Well, I'm glad to see you and Mitch are in agreement.
So am I. I think that if your representative doesn't represent you, on issues you care about, the proper thing to do is get rid of them (through the political process, natch), and that the earlier -- say, at the endorsement stage -- the better.
As to the specific bill, I haven't looked at the line items; I've been busy with other matters, and Republican party loyalty is of no more importance to me than DFL party loyalty.
But, by and large, my experience has been that when the state proposes to quickly throw a huge chunk of money at a problem, they're neither doing it frugally nor wisely.
If this bill is an exception, I'll be stunned. But I guess we'll see.
Flash,
I don't read Berg any longer, he's become a running joke.
Joel, I concur that funding thrown quickly is often funding thrown stupidly, but I think in this case, it's funding finally done right, rather than done as a loan. They've known for a pretty long time that we've not paid our way as we should have. We've borrowed and bonded rather than paid the freight we should have.
If Berg, or any other nut-case, is advocating revolt against the Republicans who voted for this, then clearly his 'center right' claim is as hollow as his general rhetoric. As is his commentary about big-tent Republicanism vs. unanimity in the Democratic Party. I think anyone who observes the political world is aware that Republicans destroy anyone who gets out of line, and Democrats are plagued by defections which they don't like, but don't retaliate against. Repulbicanism is defined by it's 'loyalty first' attitude - witness Monica Goodling's attitudes and questions in hiring. Shame on them, but nothing new.
Has Mitch Berg cleaned up his yard yet?
"I think anyone who observes the political world is aware that Republicans destroy anyone who gets out of line, and Democrats are plagued by defections which they don't like, but don't retaliate against."
Kind of funny: "No, they are the control freaks, not us"
I want to know where the Republicans expected the money to come from to repair the bridges and roads..
They remind me of college kids maxing out their credit cards and never expecting to pay it back..
Gigi, you're right, except these irresponsible legislative borrowers are hoping to fill out the credit card applications in the names of their infant children in some twisted GOP version of identity theft that leaves the children saddled with the debt without ever giving their approval.
Oh, and under that new bankruptcy bill? Non-dischargeable.
Two questions: 1. Where is the most of the actual road and bridge money being spent, i.e., rural or metro? 2. What is of more value to the state - $1 Billion for trains or $1 Billion for our K-12 schools that are having to slash mere millions from their budgets every year it seems?
Can we at least fund the schools first? I'd rather have educated employed workers driving and riding buses than under-educated, marginally employed workers on a shiny toy train.
The Spending on this bill was not in dispute. In fact, your own caucus had a 7.5 billion dollar proposal, almost a billion more. That Billion will line up nicely in the education coffers. Everyones happy.
But you know, as do I, you caucus won't go with that. It might be the right thing to do!
Flash
Troy,
It isn't about control, well not precisely, it's about obedience and loyalty. In the GOP world, it's nice to talk about freedom to think and act according to integrity or honor, but when party calls, you'd better pony up.
The Democrats TRY to enforce party lines, but very very often fail. The Gingrich revolution was in part about getting 'loyal' and committed Republicans in place, and Tom Delay made his bones whipping anyone who defected. McCain is vilified by the right for being a member of the gang of 14, but you rarely if ever hear about one of the 7 Democrats being retailiated against - in truth, it doesn't even come up.
So, in the end for the GOP, while it might not be control, it certainly is about ensuring victory by being able to count and count on votes, and anyone who puts that at risk, well, they aren't welcome in the tent.
I'd challenge someone to come up with a parelell to the repudiation McCain faces over his comprimise position with the 'Gang of 14', but I'm sure they exist. It's just that my personal lens and experience suggests, in the end, yeah, the GOP is about lip-service to liberty, and really just wants to adhere to a flawed ideology. Anything that doesn't conform, isn't welcome.
Yes, leftout, far worse repudiation exists. You could, if you'd like, ask, say, Jane Hamsher about the leftwing Democrat attacks on the Senator she so, uncharmingly refers to as "Rape Gurney Joe."
In comparison, in the Republican party, the much-abused McCain is getting the frickin' Presidential nomination.
See the difference?
I remember the old Flash who would actually take into account the economics on the ground before mindlessly shilling for the DFL But now that you're in with Soros, your reason has left the building, to the point where you actually are defending a 30% increase in the gas tax, a .25% bump in the sales tax (what's it up to in HennCo now anyway?) and more while we're heading into a recession.
I miss the old Flash. If this is the sort of intellectual firepower it takes to avoid being marginalized, then please marginalize the hell out of me, thank you very much.
LF:
Do you guys even read the posts before you reply . . didn't think so.
I am not a fan of the sales tax increase. I think some of the creative financing mechanisms in the GOP proposal should have been considered. But they refused to negotiate i n good faith and took and much needed gas tax increase off the table.
"you actually are defending a 30% increase in the gas tax"
You forgot to say over 20 or so years when divided out since the last increase is still less than inflation. But you knew that!
Flash
I agree bring out the OLD Flash...
Then they (IR) may not be treating you in such a De Minimus way. Heard back from them yet?
"Balanced and reasonable"? do you read your own posts?
Look, 5 cents I can buy into but but the slide to 8 1/2 plus sales tax plus new car tax...plus plus plus...it is never enough and the spending has just begun. With so much money being pumped into the discretionary spending bin Reps will be knocking at the transportation door. They likely will have to hire someone new just to handle all the district pork requests...I foresee a lot of meetings being held.
But get used to it, now they have the taste of Veto override blood in their mouth the spending bills will fly, I bet the revisor's office and tax department are going to need to require mandatory overtime for their employees.
The story is not about those who crossed over but the predictability of the Tax and spenders...(just wait till you see the price tag about healthcare if they are honest about the numbers) maybe if the bill was more "balanced and reasonable" there would have been more support.
Logic, reason and sensibility has just left the building..enter the spendamaniacs...
Doc,
"""Balanced and reasonable"? do you read your own posts?""
did you actually read this part:
""I would have liked to see the Sales tax portion off the table, and an incorporation of some of the creative financing mechanisms in the GOP proposal included.""
Didn't think so!
""here would have been more support.""
Over 10% of the GOP caucus went along. Sheesh, the Right proclaims bipartisanship when they get Joe Lieberman and/or Zell Miller on their side. This was over 10% of their caucus.
Flash
"Over 10% of the GOP caucus went along."
Right.
They are complicit in the enivitable result as well.
So when, say in June, gas prices hit $4.00 a gal and the auto industry starts laying off thousands because they can't give their products away I, as a Republican, do not want to have to concede that members of my party remained in good standing after having thrown taxes onto the recessionary bonfire.
THAT's why the override 6 had to go.
This is a Democrat led debacle; they orchestrated it, they own it.
Of course I read it, hence the comment . On one had you say it is balanced and reasonable then you proceed to say that you did not like so the sales tax. so what am i to understand? again do you read your own posts?
It's like me saying I liked the override vote but wish the veto would have succeeded.
Again, you ain't seen nothing yet
Joel,
They, the right, aren't 'giving' anything to McCain, they are succumbing to their betters, namely, the moderates within the party. McCain is repudiated by the right, and you darned well know it.
Some nutcase going after a Democratic Senator is hardly the same as 6 people being stripped of positions for voting their concience.
See the difference?
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