satan is referred to as 'the god of this world' (NT) but that does not put him on the same 'footing' as God (that's, of course, where Lucifer wants and claims to be).
I hope that answers your concerns.
Yes, they´re not new questions, unanswerable ones. In the OT the other people and towns have other Gods, and the Hebrews are commanded not to follow them. That is what far above Winsome mentioned (just like you also said) Though one can translate: "they believed in other Gods". (I´ve looked for that term in the dictionary then)
Rowan, Judaism is Henotheistic; thou shall have no God before me. ..
Winsome | 08.20.07 - 4:05 am | #
Some nice, poetic truth up there, by hp and fritz.
Thanks both for insight into the likes of Mahaprabhu, Shopenhauer and Dara-Shikoh (love that saying about lion and the fox).
Indeed, it is aversion for unearned meat that keeps me from pursuing these topics in more depth. I will eat my own even though it be mere locusts.
And i absolutely agree with Shopenhauer's view of Indian air. It is true, every word of it and even all the Israelis on the beaches of Goa and Kerala cannot alter that magic.
Good to see you in full swing, hp.
Fritz:
As you can probably guess from my reply, I find the idea of another God (at the same level as Yahweh) incomprehensible. The Triune Godhead concept is complex enough. I can't imagine making sense of Hinduism with thousands of gods! Also, the idea of worshiping animals (Golden Calf, etc.) or totally imaginary gods (like Greek or Roman gods and their far-fetched relationships) never appealed to me. Philosophical discussions like these are FAR back in my life and have become just about meaningless. I'm really just into discovering the 'unsearchable riches of Christ' and understanding of God's presence (interventions) here on Earth
lobro:
Who are you to say what is true, speaking as though it were an absolute? Jesus I know, but who are you? (like the Devil said). What is true to you may just be nonsense in God's eyes - or those to whom God imparts His vision!
Indian and any other 'air' are nothing but hot air - compared to the unsearchable riches of Christ. Man's historical imagination was very fanciful BUT when Christ arrived, He gave us enough substantive material to stop wasting time with vain imaginings.
The hindu religious nationalist parties are very much based on tacit deals with israel.
It's well past my bed time.
Karala is a place that I want to visit. Hindu's, Muslims, (Buddhism?), Catholics and Protestants live together in peace.
There is of course the problem with the nationalist V.J.P.(?) Hindu Party who like Jews believe that you are not Hindu unless your are born of a Hindu mother.
They were believed to be the party responsible for the assassination of Gandhi.
One thing I would like is to take a moment to make clear the intent of my post, the one that got many people hot under the collar. It was really an argument that the western mind has to see the psychic implications of a western mentality that rejects the primary reality of Homo Religicus, something innate in our species and not literal or simply figurative but transcending above the mundane world as we think we see it. Catholicism is the oldest common faith mindset practiced in the western world. My thoughts were meant as an example of the projected view that we have about life and death in our brave new world. There are different forms of suicide, figurative, literal and spiritual. Since we live in a very violent environment (I don't mean just physical) without having access to something other then today's projected inner isolation as normal, we are doomed by that emptiness.
If this inherited spiritual dynamic is not responded to we may as well all pick up the Talmud and slit our throats and/or despise each other while living in our own man made hells.
I hope I may myself somewhat clear. If something similar was stated in another tongue I would have recognized it for what it was. A universal view.
everyone of us are inclined to believing in the One True God that created us.
Fritz,
Annemarie Schimmel also wrote another wonderful book called 'My Soul is a Woman: The Feminine in Islam'. It might not be your cup of tea as a male, but it's good for the other half of the human tribe.
Godsend,
Lay off hp, or I'll retract my ultimate compliment of referring to you as 'm'dear boy'!
Godsend, when you say "The Triune Godhead concept is complex enough,"
you actually mean "The Triune Godhead concept is henotheistic enough". Be honorable, and own it up.
It is outlandishly ironic to see you -with all your unresolved theological contradictions- calling HP and the Hindus befuddled.
there are ancient systems of belief that can give us a glimpse in the ages, and whenever the spirit knocked on the door in whatever shape, this became reality..
Tiger Eye this also I was and am worried about, it seems as if "modern man" is giving up a spiritual or a religious view for a materialistic or worse talmudic one. Will see, I dont know so much. thanks all.
Thanks SweetOldLady, also I admire Annemarie Schimmel´s insight, very exceptional.
lobro | 08.24.07 - 12:46 am - are you sure that was Indian air and not the chronic you were smelling? http://www.urbandictionary.com/d...hp?
term=chronic
Thank you very much Hp & Fritz for those book tips. I just found out I'm to late in applying for the course (bumbed) so I'll prepare for next semester by read.
