I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
I think it is right on its face, in that the internet is generally whiter, more educated, and wealthier than the population at large. Also, tends to be a bit more modern and liberal. At our meetup in Pasadena CA, we had some labor, some older folks, some people of color, but primarily white professionals/students/art types 20-40
All that being said, these are mostly people who weren't involved in politics pre-dean, and most said they gave money for the first time. Look at the average dollar amount of Dean's support. Dean's financial support is way wider and deeper than anyone elses. I think the committment of these people will have legs, and I think it really does scare the top-down democratic establishment. So, if you have a broader base of people who give money, and who are willing to meet on a weeknight and do campaign work, I think that is better than having only institutional support.
If Dean waited for the unions, or more established democratic instititutional groups (planned parenthood, NAACP, MALDEF), he would never get those endorsements without generating heat early on, because they try not to support people they don't think can win. Before the last two weeks, do you think any of them were seriously considering Dean? Now they are.
So, the meetups are not enough, but they are a great start, and get his foot in the door with these others groups. The next step is figuring how to broaden the appeal. I would be curious to see how the campaign is planning to do this.
Calling it a "problem" doesn't seem right to me. It's like saying it is a "problem" that Dean will now receive more scrutiny for being the frontrunner.
The Meet-up phenomenon may not include a number of key Democratic constituencies -- let's say African Americans and organized labor. Howard Dean, or any other Democratic candidate, is going to need to demonstrate that they can appeal to, motivate, and speak for those constituencies.
But that's not to say there is a problem with the Meetup phenomenon which is an amazing advance in political organizing and shows the Dean campaign operating a higher wattage than the others.
Absolutely, Internet-organizing misses a bunch of voters.
Solution? Internet-organize real shoe-leather door-to-door face-to-face campaigns.
I lived most of my adult life in Chicago. People came to the door before each election, asking if I was registered, if not they would register me, did I know their candidate, if not hear how great my candidate is, and here is the address and time where you can vote.
And on voting day, "Do you need a ride to the polls?"
Don't f**k around. Educate your voters, motivate your voters, persuade your voters, register your voters, transport your voters.
2004 is for keeps, people. The good guys gotta win.
Absolutely, Internet-organizing misses a bunch of voters.
Solution? Internet-organize real shoe-leather door-to-door face-to-face campaigns.
I lived most of my adult life in Chicago. People came to the door before each election, asking if I was registered, if not they would register me, did I know their candidate, if not hear how great my candidate is, and here is the address and time where you can vote.
And on voting day, "Do you need a ride to the polls?"
Don't f**k around. Educate your voters, motivate your voters, persuade your voters, register your voters, transport your voters.
2004 is for keeps, people. The good guys gotta win.
How does the dean campaign get the 'non-internet' voters?
simple. dean's challenge is is not Bush. His challenge is getting nominated as the candidate
once he is nominated, what are the 'traditional' democratic voters going to do? stay at home because it is dean? vote for bush?
the genius of the dean campaign is in using the internet and first time democratic voters to get nominated. That is his end game - being the democratic nominee. Once he is the nominee, he will get all the attention necessary to set himself off against bush and therefore attract the 'core' democrats to his cause.
I hope the Dean campaign is smart enough to use Meetup as a method of reaching out to those who do not have internet access. Meet up members need to canvas, pass out flyers, go door to door, etc. But at least Meet up provides a way for people who might consider doing this kind of leg work with resource materials (handouts and flyers),fellow supporters to work with, and a organized structure for them to conduct their outreach so they won't be alone.
Meet up can't be just about ONLY involving people who can get online. It's word of mouth, passing out flyers, etc If that kind of outreach is done has the potential to get the word out. Thing is people have to start from where they are and for the time being if that means starting with internet users so be it. But that doesn't mean these internet people can't reach out. Know what I mean.
I went to a Dean Meet up and it was mostly white there were 3 or 4 blacks no Hispanics that I noticed. But it's a start. Where they take it is up to them.
EssJay hits the right note.
Our MeetUp has about the same proportion of African-Americans as there are in the general population here, and we're working on getting Hispanic and Muslim communities involved as well. Our plan from the get-go has been to use our organization to provide the shoe-leather. We've already found our neighborhood coordinators; now we're working on block coordinators. And we'll keep this organization in place to help the Dem nominee whether or not it is Dean. We're registering voters and will be calling everyone we register prior to the election to remind them to vote and offer a ride to the polls if needed.
IMO, the Washington Post misses the entire point of MeetUp, which is the opportunity to do this type of organizing. The Democratic Party has abandoned efforts to do it; call them to volunteer and all you'll get is a flood of fundraising appeals. I look for other MeetUp groups to do the same things we're doing - many of them are doing it already.
I'm a Dean Meetup veteran, and we are doing outreach in our community. I think this is another big fallacy in the Dean CW.
Of course we aren't relying on Meetup alone! At the Meetups, we plan activities like flyering at Juneteenth, Pride day, the flea market, etc.
Based on the four meetups I've been to, it's a valid point. Obviously, the job of the meetup groups is to start extending their reach.
An important first step would be a move from the candidate himself. My sense is that potential African-American voters, and even more so African-American political elites, think that the Dems take their votes for granted and won't be around until just before the election.
Dean should put together a speech explaining how his campaign addresses the concerns of African-Americans and start making appearances. And before he does that, at the risk of sounding stupid, I would also suggest a Hillary-like listening tour of African-American and Latino communities to hear their concerns.
