Enough!
aangus: This space for hire! |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 8:36 am | #
well, DUH!
david gregory would make a brilliant frankenstein monster with those eyebrows, for him i have but 2 words:
freedom fries
that's right, the whole nasty anti-french episode was because THEY were against the iraq war. if the freedom fries episode of history does not denote propaganda and media rolling over, i dunno what does
mogwai |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 8:40 am | #
The stories are only BEGINNING to be written about the media's failure on Iraq.
I think that the media ignores the plight of 4 million displaced Iraqis is evidence of continuing failure.
tubino |
05.31.08 - 8:41 am | #
Ask anyone how many Iraqi civilians have died as a result of the invasion.
Why is this a question that can't be asked or answered in the MSM?
tubino |
05.31.08 - 8:42 am | #
NBC's David Gregory, for example, said McClellan "also writes in the book that he think that the so-called liberal media got it wrong and was not hard enough on the administration about the war. You know, I don't know where he gets that idea. I don't know where other people get that idea."
You're not a journalist, Gregory. You're KKKarl's twinkletoed dancing partner.
Lime Rickey |
05.31.08 - 8:42 am | #
I don't watch corporate media, but isn't it, "thou doth protest too much" concerning Gregory. Isn't he just burnt on this one?
camelot, Go Pens |
05.31.08 - 8:45 am | #
Media is a part of democracy. How we can sanction them is prolly only found here in the blogosphere's truthiness. Speaking truth to power forevah.
Nancy Willing |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 8:50 am | #
Isn't he just burnt on this one?
camelot, Go Pens
*
FUCK YES. Keeping up the heat on Dick is going to be rather fun.
Nancy Willing |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 8:51 am | #
oops, his name is David, sorry, he is always a dick to me.
Nancy Willing |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 8:52 am | #
It's such a beautiful morning here in Chicago, and here I am thinking about how I'd like to put my foot up David Gregory's ass.
It shouldn't oughta be this way.
Luigi Vuoto |
05.31.08 - 8:53 am | #
But the authors of the report cautioned that crop prices may be more volatile because of less predictable weather patterns, speculators in agricultural futures markets and low levels of stockpiles of grains.
weather? ohh that's a convenient scapegoat, but it's yet another propagandistic lie
no NYT, the word SPECULATOR combined with the agri-industry's realization that more profit comes from higher demand which comes from small stockpiles...is THE main reason that food prices have spiked the last year; it's almost like a switch was flipped, ohh right wall street took all it's money out of real estate and has been pumping it into commodities, and yet our liberal media doesn't have the balls or the ability to make the connection
mogwai |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 8:54 am | #
oops, his name is David, sorry, he is always a dick to me.
Nancy Willing
Seems like 2002 around here with such light posting.
billy b |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 8:54 am | #
I'm sorry, I don't know why haloscan changed my name. I'm the one who wants to place his size 11 Skecher up Gregory's patoutie.
PopeRatzo |
05.31.08 - 8:55 am | #
Congressionally mandated report on climate change released only because of court order four years late.
http://www.newshoggers.com/blog/...years-
late.html For those who do wade through the document, they will find that it is the opinion of the combined departments of the Bush administration that manmade global warming is real, that it isn't caused by the sun warming up, and that it's a massive threat to the national interest.
• A need for billions of dollars in more power plants (one major cause of global warming gases) to cool a hotter country. The report says summer cooling will mean Seattle's energy consumption would increase by 146 percent with the warming that could come by the end of the century.
• More death and damage from wildfires, hurricanes and other natural disasters and extreme weather. In the last three decades, wildfire season in the West has increased by 78 days.
• Increased insect infestations and food- and waterborne microbes and diseases. Insect and pathogen outbreaks to the forests are causing $1.5 billion in annual losses.
And the Bush administration sat on this report on a clear and present danger to national interests and national security for four years while they played "American Raj" in the Middle East.
Gimlet |
05.31.08 - 8:55 am | #
Well, the weather's been nice, and Atrios is moving, no? I understand light posting. Plenty of folks have keys if the threads get too long.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 8:56 am | #
Gregory should really look into updating that oh-so-hip 1990 hairdo, as well.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 8:57 am | #
I have Maddow in my ear, thanks Avedon!