Godsend, Hp is one of the most, if not the most, wise man on this blog. You were off base.
Not to beat a dead horse, but here I go...
The core problem here as I see it is that there are two fundamental mythologies (there may be more but these two are at work here).
The first is Tigs, GS, Sillysal's, etc. (please feel free to add your own name) that believes in one and only one (no others exist) UNIVERSAL (big emphasis) god.
The second is Hp, Rowan, with Lobro, Fritz & Me sitting on the fence. This mythology believe in a god but does not deny the existance of other, which then means their god can not be yahweh.
If you believe in a universal and only good god than it is logical that you believe in a universal man, a generic man, one man kind under one god. And if this is true then a utopia is possible. A place/state of being where everyone is equal and happy, where there is NO TENSIONS. Heaven.
If you believe in more than one god, you believe in the possibility of difference, diversity, unequalness, classes, castes. It is logical that you would embrace both good and evil in one, if fact you might not even use the terms good & evil. In this mythology tension exists, but tension is embraced as a creative force that spurs man to create (this includes both good & bad)and the act of creating is LIFE, LIVING, BEING, it is an act of a god.---
These two mythologies produce two very different results.
I honestly feel humility at what some of you have said..
Tiger Eye, isn't it miraculous that the most sublime, highest breaths of life are truly exactly the same, even as they are born of seemingly dissonant origins.
As in the Vaishnavas of Lord Chaitanya and their counterparts, the nuns of Christianity, both of whom live to only love God.
And Salman, I'm sure of Islam having the exact same devotees, identical to these spiritually pure humans beings.
Though they may be one in ten million, they still are.
It seems there is an hp 'fan club' here - as in 'something that makes a lot of wind!'
In my book, hp is a windbag! - full of bad India air and no substance worth talking about. He/she continues to make unfounded and unsupported accusations, couched in innuendo. How can anyone get blown over by such BS?
sweetoldlady, I don't give a rat's ass about your opinions (even compliments) - but I love you, anyway
You SEE!, sometimes it takes a little time to 'smoke out' the true colors of posters (like lobro). If you keep digging into the pile of comments and opinions, you eventually get to the bottom (line). If you don't find faith in Jesus the Christ at the foundation, no matter how attractive the building (and arguments) look above ground level, it's a house built on sand! Eventually, all such houses (and arguments) are destined to FALL! It's the foundation (or cornerstone) that matters the most!
The central piece of The Puzzle (of humanity's existence) is Jesus the Christ. If you don't have that piece of The Puzzle right in the center, your solution will be a failure! - even if you have all the other pieces in the right place!
Godsend, unless you can emulate Christ's compassion and tolerance, you gotta long row to hoe.
With all due respect (different folks here may argue about what exactly this "due" is) for your views (and you do have some quite salutary ones, I don't mean to diss you), you are shooting yourself in a foot by going after quintessentially decent people like hp and fritz.
As for who I am - I am me and I speak my subjective truth. When i say that the Indian air appeals to me in Shopenhauer's sense, that is my subjective truth.
If you have proof or at least evidence that this statement displeases God or Jesus, bring it forward.
If not, I will make my peace with the two entities if and when I meet them.
If they can't let their views be known by any route other than your mouth, well, let's not go there, ok?
Until then, be more Christ-like.
We are human after all (most of us anyway). He would understand.
Where He got angry was when it was warranted, like the temple moneychangers and associated vultures.
None of us here are moneychangers.
Rowan, you are correct, as usual.
The Hindu nationalists are not very religious, are they?
So obviously I was in error when I used Schopenhauer to support the truth of Hinduism being unaffected by Jewish influence.
Perhaps I should have said Sanatana Dharma.
Isn't ephemeral logic Jewish in that it is material, concrete, linear? So since Mahaprabhu there would have been Jewish influence.
Well now, lobro, we seem to have some basis for an intelligent exchange of views.
First, to whom would you like me to show compassion and tolerance? Whoever they are, do they deserve that - and why?
Since when is 'decent' a relevant attribute of people and their expressed points of view here? I did not 'go after' hp and Fritz, whatever 'go after' means. I exposed hp for his/her deceptions. I said nothing negative about Fritz.