I can only really speak about Southern California, but Dean also needs to go right at the basic blue collar work force. Here in LA, Bush used his executive powers to take sides in a management-labor dispute. He ought to go down there and talk to the longshoreman. No one else has bothered to do it.
I understand all about the importance of Iowa and NH, but Dean's got to run for president of the whole country starting now. Through the meetups, he has got a huge group of volunteers that the other candidates do not have. He's got to use them.
It's total bullshit -- how do modern campaigns work, after all? The dems no longer go door-to-door, rather rely on big donors to attract enough $$$, then invite the base to get on board.
You don't think that a Dean campaign could bring the black, latino & labor groups in? Give me a break, those groups would like nothing more than to see an energized group of middle class white folks getting out there.
Is Dean a white elitist who's not addressing their issues -- not from what I've seen. The media, like the author of this piece, is trying to paint Dean with the McCarthy brush, ie, the war is the only issue -- but it won't work. Blacks & labor want a Democratic Party that fights -- look at the run-off in Louisiana, where Landrieux had been written off while she was playing the DLC Bush-lite role.
It's early yet in the campaign, and so far Dean is doing well -- Sharpton has been terrific, too, and don't think that he won't get on board with a fighter like Dean. Dems will learn that Dean is hardly some effete leftist as he's being portrayed by the media, and hell, he's originally from NYC, so he is well aware of tribal politics.
I think the argument is yet another specious attempt to discredit this grassroots phenomenon, using tired models from the past. I think the Dean team would be much better at bringing the coalition together than people like the author expect, and hell, if we could get enough blacks, latinos, women, enviros, etc to vote a winning majority for a lame-ass candidate like Gore, Dean should have no problems.
Having 50,000+ educated middle class people volunteering to help get you elected is a problem the other candidates would love to have.
Go, Jennifer, go!
Face-to-face, voter-by-voter, register the unregistered, you can't win without votes!
BTW, the grey text is unreadable on the light blue background. Is it my computer or is the page supposed to look like this?
Yes, ditch the grey links. Impossible to read!
My thoughts are as follows: Each and every day this site becomes even more insufferable and heads into Indymedia territory in its sheer lunacy, incompetence and stupidy. Keep up the good work guys as you drift further and further from anything even remotely resembling mainstream politics.
This site is truly an echo chamber, idiots babbling to one another does not an intelligent whole make.
Show us the light oh wise truthteller!
Of course, one who spends time reading idiots....
Now, on the topic at hand.
It's a valid criticism. What can we do to get more minorities involved?
The Dean campaign has the largest volunteer base...even if it is mostly white.
I recommend flyering for your meetups once you know the location.
I also think the campaign should put together an easily-burnable CD of Dean speeches and use volunteer labor to distribute it to every Democratic caucus and primary voter in NH, IA, DC and SC. What an impact *that* would make! At $1 each, that's less than one million dollars.
In my experience, once people hear Dean, they like him. Slap some literature and the CD in a sleave and that says "copy me and give to your friends" you've got a ton new voters.
While you of course don't want to be in the position of taking traditional groups for granted, I tend to side with the position articulated above, that the time for rallying those groups en masse is after the nomination is in hand. I recall 1976, when Carter won the nomination without appealing to alot of the truly left edge of the Dem coalition. Some of them even bitched and moaned a bit -- but they were certainly on board in November.
By the way, doesn't this story tend to contradict the media myth of Dean as a creature of the extreme base? If labor and minorities are UNDER-represented, how does the description remotely fit?
It seems to me Dean is doing something amazing -- bringing along the professional class (the lodestone of the new Dem majority, according to Judis & Teixeira) early on. It's astonishing the folks who don't understand the value of that.
The trolls exhibit their fear with each and every one of their more-and-more desperate posts.
Well, I went to a Dean Meetup the other day and it was both crowded and active, and I hope to get more involved in the days and weeks to come.
Whatever the detriments to a Dean campaign so far, is that at least he HAS an organization...there's nothing here for ANY of the other candidates at all. I went to work on the Dean campaign because it was a PRODUCTIVE way to focus my energies. I wish half the whiners I see on the internet (present companu excluded) would do the same. Instead of bitching and whining, do something meaningful. Even if the candidate loses, you gain valuable experience.
LeislerNYC: You speak the truth - fight, fight, fight. We will win IF we work.
Blacks & labor want a Democratic Party that fights -- look at the run-off in Louisiana, where Landrieux had been written off while she was playing the DLC Bush-lite role
hell, if we could get enough blacks, latinos, women, enviros, etc to vote a winning majority for a lame-ass candidate like Gore, Dean should have no problems
Thanks for the idea Luke...I passed it on to the campaign with some revisions....but gave you full credit!!! >:>
Two points:
1) White, educated people 20-40 tend to have a LOT more time and money then minorities. So, early on (and remember that we still have a LONG time to go), that is probably the best demographic to go after. Especially with a format like meetup that costs very, very little for the campaign. If the primaries were next week, and Dean was still using primarily meetup as an organizing tool, THAT would be a problem. Given how well his campaign has been run so far, I don't see that happening.
2) One thing I haven't seen much is Dean (or other democrats) reaching out specifically to students. I mean, Bush is cutting Americorps (that's how I paid for school), forcing states to make education cuts (public school tuition skyrocketing) and so on. Why aren't Dems forcing the issue? Every state rep should spend a day a month going to various schools and talking to student groups about how much they want to help!
I'm not sure if Dean will win the nomination, or if he does, he could beat the Bush machine, but it's refreshing that he's actually reaching out to the masses. *gasp* You know. The people? Demo = many, not money, in Democracy.