Nancy Willing |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 8:57 am | #
It's such a beautiful morning here in Chicago, and here I am thinking about how I'd like to put my foot up David Gregory's ass.
heh.
Sadly, Gregory was one of the few that asked any questions that might have been considered 'probing'.
billy b |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 8:58 am | #
THE main reason that food prices have spiked the last year; it's almost like a switch was flipped, ohh right wall street took all it's money out of real estate and has been pumping it into commodities
mogwai
Not sure I understand the rationale behind artificially inflating food prices.
It is not a fixed resource. Farmers can increase supply with the next crop cycle.
Gimlet |
05.31.08 - 8:59 am | #
he probed so nicely they asked him to the dance1
Nancy Willing |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 8:59 am | #
I would have keys, but Atrios is part of the anti-lutefisk conspiracy, and he knows I would front page a bunch of delicious recipes.
trifecta |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 8:59 am | #
There are delicious lutefisk recipes? Who knew?
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:01 am | #
This entire pre-election season has left me thinking long and hard. There is much to be done, and I fear for the next president, that has so much work in cleaning up.
On my part, I need to decide if I focus on one issue or try to split my interests.
*VA hosp-TBIs
*feminism
*poverty
*education
This summer I will work on get out the vote---increasing voter registration will hopefully be the counter balance to Republicans stealing elections.
camelot, Go Pens |
05.31.08 - 9:01 am | #
I have a million things to do, sigh, better run soon.
Nancy Willing |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:01 am | #
There are delicious lutefisk recipes? Who knew?
Molly Ivors
They are being surpressed by the man.
But I have said too much. The lutefisk denial crowd is very powerful.
trifecta |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:02 am | #
camelot,
You might like my post this morning, at the homepage. Others will not, and I won't blogwhore it any more.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:03 am | #
delicious lutefisk
One of these words does not belong with the other.
Toonscribe |
05.31.08 - 9:03 am | #
Not sure I understand the rationale behind artificially inflating food prices.
profit? do some research and see how farmers are in the gold nowadays. i have nothing against family farmers doing well. but i dunno, around 80% of farmland is owned by a few megalo-corporations which trade on wall street
mogwai |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:04 am | #
We have a VA hospital crisis due to mal-practice insurance. We are shipping Vets out of state for operations that our staff can't perform. Can't get specialists to stay.
Nancy Willing |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:04 am | #
If today's moving day, I hope there's enough caulk.
GWPDA, yclept Irate Historian |
05.31.08 - 9:04 am | #
I KNEW it!!!
It really was all Bill Clinton's fault!!!!!
Culture of TrÜth |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:04 am | #
I like your post too, Molly. I've even started going to WF in the morning before I stop here.
PopeRatzo |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:05 am | #
McStain doesn't even know how many troops we have in Iraq. Why does this old fossil have the nerve to run for prez?
Lime Rickey |
05.31.08 - 9:05 am | #
profit? do some research and see how farmers are in the gold nowadays. i have nothing against family farmers doing well.
mogwai
But next cycle when the surplus can't be sold?
Gimlet |
05.31.08 - 9:06 am | #
If today's moving day, I hope there's enough caulk.
You can never have enough caulk.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:06 am | #
billy b,
Gregory might have asked a "probing" question, but he sure sat down and shut up fast when the administration gave a non-answer.
It's his ugly backshoveling over the miserable failure of the bulk of his profession that has be exercised.
Also, he seems like the type that would have asked a "probing" question in order to get his face on TV an extra few times.
PopeRatzo |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:08 am | #
Morning, all
DWD - S☮S |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:08 am | #
I wonder whether I should wash the floors or stain the front porch wicker furniture today.
GWPDA, yclept Irate Historian |
05.31.08 - 9:09 am | #
I liked the post, Molly. I don't agree with it, though.
PopeRatzo |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:09 am | #
McStain: "I wanna take Obama to Iraq so's we can sit at night under the Green Zone stars like Lindsey and I did."
Lime Rickey |
05.31.08 - 9:10 am | #
Good morning.
Speaking of Rachel Maddow she played this clip the other day.
Scott McClellan being asked about Richard Clarke's book (3/22/04):
Q Why do you think he's doing this?