About your subjective 'truth'. Believe whatever you want to believe but don't pass it off for truth. I'm after universal Truth. What pleases God and Jesus the Christ is for people to seek Truth (Him), not to be satisfied with some fanciful notion or personal 'truth'. You (and anyone else) ignores His Truth at their (eternal) peril. THAT was His message! If you want to deal with that when you meet Him face-to-face, that's your decision. Their views are readily available in many places. If you don't like my mouth, find one that you like!
What do you know about Christ?
He said "I came not to bring peace but a sword". He said "No one comes to the Father except through Me". He said many things about the Devil and described him as 'the god of this world'. He said "Repent". He said "A servant is not greater than his master. If they persecuted Me they will also persecute you". He said many other things.
You SEE!, lobro, Jesus the Christ and His Sonship as God, make Him an enemy of all in this world that is opposed to Him and His Father. That opposition takes many forms - much of it subtle and veiled. The honor of God and His Son are at stake - and ALL enemies, no matter how subtle, are to be exposed in His Light (Ephesians). That equates to the 'Fight of the Faith' against all deniers. Christ resisted all the temptations of the Devil (successfully). His Followers will resist ALL the temptations of the Devil and the Devil's worshipers. If Christ is not in you and you in Him, then you are a de facto enemy of God! Being 'Christ-like' IS resisting and exposing ALL that is opposed to Him. Most of His disciples were martyred in defense of Christ. It's a fight to the death, if necessary.
For your information, Christ spoke in parables and that is how I read Him.
His sword was a figurative one, had it been literal, we'd be watching movies today of "Jesus, the Master Swordsman" chopping armies of opponents like Zatoitchi, jumping 40 feet in the air to behead some monster.
He brought his "sword" to established order of received wisdom, the temple priests spouting lies and hatred, the mind control through fear mongering tactics.
He said: "I shall make you free" and that was his sword, this is what freaked out the Sanhedrin.
He died a lonely and insulting death instead of performing miraculous deeds of martial power because He wanted people to believe free of fear and awe (shekinah - shock and awe).
Look into yourself (and some of your writings) and say honestly that you don't indulge in fear mongering and threats. Do you promote freedom of thought?
If you truthfully answered yes to both questions, then you are my man and we have no bone to pick.
lobro:
How about 'fear of God'? Mongering has negative connotations! How about, I try to deliver God's and Christ's message unequivocally and truthfully, no holds barred and no deceptions, and that message is: "Repent and follow Me", 1st and foremost. Threats? Is issuing a warning a threat? When Christ said "No one comes to the Father except through Me" was that a threat?
Everything I wrote is a warning, aimed at enlightenment and salvation. I hold up the Light for anyone who has eyes to SEE!, if possible. Is it a stern warning? You betcha! Life and Death are at stake! Eternal destiny is at stake! Love and compassion are to be found on the Cross of Christ if you seek Him earnestly. You have to go there, with God's help, and be willing to surrender your Self and everything you hold dear in exchange for Salvation and the unfathomable riches of Christ.
What Christ meant by sword is the deliberate separation of Self from the enticements and lusts of this world - sacrificing the 'natural' in exchange for the 'spiritual'.
When Man was and is confronted with the Cross of Christ, all other 'religions' and imaginings of supernatural possibilities is supplanted by Him! (Truth and Life)
If you can accept that, I have no quarrel with you about the central piece of The Puzzle of humanity's existence!
The Hindu nationalists are not very religious, are they?
hp
Not they are not, hp, no more than Sicilian Mafia and just as vicious.
The educated Indians abhor them.
"Freedom of thought" is a FACT - whether promoted or not. Your thoughts are private - unless you decide to share them with others.
I try to promote the Truth, the Light and the Life! - Jesus the Christ "You shall know the Truth {Me} and the Truth will set you free". No other religion or person can do that for you!
hp
I guess I'm still somewhat naifish. It is unclear to me, eg. whether Donovan can consistently promote Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, Drukpa Buddhism, with an occasional bow to
Pure Land Buddhism, (of the Shinran variety I assume)and also give a nod to Celtic paganism? Don't misunderstand; musical excellence
doesn't guarantee metaphysical consistence.
I am latitudinarian enough to infer the good/truth in Erigina,via Rama Coomeraswamy and/but the ultimate truth in Sankara ; the Perennialists tell me the West writ large is unprepared for any strain of the East save the nembutsu.
(sp?
i honestly am not looking for a fight with you godsend, nor do i mock your message.
as for the fear of god, i take it two ways:
1) in its literal form, it is in jewish bible, not new testament.
jews were nursed on fear and hatred and like a brutally raised dog, eventually turned on owner (g*d), killed him and replaced him with a remote controlled replica.
they are now masters of their own hype and have lost touch with spirituality (why so many turn to buddhism, yoga, kabbalah, new age).
