Least sororities dont rape anyone.
Holy shit. This is one of those (few) times when I'm just speechless! How can people be so horrible?!
It might do some of the ejected women a favor, by shocking them to look at the mentality behind the Greek system and leaving it behind.
The frat and sorority system is for insecure people who know they couldn't fend for themselves socially at college. All the interesting people are on the "outside."
So those girls who got the boot are lucky. I never bothered to pledge, and I don't have any friends who did either.
Do away with frats and sororities, I say.
Least sororities dont rape anyone.
Physically? Not a common crime by women. Emotionally? Psychologically? Socially? I don't think they're all so innocent.
Holy shit. This is one of those (few) times when I'm just speechless! How can people be so horrible?!
I'm not sure if I adore your innocence, or pity your naivete. Both, perhaps.
Are the soroities to blame? They are losing membership. Why? Because they are perceived as fat and ugly. No one wants to be part of the fat and ugly group. So they do not join. Oh, it might do all that other nice stuff, but still.
Now it is of course possible to do all those other good and nice things, and be cute and cuddly. So why join join the fat and ugly one?
Isnt Alpha whatever just responding to the desires of our young women? And isnt that the real problem?
btw my wife was in a sorority, and was in no way insecure and unable to fend for herself socially at a University.
And her sorority got labelled the 'fat' sorority, lost membership, and the chapter was closed down.
Physically? Not a common crime by women. Emotionally? Psychologically? Socially? I don't think they're all so innocent.
Give me a break. If you dont see the difference, someone needs to bend you over, and let you experience a real rape first hand.
Rejection because you are fat, ugly or whatever, aint in the same category. It demeans rape victims to do so.
Give me a break. If you dont see the difference, someone needs to bend you over, and let you experience a real rape first hand.
Don't assume you know a goddamn thing about a person because you've seen what they post online. You have no idea what I've experienced in my life. Also, don't throw out "you need to get raped!" quite so casually. It makes you sound like even more of a heartless bitch than those sorority girls. And I'm hoping that isn't the case.
Emotionally? Psychologically? Socially? I don't think they're all so innocent.
And how in the Nine Hells did you get, "It's the same thing as rape!" from that? If you don't understand a post, please ask for clarification. Maybe this way we can work to keep knee-jerk reactions to a minimum (and I am not presuming innocence in that for my own person). Just for clarity, this can be restated as, "I don't think they are so innocent of doing emotional/psychological/social harm." Which seems quite obvious given the topic at hand.
Isnt Alpha whatever just responding to the desires of our young women? And isnt that the real problem?
It's pretty obvious we can put the blame on society's shoulders, as we can with many things, but that does not somehow eliminate their role, or eliminate responsibility for their actions. I think collectively and individually we could all use an overhaul in how we treat persons, and how we gauge their worth. If anyone comes up with a solution for this, please let me know. I'm totally on board.
The original comment was that at least sororities do not rape people. Your reply was that women are not so innocent, that they abuse people psychologically. But that is not the same thing, not in the same category, so comparing the two is not helpful. The original comment still seems harsh, but true.
The response did not assume anything about you. It noted that if you do not understand that, then being sexually abused would teach you the very important distinction. I suspect(ed) that you do undertand the difference.
I do think that men thinking about being raped is actually a helpful lesson. Men always seem to think of rape from the perspective of the perpetrator, not the victim. They think of sexual harrassment in the same way. That is why some can say about rape victims, that they should just lie back and enjoy it, since they cannot stop it (a politician running for Gov. in Texas actually did make that claim.)
That being said, from all your posts, I suspect you are a caring male that is not part of the problem, but part of the solution. I did not mean to imply otherwise, or set the tone in a knee-jerk reactionary manner.
Sue
1. I wasn't attempting to compare the two. I hopefully clarified that with my previous post.
2. Thinking about getting raped was not your statement.
3. I remember said governor. In my defense, I am not a Texan.
4. Hopefully I am part of the solution. I have my doubts that such things will ever be solved, but here's hoping, eh?
2a: If you dont see the difference, someone needs to bend you over, and let you experience a real rape first hand.
That was stated a bit more brutally than, "Here's a nice thought experiment." Since you didn't desire to set that tone, however, I'll just amend the previous to your most recent post.
PS- Thanks for being mature about this.
I didnt say it wasnt brutal. But since it will not happen, it was of course a thought experiment. I put it that way to make the thought experiment all the more potent. It was certainly not my intention to wish it upon anyone... ever.
Here is a cool article about the issue.
In addition to evicting fat women, the national office of the sorority also evicted non-caucasian women. Basically, everyone who was not white and attractive.
At least ( there weren't many people left after the evictions ) two members who could have stayed left in protest.
