Maybe the izzies are biding their time while the Gaza, Iraq & Iran situations play out. Plus, another murderous assault on Lebanon at this moment could complicate Clinton vs. Obama over in the USA.
Don't forget that Joe Lieberman had to prompt McCain not to link Iran with al-ciada but with 'terrorism'. Fisk's news that thousands of young hezbollah are going to Iran for live-fire training would be exactly what Lieberman-McCain can call 'terrorist training'.
Iran is obviously being restrained in its issue of weopans (mainly missiles) to guerrilla fighters in Iraq & especially Lebanon. Anti-tank stuff but little anti-aircraft gear. If the hezbollah boys now have the latter then they have some great little equalizers.
It would be about time the izzies realize that their days of pushing their borders north, east & south are over.
"Watching the missiles take down tall buildings in Tel Aviv will give the world something to cheer about."
I'll be outside the Israeli embassy in Toronto cheering LOUDLY if that happens...
Watching the missiles take down tall buildings in Tel Aviv will give the world something to cheer about.
Sure would, Xymph, because it'd mean the water, electricity, sewerage, airforce facilities and navy, cargo and oil terminals were all gone - along with bridges and Tel Aviv airport, the refinery and every identifiable fuel dump in Israel. That's quite a few days work to get through before wasting expensive munitions on symbolic gestures.
Still, it'll be interesting to hear whether Israelis find groping around in the dark, pissing in buckets and drinking water from ponds, bird-baths and swimming pools, as humiliating as Gazans and Lebanese, or more so? It might even help to redefine 'Chosen'.
Hell yeah, and besides the fact that that architecture is often unnaturally ugly.
They'd be airlifted by all the combined airlines and military transports (usa) at their disposal. Then put up at Hiltons and holiday inns all over america until their new settlements are built.
now if fisk would stopping calling israel "america's proxy".
well, only took 20 minutes to get into this comment window. forgot my comment. bad choice of this computer.
maybe tomorrow?
"Watching the missiles take down tall buildings in Tel Aviv will give the world something to cheer about."
Quote of the year, Xymphora. Let's hope it comes true. In spades. These guys have it coming to them. But I fear hp is right and I can see all the izzies ending up in palatial accommodation at 5-star hotels in Manhattan.
It's a bit risky saying bombing the hell out of Tel Aviv is "something to cheer about". Isn't backing the sh***y little country compulsory?
There's such a thing as Thought Crime, Zymph. Maybe you need to be careful, huh?
Hizballah - social radicals
(this link is of 1998 )
While the initial years of its emergence as a political movement in Lebanon were turbulent and controvertial, The Party of God has matured to become an important and pivotal force in Middle East politics in general and Lebanese society in particular. Hizbullah has its immediate historic roots in the social uprising of the Lebanese Shi'a community in the late 1960's and early 70's that took its inspiration from the charismatic Imam Musa Sadr who "disappeared" in Libya in 1978.
the various other community activities of Hizbullah are of equal if not greater importance at home. It runs a range of philanthropic and commercial activities including hospitals, medical centers,schools, orphanages, rehabilitation centers for the handicapped, supermarkets, gas stations, construction companies, a radio station (Nur) and public service television station (Al Manar). Up until the middle 1990's Hizbullah was also responsible for public services and utilities in the southern suburbs of Beirut.
Hezbollah beautiful video
resistance against Israel video
UN Human Rights Official Wants Investigation Into US Government Role In 9/11
John Bolton: "This is exactly why we voted against the new human rights council."
Steve Watson
Infowars.net
Thursday, April 10, 2008
An official in the newly formed UN Human Rights Council has called for a fresh investigation into the events of 9/11 in order to examine the possible role that neoconservatives may have played in the attacks.
The New York Sun picked up the story today, explaining that Richard Falk, a professor of international law emeritus at Princeton University, and an expert on human rights was assigned to a new position within the council on March 26.
His role is to report on human rights in the conflict between Israel and the Palestinian Arabs.
Two days prior to the announcement, Falk appeared on former University of Wisconsin lecturer Kevin Barrett's radio show and spoke of how he is keen to see a fresh investigation into 9/11 in order to address inconsistencies in the official account of what happened.
Mr. Falk told Barrett, "It is possibly true that especially the neoconservatives thought there was a situation in the country and in the world where something had to happen to wake up the American people. Whether they are innocent about the contention that they made that something happen or not, I don't think we can answer definitively at this point. All we can say is there is a lot of grounds for suspicion, there should be an official investigation of the sort the 9/11 commission did not engage in and that the failure to do these things is cheating the American people and in some sense the people of the world of a greater confidence in what really happened than they presently possess."
Falk previously penned the preface to Professor David Ray Griffin's groundbreaking 2004 book The New Pearl Harbor, in which the theologian catalogued scores of unexplained facets surrounding 9/11 and inconsistencies in the official government version of events.
Falk has also published a number of notable books and essays analyzing the legality of the Vietnam War and other military operations, including the Iraq invasion.
A year ago he played a prominent role in a Citizens' hearing on the legality of the Iraq War as a tribunal testifier. Of the Invasion he has previously written:
"inescapable that an objective observer would reach the conclusion that this Iraq war is a war of aggression, and as such, that it amounts to a Crime against Peace of the sort for which surviving German leaders were indicted, prosecuted and punished at the Nuremberg trials conducted shortly after the Second World War."
Falk's appointment to the Human Rights Council has also hit headlines due to the fact that he has previously slammed the Israeli occupation of Palestine and compared the Zionist government's treatment of Palestinian Arabs to the Nazi treatment of Jews in the holocaust.
The Israeli government announced Tuesday that it will deny Falk a visa to enter Israel, Gaza and the West Bank.
Despite this and the now customary attacks from the Anti-Defamation League, Falk has stood by his comments, telling the BBC: "If this kind of situation had existed for instance in the manner in which China was dealing with Tibet or the Sudanese government was dealing with Darfur, I think there would be no reluctance to make that comparison,"
The New York Sun reports that former ambassador to the UN, John Bolton commented on Falk's recent appointment to the Human Rights Council: "This is exactly why we voted against the new human rights council."
Bolton is clearly worried that like Falk, some of the officials within the council are legal experts that recognize war crimes when they see them and may actually attempt to do something about it.