The reason Dean is popular is because his ideas are reasonable and attractive to Bushweary Demos. Yes, the internet provides a channel for Dean information, but in this case, (to flip Marshall McLuhan) the message is the media. If Dr. Dean's message wasn’t engaging, we would still be looking for a candidate.
I think most pundits don't understand the great hunger amongst Demos for a leader to fiercely fight back against the Republicans. We,and this includes people of all colors, are engaged and passionate about defeating the people who have seized control of our country. Dean is fighting back. And even if we lose, at least we can lay the groundwork for future battles.
I have an apolitical friend who went off on a unprompted rant against Bush. I was startled, but people are beginning to catch on. Fight the good fight!
The danger will be if everyone sits around patting themselves on the back about their MeetUps and house parties and never takes it anywhere.
I went to my first MeetUp last week and that doesn't seem like the story here in Ann Arbor. There's a Dean booth at the Farmer's market every week. Everybody at the MeetUp (approx 100) hand-wrote at least three personal letters to registered Dems in Iowa in preparation for the caucus. Just letters from regular folks, no flyers, no solicitations. Simple appeals to check this guy out. I invited my six people to write back and I'd be happy to explain why I support Dean. There will be a booth at the Art Fair, which attracts like a quarter million people over a weekend.
Now I'm not saying the Farmer's Market Booth should have Rove and Bush (or Kerry and Gephart for that matter) lying awake at night. OR that it will dramatically diversify the exposure to Dean, but that's not the point and that's not where it will stop. It's early and these are the first steps. The people running the MeetUp last week acknowledged that a real old-fashioned shoe-leather campaign will be necessary and driving over to Detroit will need to be a crucial part of that.
The fact that I attended the meetup is the point. The fact that I'll be doing a shift on a saturday morning at the Farmer's Market, attending a local Democrat meeting and writing letters is the point.
They are getting people involved and I think they will sustain it. The other candidates are sitting back waiting for support to come to them. If the early work by Dean pays off, and he gets the nomination, who are the Unions and minorites going to vote for, Bush? He's attracting who he can right now, I don't worry that's where it will stop.
One thing I haven't seen much is Dean (or other democrats) reaching out specifically to students.
Um, I think Students For Dean should put your mind at rest.
Also, as Alice Cooper said, school's out for summer. We have lots of uni contacts in the Athens of the South, and we're going for major action at registration time.
Kerry, Edwards, etc. all had MeetUp available to them as well. They all take contributions online as well. They all have websites, and they have supporters with weblogs, too.
Dean's support isn't about the internet. Dean has grassroots support, and the internet enabled them to come together quicker. It's just a tool. Kerry, Edwards, Gephardt, etc. are not inspiring grassroots support and that's what this all comes down to.
I think the idea is to attract as many disinfluenced as poss. This election will prove not to be so. I support a different party, not the one from my childhood. I refuse to sell dreams. Action speaks....., Understanding, and action are the goal. Can I create the New Jeffersonian Dem. Parte with a tildae????
What the article is predicated on is the idea that Dean can't play coalition politics...one would have to ask how his campaign compares with that of the other candidates -- is Dean ignoring blacks, latinos, labor, women, gays and most importantly those being screwed by this government & economy more than Gephardt, Kerry, and the rest.
I don't think so, it seems just another arrow for the Bush-WaPost to throw out there to see if it sticks.
Also, correction on the previous post, it's Landrieu.
Anyway, when I see a WaPost article on how Lieberman (or Bush for that matter) is addressing the concerns of blacks, I'll take it more seriously. Having a bunch of white folks worked up about a candidate is not necessarily a bad thing as this article claims.
It's a valid point. I went to the Starry Plough meetup in Berkeley and have never seen the joint look so white.
Let's see.... Internet based regulatory shit costs lives. Move-on is IE based, (whatever; ie..) What about mom- and pop? Nobody, especially ma N pa is blogding. How can you lead without your source? This is all green stuff. Either accept it. or look in the mirror,......
Sounds like many here already acknowledge the problems with the Meetup system and the obvious solution: turn the netroots activists out to drum up support through traditional activists mechanisms.
Fortunately, the Dean campaign understands this, which is why they started the "Adopt an Iowan" program. It gave thousands of Meetupers something to do other than just sit around, bitch about Bush and sing the praises of Dean. That would have gotten real boring real fast.
By turning the energy of all these meetupers on to real-world actions the campaign is hoping to defy the "experts" who say that virtual activism means nothing because it isn't real.
Here's hoping it will work.
I didn't write a letter, because I didn't feel like I had time to say what I felt correctly, and copying the suggested letter felt like astroturfing.
One thing I'm surprised no one's commented on is that this criticism is the opposite of the usual attack: conservative Democratic advisors describing Dean meetups as resembling "the bar scene from Star Wars," most memorably (was it a Lieberman staffer who said they were the kind of people who wore turtle costumes at WTO protests?)
On the contrary, the meetup I ducked into was a gathering of tame white middle-aged people. So which is it, O hostile pundits: Mos Eisley, or Colrado Springs?
Here is an idea:
With 50,000 educated middle class (and committed) white people, during the primary season, they can be used as an organizing force.
Here's how, specifically.
