This is outrageous! everything should be open to criticism and debate. Muslim countries demand too much respect and never give any. Even to their own citizens.
I did some research but couldn't find anything... Do you ever hear of "honor" killings in non-Muslim cultures??
Sabrina, i heard this on the Howard Stern show new yesterday. Im not sure if it would qualify as a true "honor killing" though.
http://ap.google.com/article/
ALe...XgpLTAD91BEP281
What's not to criticise next?
I support this ban to make people unable to criticize the islam religion. While people should be able to criticize whatever they choose to without punishment, it should not be criticized in the forum of human rights. Human rights violations and Religions should not be tied together. The danger here is that if they criticize people that are of a faith, then people would assume that the religion is at fault and this is the problem.
Muslims shouldn't be linked to human rights violations, because there are millions that believe in Islam and do not violate human rights. In addition to say that muslims are responsible for things only is a misconception. People have been a frenzy about the Islam religion since 9/11 and its unfair to many americans that are islamic. Its a religion just like the rest.
People should be focused more on people than religion. Take christianity for example, there are so many different variations of it that to call someone christian is almost a misnomer thinking that it applies to a group, because while they all believe in christ there variations are as diverse as possible after that.
basically people should live their lives without discrimination and prejudice and this action by the UN is a step in the right direction.
What about the right for women to be considered equal? to not be genitally mutilated or killed? Not wear a tent if they wish? They can't even drive in Saudi Arabia!
Why don't these countries give rights to their own citizens (including non-muslims) before they ask for so much?
Fucking animals....we're hostages to these barbarians only for the sake of cheaper oil....
"Human rights violations and Religions should not be tied together."
They are already tied together. Many of the laws that violate human rights in Islamic countries come from the states' official religion. The human right violations that are tied to religion include the second class status of women and non-Muslims, and the executions of homosexuals and apostates.
"People should be focused more on people than religion."
People can focus on anything they please as much as they want.
"Muslims shouldn't be linked to human rights violations, because there are millions that believe in Islam and do not violate human rights."
That there exist Muslims who do not violate human rights does not mean that all Muslims do not violate human rights. If a Muslim commits a human right violation then he/she should "be linked to human rights violations".
"Its a religion just like the rest."
Although it is a religion, it is not just like the rest. What separates it from the rest is that it is the religion that is currently doing more harm to the world than any other religion.
BUUUUUULLSHIIIIIIIIIIIT!
HUMANS SHOVEL SO MUCH BULLSHIT IT"S NOT EVEN FUNNY.
strap yourselves in kids, we've got one hell of a long uphill ride ahead of us over the next century. also, can we please stop lying to each other about the nature of dangerous deranged religious fundamentalism.... please? Let's stop the bullshit about pretending that 'well you know, all religions are the same, a fundamentalist in one religion is just as bad as one in another religion'. No, they're not all the same. The delightful compulsion to detonate one's self in crowded markets is a very particular and very disturbingly common feature of one religion right now. Islam.
Honor killings.... murder by any other name is still murder.
Look how much divisive religion is. Christians, Muslims, Jews and all the rest. It's all a lie people. I feel like I'm surrounded by pschopaths. OPEN YOUR FUCKING EYES! RELIGION IS RIDICULOUS! Haven't we come far enough as humans to realize this yet. Goddamn I'm so frustrated.
Honor killings in other cultures - I can think of three off of the top of my head: harikari (suicide by sword - Japan), kind of similar to the idea behind kamakazi pilots, and sati (India - women burning themselves or being burnt on the funeral pyres of their husband). Im sure there are more, as I am no anthropologist. Many different traditions are abhorrent to people from outside cultures. That's the whole trick of a human rights debate - how can one establish a "baseline" that will respect all cultures equally (isn't that the gist of the reason for discussing human rights to begin with?) without allowing one culture to dominate the conversation - at which point it is no longer a discussion but essentially culural imperialism.
The thing to remember is that not all women who are Islamic are oppressed; and not all women who others might consider oppressed from a western view want things changed. The issue at hand is whether it is appropriate or even possible to seperate Islam, as a religion, from the traditions and acts which are abhorrent to most traditional human rights thought. In my mind, it is indeed possible specifically because there are many different variations of Islamic practice. If they wanted to discuss certain more dogmatic sects of Islam, it might be possible with the caveat that the discussion does not apply to the whole religion; but given that it is an high visibility conference and the media loves to boil down everything to the lcd and there are many many topics to discuss, discussion about religion specifically might not be helpful. Anything that is said is likely to be misinterpreted (thanks to the media) and applied to the whole religion, and people who practic Islam will feel singled out - which is not the point of such talks, and would be counter productive.
Anon, both examples of "honor killings" you cite (three? I counted two) are suicides. While suicide is egregious for the pain it causes others, it's not on the same scale as murder.