Last month Japanese member of Parliament Yukihisa Fujita told the Alex Jones Show that a potential new investigation of the 9/11 cover-up may be coordinated by individuals within the United Nations.
It remains to be seen whether the Human Rights Council is composed of enough well meaning individuals to have a significant impact or whether, like much of the rest of the UN, it becomes a part of the establishment left arm of the global elite system.
http://infowars.net/articles/
apr...408Official.htm
Nasrallah Speaking on Divine Victory Rally English Subtitles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=w...feature=related
Xymph, Jewish goodwill is certainly not mythical. I happen to know that from personal experience, but your statement is so self-evidently false that it seems almost redundant to mention it. BTW, I assume you saw the thought-provoking Adrienne Arsenault feature on the CBC on the re-unification (facilitated by the CBC)of the Israeli Jewish employer and his former Palestinian employee before they were forcibly separated many years ago? They hugged each other and broke down in tears, such was their regard (dare I say love?) for each other.
I notice that you use JEWISH where I would use ZIONIST. As many Jews are not Zionists (indeed, an ever-growing number of Jews are speaking out strongly against Zionism) and many Zionists are not Jews, I find it curious that you would consider Jewish to be synonymous with Zionist. The tragic irony is that you have succumbed to the very claim of the Zionists themselves, who likewise claim to represent all Jews. Xymph, I agree with many of your opinions. Zionism is repulsive, and you present intelligent arguments against it, but you're hurting the anti-Zionist cause by equating all Jews with Zionists. Maybe you don't mean to, but that is precisely what you do every time you say Jewish when you really mean Zionist.
Correction:
"...the re-unification (facilitated by the CBC)of the Israeli Jewish employer and his former Palestinian employee before they were forcibly separated many years ago?"
"before" should be "after" in the above sentence.
Richard Falk, quoted above by righteo:
[It is] "inescapable that an objective observer would reach the conclusion that this Iraq war is a war of aggression, and as such, that it amounts to a Crime against Peace of the sort for which surviving German leaders were indicted, prosecuted and punished at the Nuremberg trials conducted shortly after the Second World War."
If this is so glaringly obvious ("inescapable"), one wonders how the same malefactors are now openly advocating the nuclear devastation of Iran — a country that that has started no aggressive wars for centuries and simply wants the world's Superbully to LEAVE IT ALONE!
Hp goes on about karma elsewhere; there is also maya to consider. The reason that this nightmare situation unrolls is this: the American people are plunged in the dream of maya. America is asleep. Its denizens are sleepwalkers. You could kill 10 million Iranians tomorrow, and no one would blink an eyelid in the Country of the Living Dead.
"It's real all right, but only temporary." (Hp). Hmmm, it has the same reality as a dream! A bad dream. As for it being "temporary", Time itself is unreal.
Maybe Life's just a bad dream in God's mind.
Richard Falk is a righteous jew.
seabow - it is right to talk about jews specifically as zionists because the illegitimate entity calls itself a jews-only state.
If non-zionist jews want to reclaim their independent identity then it is up to them to denounce the foul entity and all its minions especially in the USA. They need to create their own separation from zionism & all its works. Until they do they are the same as zionist jews. Silence signifies assent.
As for the dechristianised zionists they are the most deluded morons on the face of this planet. One may hope for a time when the scales fall from their eyes.
righteo | 04.11.08 - 4:14 am | #
"If non-zionist jews want to reclaim their independent identity then it is up to them to denounce the foul entity and all its minions especially in the USA."
As I said in my post, righteo, many Jews are doing exactly that. Here is but one example: http://www.nkusa.org
(Neturei Karta International, Jews against Zionism).
By the way, if you click on the link in my previous post, check out the powerful photo of Orthodox Jews burning the Israeli flag. The caption reads,
"Anti-Zionist Orthodox Jews in London and New York burned the flag of the so-called state of 'Israel" to protest the actions and existence of the Zionist state which is totally contrary to traditional Jewish teaching and beliefs. This event has been taking place annually during the Jewish Holiday period of "Purim"."
righteo, Jews are individuals, each with his or her own worldview. Some are saints, others are a..holes,but the vast majority are decent people trying to get by, just like you and me, my friend. Most Jews are propagandized almost from birth to believe that they need their own nation for their own protection, because the rest of the world is against them. The irony is that it is statements such as those in your posts that reinforce their beliefs and thus strengthen the Zionist state.
NK is not enough. Ordinary jews must denounce ADL, AIPAC and the hundreds of alphabet jew organisations that make izzy possible.
Who provides the troops to read the all press and listen to radio & TV programs to detect 'bias' and deluge the media with thousand of complaints via emails, faxes & phonecalls? Who donates to political campaigns? Who sends their kids to hebrew schools & colleges that indoctrinate them into persecution complexes? Why, millions of ordinary jews. They provide the logistical support for the izzy project.
Xym. has already written of this J-Street which hopes to head off any defections by ordinary jews from supporting the loathesome entity. Pure smoke & mirrors.
Army News
U.S. must leave Iraq, retired generals say
By Rick Maze - Staff writer
Posted : Friday Apr 4, 2008 12:45:38 EDT
(...)
Retired Army Maj. Gen. Robert Scales Jr., testifying before the Senate Foreign Affairs Committee about U.S. military strategy in Iraq, said he has no doubt that a major withdrawal of combat forces is coming because the U.S. has “run out of military options” and cannot indefinitely sustain troop levels.
“Regardless of who wins the election and regardless of conditions on the ground, by summer the troops will begin to come home,” said Scales, who headed the war college in 1997. “The only point of contention is how precipitous will be the withdrawal and whether the schedule of withdrawal should be a matter of administration policy.”
(...)
Scales testified along with two other retired Army generals, Gen. Barry McCaffrey and Lt. Gen. William Odom, who also agreed a withdrawal of U.S. combat troops early in the next president’s administration is inevitable.
“We face a deteriorating political situation with an over-extended Army,” said Odom, who served as director of the National Security Agency in the Reagan administration.
“The only sensible strategy is to withdraw rapidly but in good order,” Odom said.
“Only that step can break the paralysis now gripping U.S. strategy in the region.”
McCaffrey, a former chief of U.S. Southern Command and commander of the 24th Infantry Division in the 1991 Gulf War, predicted a withdrawal of U.S. forces within three years or less because there is “no U.S. political will to continue” and because allies “have abandoned us.”