I don't know what the exact order of the primaries is going to be, but if a significant amount of the Dean people in the states neighboring New Hampshire are willing to take the weekend before the primary and GO INTO THAT STATE IN AN OEGANIZED MANNER AND KNOCK DOOR TO DOOR, this will help get out the vote for Dean. Likewise, in other states, Dean people in neighboring states who are willing to volunteer, can be used to go door-to-door in those states (or enage in some type of other get-out-the-vote programs) by going into those neighboring states.
What I'm proposing is that some of these "troops" be used in during the primary season across state lines.
50,000 educated people nationwide!!!
Folks, that is a powerful army. And I suspect that within the next few months it is only going to get bigger.
Imagine what would happen if, when a certain state's primary is on the line because it is closely contested, Dean people from neighboring states came into that particular state's territory and worked with the "native" Dean people to walk the precincts for Dean.
We're talking an army here, folks. A committed army. And a very capable and intelligent army. And if they can be intelligently and strategically mobilized, then there is no stopping them.
I agree. It is a "problem" that other candidates (including aWol) wish they had.
And the "top down" people in the Democratic party and in the media are truly scared shitless because things like what Dean is doing means that their power will be significantly undermined, if not completely eradicated. I mean the power of media people to tell Americans what to think about candidates, and the power of politicos to cut deals and tell people in their party what it is they want instead of actually listening to what it is that they want.
But isn't that how true "democracy" always works . . . to undermine the power fo the people at the top who have nothing but contempt for "the people?"
I'll say it again: Thank God for the Internet.
You know, after re-reading the WaPo article, I think, "what a load of shite!" Particularly the bit about "But the internet can't become a substitute for the gritty, difficult work of true grass-roots campaigning...."
When's the last time ANY candidate campaigned this way? It hasn't happened since I've been able to vote, which is the past 20 years. The model my entire voting life has been: grab all the money you can, make the rounds to the leaders of the constituencies whose support you're seeking, and run a lot of TV ads, telling people what they'll get, not ASKING them what they want. There's been no such thing as "grass roots campaigning." So yeah, the internet cannot become a substitute for grass roots campaigning, but loads of cash can? Because that's the way things have worked for the past 20 years at least.
You want to know why Dean has "energized" so many people? At least half of the reason is that he's made them feel like they can play a part, that they aren't completely powerless and at the mercy of Bush's campaign war chest. He's given them something to do, rather than just ask them for money and then to sit back and be passive consumers of whatever 30 second TV spots his consultants decide to run. Anyone who has ever worked for a charity or non-profit knows very well that you don't keep committed volunteers if you never have anything for them to do.
I'm glad this story was written. It helps folks realize that this is a battle ... a long one ... and we can't ever, ever, ever, take our eyes of the prize.
Dump
Bush.
I'm a latina living in a college town. I liked Dean, frankly, because of his stance on one or two issues.
What tipped my hand to give him money (the first time ever to a candidate of any stripe) was the infectious, intense enthusiasm of supporters. Both on the internet, and at meetings here in Madison.
I'm seeing an energy and a "We can win this" attitude that I haven't seen since "Don't Stop Thinking About Tomorrow" played at the end of the Democratic Convention in 1992.
And I love it.
The key to winning has to do with energy, with heart, with focus and with confidence. Look at sports, any sport. The guy/girl or team that wins is usually the one(s) who most believes in him/themselves. Who is very good at what they do because they've thoroughly practiced, and who is unfettered by nagging selfdoubt - at least about their game.
You need to set the goal high, to not just BARELY squeak by on election day but take the country back BY STORM. An OVERWHELMING LANDSLIDE is what Democrats should be shooting for.
I hate Kool Aid. And he scares me a little, but I'm there despite myself.
Tiny reality check here and please forgive my lecturing. Should the Democrats win people (or at least the young among us) should not expect that nirvana will have instantly arrived and the streets will suddenly be paved with gold. True in a war like the present political one (or during naziGermany) people can put aside their differences and band together, but remember that after election day you'll still have to go to work to make a living, sit at street lights, pay your bills, deal with that pain-in-the-neck of a neighbor, have ups and downs and all the stuff that goes to being a normal human being.
What will be different will be that we will have rid the world of America's first fascist President, can return policies back to the fundamental values of equality and justice and can concentrate on trying to make it better.
Anon:
good post
The pattern for meetups is something like this.
For the first few months it's just a 'sit around, bitch about Bush and sing the praises of Dean' kind of thing (as described above). One or two vets of previous campaigns starts to lead the meetup.
As the group 'matures' it liases with Dean HQ which starts giving the meetup folks something useful to do.
As the groups get larger they tend to split up so that the size can be controlled (it's hard to find venues that can handle 200+ people) and it also allows people to have more convenient, closely located meeting sites. New groups are probably in kvetch mode for a month or two as well. But they will eventually hook up with a couple old pros and HQ as well.
So what's the problem?
Should the Democrats win people (or at least the young among us) should not expect that nirvana will have instantly arrived and the streets will suddenly be paved with gold.
Good point, Anonymous.
Is our country better off than it was 4 years ago? No.
Is your state better off than it was 4 years ago? No.
Is your neighborhood safer than it was 4 years ago? No.
Do you want to change that? Yes.
Let's roll up our sleeves, get to work and turn this ship around.
Go America!
Goodbye, Bush...
Here in St. Louis, we are quite organized and diverse. I don;t know what hte WaPo is talking about. During the last meetup, we wrote letters to Iowans, broke apart as teams to leaflet the local Fourth of July fairs, and started going house to house in disenfranchized neighborhoods talking to people about Dr. Dean.
The guy is writing for the Washington Post - a paper that recently ran an editorial about Dean's MTP appearance that was basically a cut and paste job from Kit Seelye's vapid critique.