MR. McCLELLAN: Well, why, all of a sudden, if he had all these grave concerns, did he not raise these sooner? This is one-and-a-half years after he left the administration. And now, all of a sudden, he's raising these grave concerns that he claims he had. And I think you have to look at some of the facts. One, he is bringing this up in the heat of a presidential campaign. He has written a book and he certainly wants to go out there and promote that book.
HoneyBearKellyGoGiants |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:10 am | #
I read the post, Molly. It just makes me incredibly sad.
DWD - S☮S |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:11 am | #
I don't expect people to agree, actually. (shrugs)
I know it's not a welcome perspective.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:11 am | #
I commented on it Molly.
Being away from the intertubes for a week was a good thing for me. I spent a week ignoring the news. I felt like a real merkin.
trifecta |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:12 am | #
Thing is, no one wants to talk about it. Not with any kind of distance.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:13 am | #
trifecta,
Me too. Ever since graduation, I've been doing jobs and traveling and talking to people I don't usually get to, and it's been enlightening. This post was for them, not for the blogosphere.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:14 am | #
"Lump spotted on Mars"
NASA's Phoenix lander is at work and one of its cameras, scientist said Friday, has already detected a lump of ice - or maybe only a little Martian rock.
hahahahaahaha...we all want to believe
mogwai |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:14 am | #
Gregory might have asked a "probing" question, but he sure sat down and shut up fast when the administration gave a non-answer.
Il Papa, I agree completely. I only mentioned it because Gregory represented how pitiful the media was on the runup to war. It hasn't gotten any better, either.
Media reporting on the war and the administration reminds me of a press release written by my company's marketing department touting a new product we are going to sell.
billy b |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:15 am | #
Why talk about McBombBomb's gaffes when somebody found a clip of a pastor that once preached before Obama saying something outrageous?
HoneyBearKellyGoGiants |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:15 am | #
But next cycle when the surplus can't be sold?
Gimlet
2 things: short term gain and biofuels; if yer a farmer, you want to plant biofuel corn, not feed corn.
mogwai |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:17 am | #
One of the saddest (for me anyways) things that I keep have to relearn is that the vast majority of the American people tune out news.
Less than 2% of all Americans watch Headline News, CNN, MSNBC, and FOX on most nights.
While we sit around and scream about what O'Reilly said, or what Tweety was doing, we are basically it.
The audience for Hardball is just about the same size as the audience at Daily Kos.
trifecta |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:17 am | #
Molly Ivors
Wow, that post was excellent! You are definitly inside my head. I, too, have sat back a little, not sure I am liking what I see.
I have also been shocked and disappointed at the division among liberals when we need to beware of our 'herding cats' attitudes. Of course I mean the treatment of 'other' among us is reminding me of Republicans.
At times, I get very frustrated that the majority of the electorate is voting without any concern of the issues or voting records, and then, thank God, I read a post like yours and realize I am not the only one.
The feminist 'agenda' seems to be deemed evil, or oh so over, while I think it is in dire need of reinvigoration.
I'm glad to hear that you got to spend time with people who share your view; I'm glad they are out there. Count me as one of them.
camelot, Go Pens |
05.31.08 - 9:18 am | #
Why talk about McBombBomb's gaffes when somebody found a clip of a pastor that once preached before Obama saying something outrageous?
McBombBomb
That's great.
The media coverage of McBombBomb is a perfect example of what I meant.
billy b |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:18 am | #
Why talk about McBombBomb's gaffes when somebody found a clip of a pastor that once preached before Obama saying something outrageous?
HoneyBearKellyGoGiants
This last bit they are featuring: he wasn't even there.
I really don't get this: how in the hell is this man supposed to be responsible for what other people say?
DWD - S☮S |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:18 am | #
Good morning, all. Just dropped Dr Mrs Gromit at the airport. She's off to Seattle for a week-long conference and visit with older son and his gf.
Gromit |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:18 am | #
Molly, good post. You aren't alone in hating on K.O.'s Clinton take down, but I must say that I stand with him.
Nancy Willing |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:19 am | #
Gromit,
So what are we doing this week? Toga party?