“It is over,” McCaffrey said.
http://www.armytimes.com/news/
20...hdrawal_040208w
righteo, NK may not be enough for what, exactly? Certainly it's enough to disprove Xymph's false equation Jew = Zionist. In my opinion, your unrealistic insistence that all Jews instantly renounce not only Zionism, but all of its concomitant auxiliaries before you're prepared to give any Jews or Jewish organizations such as NK credit, is not only mean-spirited, but counterproductive. The truth is that our world view is largely shaped in childhood by our parents, religious teachers, etc. That an increasing number of Jews are beginning to speak out against Israel despite their upbringing is a positive development to be encouraged, not disparaged.
When I was in my early 20's (there were still dinosaurs back then), I dabbled in Trotskyism. Not surprisingly, about 3/4 of my fellow "Trots" were Jews, and every single one of them was a passionate anti-Zionist, and for that matter anti-Jewish-alphabet organization, too. righteo, I believe that if we want to encourage Jews to renounce Zionism (and we certainly should!), then it simply defies common sense to disparage those who already do as not worthy of recognition. Xymph's falsely equating Jews with Zionists, however, does exactly that.
Xymph, most cheerful article I've read in a long time.
Seabow, I take strong issue with your statement that the "vast majority of jews are decent people. . .". Take a look at any survey taken in izzyland, in every one of them the vast majority of jews reject living with Palestinians, or having any contact with them. In the last one that I remember, 80%, repeat 80%, of jews would want all Palestinians and Arabs to be deported from izzyland.
Yes, there are certainly some very decent Jews, but the VAST MAJORITY of jews are racist pigs.
Seabow, re your last paragraph. The fact that your Trots rejected zionism, does not mean that they reject a jews-only izzyland (with no end in sight). It's these same 60's activist Trots who are now the strongest supporters of izzyland in the US. Take a look at some of those "charity" affairs that are held for izzyland, a good portion of the attendees and sponsors are 60's "activists".
the neo-cons were trotz,'tis said, hence the 'neo' in neoconservative.
kassandra, you seem to be conflating Israeli Jews, who are Zionist almost by definition, with all Jews.
You are right that some Trots became neocons, but the majority did not. I am certainly not a Trot today (never really was, in fact), but it is just as wrong to suggest that the majority of Trots became neocons as it is to "prove" that 80% of Jews are racist by citing a survey of ISRAELI Jews.
Anyway, we have something in common. Like you, I equate racists with pigs.
The last anonymous was me.
seabow, Your statement said "vast majority are decent people. . .". Does this not mean jews everwhere, including izzyland?
And whether the majority of 60's activists were Trots or not, is immaterial. That some Trots did morph into neo-cons is true, as righteo said. Most of those jewish 60's activists located in the US have become unquestioning supporters of izzyland. Look at your own statements. You continue stating that many jews are anti-Zionist. How many of those anti-zios are pro-Palestinian? They may find those greasy-haired zios distasteful, but that doesn't mean they believe Palestinians have a right to live among them, not to mention that Palestinians are the original owners of the land and water the izzys covet.
For example, I have yet to hear of a charity occasion in the US held by US jews that is in support of Palestinians. The facts just don't support your statements.
"a victory for every free person in the world"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=w...feature=related
Thanks for the great video Fritz.
"For example, I have yet to hear of a charity occasion in the US held by US jews that is in support of Palestinians. The facts just don't support your statements."
Now there's an idear, seabrow...
I see that Berkeley is still in his self-imposed exile(eye-role).
For all of his usefulness, that boy can be quite the drama-queen at times, I must say.
Hey you guys, lay off pigs!
Lalara,
They can prattle on all they want about illusion. A poke in the eye with a sharp stick is just that.
All Jewish Trots support Israel, without a single exception. Since '67, the slogan of choice has been the two-state solution, which means in practice, not two states but rather a powerful Jewish-only state and a Palestinian bantustan.
The Jewish Trots are simply part of the wider evolutionary group strategy. Among the Trots, however, the major tenets for achieving this are as follows:
(1) organize your leftist group so that Jews are always the overwhelming majority, even in those countries where Jews are otherwise a distinct minority -- and fail to notice, never mind rectify, this discrepancy;
(2)nationally, adopt anti-racist anti-nationalist multiculturalism as your program;
(3) internationally, support anti-nationalist ethnic self-determination, whenever it seems likely to weaken the enemies of Israel -- and not otherwise;
(4)internationally, support a racist Jewish-only state: you are the majority and wish to remain so. Ignore the right of self-determination for the Palestinians at all costs.
Xymph's falsely equating Jews with Zionists, however, does exactly that.
seabow | 04.11.08 - 6:03 am
It's not that simple, seabow. Zionists, and only Zionists, are the ones who go out of their way to implicate every single Jew on the planet with Zionism (self-haters excepted).
It may not be FAIR, or REASONABLE for Xymphora to feign acceptance of this 'truth' (IF that is what he's doing) but there's nothing stopping non and anti-Zionist Jews from setting the record straight.
In the War on Islam / Mock War on Terror vernacular, the puerile expression "If you ain't with us yer agin us" has been 'legitimized' and may be freely used to the disadvantage of any randomly chosen group or individual until the cretin who coined it retracts it. I'd be in favour of keeping it until it's been used as a reason for Americans to give Bush and Cheney a fair trial before they execute them. Or after. Justice only has to be seen to be done...
that fair trial HW mentions may be coming sooner than we could all hope for. Wayne Madsen takes the gloves off today:
"At the trial on April 10, prosecutor Butler was interested in the type of sex performed by Dickinson on her clients. WMR has, in the past, hinted at the type of sex requested by one top escort agency client but, based on the government's harassing of escort witnesses, we feel that it is time to present all what we now know. It is no secret that many of the escorts brought whips and handcuffs to trysts with clients. It is also known that Vitter enjoyed escorts changing his diapers after he defecated in them.
Although it appears that Cheney first became aware of Pamela Martin escorts though their work for Halliburton and its subsidiary Kellogg, Brown & Root (the latter now known to have employed a number of rapists in Iraq), what is not known is that Cheney personally contracted in some of their services. In fact, Cheney reportedly was so fond of one that he arranged a political appointment for her in the Department of Agriculture shortly after the 2001 inauguration.