2) the search for the inner self is a lonely road and therefore scary.
someone/somewhere said: "it is the fearful thing to be in the hands of a living god"
and that is only possible during the quest for that inner centre, no power can come to your rescue there, you are alone and must depend on your own resources.
i have seen numerous pilgrims in india, some quite ancient, trudging the high mountain roads with their walking sticks and small alms pots for donated food.
why do they do it - are they all just impoverished?
i was told that many among them (hindus, sikhs, jains, even muslims) were at one time rich men, who all of a sudden gave up their homes, families, businesses to answer some mysterious call, simply got up and walked out the door, never to return.
they were possessed by that "fearful thing", they will eventually die during their pilgrimage, sometimes by exposure in the high passes or simply because their number is up.
lobro:
All I am saying is give Christ a chance.
That quote is from the Bible - it's also on my Homepage My version says: "It is a fearsome thing to fall into the hands of the living God". It's better to go to Him of your own free will, after having been purified by the blood of the Lamb!
I believe there are many paths to God, some very arduous, but they all lead to ONE Door: Christ. All the other paths lead to the abyss - otherwise, the Cross and Christ's Resurrection were meaningless!
All who have ears to hear, let them hear:
"No one comes to the Father except through Me". That is so unequivocally clear that it can strike FEAR into any heart - except those made of stone. Is that 'fear-mongering'?
Peace.
amen
Ken, I know you are very intelligent, far more so than I.
As far as metaphysical consistence goes, how can you guarantee that, or even tell?
I do know that it doesn't take a sunshine superman to know that all of these Buddhists, etc. of which you speak are impersonalist mayavadis. Especially the misleading Sankaracharya, (a Perennial favorite) who, however, is actually misleading by intent, an incarnation of Shiva.
We've been through this before Ken.
Which, by the way, makes it entirely plausible that they who say the West isn't ready for anything other than this are correct.
hp,
I have no dispute with you on authentic holy and humble faith no matter the shape, color, language or custom. If understanding our human condition is manifested in love for the suffering "other" (suffering all things) then love can only lead us too understanding the "other" in and through suffering that love (destroying the ego and its assumptions).
Jesus wept. I wondered if was for himself or for me? Having children and loved one's, I now know that I can weep for the joy and sorrow of just being alive, participating in a profound gratefulness for truly experiencing this terrible yet wonderful gift of being.
My son works with me. He's on the coast with his teenage friends taking a vacation. I have never demanded that they (my children) practice the "faith" of their father. He just called me (while I was writing this) to find out how my visit went with a doctor I had to see today. This simple act of concern and consideration is love in action. Love makes us weep for both joy and suffering. Doesn't "it?"
Yes Tiger Eye, it sure does.
From the Protocals of Zion
Masses Led By Lies
4. Moreover, the art of directing masses and individuals by means of cleverly manipulated theory and words, by laws, and by all sorts of other odd methods: the Goyim understand none of this because it belongs to the specialists of our collective governing intelligence.
Reared on analysis, observation, and delicate calculations: in this type of skill we have no rivals, any more than we have rivals in the drawing up of plans of political actions and solidarity. In this respect the Roman Catholic Church might have compared with us, but we have conspired to discredit them in the eyes of the unthinking mob since they are an observable organization, while we ourselves have kept our secret organization in the shade the whole time.
However, it is probably all the same to the world, which doesn’t really care who its sovereign lord is: whether the head of Catholicism or our despot of the blood of Zion!
But to us, the Chosen People, it is very far from being a matter of indifference.
Some of the Protocols of Zion translated into modern English.
http://www.iamthewitness.com/Pro...ern-
English.htm
Tigs, I can well believe that even if the Protocols are a fake, they are practiced as such by the power-Jews.
However, what exactly do you (or anyone here) know about attributable provenance of this document.
I know that jews go to great lengths to discredit it as a malicious forgery but I also know enough not to take their word for it - they are a liar nation after all.
They will deny authenticity of Talmud if it suits them.
So, what's the scoop on this?
I am satisfied that it is largely based on Joly's "Dialogue dans l'enfer entre Machiavelli & Montesquieu".
Rowan,
I can imagine that Machiavelli and Montesquieu set the ball in motion for the Protocols. Good point.
The Talmud is an indication that the
Jews were ripe and receptive in their mindset to adopt its tenants vigorously and with zeal. That is, they sill want their pound of flesh from every goy.