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:20 am | #
Activist priest reignites debate
Los Angeles Times - 6 hours ago
Father Michael Pfleger, who mocked Clinton at Obama's church, has a history of stirring controversy.
propaganda anti-Liberal media: we have to report over and over on anything that has controversy for dems; mccain's courting those 2 fascist preachers, bah it was a one day non-story....but this, ohh boy, it's some preacher who backs one candidate and said something about the other - that's a story to propagandize!
mogwai |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:21 am | #
Molly--I want to talk about it. I've seen it here, the shut down of discourse. I feel like I did in the runup to the Iraq invasion when polls showed 95% of the country approved of Bush. Like then, and like you now, I feel like I have to hide my opinions. It hasn't stopped me entirely, but I have disengaged and some of my favorite commenters here have done the same.
But why this really bothers me is this was the sanctuary I found back then. Just for the record, I'm not saying I'm right like I was back in 2002. It's just this used to be a safe place to exchange ideas. What this primary has done is torn the lid off the myth that somehow we were better, capable of self-criticism, less reflexive, more thoughtful, kinder.
noblejoanie |
05.31.08 - 9:21 am | #
You might like my post this morning, at the homepage. Others will not, and I won't blogwhore it any more.
Molly Ivors
But I may never watch Keith Olbermann again.
I'm not a Clinton supporter but I thought it was a great post and so was Digby's. I share the concern and I've never really liked Olbermann. He did some good stuff on Bush back when he first started, but even then I always found his delivery grating.
Libby |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:21 am | #
To no one in particular: leaving aside the merits of the candidates. (And the reasons you may or may not support them - whether you are racist or sexist, I guess - sigh) What I perceive, what I have perceived, and what has not changed is this: this contest was over several months ago and NOTHING was going to change it and NOTHING did.
And whatever else you may say must be measured against that standard. I have heard the arguments and so have merit I suppose. But I would still rather have us together and strong. This is not pleasing.
DWD - S☮S |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:22 am | #
noblejoanie,
I owe it to you. Thanks for the link.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:23 am | #
Gromit,
So what are we doing this week? Toga party?
Molly Ivors
Mebbe. Here's my list for today.
(1) More coffee
(2) Pay bills
(3) Practice piano
(4) Visit mom
(5) See Joshua Redman at Jazz Fest tonight
Gromit |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:23 am | #
Excellent post, Molly. I agree with almost all of it.
Toonscribe |
05.31.08 - 9:24 am | #
Holy crap... this is the first I've heard about that Mike Allen "interview" with Bush. I was out of the country when it happened.
I'm fucking speechless... it reads like some bad parody I might have written.
SteveLG |
05.31.08 - 9:24 am | #
The feminist agenda...can I burn a bra but not a flag? Can I elect a male on principle if the female doesn't cut it for me? Can I speak to peace among nations and a policy of engagement as primary in a candidate for today's challenges?
And still be a feminist?
yeah, I can.
Nancy Willing |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:25 am | #
The contest being over argument is the strongest one for me I think that Obama has.
When it got to the point that Clinton could only win by getting superdelegates to overturn the pledged delegates, the race was effectively over.
Technically that happened last week, but in reality it's been several months since that occured.
There is the argument that in a game, even if you are behind by 40 points, you play until the final whistle. But, who knows.
I always felt disenfranchised in California because of our June primary. I got sick and tired of somebody winning in New Hampshire and Iowa and then being told that with 95% of voters still out there that we could just never mind and get behind the winner. That is such bullshit.
trifecta |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:25 am | #
Gromit,
Nice list! I'm planning on (1) repairing some bad wallpapering (I got 4 double rolls at a rummage sale for $3--I expected some problems), (2) working on building in a wall of existing but freestanding bookcases, and (3) screwing around on the internets.
(3) is already done!
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:25 am | #
Molly I--sent it to you so you could turn your brilliant writing skills loose on it. Thank you.
noblejoanie |
05.31.08 - 9:26 am | #
Dean Barnett:
But President Bush is on the verge of winning the big ones. It will be no small thing if he has shown and mostly secured the path to victory in Iraq and in the war on terror before leaving office. It will drive the left crazy, and, as was the case with Reagan, it will take liberals decades to admit it, but Bush will strut back to Crawford a big winner.
Few remember that Abraham Lincoln spent years running a dreadful war effort presided over by the ineffective likes of George McClellan and Joe Hooker. And those who do remember such things view them charitably, as Lincoln got things right by the end. If President Bush does wind up also having gotten the big things right, something that seems increasingly likely, the enormous successes of his administration will dwarf the failures in history's eyes.