Cheney, according to knowledgeable sources involved in the Palfrey trial, paid at least one escort to straddle a glass top table and defecate on it while Cheney peered at the bowel "evacuation" from underneath. Will prosecutor Butler subpoena the Vice President to testify about that encounter? It might give Butler instant sexual gratification while giving the public an idea of what makes Dick Cheney tick."
Lalara,
They can prattle on all they want about illusion. A poke in the eye with a sharp stick is just that.
hp | 04.11.08 - 11:26 am
hp, you sound like the Zen Master I never had!
Hardly. I can barely manage to keep from poking myself in the eye. Ouch.
a jews-only izzyland (with no end in sight)
But this is precisely Xymph's own vision of the future of Palestine: he has repeatedly expressed support for the genocidal fraud known as the "two-staate solution". He has been low-key about it of late, but it's on the record.
Ouch.
hp | 04.11.08 - 1:57 pm
Clever boys solve riddles quickly.
T. Lawless
You sure there's nowhere a Trotskyite Party which calls for the right of return of all Pals and a plebiscite to decide how the nation should be governed? Just asking.
I could be wrong but I don't believe the knowledgeable membership of NK would particularly object to Xymph's perspective.
Re interchange of words that is.
Inexplicable to the slow witted.
kassandra | 04.11.08 - 8:21 am | #
"For example, I have yet to hear of a charity occasion in the US held by US jews that is in support of Palestinians."
Here's an American Jewish organization that does far more than have a "charity occasion". It continually works for Palestinian justice.
http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org
Here is a quote from their website:
"We fully support efforts by Methodist and Presbyterian churches to divest from companies that profit from Israel's occupation of the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem. This includes American companies such as Caterpillar that profit from the wholesale destruction of Palestinian homes and orchards."
Here's the website of the Chicago chapter ("Not in My Name"), whose very name refutes the falsehood that Zionists speak for all Jews.
http://www.nimn.org
Is that the sort of thing you demand of US Jews, or is this still not enough?
Tony Lawless | 04.11.08 - 12:03 pm | #
"All Jewish Trots support Israel."
Could you please link me to the survey you are referring to, Tony?
Here's a link to the World Socialist Web Site [Trotskyists, btw], which has a lengthy list of pro Palestinian, anti-Isreali articles.
http://www.wsws.org/sections/cat.../me-
peace.shtml
Hoarsewhisperer | 04.11.08 - 12:08 pm | #
"It may not be FAIR, or REASONABLE for Xymphora to feign acceptance of this 'truth' (IF that is what he's doing) but there's nothing stopping non and anti-Zionist Jews from setting the record straight."
As I mentioned in my post to Kassandra,
Here's the website of "Not in My Name", whose very name refutes the falsehood that Zionists speak for all Jews.
http://www.nimn.org
So you're right, Hoarse, their isn't anything stopping anti-Zionist Jews from setting the record straight, and that's precisely what they're doing in ever-increasing numbers. Of course, if you don't WANT to admit this truth, then I suggest you (and Xymph, too for that matter) have a problem.
Seabow:
I would be interested to know how many of these articles were written by Palestinians, other Arabs or even non-Jews in North America. This is significant because of the issue of self-determination. The correct Marxist position these days would be to say that there should be NO articles by Jews -- for the same reason that men would not be allowed to write articles on the issue of feminism.
As I see it, the program can be fine; but it is never implemented. Then, within the group, a much greater range of opinion is tolerated on the issue of Zionism than would be tolerated on, say, South African apartheid. (Divergence here would be grounds for automatic expulsion.)
Next, a much greater emphasis will be placed on combating anti-semitism than, say, would be placed on combating anti-white racism as a potential backlash against anger over South African apartheid.
Firsthand experience, I'm afraid.
Anyone who believes a word this idiot writes needs to be committed.
Bring back the real Xymph!
Tony, I'm merely saying, after some people on this site called for anti-Zionist Jews to publicly condemn Zionism, that there are several Jewish groups and predominantly Jewish groups that do exactly that, putting the lie to Xymph's equation of Jews with Zionists.
As to your observation that Jews in general tend to be more concerned with anti-Semitism than South African black racism towards whites, I put it to you that South African whites are more concerned with black racism directed at them than they are about anti-Semitism. In both cases, it would be surprising if that weren't true. It's merely human nature. To use such observations to criticize Jews who speak out and write against Zionism is in my opinion, small-minded. Surely, if your prime concern is to defeat Zionism, you should be encouraging anti-Zionist Jews, not condemning them. It's no coincidence that Zionists condemn anti-Zionist Jews with such venom. In my opinion, the very fact that they are Jews, and thus can't be dismissed as anti-Semites, makes them far more effective than gentiles. Am I wrong?
Is that the sort of thing you demand of U.S. Jews, or is this still not enough?
seabow | 04.11.08 - 4:30 pm
(and subsequent comments)
Regrettably, the short answer is no.
Why?
Because Zionist propaganda is a loud and ubiquitous in-your-face hydra. Without wishing to sound too disingenuous, setting up a non or anti-Zionist website is just a little PASSIVE, don't you think?
If the non and anti-Zionists aren't at least trying to develop a media profile and presence RIVALLING the pro-Zionist media profile and presence then one could be forgiven for assuming that they don't feel Existentially Threatened by Zionism's efforts to implicate them in the crime against human decency known as Israel.
I would also remind you that Zionism isn't exactly short of websites of its own. So even if Palestine-friendly websites completely nullify Zionist websites, this still leaves the media profile issue unadressed.
This isn't a QED, but it is a point worthy of cogent explanation; and "It's all too hard" wouldn't cut the mustard, in my opinion.
Just to put a fine point on it, I believe that people who maim and kill children, whether deliberately or accidentally, while perpetrating violence on adult unarmed innocents, are cowardly sub-human scum regardless of their race, religion, nationality or ethnicity - and I always will.
And people who don't speak out against it are little better than the perps.
Seabow:
I used to agree with your position, but nowadays I think you are wrong.
