⁂Asterism - astral thinking...
Ditto. The general also said Marines had become "indifferent to the loss of human life".
But its no secret there are rumblings in the US military. The military of today is a far cry of the military of 50 years ago.
It is also no secret recruitment has been desperate so they have been letting rabble and vagabonds into the military.
Also, members of gangs, and don't forget the so-called Green Card soldiers who don't mind a few massacres here and there for citizenship.
But also, let's not forget the origins of the US military. Glorious campaigns at Wounded Knee, against the Apache. Who introduced the idea of war trophies (AKA scalping)?
Further insult is how Blair and Bush stood up together today and called on the world to support the Iraqi government.
Why don't we support the Iraqi people first? The Iraqi government have scores of militia and us military protection.
The Iraqis have only their faith.
Despicable, but expected.
Thanks, Salaam.
"The way they are being deployed by the American government is making them no better than Zarqawi or the Badr militia."
Are you trying to say the stupidest thing possible? If so, you are succeeding.
No I think "Being tortured with electric drills and murdered is the Price Of Freedom" would be the stupidest thing to say.
Saying that US troops are terrorists is actually quite an interesting thing to day. Wrong of course: US troops get paid more for their attrocities.
Original Jeff, Leave your preconceptions at the door and try and read what I wrote. If Zarqawi and the Badr militia could rule by throwing flowers at people they probably would. But having no legitimacy, they end up fighting, terrorizing and murdering to be able to stay where they want and drive through the streets unharrassed.
The Americans in Iraq have no goal. As Rumsfeld said, if there is a civil war the US Army is not going to try and stop it. Keeping Iraqis safe and warm has long ago dropped off their agenda. So all there is left is to defend their right to stay where they want and drive through the streets of Iraq unharrassed. How does that make them better than or different to the militias and terrorists?
Frankly, Senator Murtha and some people in the American Army have understood this and they are pissed that their army is being used in this way. Why dont you devote your energies to getting America to have a policy that is remotely realistic actually means something good can be done?
Salaam, well said, bro, well said.
But just one modification, the US army in Iraq is there to oppose any force which seeks to keep Iraq united and 'help' those who would soon carve it up.
By the end of 2006, expect the Kurds to move further towards carving a big piece for themselves.
There is already ethnic cleansing of Assyrian and Turkmen villages in the north of Iraq, but shhhh, the Kurds are US allies.
"It is a sad reflection...The way they are being deployed by the American government is making them no better than Zarqawi or the Badr militia."
What would you rather have, a general who tells them to behead people and make videos?
The real sad reflection, is you. You are an Iraqi who has lived all his life in a western country. Why? because there is not one single solitary country in the middle east that does not have a government that is at best a pathetic joke, except for Israel. Perhaps, instead of whining from the safety of your computer, you should take your sorry ass back to Iraq and see if you can do something positive in your homeland.
"A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself".
That quote ain't from the Quran; maybe that is why Iraq is mess, and you are where you are.
Mr.K you wrote
"What would you rather have, a general who tells them to behead people and make videos? "
Is that he only options you see in life. Either shoot by a weapon in the head or behead? Says a lot about your mentality.
Nadia:
your comment says more about your own mentality; apparently your reading comprehension is weak. The american general told his men not to shoot civilians at all, even if it puts the soldiers/marines at risk.
I am not talking about the general K. I am talking about you.
Nadia: go look up hyperbole in your dictionary.
Then if Iraq is your country, go back to it and do what you think is needed to make the americans leave.
Mr. K
You really dont want to get what I said. You read 'Zarqawi' and 'US soldiers' in the same sentence and all reason goes out of the window. To answer your question - I would rather have politicians not to put their soldiers in that position.
What happened in Haditha - where 24 civilians were massacred by Marines on the rampage - is the thin end of the wedge and General Hagee knows it. I read Iraqi blogs every week and I can see how even pro-American Iraqis have turned against the US Army.
How the hell do think this looks internationally? Why dont you save your insults for an administration that is dragging the reputaion of your country through the mud?
Salam Adil, do you hear the clapping?
It's for you my friend. Well said, yet again.
I too have noticed this trend you refer to. I wonder how long it will be before all Iraqis take arms against a sea of troubles (US occupation) and by opposing, end them (occupation).