So now Dumbya is Abe Lincoln? In your fucking dreams, pal.
Lincoln tried to unite America, not tear it apart.
Lime Rickey |
05.31.08 - 9:26 am | #
One of the saddest (for me anyways) things that I keep have to relearn is that the vast majority of the American people tune out news.
2 stories:
I overheard a guy talking to a young professional woman and he said Scalia was in town for a book signing and she said "Scalia, who's that?" He said "the Supreme Court Justice." "Oh yeah I guess I've heard of him."
This is less important but I was at work and someone asked if anyone had ever heard the term "jump the shark," and many people had never heard of it. Proof bloggers live in a different world.
Culture of TrÜth |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:26 am | #
Molly, wonderful post. An outstanding example of clear, forceful and respectful disagreement with what seems to be becoming 'mainstream' thought among democrats.
And a good reminder of why I don't watch political stuff on TV.
Gromit |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:27 am | #
Holy crap... this is the first I've heard about that Mike Allen "interview" with Bush. I was out of the country when it happened.
It will drive the left crazy, and, as was the case with Reagan, it will take liberals decades to admit it, but Bush will strut back to Crawford a big winner.
Put down the crack pipe and step away from the computer!
Friends don't let friends write bullshit on drugs.
Supreme Commander Thor |
05.31.08 - 9:27 am | #
Well, respectful disagreement is in short supply these days.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:28 am | #
THis is from JMM and exactly right, btw.
What doesn't get mentioned, however, is this: it was widely reported and understood in both Florida and Michigan that the results of these primaries would not be counted. And based on that knowledge, large numbers of voters in both states simply didn't participate.
If the DNC were now to turn around and decide to make these contests count after all, these non-participating voters would be disenfranchised no less than the people who did turn out would be if the DNC sticks to the rules and doesn't seat any of the delegates. The simple fact is that large numbers of people, acting on accurate knowledge and in good faith, decided that there wasn't a real primary being held in their state on the day in question and on that basis decided not to participate.
DWD - S☮S |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:28 am | #
Mike Allen still calls himself a journalist too.
He's a fraud.
Also Obama wasn't at Reverend Wright's "god damn America" sermon either and they spent weeks and are still talking about it.
HoneyBearKellyGoGiants |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:29 am | #
Bush will strut back to Crawford a big winner.
Sure he will. He'll still be rich, and no one will ever ask him to do anything productive ever again.
Straight vodka and playing craps with the kitchen help, that's his future.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:29 am | #
but Bush will strut back to Crawford
and that right there is what it's all about.
nona |
05.31.08 - 9:29 am | #
Well, respectful disagreement is in short supply these days.
COT, there are studies that show that a good chunk of Americans don't know who the Speaker of the house is, the leader of the Senate, can't name 4 members of the Supreme Court, but can name all six brady bunch kids.
It's that environment that has really helped Republicans when times aren't that shitty. What percent of Americans have any clue as to what McCain, Clinton, and Obama are proposing for health care? I would guess less than 5%.
This election is going to be won or lost on the economy, jobs, iraq, and health care, but only thematically.
There won't be tens of millions of votes researching candidates positions before voting in the fall.
They will be influenced by the memes the candidates use in 30 second ads, as well as the slant of the media coverage they hear in short bursts.
trifecta |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:30 am | #
Well, respectful disagreement is in short supply these days.
Bullshit
cahuenga
We're not going to launch into a Monty Python sketch, are we?
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:31 am | #
Well, respectful disagreement is in short supply these days.
Molly Ivors
Yes. Yes, it is. In all of my disagreements I have had about this issue I have been very careful to make certain that I specified it was with the ISSUE that I disagreed, not the individual.
(If only that were true on the other side. I have been called names, denigrated in every possible way, and insulted daily. For the life of me I do not understand why. I have NEVER insulted anyone personally - other than a troll)
DWD - S☮S |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:31 am | #
(3) is already done!
Gee, Molly, if I get one third of what I planned to do accomplished, I just call it a day -- and then go screw around on the internets.
Toonscribe |
05.31.08 - 9:31 am | #
Gee, Molly, if I get one third of what I planned to do accomplished, I just call it a day -- and then go screw around on the internets.