I think Jews should take part in anti-Israeli apartheid movements as ordinary citizens, not as Jews. Once you have a group of self-identified Jews, they will start to raise issues that help to split the movement and to make themselves the focus of attention. This is human nature (ethnocentric human nature), and it can be fought -- but not if you say, let's organize as Jews to fight Israel. The parallel with white people and South African apartheid is exact, here.
I suspect it is also human nature to practice self-deception. Leftist Jews who SAY they support the Palestinians but never do anything about it, are think I extremely widespread. These leftists often have relatives in Israel or at least solid contacts there. Ralph Miliband is a good example. I can give you more examples, if you like.
Ken:
To the best of my knowledge, no Jewish Marxist group supports the Right of Return. They are for the two-states, which would be negated by the exercise of the Right.
The January 08 page in the Leunig calendar is relevant to the subject of Rocketmen.
http://www.etshirts.com/shop/gal...&
group=Special1
While at least Marxists should be aware of the plutocracy and media-moguls, but most often it seems they are happy that this system will lead to an imagined "class-war"-- Jews also have little of a relation to other people in terms of folkish, a people, traditions -- and are lacking generally, what is most needed these days. Necessary for survival of the human race is a feeling for the land, a return to nature, a healing of the destroyed landscape and natural living.
Fritz, I agree with your sentiment about the need to heal the destroyed landscape, etc., but was this not very much the ethos of the hippie movement of the '60's, a time when most people never gave a second thought to the environment. Interestingly, the number of Jewish hippies was disproportionately large compared to Jews in the general population. Perhaps the most famous hippie of them all was Allen Ginzberg.
Tony:
"To the best of my knowledge, no Jewish Marxist group supports the Right of Return."
I refer you once again to the World Socialist Web Site, a Trotskyist site, the majority of whose members are almost certainly Jews.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/200.../pal1-
j22.shtml
From the above link: "Israel adamantly refuses to acknowledge the principle of the right of return for Palestinian refugees and their descendants because this would be tantamount to accepting responsibility for what happened to them. Moreover, since it would end the Jewish majority in Israel, it has been repeatedly denounced as a threat to the very survival of the Zionist state."
Just thought you'd like to know. Ken too.
Hoarse, how on Earth are anti-Zionists supposed to get the attention of the mainstream media? Hold a gun to their heads?
Seabow:
Sorry to disappoint you, but one swallow does not make a summer.
The ICFI, besides being tiny globally, does not have a section in Palestine, so the issue of the Right to Return would not come up as a political demand for any of its sections. I would be more impressed if you had told me that the members of the US section make it a point to work in a comradely fashion within Al-Awda, but it's not at all clear that this is the case. But please: if you have more information, let me know. (I will know how to interpret the absence of response, just as I am quietly appraising your unwillingness to acknowledge anything that I have said in debate with you.)
But I note in reading on, that their political analysis of how Israel was created is the standard left Zionist line of bullshit, complete with the 6 million dead. At least they could say 5.1 million to make it look pseudo-scholarly!
The problem is that Jewish Marxist groups can CLAIM what they like. The reality is always different. Take Solidarity, the US socialist group. They CLAIM that they are anti-racist, but the majority of their central committee is Jewish. They are less ethnically diverse than the average US city. How is this possible? Jewish self-deception.
Tony:
You stated, "To the best of my knowledge, no Jewish Marxist group supports the Right of Return."
I told you of one that I knew of off the top of my head. However, rather than acknowledging this, you decide to move the goalposts. Sucker that I am, I'll provide you with a second example. When I "hung out with" if you will, the predominantly Jewish Trotskyist organization called the League for Socialist Action and its junior (and more activist) counterpart, the Young Socialists, they were as anti-Zionist as anybody on this website, and they very definitely advocated for the Palestinian right to return. Indeed, I recall a formal public debate between the Young Socialists' Harry Kopyto and a spokesman for a Zionist organization, which Harry won hands down. Right of return was a very hot topic that night, and Harry vigorously defended it.
As for the majority of the US Solidarity movement's executive being predominantly Jewish, do you not think that this is merely a result of the fact that most leftist social activists are in fact Jews? I certainly saw no racism (despite my goy status) when I was involved in the movement. Female chauvinism yes, but not racism. In fact I believe the leader of the LSA at that time, Ross Dowson, was a gentile.
Seabow:
I guess you're right. Most Trotskyist groups are predominantly Jewish because most left social activists are Jewish. That means we can only count on 2% of the US population being for the revolution. Minus all the Zionists, of course.
I also accept your silence on the issue of Al Awda as settling the matter. Jews talk to other Jews, particularly if they are Zionists and particularly about Israel. After all it is a family quarrel, and there are no truly hard feelings because some of us have relatives in Israel too, you know.
Tony:
I really have no idea whether or not the ICFI has made it a point to work in a comradely fashion, etc. etc. I didn't respond, because the point that I wished to make was that the Trotskyist groups I knew of did in fact (and likely still do) support the Palestian right to return. If you then move the goalposts and insist that I must prove to you that they actively support Al-Awda before you'll accept their stated support as genuine, that is what sore losers do. You are in effect saying, "Okay, maybe I was technically wrong, but... etc." Well, Tony, you can no longer say, "To the best of my knowledge, no Jewish Marxist group supports the Right of Return." Beyond that, I'm really not terribly interested in what you deem to be necessary for an organization to prove its sincerity or whatever. Incidentally, your "Jews talk to other Jews" comment was very wide of the mark. The debate I alluded to was widely advertised by posting handbills in public locations. It was not some in-house Jewish affair. As for the "no hard feelings" remark, I distinctly remember the very real hostility between the two Jewish antagonists. Indeed, you'll have a hard time convincing me that there are "no truly hard feelings" between Zionists and "self-hating Jews", which as you no doubt know is the Zionist Jew's "term of endearment" for an anti-Zionist Jew.
Now if you want to have the last word, Tony, go for it, because I've about had my fill.
MIRIAM K to the FILTHY BEASTS WHO FREQUENT THIS WEBSITE :
I, Miriam K, wish to give notice to the vile creatures who infest this shameful website that the five hateful comments quoted below are definitely going to appear in my doctoral thesis: "Online Anti-Semitism: the Need to Curtail Free Speech in the Interests of Future Holocaust Prevention."
(Dr Miriam K., PhD)
These comments have no redeeming features. They constitute incitement to violence. If the term 'hate speech' is to have any meaning, it must be applied to comments such as these.