The only problem with your theory is that the Talmud preceded Mavhiavelli's "The Prince" by five centuries and Montesquieu by eight centuries. Perhaps the Protocols was an offspring of all the above.
Joly may have brought their Protocols to life but the dynamics were already seeded, I believe, in the Jewish Talmud.
Well if your satified Rowan, we'll just put that baby to bed (tongue in cheek of course...Seriously I respect your opinion.
Tigs, is it possible that the jooz set up Christianity as a red herring, like the right/left paradigm? All the sentiments you expressed only a fool would disagree with, but I'm also sure that those same sentiments will/would/could be found in religions that do not worship yehwah. Yet as true Christians we can only accept the existence of yehwah.
I can entirely accept that true or not, Protocols are just a distillation of the anti-gentile paradigm within Talmud.
So, while they rant about how they are just a cheap fake, the real thing forges ahead out of sight, out of mind.
As for Jews inventing Christ, I don't think that they are capable of such reach of ethics and common sense, though i may sound like Salman denying Hitler the ability to write Mein Kampf.
Ya, you're probably right but it does bother me some that (and I think this is correct) the only secular source of Jesus' historical existence was written by a Jew, Titus Flavius Josephus and that so much of the New Testament is written and/or translated by Jews. Isn't there just a whiff of herring in the air?
hp
in eg rejecting Shankara's monism and
promoting those who claim
he was little more than a Buddhist
agent infiltrating Hinduism, appears to be as narrow as Godsend, in his own more sophisticated way.
maybe not as narrow but tending toward it.
Tigs, is it possible that the jooz set up Christianity as a red herring, like the right/left paradigm?,
This is what certain strains of pagan nationalist movements claim and it is what defenders of the Roman Empire occasionally claimed against nascent
Christianity.
But of course on balance the grandsweep of Christianity went on to hold Jews in check for 2000 years. Make that 1900 years.
Amida-worshipping "Pure Land" Buddhism is a Christian-friendly genre. Which hp perhaps does not wish elaborated here.
The nembutsu so chants in honor of the boddhisattva who sacrificed his own attainment of nirvana by vowing to hasten the attainment of same by the masses through bhakti. The devotee
surrenders and acknowledges his own incapability to attain advancement on his own merit and practise.
This schemata is not dissimilar in notable ways from Christ's sacrifice.
Nor from hp's own methodology of
devotion, but to of course another,
not Krishna per se but Amida.
Ken, if you cannot or will not see that ALL Buddhists, from the Dalai Lama down or up to whatever new or old impersonalist sect(s) are created or discovered, are atheists, then there is no reason to compare, discuss or talk at all.
I already gave you a quote from Sankara's own writing, where he admits, if only for just one single sentence, Vishnu(Krishna) is the Supreme Personality.
Now if you are a greater authority on Vedanta than the very impersonalists you adhere to, especially Sankaracharya, then I would be willing and eager to listen to you. But you are not, so, it's been fun.
I am not upset, uneasy or disturbed at you in any way. OK?
Josephus was a Roman "wannabe." Most historians have dismissed much of his historical claims as fabrications and have chuck them into the dust bin of Jewish antiquities.
Me,
If your a literalist you wouldn't find Him anywhere.
I have said, many times on this blog, that the "Christo" is a "Mythos." For me the "voice" of the "Christo" is found in the Four Evangelist Gospels of the New Testament. This is why we have the disciplines of Exegesis, Hermeneutics, and a mystical nature of our being that reveals the psychic reality of the Deity within the human heart and mind. These are revelations about the nature of the man/creator dialectic that identifies the desires and hopes of humanity. If there were no historical proofs of an evolutionary movement to develop speech and writing I wouldn't bother responding to you.
Otherwise we are left with the obvious "we're born then die" cage and dead end. Man would have resigned himself to nothingness and unanswered absurdities, yet we have evolved to attempt to understand the mystery of existence, especially our existence. Again, Quantum Physicist say that if you observe any matter close enough it vanishes into an infinite smallness that parrot's the grand scale of the universe, endless and transforming. Our natural desire is to give it meaning, and for many, a "metaphor" that can be understandable. What is the creative force behind matter? What is the creative force behind man? Man's most recent evolutionary movement is in his development of a new language that will give him a new roll and place in the creation.
Dualistic thinking does not allow for evolution because it presupposes a contradictory mindset that can't evolve out of its stagnate mode of being. Because one position negates the other.