The corporate media quite transparently hate Dean. They have been tossing anything they can at him to get it to stick. The guy may be right that the internet related Dean supporters may be white, but we are all highly motivated and none of us are idiots. We know that in order to win the nomination Dean has to win the support of All the people.
This is why we are going to Iowa before the caucuses start in order to drum up public support and awareness. We are not going to take another four years of Bush lying down.
One large thing that stands out about Dean supporters, though, is that most of us know that the corporate media is completely full of shit. Almost all of us get our news from the web, and most of us are very vocal about our beliefs.
I don't see Dean's support as a problem. Why doesn't the WaPo write an article about Bush's 2000 dollar a plate hotdog lunches - and how it hurts Bush to have the support of the few rich people that can afford to pay 2 grand for a burger? The liberal media strikes again.
Right on, Scott.
As a disgruntled member of the SCLM*, to quote former WI Governor Tommy Thomson "Stick it to 'em". Don't let them (like WaPo) get away with telling you who you should vote for.
Dean supporters remind me a lot of the RFK crowds. Initially RFK drew mid- to upper class whites.
By the time he got to Indiana for the primary, he was pulling in urban blacks, blue collar whites, Catholics, Jews, etc.
It's early. Dean's initial support isn't a problem. Some people in Washington just think it is.
Believe me, if he was raising money hand over fist, but his supporters were glazed over and lethargic, you'd see articles about that, too.
*SCLM (so called Liberal Media)
I did not read the WaPo diatribe nonsense because just the fact that the DC media is giving Howard Dean any notice means he is doing something very, very right. If anyone were to ask former Gov. Jesse Ventura whether or not the internet can enable a candidate to reach a wider constituancy, he would tell you straight up that it got him elected in Minnesota. The pundits have no idea what the internet impact on this primary will be and nobody else does either. I commend Meetup for doing something innovative in political organizing. I hope it reverses the Big Donation trend to a wider small supporter, and more community active party momentum. That's what the Democratic Party should be...... more people oriented and less corporate influence. To reach out to minority African-Americans and Hispanics Meetup could do well by actively inviting those communities through their religious leaders who have historically been the most influential in reaching those voters.
I don;t remeber ever seeing any other presidential candidate's people walking from door to door to talk to people - butan army of thousands of Dean supporters doing that has got to be a positive thing.
Most of the people I talked to on the fourth were ambivalent - this being a year and a half before the election, but they all heard about Dean, and most people agreed. I got a couple of Bush supporter blue-collar guys talking and I mentioned the Republican plans to change the overtime laws that would end up costing millions of people their overtime. They could not believe it - then I gave them a few article clippings.
People really don't know what Bush is doing because of the fast and furious way shit storms out of the white house and the partisan attitude of the media. When you point out that they were used or lied to, people tend to take offense.
I did not convert the Bush supporters, but I got them to look at Bush a little more citically - and that is all it will take to sink that guy. Any critical examination of Republican legislation quickly makes it clear that their laws are written for the benefit of the rich and powerful - to the detriment of everybody else.
If you lead a horse to water, you can't make him drink, but at least you know that he knows where the water is.
What has this sometimes liberal, sometimes affluent white boy done for Dean? Let's see.
1. I have given money to the campaign, my second political contribution in since I started voting,
2. pitched in for a booth at a street fair,
3. convinced six others to give to Dean, including one minority, one soccer mom, one of the working poor, and one 2000 bush supporter, none of which spend any appreciable amount of time on the internet,
4. marched in a parade and leafleted,
5. talked at length with many of my friends and neighbors and all of my family about Dean, most of which had never even heard of him,
6. convinced one eighty year old man to come to the next meetup,
7. attended five of the last six meetup meetings, including the one on my birthday,
7. and written nine letters, by hand, to undecided Iowans.
Multiply this by tens of thousands and you have a Chicago-style campaign nationwide without the need for corporate financial backing, which will be necessary to beat the onslaught of paid organizers and airtime that Bush is going to hurl at whomever runs against him. I think that even the American Pharoah would be proud.
Some of us oppose the war, some think Dean best understands that Bush is dismantling our safety nets, some want a candidate who doesn't flinch, wimper or dissemble, some of us have lost work, benefits, investments, or all of the above.
Dean didn't find the Meetup people, we found him. We continue to find him at an average rate of almost 370 a day, 847 in the last twelve hours. At that pace, we will have between 125,000 and 300,000 volunteers nationwide by the end of the year.
Meetups do not represent the voting public, the majority of which will pay attention much, much later. However, if you compare Gephart's meetup numbers in Iowa (649 vs. 5) or Kerry's in New Hampshire (888 vs. 51) you can see already who is best prepared for the "gritty, difficult work of true grass-roots campaigning."
Eliza Black-
"I hate Kool Aid" is the wittiest statement regarding a candidate I have heard in a long time. I know what you mean, but I think, let's ride the wave and see where it goes. Don't let the perfect stand in the way of the good.
Good post cookie. I happen to think that hte number of Dean supporters at meetups will grow faster than that, though. There tend to be a network effect when a large number of nodes (Dean supporters) link to a central hub ( Dean campaign). The larger the number of nodes, the greater the incentive for non-connected nodes to connect. The then creates a larger number of nodes in the network.
You can see this with Dean's growth already. It started as a small group in cities with 5 or ten people in them - then every meetup we gained more than the previous meetup. In St. Louis, we are growing at a nearly geometric rate - and we will soon have to leave our venue.