Toonscribe
Me, too, and that's without having to see to the feed and care of the 294 offspring Thers and Molly have spawned!
noblejoanie |
05.31.08 - 9:32 am | #
We're not going to launch into a Monty Python sketch, are we?
One thing I would really like to see our candidates do is tether the war--its cost in dollars and lives and PTSD and everything else--to the economy. Because it's going to be "the economy, stupid" all over again--people don't have to read the news or blogs to know that they're paying more for gas and food.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:33 am | #
And still be a feminist?
yeah, I can.
I came into this election season hopeful. We are going to be making history, after all. What I have learned is:
1. I thought feminism had come much further than it really has. It leaves me stunned.
2. Racism has moved forward more, or been left behind, so to speak, and the younger generation has made much progress on this subject.
3. Where the fuck did I get lost?
I have much the same background as Molly, and am from PA, which may be where the confusion stems from.
camelot, Go Pens |
05.31.08 - 9:34 am | #
I found the digital camera--maybe I'll post pics of the chix today. They're feathering out nicely.
Molly Ivors |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:34 am | #
I disagree with the disenfranchisement issue of people who didn't vote in Michigan and Florida for one reason.
There were other things on the ballots were there not?
Those counted, no? Were there primary races for house seats? City council seats and the like.
We have many elections without a presidential race on it, that some people still manage to attend. If you care so little for these other issues that you will boycott voting for them because of the sanctions on the presidential primary, how serious are you as a voter?
That being said, Michigan being counted full strength would be a joke. Clinton, Dodd, and Kucinich voters could positively vote for their candidates, it's less empowering to basically vote none of the above.
There is no way of knowing how Michigan would have voted with everybody on the ballot. Clinton likely would have won, but she may have won a plurality with 45%, or less. We don't know.
trifecta |
Homepage |
05.31.08 - 9:35 am | #
camelot,
There was a terrific article in New York magazine a couple of months ago about young female Obama supporters awakening to feminism. It wasn't that they changed their votes, but once they revealed they didn't support HRC, they were astounded at the nastiness of many of their male colleagues toward her.
Less than 2% of all Americans watch Headline News, CNN, MSNBC, and FOX on most nights.
I have to come up with a post for Pax but I was amazed yesterday. I was carrying part of a banner that had a stick figure for each soldier that has died in Iraq. People along the parade route were astounded. Some actually cried. Several came up to me afterwards and thanked me for reminding everyone just what is at stake. And all I could think was, wtf? Why does anyone need reminding.
qlª |
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05.31.08 - 9:36 am | #
DWD---it's not over until the delegate and superdelegate votes are counted. That hasn't happened yet. You may be certain of the outcome, but until the formalities happen or one candidate withdraws, the process like a football game goes on until the time expires.
And as to insults, it doesn't have to be "personal" when someone writes (and I'm not saying you did this, btw): "How can anyone believe [fill in the blank]?" which suggests you who believe otherwise must have suffered brain damage in the last few months because you used to be a reasonably intelligent person before you backed HRC.
noblejoanie |
05.31.08 - 9:36 am | #
COT, there are studies that show that a good chunk of Americans don't know who the Speaker of the house is, the leader of the Senate, can't name 4 members of the Supreme Court, but can name all six brady bunch kids.
You forgot Oliver!!!!
Culture of TrÜth |
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05.31.08 - 9:38 am | #
I still can't help but feel that the Reverend Wright and the Catholic priest were right. What's the big deal?
Pape Clement |
05.31.08 - 9:39 am | #
ql, Thank you for going out and opening their eyes a bit.
Gromit |
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05.31.08 - 9:39 am | #
OT, but Cousin Oliver (real name Robbie Rist) is a huge power pop guy in LA. For some reason, that amused the hell out of me.
Molly Ivors |
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05.31.08 - 9:40 am | #
ql--my thanks to you as well. I have long wondered where the protesting vets are like we saw during Vietnam. Then it occurred to me they are either too seriously injured or else sent back for another tour in Iraq.
noblejoanie |
05.31.08 - 9:41 am | #
I was carrying part of a banner that had a stick figure for each soldier that has died in Iraq.
Thank you.
camelot, Go Pens |
05.31.08 - 9:41 am | #
noblejoanie,
I wonder sometimes whether all the stop-lossing and surging is designed partly to keep people from coming home and talking about their experiences.