Tiger Eye, admiring your understanding, this put´s me on the path of Hermeneutics. When you write, Deity beeing in us, shure this can be seen as the potential of devellopment that is inherent in human beeings, even we could state that Deity is in the world, the world and universe is no dead matter. Here is the problem if or how we are able to actually see it.
For the Deities of older religions, one could assume they often represent aspects of the mind, emotions and nature in these very complex sytems the ancients had develloped. They are very difficult for us modernes, even the Greek ones, but some understanding is more ready through the tales like the Ilias.
But also the Christian belief, as you also explain it, is a complex system with different approaches, pointing to Jesus resurrection as the main direction as i think and this belief also has parallels in other peoples spiritual tales. Problem often it is the terms, the words - the Hermeneutic. It´s not so much a problem with a-theism, but to view the world as dead matter, nihilism and the human as highest end-product. Perhaps there is a greater devellopment in the world now..
Fritz, isn't it so very obvious that it is certainly not human evolution, rather human devolution?
Fritz,
You understand. Nothing is sacred anymore. All is up for the plundering.
Nature responds in-kind.
Unnatural practices are one of the greatest reasons for population growth and economic instability.
Corporations are the primary cause of this. They have no national loyalties and care only about their bottom line.
The new generals today didn't come out of military academies they were weaned on the foul conditioning and propaganda of our public and private schools. They are told at a very young age that they should only want to "make money." Who needs formal training in the humanities when you can "make money?"
They just have to ask the Zionist Bankers who make our fiat non "gold" based interest laden coupons on how to "make money" out of nothing.
All bankers are zionist and all the zionists are bankers somewhere along the line.
Used to be called usurers and moneychangers, they developed a slew of new scams to fleece their victims.
World needs them like it needs cancer.
Yes, the mention of Jesus in Josephus is a notorious forgery.
Tigs, I'm not sure I understand all that you were saying, but I do understand the spirit in which it was said and very much appreciate that. The thing I would say is: why does god need to be in us, or work through us? Why can't we be the god, the creative spirit? If man didn't exist would god? The answer to these questions lies in the mythos we chose to believe. I'm toying with the idea that people of european decent should reawaken to our organic spirit. That is not to say bring back the ancient celtic gods but to rediscover the spirit that produced them in the first place. Anyway that's where I'm at right now...a sort of work in progress.
Hey, Me, the real God is not just some fad that you can 'bring back' when it suits you. No wonder you're confused! At the rate you're going, you'll never finish your 'work in progress'. Either that, or you'll be sorry you finished it!
Get Christ - get Life!
Hp, is this the manusmriti you spoke of?
http://www.hindubooks.org/script...riti/
index.html
The only book I've come across is Manusmriti; Contemporary Thoughts (Hardcover)
by Narhar Kurundkar (Author), Madhukar Deshpande (Translator)
I want to make sure I'm looking at the right thing. Thx
I'll take my chances Godsend
Me:
Don't you think your eternal destiny is just a little too important to leave to chance??? All this Indian and Hindu and Buddhist stuff is nothing but reeking air! I guess some people have a nose for it.
you see Godsend you have no tolerance, and you're quite nasty, you reflect what you value and I don't want any part of it.
Yes Me, it is.
And I'm pretty sure you aren't going to like it much.
You know, the treatment of women..
You're right, Me and hp, I have no tolerance for deception, blasphemy, rebellion against God, attacks on Jesus the Christ (veiled or open), intellectual arrogance or just plain stupidity! - take your choice of any or 'all of the above'
Godsend, ease up a little. Your teeth gnashing is giving me the willies.
hp
Pure Land Buddhists would be surprised to hear themselves decribed as atheists and/but you might also be surprised to hear me say I don't dismiss BJP and similiar Hindu political "extremists" as non-spiritual, as you and Rowan do, you more pre-sumptively than Rowan,either.
Guess I'm just more latitudinarian than you and Godsend.
Me,
"That is not to say bring back the ancient celtic gods but to rediscover the spirit that produced them in the first place."
It's interesting that you said the above. If you read the life of St. Patrick in Ireland you'll be surprized to see that in western Britian and Ireland the Celts were relieved by the teachings of Patrick. A void had been filled. They believed that he had, through Christ's love for the creation, had brought light into matter and for the Celts this was essential since it was the darkness that frightened them the most.
This dualistic aspect was, for them, reconciled because of their past practice as pagan's worshiping nature (the creation). The Roman Church gave them a special dispensation that they didn't have to abandon their primary belief's. This still is in effect even today. They existed as a Catholic people for nearly two hundred years when they finally decided, on their own, to offically enter the Roman Rite.