I think Dean is the real thing. He is a centrist with a progressive streak that has enough backbone to stand up for what he believes in. The media are trying hard to put him down, but I do not think that their imput matters as much as it used to.
I think a lot of people are becoming wise to the fact that the media has a vested interest in Bush and that the punditocracy is trying to defend Bush by crushing his enemies. I think a lot of poeple see what is going on in the UK and they are starting to understand that the corporate media is to blame.
I am sorry about all the typos.
"This accords with my experience at MeetUp. I think it's a problem. Thoughts?"
If Governer Dean was conducting his campaign from his study, a "Blog Garden Strategy" if you will, then it would be a problem. But from all reports he is out there on the road, connecting with real voters.
What Meetup, Moveon and blogforamerica are creating is buzz, activated volunteers who actually turn off their computers and meet face-to-face, and huge dollars in small contributions (all matchable). What they are not creating is a huge drag on Dean's time and energy. Beyond swinging by the local Meetup wherever he happens to be every Wednesday (like meeting a bunch of charged up volunteers hurts) nothing the online effort is doing hurts his ability to reach out to minorities and labor and seniors or anyone else. And by lifting much of the burden of daily fundraising we release that much more energy to campaign.
For the rest of the message I refer you to cookie's excellent post above.
Too white? Compared to what? The Lieberman campaign? Its hallirous that the establishment wing Democrats who have been stiffing organized labor, African Americans, etc for over two decades could complain that Dean's primary supportors don't look like Donna Brazille.
When's the election? Oh yeah, November of 2004. The idea that there's a problem with the energized Internet-based grassroots at this stage is silly.
I'm late in the game here, but let me echo what many have said. Dean's "problems" of having $7.5 million and being targeted by WaPo as a frontrunner are problems Lieberman would love to have. A year and a half before the election, and Dean has gotten new people engaged in the process. He excites people.
I've been voting since 1987, but have always refused to give money to candidates or parties. I'm one of those 59,000 contributors to Dean last quarter. He's gotten me to go beyond just pulling a lever in a voting booth (actually, in my teeny VT town, we put Xs on big paper ballots with a marker). Though I haven't gone to the same lengths as some here, I have talked him up on my blog (that's the Internet angle) and with people in person (I used to never talk politics with people).
Even if Dean "only" reached the Internet crowd, that's 50% of the American population--not an insignificant demo. But he is rolling up his sleeves and getting down to real campaign work. Look at his announcement week: MTP, a rally with 5000 local attendees and *30,000* nationwide, a foreign policy speech in Washington, and then back on the trail. And approaches like the Adopt and Iowan thing is brilliant.
This is WaPo/winger spin, pure and simple: make it seem like Dean is too ____ (white, rich, Internet-based, ill-tempered, unelectable, etc). Grassroots is (are?) grassroots, and will lead to greater things. You have the power!
Oh, forgot to mention that my wife is going to be volunteering for Dean this fall. Something she's never done before...
To my mind, the Dean I'net phenomenon is a lot like the Christian Right's stealth campaigns with flyers in the church parking lots. (Except of course I like Dean's positions much better.) No one had thought of that method of outreach before.
Sure, some of those extreme-right candidates lost. Robertson for President?! But a lot of them won.
Excellent point, Andrew Lazarus.
The idea that the internet is somehow the elitist province of well-off white folk is elitist in itself. Fifty years ago the idea of TV campaign ads were dismissed because pollsters believed that a relatively small number of households had TV sets, and the ads would not reach the vast majority of voters. That did not dissuade the Eisenhower campaign from running ads on TC, and the pundits were aghast - but it worked.
The WaPo article sounds too dismissive of the internet, as if they're nervous that the dance of electrons might actually replace the printed page. Maybe the grass-roots are always greener...
Do I think it's problem? Only if people think that it actually means much of anything other than expanding the white, affluent professional base. Since only 50% of the US voting age population enters the voting booth in any given election, expanding that percentage, at least of Democrats, is a good thing.
I think Dean's problem is not reaching out to those white, affluent, professional voters on or off the Internet: I think he's had, and will continue to have, grassroots campaign or no, problems because of statements like he made during his June 23rd speech in Burlington. And no, I'm not just picking on Dean because of his "Indian problem". Dean has a disadvantage the other candidates do not - he's lived most of his life in a wealthy white bubble (except those few years at Yale when he had AA roommates), and it's not that he's racist or mean or uncaring. IMO, non-whites are just outside of his field of vision; they are the Other, not bad, or good, just different. He doesn't know how to reach out to them, unlike Clinton or even Lieberman, who grew up in New Haven and rode the Freedom Ride through the South while a college student (also at Yale.)
Can he fix this? Possibly, but he needs to work a lot harder than he current is doing. And he needs to fire his speechwriter, and hire a whole sh*tload of non-whites on his campaign staff. His staff had better be a lot more reactive as well, as Joe Trippi told me personally nearly 3 months ago he would get me an answer on tribal sovereignty, and so far, nada. (We had an answer from Kerry's campaign within hours, same with Kucinich's.) If other minority groups are getting similar reactions on areas of concern as Indian are, he's in trouble. And I don't think it's only because of the size of the American Indian population, which is the same size as the American Jewish population (Can you imagine AIPAC being ignored by Dean's staff for 9+ weeks?)