Molly Ivors |
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05.31.08 - 9:42 am | #
When it got to the point that Clinton could only win by getting
superdelegates to overturn the pledged delegates, the race was
effectively over.
Technically that happened last week, but in reality it's been several months since that occured.
GWPDA, yclept Irate Historian |
05.31.08 - 9:43 am | #
There were other things on the ballots were there not?
Actually, no there were not. Primary was it, btw. Nothing else. It was an exercise in futility.
And as to insults, it doesn't have to be "personal" when someone writes (and I'm not saying you did this, btw): "How can anyone believe [fill in the blank]?" which suggests you who believe otherwise must have suffered brain damage in the last few months because you used to be a reasonably intelligent person before you backed HRC.
noblejoanie
No.
I never insulted anyone. I have been insulted endlessly. End of discussion. Your "side" did it. I did not.
I was hurt but I am old and have a thick hide. But what amazes me is that it still continues. I simply do not get it. I did not use insulting language as you suggest. I simply argue: as I always do with logic and words.
DWD - S☮S |
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05.31.08 - 9:43 am | #
And I thank you too, ql. Our protests here are small and pretty ineffectual, but I try to go whenever I can. I envy the flexibility and passion of someone like NTodd, who can not only travel freely to meet lots of activists, but wants to.
Molly Ivors |
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05.31.08 - 9:44 am | #
I wonder sometimes whether all the stop-lossing and surging is designed partly to keep people from coming home and talking about their experiences.
And they ignore the ones that come home and do talk about it. The media certainly did a great job of ignoring the Winter Soldier testimony.
Libby |
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05.31.08 - 9:45 am | #
I heard something on local radio this morning that is very disturbing.
Apparently, these kids who are coming home from Iraq with PTSD are being "diagnosed" with personality disorders, so the VA doesn't have an obligation to treat them.
Now, I know I need to research this, but I find the idea totally within the realm of possibility with this administration in charge.
Vicki, Who ♥ Al Gore |
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05.31.08 - 9:46 am | #
I wonder sometimes whether all the stop-lossing and surging is designed partly to keep people from coming home and talking about their experiences.
Molly Ivors
Given all the communication methods out there compared to Vietnam, you might think otherwise which makes me wonder how much censorship is going on.
Certainly there is not much in the way of journalism (embedded reporters, for ex) as well as no coverage of returning dead and wounded soldiers. But I'm wondering if soldiers' email and IM etc are also monitored or at least that they fear it.
noblejoanie |
05.31.08 - 9:46 am | #
I believe the Preznit. For several years of his life he was far too stoned to remember what he tried or didn't try.
R. McGeddon |
05.31.08 - 9:47 am | #
I thought that this place tried, many of us anyway, to try to look beyond the primary to the general election. Most of us maintained that we'd vote DEM no matter what.
I guess I selected against reading too many of the nasty comments of either side and kept a close counsel except on Simel's Saturday Clinton Bashing hour.
Nancy Willing |
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05.31.08 - 9:47 am | #
Apparently, these kids who are coming home from Iraq with PTSD are being "diagnosed" with personality disorders, so the VA doesn't have an obligation to treat them.
Yep. Primarily anxiety and depression. Drug 'em up!
The nicest part is when they argue that the anxiety and depression are chemical, and so not due to their war experience. Sorry, kid. You came to us broke. It's not *our* fault!
Molly Ivors |
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05.31.08 - 9:48 am | #
And as to insults, it doesn't have to be "personal" when someone writes (and I'm not saying you did this, btw)...
DWD, in case you missed the qualifying language in my comment.
noblejoanie |
05.31.08 - 9:48 am | #
Apparently, these kids who are coming home from Iraq with PTSD are being "diagnosed" with personality disorders, so the VA doesn't have an obligation to treat them.
I follow these issues closely and it's sadly true.
Libby |
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05.31.08 - 9:48 am | #
I envy the flexibility and passion of someone like NTodd, who can not only travel freely to meet lots of activists, but wants to.
So do I. I have a great deal of respect for his efforts and energy (plus, I ♥ him).
Vicki, Who ♥ Al Gore |
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05.31.08 - 9:48 am | #
Vicki, I saw that too, sometime last weekend I think. Mental health staff in the VA had received instructions that there were to be fewer PTSD diagnoses, as a 'cost-saving' measure.