It is clear that the five miscreants who said these vile things — and those who aid and abet them by reading their iniquitous incitemeants to a Second Holocaust - cannot be allowed to continue in this way. They must be stopped.
My fellow Jews, beloved Survivors of Holocaust 1, read these hate-filled words and shudder:
1. "Watching the missiles take down tall buildings in Tel Aviv will give the world something to cheer about."
- Xymphora
2. "I'll be outside the Israeli embassy in Toronto cheering LOUDLY if that happens.'
- stevieb | 04.10.08 - 1:01 pm | #
3. "Quote of the year, Xymphora. Let's hope it comes true. In spades. These guys have it coming to them."
Lalara Pandora | 04.10.08 - 7:35 pm | #
4. "There are certainly some very decent Jews, but the VAST MAJORITY OF JEWS ARE RACIST PIGS!!!"
- kassandra | 04.11.08 - 6:24 am | #
5. "Hey you guys, lay off pigs!"
- dave | 04.11.08 - 11:06 am | #
Are we to laugh at comments like these, or are we to weep? Is this the way intelligent, civilized people conduct their discourse?
In the Middle Ages they had ways of dealing with people like this. They cut off their tongues. They tied them to whipping posts and flayed the skin off their backs. They boiled them alive in vats of bubbling oil.
Such a fate is too good for the likes of the five hate speech merchants quoted above.
I pray to God that the Jews who control America soon start building internment camps for criminals such as this. We need new gulags for the goyim. Soon, Lord, soon may it be!
Anyone got a straitjacket?
Where does one make bookings for Camp Abu Ghraib 2?
Well done, Miriam! Your fighting words brought tears to my eyes. You're one feisty lady, no doubt about it.
I'm going to run off a copy of your words and show it to all my buddies in Holocaust Class.
Keep up the good work, hon,you sound just like my poor dead Mom . . . God rest her soul in the swastika-desecrated cemetery.
Marx Brothers, move over!
I pray to God that the Jews who control America soon start building internment camps for criminals such as this. We need new gulags for the goyim. Soon, Lord, soon may it be!
Miriam K | 04.12.08 - 7:16 am | #
Thanks for that priceless gem, Miriam. If only it had been a bit shorter! I'd have had it on a T-shirt.
How about: NEW GULAGS FOR THE GOYIM!
definitely going to appear in my doctoral thesis: "Online Anti-Semitism: the Need to Curtail Free Speech in the Interests of Future Holocaust Prevention."
(Dr Miriam K., PhD)
Miss Miriam K, until you submit your thesis for examination, have it examined by three examiners, who then recommend that it merits the Degree of Doctor of Philosophy, that recommendation being accepted by an Academic Board, and the Registrar writes to you that the thesis has been accepted, and you then are awarded the Degree of Doctor of Philosophy at a Graduation Ceremony (or in absentia):
UNTIL THEN YOU MAY NOT USE THE TITLE "Dr Miriam K, PhD".
Naughty girl, go and stand in the corner until you say you are sorry for being so deceitful.
False Pretenses come under "Bearing False Witness" in case you have ever heard of such a prohibition.
Go easy on her, righteo. She means well!
I pray to God that the Jews who control America soon start building internment camps for criminals such as this. We need new gulags for the goyim.
This lady has nothing to learn from anyone about hate speech!
nah, our little miss miriam k. is no jew, she didn't hyphenate the Holy Name.
dead giveaway.
Seabow:
Thanks, since you offer, I will take you up on the last word! The example of Ralph Miliband illustrates the fact that we SHOULD NOT take Jewish leftists at their word. At least -- until we see all their words, both those spoken in public and those spoken in private. And until we look at their actions also. This point of view is also consistent with a Marxist view of the subject. As Marx says, "Philosophers have merely interpreted the world, the point is to change it".
In other words, words are not enough.
As the example of Miliband illustrates, it is possible to be both "a notable Marxist political theorist" (Wikipedia) and "passionately opposed to the Vietnam War" (Wikipedia), and a Zionist who supported the cause of war and wished for Israel to prevail in 1967.
The one thing that connects these two apparently unconnected set of attitudes is Miliband's Jewishness. His Jewishness set him against nationalism, whether US or UK, and his Jewishness made him support Israel. However, because his image was as a socialist internationalist, he had to remain publicly silent about his support for Israel until after his death.
Nonetheless, as the editor of the Socialist Register, it is not difficult to recognize the silent pressure he would have asserted in ensuring that anti-Israel essays would be few and far between (and that when they did appear, they would be written by fellow Jews such as Marcel Liebman).
The only puzzle for me in all this was wondering for the longest time about the attitude of his sons. How, I wondered, could his two sons become such uncritical admirers of Israel, when their father had been such an uncompromising internationalist?
What a sucker I was!
MIRIAM K to BROOKLYN STUDENT:
I'm sorry you lost your mom in the Holocaust and that her grave in the cemetery is being defaced by neonazi skinheads — i.e. by the type of people who frequent this website.
While I sympathise with you and wish you well, I must ask you not to address me any more. You are beginning to embarras me. Your comments verge on the foolish and I do not wish to be associated with you.
Your asinine remarks about "sixty million" dying in the Holocaust — a figure backed up, you say, by our father — has been an acute embarrassment to me. (Your father must be senile). True, I made that mistake first. But my error, as I explained, was a mere typo. My finger slipped on the keyboard.
Please takes these remarks in the charitable way in which they are intended. Don't write to websites like this. Don't even READ them!
Study Torah, study Mishna, study Talmud. Collect donations for Eretz-Israel. And prepare for Holocaust 2.
Brooklyn 'student' must be 50 or 60 years old, at least, if said 'student' lost mom in the war.
Just wondering. I know students can be of any age but one tends to think of students as being below retirement age, normally.
Miriam,
"I am sorry that you lost your Mom in the holicaust"!!!!!
That makes "Brooklyn Student" a young 64 year old liar.ut who's counting? Excuse me, I'm sure Jews never lie. So may your next Holohoax be happy and bright.
And "Brooklyn" keep at it, someday you'll be agreat Jewish Zionist ADL politian.
And prepare for Holocaust 2.