As proof that western society shares my sensibility, here, I cite the fact that attempted suicide is met with compassion, but attempted murder is met with prison time.
It's not westerners that label "Islamic" suicide bomber/murderers, female genital mutilation, official androgyny, and ritual murder of disenfranchised. The people and societies which do these things are only too quick to label themselves Islamic. We're just following along. If "moderate Muslims", if there is such a thing, would rise up with one voice and decry all the dark-age behavior and traditions, we westerners might believe that Islam is not responsible for the atrocities.
Instead, what we see is everyday Muslims rise up and do more violence in the name of "The Religion of Peace" whenever they think someone is criticizing their religion, or perhaps whenever their religious leaders tell them to.
Islam, if it's to be respected as a modern benign religion, needs to grow up and take responsibility for its extremists, and control them. Prove to the rest of the world that it's really peaceful, because so far, it's not what the non-Muslim world is seeing.
""moderate Muslims", if there is such a thing,"
DaveS, there do exist moderate Muslims, just look at Turkey as an example.
Do not forget that since Islam is a made-up religion, Muslims can (and do) believe whatever they want and still call it Islam. Some Muslims hold a violent set of beliefs and call that Islam while other Muslims hold a non-violent set of beliefs and call that Islam.
This is analogous to Christianity where some Christians hold a violent set of beliefs and call that Christianity while other Christians hold a non-violent set of beliefs and call that Christianity.
All religions are made up and this shows in the great variety of beliefs within supposedly unique religions e.g. Judaism, Christianity, Islam. Although many groups of people will claim to have the same religion, if you question them then you will find that it is the same only in name and that they all differ in their religious beliefs in some way. So when talking about a religion you cannot separate a religion from its follower.
"Moderate" for me means a cherry picker or someone that doesn't follow the religion correctly. Islam however, when followed correctly, is much worse than any other faith in my opinion.
to be honest with you, I agree with he line that scholars should be allowed to talk about faith. I hope by scholars they mean those who have been educated in unbiased institutions and told the truth about faith...that is is personal and cannot be factual. I am tired of hearing people in faith up to thier eyeballs telling me to watch my back.
Farhad:
What about the right for women to be considered equal? to not be genitally mutilated or killed? Not wear a tent if they wish? They can't even drive in Saudi Arabia!
Why don't these countries give rights to their own citizens (including non-muslims) before they ask for so much?
Let's not forget how they treat gays, when the president of Iran said they have no gays in Iran it sent a chill down my spine.
|""moderate Muslims", if there is such a thing,"
|DaveS, there do exist moderate Muslims, just look at Turkey as an example.
Turkey? Are you being ironic?
Turkey IS the most moderate Islamic state, probably, but still...
http://www.americanthinker.com/
2...lamist_vio.html
What a joke!! This ban is itself a "human rights" violation.
"Turkey? Are you being ironic?
Turkey IS the most moderate Islamic state, probably, but still...
http://www.americanthinker.com/ 2...lamist_vio.html"
I'm being quite serious. And I hope that you weren't trying to point to that instance of fundamentalism fifteen years ago as evidence that this is the norm in Turkey. It is not the norm.
Simply finding examples of fundamentalism is not enough to show that the entire nation is fundamentalist. Since if that was so then one could point to instances of fundamentalism in the USA (just look to this very site for examples) and then claim that the USA was fundamentalist, which we all know it is not.
In fact, considering that the Turkish military overthrows those leaders that are fundamentalists while the US military welcomes those leaders that are fundamentalists, I would say that Turkey's government is more inclined towards religious moderation than the USA's government, despite Turkey being governed by Muslims.
Diagoras, While i might agree with some of the stuff you said, I'd like to point out something.. As an ex-Muslim and someone who lived in 3 different Muslim countries for more than 28 years I am very convinced that the huge majority of Muslims are not as "moderate" as many people in the west think, or maybe like to think.
I don't suppose Islam can be criticized for promoting the ban on criticizing Islam. How soon will it be until we don't have the right to speak out against Islam's chronic demands to curb freedom of speech?
Thank you for that information Farhad.
Sad days in the world when cant openly discuss or critique any thing or any religion.
A cultural war is upon us. Wake up people - for it wont be long before your on your knees praying 5x a day
HAHAHAHA Stupid Jews, In their screeching attempts to destroy western civilization by promoting anti hate, Diversity, Multikults ie Anti Freedom legislation they have unwittingly created a Frankenstein monster they will NEVER control.
Now they truly do have to treat the Muslim world on equal terms Oy Vey what's a Joo too Do!!
So it'll be OK for Muslims to bitch about Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddists, etc?
Love the biased equality UN! A real positive step forward.
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