Mr K
I just wish you could understand that the time is over for Michael Hagee or anyone else to teaching US soldier not to shoot innocent people. They have commited too many war crimes against Iraqis and done too much damage and must leave.
Salam:
It is you who misses my point, which is, stop whining and go back to Iraq and do something about it. But no, instead, you prefer apparently to enjoy the freedoms of the western world, which no doubt includes a lucrative job.
I don't want our marines and soldiers in Iraq. The Iraqi people deserved Saddam. As I stated above, there are no truly free countries in the arab world, or in the muslim world for that matter. So often I hear the complaint that the strife is the product of British or American imperialism/colonialism. But how much is the direct result of Arab imperialism/colonialism inflicted on the world when the deluded arab megalomaniac contrived the "religion of peace"? Or is it rather, a horrid, mysoginistic political ideology?
No, you and your pathetic countrymen in Iraq do not deserve the sacrifice by our best young people, or the expenditure of our nations treasury. You, personally and collectively, are incapable of doing anything to help yourselves be free.
Mr. K, you seem to know very little about colonialism and its effects. But that I will not go into.
I don't see US soldiers actions in Iraq for having anything to do with what is best for Iraqis anylonger.
You have ended up in a corner were most of the world are against your armies actions in Iraq.
If you want to put blame do it on your president who took you to war based on lies. Put the blame on those who voted for him once again even though he is a lier.
Are you too scared to blame Bush? That somehow you will be seen as a traitor? Or do you feel shame for supporting the war and now seeing how an outcome is when things are based on lies? What ever it is, it was your nations own fault for going to a war based on lies and then topping it off with torture and war crimes.
Work on getting the troops out now.
Nadia:
I know a great deal about colonialism and it effects. Yes, the Bush administration lies: it repeatedly states that "Islam has been hijacked". It is complete crap. And yes, they also played up the WMD line to garner popular support for the invasion...which in reality was a last ditch effort to avoid having to hurl nuclear missiles into the region.
If Iraqis do not take charge of their own destiny, I think it will happen anyway.
But go ahead, just continue believing that the pathetic state of the entire middle east and the whole muslim world is some else's fault - the USA, the Brits, or my favorite -those damn joooooos. And complain about it all while enjoying the freedoms, wealth, and education that the western world provides you.
Again, the sad reflection that you and Salam refuse to see is the one that looks back from your own mirror.
Mr. K
When Rice said the US administrations had supported stability instead democracy in the Middle East for the last 60 years how do you think that was made?
>But go ahead, just continue believing that the pathetic state of the entire middle east and the whole muslim world is some else's fault - the USA, the Brits, or my favorite -those damn joooooos
Mr. K Can you also please provide me where you read me saying that the problems in the Middle East are ALL someone else's fault?
Nadia:
true, you do not ascribe blame to others verbatim. But consider the fact that you have tried and convicted Marines who have yet to even be charged...did you also rush to streets to burn the US flag when the Koran was supposedly flushed?
Like Salam, I stay in direct contact with people in Iraq - Marines in Anbar, and contractors in Bagdad.
From the contractor in Bagdad, who is working on the reconstruction, I hear that most of the Iraqi contractors he must work with are at best inept, or are both corrupt and inept. Add to that: you get shot at by the people you are trying to help.
From the marines, I understand that the reaction of people varies - from smiles and tea to bullets.
Maybe they did shoot those people. Who knows? But what about the ambulances that get rigged as bombs, men waving white flags only to spring an ambush, bodies mutilated, with full knowledge and cooperation of many of the local populace.
But what are the "insurgents", "rebels" or whatever you want to call them fighting for? For the good ole days of Saddam, for 7th Century Islamic rule, NOT for freedom, liberty, and equality for all people in Iraq.
The USA is risking its best and brightest, and spending billions everyday, and for what?
I see no hope. There is a chance for a glimmer of liberty in the middle east, and there are few souls who really seem to appreciate it.
I am not going to engage in any more of this. It is a waste of time.
Mr. K the best thing you can do is working in getting the US troops out of Iraq. Get them home to you.
When there ask these men and women who you say are the "best and brightest" why the hell did they choose a job where you are asked to kill people?