Miriam K | 04.12.08 - 10:48 am
Forgive me for butting in, Miriam, but you seem to be confused about Holocausts:-
H1 - Armenian, late 19th/early 20th Century (depending on sources, records & witnesses, and confirmed in US Congress earlier this year).
H2 - Jewish, early 20th Century (but didn't get off the ground and is now denied by Jews).
H3 - Jewish, just prior to mid 20th Century. Did get off the ground.
H4 - Palestinian, immediately following H3, with Jewish H3 survivors as perpetrators.
The only Holocaust anyone can prepare for, Miriam, is H5.
--------------
Hoarse, how on Earth are anti-Zionists supposed to get the attention of the mainstream media? Hold a gun to their heads?
seabow | 04.12.08 - 12:50 am
I suspected you'd try that stunt which is why I wrote
...and "It's all too hard" wouldn't cut the mustard, in my opinion.
Why not a little whining about the Holocaust and anti-Semitism? It usually works, does it not? And if calling Jews 'self-hating' isn't anti-Semitism, I don't know what is. Can you seriously imagine ABCNNBCBS refusing persecuted Jews a spot in the news to confront and refute their evil persecutors?
I can't.
All Hell would break loose if they refused on the grounds that "We don't give air-time to self-hating Jews."
hp, Brooklyn Student has already signed herself off in previous postings as "Brooklyn Student, age 18".
So she's probably getting mixed up between her mom and her grandmom. Jews are generally good at math. Witness Einstein. But they tend to go to pieces when it comes to the Holocaust.
Your obsession with the six million hoax-figure is beginning to worry me, hp. There are more important things to worry about. Like killing Palestinian children on a daily basis.
Brooklyn Student is just a Zionazi storm trooper. I see her as punk Goth. She probably shaves the left side of her head, wears a nose ring, stomps round in kinky black leather boots, and looks a bit like Marilyn Manson's ugly kid sister.
Alternatively, she could be Abe Foxman in drag.
MIRIAM K to the FILTHY BEASTS WHO FREQUENT THIS WEBSITE :
I, Miriam K, wish to give notice to the vile creatures who infest this shameful website that the five hateful comments quoted below are definitely going to appear in my doctoral thesis: "Online Anti-Semitism: the Need to Curtail Free Speech in the Interests of Future Holocaust Prevention."
Miriam, if Zionists were ever genuinely interested in Holocaust prevention then you wouldn't be here squabbling about the blowback from Israel's Holocaust in Palestine.
The reason you ARE squabbling about it is because you decided to visit for the express purpose of indulging in a little (Palestinian) Holocaust denial of your own.
And btw, Miriam, that's doctrinal thesis (as in dogma) despite any claim you, or your supervisor, might make to the contrary.
To Miriam K from Brooklyn Student, age 18.
Miriam, you can't ask me to stop addressing you. That's not fair. This is a public website. I'm an adult aged 18. I have my dignity. You simply cannot tell me to go away. I won't!
The reason I'm replying to you is because I've just been insulted by that woman you called "Hitler's little dollslut" and "whorish Gestapo Girl". The bitch has just begun to insult me — I who lost my grandmom in the Holocaust!
Honestly Miriam, I'm going apeshit out here. I want to cut my f***ing wrists. And you tell me to piss off just when I'm forging a closer relationship with you. I've begun to look on you as my Spiritual Mom.
Look below at what this NAZI BITCH says about you. How come you haven't replied to her vicious personal attack? G-d, Miriam, I expected more of you. I can't sort this Bitch out for you. I'm only 18. I haven't got the vocabulary. I'm pretty dumb, I guess. So for G-d's sake, Miriam, get cracking!
Here's what she says:
"What do you have to say to these crimes, Miriam K? Do I see you weep? Do I see the slightest look of compassion in your eyes?
"No, I see the hard, cruel eyes and the clenched lips of the female concentration camp guard. Ilsa the She Wolf — it's you, Miriam!
"Thank God little Lalara Pandora believes in karma. May you reap what you sow, Bitch Incarnate! May your eyes be pecked out by ravens, may your liver be lacerated, may the sun and moon never shine on you again!"
- Lalara Pandora | 04.10.08 - 6:21 pm | #
Sickening, isn't it? And what do you do? Nothing.
I know why you're on this vomity website. Same reason as me, Miriam. We're monitoring it for anti-Semitic material, right?
You're writing your thesis. I'm walking the walk and talking the talk. I'm learning, you're teaching. Neat. Cool. Awesome.
So don't tell me to get lost, Miriam, because I won't do it!
Brooklyn Student, don't cut your wrists, for G-d's sake!
Think crazy, Xenophile! It's a crazy world out there.
Hieronymus | 04.12.08 - 9:51 am | #
I've been thinking crazy all my life, dear Hieronymus. And where's it got me? I'm still sane.
I doubt it. You're as crazy as a bee in a matchbox.
stevieb | 04.10.08 - 1:01 pm |
yes, stevie, maybe we'll spot each other there.
Cheering,
The sooner Iran gets nukes and means of a 2000 km radius of delivery, the sooner the peace will break out.
No anti-world-governmentism implied, I meant they can defend themselves and their neighbors (read: Syria) from Tajikistan, obviously.
Brooklyn Student, age 18 and his mom got killed in Holocaust?
Par for the course ... it would take more than a doctoral thesis to explain that one.
I guess Holocaust is the Jews answer to Immaculate Conception, all drama, no bloody mess, no videos allowed either ...
Please note, fellow commentators, that Brooklyn Student is an 18-year-old FEMALE. Her father calls her "Babushka". This word, I understand, can only be applied to females.
It seems she originally thought SIXTY million died in the Holocaust! But she has been persuaded by her "Spiritual Mom", Miriam K, to settle for SIX MILLION.
The poor kid also seems to have got her mom mixed up with her grandmom.
It was her mom to start with. But when it was pointed out that this would make her a 64-year-old student, she did a quick rethink and decided it must have been her grandmom!
Quite a little tap dancer, is Brooklyn. She'll go far. If she's a good looker, Mossad may line her up for future honeytrap operations to catch American politicians with.
Brooklyn, are you a good looker? D'you want to do blackmail work for AIPAC and Israel?
If so, step into the Israeli Embassy in Washington — and you won't need to work in Bloomingdales any more.