Non-whites really don't rate in the hunt for New Hampshire and Iowa, but will certainly elsewhere, including Arizona, South Carolina and Oklahoma, all in the week following NH, and whose delegate count totals 160 versus 86 for the two earlier contests. So it's definitely worth it to broaden the scope to be more inclusive than the campaign current is, if the goal is to in fact win with a multifacted coalition, versus tapping into the anger of those white, affluent professionals, online and off.
And I should learn to proofread before hitting enter. And finish my coffee. Ugh.
I think many people confuse the tool for the carpenter. The internet is a tool, a faster cheaper way to get lots of people together. Previously we had to rely on phone banks, or word of mouth or advertising to get people to gether. What they do when they're together is the key. The first meetups were like feeling out sessions, people saying " can I work with these guys", or maybe a mid-week excuse to drink beer. Now as we're in the 3rd quarter and the primaries start to come into view, the action will start. We have been flyering for 2months, we wrote 3 letters to an uncommitted Iowan, road trips are being planned to New Hampshire for canvassing. True, there are campaign veterans leading the way, but how would they have found us otherwise?
Also the internet gives us an easy way to donate. During the last day of the 2nd quarter,I, along with thousands of others,was glued to the monitor, rechecking every 30 minutes to see the Dean numbers go up. And more than a few of us probably gave again to see him top 7.5 m. Where else can you get such instant gratification?
"But the Internet can't become a substitute for the gritty, difficult work of true grass-roots campaigning in diverse ethnic and socio-economic communities."
Translation: The internet is a superb organizing tool greatly feared by the Mindless Brownshirt Fucks.
"But the Internet can't become a substitute for the gritty, difficult work of true grass-roots campaigning in diverse ethnic and socio-economic communities."
"Translation: The internet is a superb organizing tool greatly feared by the Mindless Brownshirt Fucks."
David, this is kinda a non sequitur. Brownshirts fear the opposition being able to garner a large enough coalition, including people who are not even on the internet (only 20% of non-whites use the internet regularly.) So wouldn't they actually be happy to see Democrats shift their resources to reach more Internet junkies, and ignore grassroots campaigning amongst traditional lower income and minority groups?
At some juncture, Dean and the Campaign staff have to convert the excitement of actually discovering, supporting, and promoting a candidate which lots of people here feel -- into the messy business of running 50 individual campaigns (one in each state -- each with its own rules) and become adept at making the "buzz" into delegates.
People here who are excited need to find experienced people in the Democratic Party, state by state, who can educate them in the delegate selection process and rules. They are very complex, for good reason -- they force a candidate not only to show he/she can achieve a popularity quotent -- but that they can convert that into a winning strategy. The best campaigns keep as much as possible of the personal excitement, but learn to funnel it into delegate producing activity.
So -- at met-up's someone needs to ask for a presentation of your state's rules -- how are delegates selected? How do you use the attraction of Dean to maximize the number of Dean Delegates state by state?
Dean meet-up's need to invite others who will be running for office in 04 to attend their events. People running for State Legislature, Congress and state offices love crowds of politically interested folk, and many of these endorse at some point in the primary/caucus season. If Dean has the larger crowd, why not ask these folk to attend and consider a Dean endorsement?
say what you will about the ethnic makeup of a Dean MeetUp, but show me any other candidate who has as many people gathering on a regular basis.
Excellent post MB. Deanies take note. At least here in CA, the state that gave President Gore his million vote advantage, the Democratic coalition is the Democratic Party. What is the story at the top of the Dean campaign? Are there any black or brown faces? Proud Dem who will vote for whomever the candidate is in Nov. but the Dean campaign smells Tsongas/Nader like to me which is kind of a bad odor. Reach out Deanies and quit being so defensive.
http://www.suntimes.com/output/s...dt-
steyn06.html
Mark Steyn masturbating over the fact that Dean has become so popular.
The article makes a good point that all the internet activity has really not translated into broad support, in one poll Dean was ranked sixth place. If this poll does exist then we are all in deep trouble.
I wanted to make that point because it seems verybody who has posted this far has been self-congratulatory. I really do belive that it is a problem because of the fsct that minorities and labor. are the Democrats' most reliable constintuencies. For example, Al Gore won Michigan, Minnesota, and Maryland as a result of the blck vote. Clinton won the 1996 election primarily through the minority vote. All the information, if I recall, can be found in the website of that organizattion that conducts exit polling on election day.
Dean's problem is not reliance on the internet or his white, professional, middle class base. His problem is how to broaden this support to other constituencies--labor, African Americans, Latinos, Native Americans, and other traditional constituencies. Unless he finds ways to crack these groups he has no chance, either in the primary or general election. And some of his policy positions--balanced budget and death penalty among them--will make this difficult to do.
One other thing--let's not exaggerate the current reach of MeetUp. Labor unions routinely put many more people on the street organizing and getting people to vote than those showing up at the Meetup sessions, which as far as I can tell do very little actual election related activity. Until Meetup can actually morph into an effective and sustainable grassroots organizing tool it is still just potential, not actual, electioneering activity.
What a lot of great posts, especially about the meetups that are reaching out. (And no trolls! 10:48PM is past their bedtime?)
Thanks!
Sad that Gov. Dean, who has argued for tolerance and inclusion and stuck his neck out on behalf of the U. of Michigan's admission policy, is getting ripped for making the terrible mistake (the horror!) of using "we" in the wrong sentence.
All of this blather is academic. Let's face facts.
The "mainstream" media works for the RNC. It is devoted to crushing ANY opposition to BushCo. It must be fought BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!
At this stage in the game (months away from the first primary) I'd have to cast my lot in with Yat Pundit:
"show me any other candidate who has as many people gathering on a regular basis."