Read Thomas Cahill's (Tounge in cheek)
How The Irish Saved Civialization: The Untold Story of Ireland's Heroic Role from the Fall of Rome to the Rise of Medieval Europe. Also the recent 5 star DVD, St. Patrick: Apostle of Ireland:
"Who was St. Patrick? The man that came to be the patron saint of Ireland was an ordinary man who accomplished the extraordinary by placing his faith in God. Originally sent to Ireland in the 5th century as a bishop to lead Irish Christians, Patrick chose instead to bring Christianity to those Irish not yet converted, and did so without bloodshed. As a result of his life and work, there emerged a uniquely Celtic form of Christianity, a religion firmly Christian in belief yet not far removed from the traditions, practice and law of the Irish.
Director Dave Tennant takes the viewer on an emotionally moving and visually dramatic rendition of the life of Ireland’s Patron Saint. Filmed entirely in Ireland, the film follows the story of both the man and the saint, unraveling myth and history, with commentary from Father Frank Fahey of Ballintubber Abbey and Michael Slaven, author of The Book of Tara."
"...emotionally moving and visually dramatic redition of the life of Irelands Patron Saint." And that it truly is. My sister said my brother, a retired military career Senior Chief Master Sergent and Vietnam veteran, was brought to tears watching it. We never saw him react like that before.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_Land
here is a broad sketch of the faith hp, in "Godsend" manner, calls "atheist."
Meanwhile, I do not "adhere" to
Sankara,I am a Christian. You
"adhere." I appreciate.
Ken, you have a penchant for putting words in peoples mouths.
I wonder if you wouldn't argue with and twist the words of the Dalai Lama himself, even as he told you in plain and clear English, we Buddhists do not believe in Paramatma, in God. Period.
Also Ken, in your supplied Wikipedia article outlining this particular Buddhist sect, I did not one time see God mentioned or considered, at all. Not once.
I'm 100% positive if you yourself talked with any member, including the head Boddhisattva himself, said member(s) would also state clearly and concisely, there is no God, no Supreme Personality.
If that ain't atheist, then I don't know what is, but I'm pretty sure you do..
And as far as latitudinarian goes, huh?
KH:
Are you a 'Christian' in the Bush vein, in the Papal vein, in the Hagee (CUI) vein, in the Osteen and Copeland 'Mammon' vein, in the Moon (Rolls Royce) vein, in the Methodist (like Bush) vein, in the ecumenical vein or in some other vein? Does 'Fight of the Faith' mean anything to you? If you don't understand the question, find an explanation of the question and the answer on the T. Austin-Sparks' website (among MANY other answers about Christ and what it requires to be a Follower of Christ).
I take it then, that you are NOT a Follower of Christ but you like to wear the label of 'Christian'? Do you have a fish symbol on your car? Is there a cross around your neck or displayed where you live? HINT: you need to pick up and carry your cross daily, not wear it around your neck or display it for show to convince yourself that you're a Christian.
Righteo!
hp
"Edit - You're right Buddhists don't pray to God/Creator but they do have devotional meditation which is often compared to praying. Some sects do praise a divine being. " In Japan millions of Buddhists pray to Amida Buddha, the Buddha of Infinite Light. They believe that Amida has created a Pure Land in the west and that those who have faith and repeat Amida�s name in prayer will go there. Yet they also believe that Amida is really within them"
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learn...ry/b_faqs.htm\"
You are of course engaging in misdirection, which is your right to do in tune with your own Tradition in the panoply of Traditions. Since you reject advaita vedanta you also reject
the proposition that the ultimate thrust of the term "atheism" is not
dependent on a personalist impersonalist dichotomy.
http://www.meta-religion.com/
Wor...jain_theism.htm
of course the most common unjust recipient of the term "atheist" is
Jainism, the injustice of it, from another angle, elaborated upon here.
Nobody said it was going to be easy, Ken..
I did not say anything derogatory or misleading about the atheist Buddhist impersonalists who are absolutely wonderful moral and gentle peaceful people.
In Japan, people also pray to their dead ancestors, among other things, and none of them are God, either.
This whole exchange should have ended nicely with; "you're right Buddhists don't pray to God/Creator.."
Why didn't it, Ken?
You continue to misdefine "atheist" and reject, (in a similar manner in which Godsend rejects his rivals,and more,) the most esteemed school of Hinduism based on Vedas, advaita vedanta.
Japan's dead ancestors do not
propel their progeny along the Spiritual Path, so you insult the Pure Land Buddhists by comparision
to Amida.