Gromit |
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05.31.08 - 9:48 am | #
There were other things on the ballots were there not?
Were there? What were they? Were they of interest to everyone?
Were there primary races for house seats? City council seats and the like.
In my experience significant primary challenges for House seats are rare. Primaries for City Council? Possible, but I don't recall voting in many myself.
Culture of TrÜth |
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05.31.08 - 9:49 am | #
I envy the flexibility and passion of someone like NTodd, who can not only travel freely to every Tastee-Freez in the country, but wants to.
Well, PTSD, as an experiential problem, conflicts with current "chemistry is destiny" psychology practices.
Molly Ivors |
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05.31.08 - 9:49 am | #
I finally will not be taking a full class-load while trying to be an effective single parent, for the first time in three years.
I have a stack of books to read, a yard full of weeds, and a house that I tell people was hit by a tornado, though it was not.
I couldn't be happier. The bus will come out of the garage for the summer, and I have much to pay attention to that I have learned from here.
Thanks to all of you, for while you may not have known or cared, what sanity I have left came from commenting or lurking here.
On to making this a country that liberals recognize.
Thank you for indulging me.
camelot, Go Pens |
05.31.08 - 9:50 am | #
Right
DWD - S☮S |
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05.31.08 - 9:51 am | #
Alexis Herman looks a lot like Nancy Pelosi.
Vicki, Who ♥ Al Gore |
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05.31.08 - 9:51 am | #
Holey Moley! Donna Brazile! Dr. Dean! What a meeting!
plantsman, |
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05.31.08 - 9:51 am | #
Mental health staff in the VA had received instructions that there were to be fewer PTSD diagnoses, as a 'cost-saving' measure.
Even worse has been their coverup of the suicide rates on returning troops.
Libby |
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05.31.08 - 9:51 am | #
camelot,
How old is your kid(s)?
Molly Ivors |
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05.31.08 - 9:51 am | #
camelot, Good on you. I say have fun with your kids and to hell with the house and yard.
Gromit |
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05.31.08 - 9:52 am | #
Even worse has been their coverup of the suicide rates on returning troops.
That news is filtering out despite them: there's a lot of military service in the working class, for obvious reasons, and the word-of-mouth on the suicide rates is spreading among my students. They all know.
Molly Ivors |
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05.31.08 - 9:53 am | #
Holey Moley! Donna Brazile! Dr. Dean! What a meeting!
plantsman
Vicki, I saw that too, sometime last weekend I think.
Of all things, I heard it on a local sports talk show. The host is definitely a Republican, and he was outraged. Wants the war over, even though he was stroking McCain.
Nonetheless, his comments were striking.
Vicki, Who ♥ Al Gore |
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05.31.08 - 9:54 am | #
My students are also very sharp about PTSD--my colleagues really need to catch up on these issues. We're going to be the front line for all these guys shunted off by the VA.
Molly Ivors |
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05.31.08 - 9:54 am | #
The Democratic Party Rules Committee, meeting in DC, to reconsider their sanctions against FL and MI for moving their primaries. On C-SPAN, MSNBC, etc.
plantsman, |
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05.31.08 - 9:55 am | #
On to making this a country that liberals recognize.
Thank you for indulging me.
camelot,
*
FWIW your contributions here are part of why I stick around.
I think about you every time I wonder why I haven't dug out the old albums out of the cellar yet.
Nancy Willing |
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05.31.08 - 9:56 am | #
DNC rules say that you can't apply votes that weren't cast for a candidate to that candidate.
As in, "uncommitted" votes in Michigan. Obama can't take those votes.
That's why they can't seat Hillary's delegates in total, imho.
Vicki, Who ♥ Al Gore |
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05.31.08 - 9:57 am | #
FWIW, my intereset in TBI is finding a way to use my personal experience to help others.
When I was 15 I experienced a TBI and I just want to say that issues related to the injury are still just coming out.
These young soldiers and their families have no idea the waves of 'issues' that they will be dealing with in their futures.
Hopefully we will not have to PUSH legislation in this area, but the problem is huge and should be dealt with ASAP.
camelot, Go Pens |
05.31.08 - 10:00 am | #
"there better be dead brown people in your room before I get back!"-cable news parents
jr |
05.31.08 - 11:09 am | #