Rocketmen
Xymph was right: it was the Israelite terrorists, who bombed the infrastructure in Lebanon in 1986, bombed waterplants bridges houses and blocks in Beirut, committing 1000 fold murder on women, children civilians, without any justification for that. So why this lamentation of the yeshiva students about a blowback?
short video for the first time on the net, the missiles of Hezbollah
and Hezbollah Rockets!!!!! DIVINE VICTORY 2006
---more often already, but this was in 2006.
Hieronymus, please don't address me any more. Your tone is unacceptable. Just because I'm young and vulnerable, you take advantage of me and try to make me look ridiculous. I don't like rude people, so bugger off!
I don't like the name Hieronymus either. You're just Bosh!
short video for the first time on the net, the missiles of Hezbollah
and Hezbollah Rockets!!!!!
Fritz | 04.12.08 - 9:08 pm | #
Fritz, let's hope the rockets reach their targets.
Aim for Brooklyn.
Please don't get personal.
I'm enjoying this. Good for an early morning chuckle. How many jokers do we have here?
upwards of 6.000.000, apparently.
Xenophile, are you a linguist who lives in Germany? Just asking out of interest.
What's the matter with Hieronymus Bosch?
Brooklyn Babushka, Please keep at it! Not often we get such good satire here. Let's hear more about those babushkas in Brighton Beach counting their holocaust winnings.
Miriam Katz, the Princess of the Chosen People: Here's some regurgitation from Racist Pig No., izzyland's first Chief Rabbi, the sainted comedian Abraham Issac KOOK: ". . . the Jewish excellence and nobility surpasses that of any other nation."
"There exist sainly, philosophical, religious and Divinely imbued persons everywhere, but with Israel alone the National spiritual fruition coincides with the Universal Ideal."
No doubt this is how you see yourself, Miriam Katz. But then, there's reality, and this is how the rest of the world sees you and your grandma Babushka, Miriam:
http://thetruthseeker.co.uk/arti...cle.asp?
ID=5476
Well done, kassandra — give 'em a good bashing!
I've spent hours mulling over your comments and the fascinating links you have recently provided since you decided to end your enforced exile.
What I love above all is your moral indignation and evangelical militancy. Long may it continue. Sage of Estonia, my bessings and my homage.
Such maledictions are music to my ears! Attagirl, Lalara Pandora. You're not a poet, by any chance, are you?
Occam's Razor | 04.11.08 - 5:00 am | #
I enjoy your postings too, Lalara Pandora, some of them positively hilarious, but it seems to me you should have had the courtesy to acknowledge Occam's words of praise (above) and taken the trouble to answer his well-meant question. It's not right to ignore people.
You and I have crossed swords before on the subject of rape. Please let's not get involved again in such exciting polemics. I just think you ought to be more humble and answer Occam's question.
Actually, Lalara, I am an Illuminati of Google.
You must be crazy! Who wants to know if Gestapo Girl is a poet? If she is, I bet she's a lousy one.
Just checked in . . . and what do I see? Two new insults. One from Hieronymus, one from Babushka Baby. So what's new?
Babushka, please wriggle away and lay your egs on someone else!
Hieronymus, if you must know why I didn't answer Occam's query, it's because I'm trying to concentrate my attention on Xymphora's important ideas. Also on the many sober and factual comments on this intellectually challenging website. I am here to learn, not to be "distracted from distraction by distraction." (T.S.Eliot, 'The Four Quartets').
You will learn, Hieronymus, as you grow older and wiser, that one of the marks of increasing senility is the inability to distinguish the relevant from the irrelevant.
I do not, of course, wish to accuse you of senility. You sound too much like a juvenile delinquent for that!
Sorry, Lalara. I overstepped the bounds of civility. I know it isn't relevant to the other readers of this website if you're a poet or not, but I only asked because I'm interested. You see, I'm a poet myself.
People discuss all sorts of things on this website, between themselves, that have no relevance to the subject under discussion. For example, Ken Hoop and hp discuss Hindu philosophy (Dvaita vs. Advaita). It gets a bit like a private chatroom at times. This is accepted practice. No one is so discourteous as to butt in tell them to keep to the point!
I think you owe me an apology, Lalara.
I apologize with utmost sincerity.
Well then, are you a poet? I ask this with increasing "relevance", since you've just quoted T.S.Eliot.
Well then, are you a poet? I ask this with increasing "relevance", since you've just quoted T.S.Eliot.
Hieronymus | 04.13.08 - 11:48 am | #
Since we appear to be in a private chatroom right now, with no one else on the horizon, here is my reluctant answer to your question.
It's a poem I wrote a few days ago after reading something on this website. So I suppose you can call it "relevant".
It's also very short, which is why I've decided to offer it to you in the hope that you may at least appreciate its simple sincerity.
WOUNDED SOLDIERS
I dreamt I saw six soldiers
Cursing the sun and rain,
Sobbing for lost sweethearts,
Racked in beds of pain.
Then I saw their frothing
Mouths flecked with spittle dregs:
They were weeping, weeping
Because they'd lost their legs.
And this, Hieronymus, is what is happening to our troops. Our young men are being brought home in body bags and stretchers. Their blood is staining the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan. And soon it will be Iran.
And why? What's it all about? Don't ask me, I'm just a passing shadow.
Wow!
"Poetry is a comforting piece of fiction set to more or less lascivious music."
Mencken
Lalara, I am deeply moved. Overwhelmed. But who's going to publish such searing anti-war poetry? There's no market for it in America.
Don't make me laugh. The poem sucks. Even hp says it's "lascivious".
Even hp did not sat that at all.
I typed that before the poem, else I would never have typed at all.
"I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night, Alive as you or me
Says I, "But Joe you're ten years dead,"
"I never died," says he
"I never died," says he
Thanks for the correction, hp. I was getting really worried. I thought for a moment my Zen Master had ordered me to jump off a cliff.
Now I'll be hearing Joan Baez foe a while.
Hmmmm....
I think you should, anyway. That's what I'd advise. Don't forget to wear your jackboots.
I was referring to LP jumping off a cliff.
Babushka Baby, give it a rest. Why don't you jump into bed and curl up with a nice book?
Ever tried reading Enid Blyton's 'The Famous Five Go to Auschwitz'?
Riveting stuff. Foreword by Elie Wiesel. Authenticity guaranteed by the ADL.