Man from Atlanta can discern, even if he wishes not to supplement the truth here, that your insularity-perfectly acceptable within Tradition-nonetheless explains your use or misuse of terms such as "God" and "creation," in the Absolute context.
www.wesh.com/news/13949580/detail.html
for any who care, here is an elaboration on how hp misuses "God" and "atheism" in a Buddhist/Absolute context.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/...d/zfa/
zfa04.htm
here is the proper source for elaboration of why Buddhism is assuredly not atheistic.
You're a real pip, Ken. A real pip.
The proper source Ken?
Seems like this is the "proper source."
The Fourteenth Dalai Lama of Tibet, accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1989 and stating clearly for all to hear (except ken), "Buddhism does not accept a theory of God, or a Creator."
Now I think, in general, like in 99% of people who can read and hear, this would be defined as being an "atheist." Not that there's anything wrong with that..
Ken, I believe there is a medical term for what it is you have, but on the street it's known as an inability to say "uncle."
I believe you need a broadened
study, i.e. of panentheism. Or is that on your Forbidden List?
"At the outset, let me state that Buddhism is not atheistic as the term is ordinarily understood. It has certainly a God, the highest reality and truth, through which and in which this universe exists. However, the followers of Buddhism usually avoid the term God, for it savors so much of Christianity, whose spirit is not always exactly in accord with the Buddhist interpretation of religious experience."
Do you know what Buddhist said this? Someone much weightier than the W. Va. boys ever had in the West.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyen_Shaku
I'll help you
"Soyen Shaku (1859 – October 29, 1919, Kamakura, Japan; sometimes written as Soen Shaku or Kogaku So’en Shaku) was the first Zen Buddhist master to teach in the United States. He was a Roshi of the Rinzai school and was abbot of both Kencho-ji and Engaku-ji temples in Kamakura, Japan. Shaku was a disciple of Imakita Kosen."
Again...
http://biblia.com/theology/buddhism6.htm
"Devas-gods:
Some Buddhists speak of the existence of category of beings called devas.... in Buddhist texts the supreme god is referred to as Mahâ-Brahmâ (or simply Brahmâ) who was the chief of a class of gods called the Brahmâs. Brahmâ of the Buddhist texts may be considered to be the equivalent of the God of the three monotheistic religions that was to emerge in the Middle East."
As you reject entire schools of Hinduism you are in no position to select particular Buddhist schools or individuals as proving your argument (whether,ultimately even they do or not.)
I was in Sikkim in 1972, shortly after a bunch of Tibetan teachers arrived as refugees and set up their schools anew.
The highest ranking among them was called Karma-Pa (or something like that, he had this special ceremony performed on rare occasions when he would put on this hat - for some reason a big deal) and I ended up making a pleasant acquaintanceship with one old teacher (forget his name unfortunately). We had several interesting conversations, although I was by no means a disciple.
One thing I remember specifically was in response to my query about all those blue faced gods and the notion of deity in general.
He asserted that they were just vehicles of communicating psychological and philosophical notions to people with "childish" attitudes requiring "childish" representations.
I do recall his name now: Karma Kala Rimpoche. A sweet old man with a humorous twinkle in his eyes.
He told me that he was something like 14th (or 9th, I honestly forget) reincarnation of the same teacher of a particular school.
Someday, when I am close to 100, I will be relating how at one time I had exchanges with Ken Hoop and people won't believe me.
many will be claiming they were Lobro.
the point is, hp is practising his own
exclusivist denominational triumphalism within the broad and ultimately inclusivist Spiritual Path.
lobro
that is,there will be many having copies of your posts claiming they are you.
Some of them, lobro, may even claim you are God, or at least the loup-garou..
Did hp just call Buddhists heretics
in a misdirected manner?
http://www.buddhismtoday.com/
eng...istSpectrum.htm
Pallis is great on the subject of Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity.
Michael Parenti on Buddhism:
http://www.michaelparenti.org/Tibet.html
Something all religions can be ashamed of.
many will be claiming they were Lobro
Some of them, lobro, may even claim you are God, or at least the loup-garou
That's what I like about reality; in the end you are still you and I am me, whatever the paparazzi may do to our images.
The above may have been a graffiti in Queen's shithouse.
Supposedly the Church reduced the
evil accrued by werewolves over time.
They went from the quintessentially
negative to mere "dangerous heretics."
Perhaps hp was paralleling same
viewed from evolutionary historical Vaishnavian (sp)/Buddhist interactions
in south Asuia.
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