Mr. K, I did not miss your point. You are just mudslinging. Whther I am sitting comfortably in London or dodging bullets Iraq in has nothing to do with the conduct of the Marines or the politicians that put them there.
George W. Bush and co. have effectively dragged your national reputation and an army of which you are rightly proud of down to the level of common terrorists. And saying this grates with any patriotic American.
But it not me you should be angry with. Frankly, I do not relish the prospect of a humliating defeat for America in Iraq. The consequences for Iraq would be even worse. What I do want to see is some orderly end to the crisis but your political leaders need to do their part and I do not see that happening.
Dang, I missed all this, but not much I can add. Nadia and Salam, what a team.
Oh yeah, Iraqi team.
Says it all ...
Maybe I need to spell it out more clearly. You cannot blame the USA for propping up dictatorships in the Middle East and then whine we it takes one out. You can't have it both ways Salam.
And its not mudslinging if its true. US Soldiers and Marines have liberated Iraq, and it is a damn mess. But all you do is complain; you don't have the balls to fight for the freedom of your own country.
Nadia: the best and brightest joined to defend freedom. You would never understand that..best, brightest, and free, does not apply to you, and never will.
Mr. K US soldiers and Marines are occuping Iraq.
Mr. K you should read this:
Iraq, where now, how did we get here, and hypocrisy.
http://truth-about-iraqis.blogsp...-
and.html#links
Thanks, just read it, and it is bullshit.
You and whoever wrote that blog don't stand for anything.
Just answer this, what do you want for Iraq?
a) Saddam, or some new incarnation;
b) The Islamists
c) a government chosen by the Iraqi people.
One point about about Saudi Arabia - the USA should have backed Saddam and helped him overrun Saudi Arabia.
In my opinion, the fucking arabs deserve Saddam, or his ilk. It is all you have had, in one form or another, for your entire existence as a people, whether they were "backed" by the USA, Britain, the Turks, and when they were governed by the arab caliphs going back to Mohammed.
The other blogger is right about freedom. Arabs do not crave it, they just exist to bellyache, blame the jews, and explode themselves.
K why are you so obsessed with blaming the Jews?
Can you provide us where you have read an Iraqi blog talking about its all the Jews fault? I await your links so we can see were you should direct your views.
"the fucking arabs" ... "for your entire existence as a people"
Now, now, Mr. K, your racist colors are showing. What happened to the decorum of earlier commentary?
Scratch a lil deeper and a white-hooded pundit comes out?
Tsk, tsk. You just rendered your arguments null and voice because your xenophobic, islamophobic, ethnocentric lustre has shined.
Why can't there be general debate without the infantile cussing and racism?
Such a letdown.
Funny - I never mentioned Jews once on my blog - maybe us Arabs all look the same to you? Anyway to help you understand what I am saying, here is a link to an American blogger who is well-connected to the military that is saying basically the same thing as I did...
Early Warning
Stupid quick tying voice=void. My ooops.
Actually, Salam, Arkin seems to have gotten his timeline mixed up.
He says One Marine lance corporal was killed in the attack.
Evidently in retaliation, but certainly in defense, the Marines opened fire, shooing and killing civilian bystanders in a taxi and two nearby homes. Some two dozen civilians have been reported as being killed that day.
According to MSNBC investigative reporting the shooting up of the taxi and its occupants happened AFTER the Marines first engaged in murders in two homes.
Witnesses say Marines then moves to a third location — a taxi parked by the side of the road. In it, residents say, were four university students and a driver. A witness watching from a nearby rooftop says Marines took the five men out of the car and executed them.
One witness says the driver screamed in English, “Please, please!” but they shot him in the body.
Therefore, we cannot say "certainly in defense".
By the way, ABC's Nightline reported that some pictures taken by the US military of the Haditha massacres were erased but have been recovered by investigators.
Two of the pictures. Nightline says, show that women were shot while trying to shield their babies.
Nadia:
I am not obsessed with Jews. Why did the leader of your country fire missiles at them in 1991?
Why did you invade Kuwait? We would not be having this conversation if not for that...so perhaps I assumed, that since you acknowledge no responsibility for the plight of your country now, that you were on board with the ideals of your supreme leader in 1991.
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