The evictions took place a week before exams and the University is thinking about asking the sorority to leave:
http://www.nbc4.com/news/1112635...350/
detail.html
In the article above the national office of the sorority actually had the gall to say that the evictions were not racist.
Yet another article and more facts:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/
2...in2519872.shtml
The president of the sorority was booted out. 2/3 of the members were booted and 6 lleft in protest.
The faculty signed a petition in protest.
Alumni have even been protesting
As for the arguments you'll hear, DePauw is a school of 2400 students (I'm an alum) so the "big college argument doesn't apply. Check out the facebook group, "Sisters of Substance," that the ousted members started. The discussion started out productive, but defensive sorority women have swarmed the site and you can seem them browbeating the women into backing down. Sad sight.
Wow, never have I seen so many "liberal-minded" people revert so quickly to mindless stereotyping. As a current DePauw student - and yes, member of a sorority - I can easily say that no one who has yet posted a comment on this issue at this site has a clue what they're talking about.
What DZ nationals did was horrible. I have a number of friends who were among those asked or one of the 6 (not 2) who left the house despite being invited to remain. These women have faced not only the horrible stress of being told they cannot be active members of the sorority to which they gave their hearts, but also now media attention that is turning inaccurate. This was not motivated by race - it was motivated by image (which is, of course, bad enough, but not sensational enough for major news outlets.) And Greek life at DePauw is such that sisterhood exists even among those who are overweight, nerdy, and ethnic. If you wanted to see a chapter that overturned any idea of the sorority girl as a designer-clothes weariny vacuous skinny blonde chick, there are several on this campus, even after DZ closing, that fit the bill. Please don't blame Greek life for the horrendous acts of one organization's nationals. If any of you had experienced sister (or brother)hood the way myself and thousands of other students have, you wouldn't be so quick to leap to the stereotypes or so gleeful at jumping on this story.
This was not motivated by race - it was motivated by image (which is, of course, bad enough, but not sensational enough for major news outlets.)
Lauren, I am not being sarcastic as I write this. All of the women booted out of the sorority who were not overweight were non-caucasian.
How would you add up when the national office of that sorority and you yourself say it was about "image"?
If those non-white women were not overweight, then what was wrong with their
"image"?
So the question arises: is image really a good way to gauge a member's worth or importance, regardless of what "image" may be desired?
Lauren? Any response? This isn't an attack. It's an honest question.
Uh, isn't "race" (when it is equated with skin color) all about "image?"
Justin K--
Thanks for the heads up on the Facebook group and the size of DePauw. I don't know why I thought it was a much bigger school.
--Aspazia
Lauren--
This was not motivated by race - it was motivated by image (which is, of course, bad enough, but not sensational enough for major news outlets.)
I guess I don't see the distinction that you are drawing here. What counts as conventionally beautiful is unquestionably "white." Take a look at the beauty industry. If women of color are considered beautiful, it is because they look like white women.
Watch this video to get an idea of what I am talking about.
Of course I don't believe that kicking women out of a sorority because of image is acceptable. I said that quite plainly in my original post. I have a number of friends who were asked to leave, and I myself don't look like the kind of person who you would peg as a "sorority girl."
I thought I made it quite clear that in my opinion, what DZ nationals did was brutal and wrong and incredibly hurtful. However, the fact remains that the women of DZ themselves feel their words have been taken out of context and twisted to be made more sensational. You mentioned the facebook group - read the postings. The media has twisted this story to be incredibly hurtful to their sisters remaining in the sorority and to the Greek system in general. All I ask is that you not believe everything at face value and not revert to superficial stereotyping in demonizing the Greek system as a whole, because it is, in fact, an empowering institution for many women, as well as for those women who were DZs here before this heinous action on the part of their nationals.
Lauren:
Understood. But that doesn't answer my question, so I'll allow that it stands.
Lauren already answered your question: her response was 'no.'
Of course I don't believe that kicking women out of a sorority because of image is acceptable.
Your question was if image is a good way of gauging a members worth. Her response is a clear no.
Just being the ref.
I do want to stick my head into this conversation, even though I am a little scared of being the person who makes the arguments that the author of the blog warned about. However, I attend a small liberal arts college with about 1,000 students and there are three sororities. Not only do all three sororities get along (within reason: there are some rivalries), but we do not haze, we do not drink or bring alcohol into our house, there are no events that we host that we allow alcohol at. In general, we aren't the stereotypical sorority. I have brown hair, bad acne, and am at least forty pounds overweight. My sorority has helped me to feel like I am worth something, in addition to helping me achieve several leadership positions on campus.
The sorority nationals in questions were horrible, yes. This is exactly the reason why there are stereotypes: because of real life issues like this. But I would like to fight the idea that every sorority is like this, especially when the author of the blog seems so adamant to condemn all Greek Life.
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