However, as others have implied, Meet Up is a very strong and worthwhile TOOL to complement those other tools that have traditionally strengthened liberal candidates (foot canvassing, tabling, and other face-to-face organizing).
As far as African-American opinion, I am a white male attending graduate school at Howard University in Washington DC. In my five+ years there, I have noticed a great dearth of political activity there. Yes, the professors stress the great struggles and black political leaders of the past, but the students are decidedly apolitical. This is a point that the student paper, The Hilltop, makes repeatedly in editorials. My point is I am wondering to what extent this inattention to politics extends to larger numbers of African-Americans and what do politically engaged people (of all races) need to do to reverse this destructive trend (which I know also exists in the poor white communities as well).
The Wapo has two possible stories about Dem candidates:
1) Basing himself exclusively on the narrow special interests of labor and minorities, X will never be able to get the broad level of support needed to win an election.
2) Failing to base himself exclusively on the narrow special interests of labor and minorities, X will never be able to tap the enthusiastic base support needed to win an election.
There is no way any Democrat will get any other story from Ken Starr's paper.
There is one thing above all else that the GOP and right-wing corporate media fear: a Democratic opposition that generates voter enthusiasm.
This is why they so deeply despised and feared President Clinton.
The single greatest asset that Dean has revived for the Democrats is grassroots fire in the belly -- a determinedness to turn away from the stupefying GOP propaganda show (with its plentiful approval polls) and begin dilligently organizing for Bush's defeat in 2004.
This is exactly the kind of spark Religious Right activists provided the Republicans in the '80's. And they had (and still have) little appeal outside their cadre of true believers.
But you can't win unless your true believers are motivated and organized -- not just in agreement.
Dean's Meetup strategy provides the essential foundation for branching-out beyond his obvious base -- something no other Democrat has at the moment.
I've said this before, but it can be said again. I hated Bush from the minute he appeared in Texas politics. I was furious when he stole the election. But that's all I was, until the war in Iraq led me to blogging. Now I spend as much time talking to real people face to face about what's wrong with Bush and why I support Dean as I do blogging. Blogging has gotten me up and politically active again, after a long and complacent hiatus.
I don't know anything about Meetup.com. But I believe strongly that the internet is an incredibly powerful grass roots political tool. Once the democratic candidate is nominated, then it's going to take a lot more than the internet to get him into the White House. But those who are already trying to discredit the internet and Dean, for his involvement with internet based groups, are just showing their fear of the movement to get Dean elected.
One more thing - I keep talking to a lot of people who very quietly hate Bushco's guts. They are almost afraid to say anything outloud, because Bushco has been spinning the idea of patriotism ever since 9/11. But people don't vote outloud. Bush is beatable.
MGJ - I think you greatly overstate the problem - we are not in "deep trouble" as you put it, at least I don't think you can say that at this point. It is early yet, and as other posters have pointed out, Meetup is just the kernal of the organizing effort, not the end result. I don't know about other meetup groups, but in ours we have already established contacts with labor and minority groups, asking if there is a way that we can all work together to register and turn out voters. We have several very influental African Americans involved in the meetups - people with a database including every African American minister in the state as well as other African American community leaders. The AFL-CIO was having their state convention when Dean made his announcement and so were not able to attend that event, but the contact has been established by people who have previous relationships with labor leaders (that would be me) and although labor at this point leans towards Dick Gephardt, they're open to working with us on voter registration and GOTV. So while SOME meetup groups may not have yet taken these steps, many of us have already and are starting to work in coalition with these important constituencies. I think the key to being successful with this approach is to agree that our work in tandem will be for the benefit of WHOEVER the nominee is, because labor and teacher's unions, African American groups, etc may favor other candidates for the primary. In our case, we've said, that's ok, but let's all work together on the common goal of building an organization that will deny Bush the vote in our state come Nov. 2004. And then we continue to do our work promoting Dean solely through our meetup structure, while they promote the candidate of their choice through theirs. The power of this approach is that if Dean wins the primary, we WILL have the support of those groups we've worked in tandem with, just as they know their candidate will have OUR support should he win the nomination. And that coalition will already have been established and will be ready to hit the ground running as soon as the nominee is selected - no wasted time on organizing after the primaries. So maybe things aren't as bad as you might think.
Jennifer - great post. And exactly right - if we can all work toward promoting our candidate while reaching out to other groups and building a democratic voter base that will support whoever is the nominee, then we've got it. And you are telling us how to do that. Thanks
David E - "tranlsation: the internet is a superb organizing tool that is greatly feard by the mindless brownshirt fucks."
Yep - you nailed it. I believe that completely. And they are scared shitless of Howard Dean, too. It's obvious.
"Too white? Compared to what? The Lieberman campaign? Its hallirous that the establishment wing Democrats who have been stiffing organized labor, African Americans, etc for over two decades could complain that Dean's primary supportors don't look like Donna Brazille."
Um, why don't you come back when you know what you're talking about?
"To my mind, the Dean I'net phenomenon is a lot like the Christian Right's stealth campaigns with flyers in the church parking lots."
And you can bet they'll be doing that again, at least at the fundamentalist protestant denominations. How about everybody else distributing info to the others?
grass roots are grass roots, be it pavement or puter. Let's get the vast majority of americans involved again in politics and YANK the reigns out of the thiefs hands.
WE WANT OUR AMERICA BACK!
A wonderful thing that happened here in NYC on 9/11 and thereafter was that everyone, and I mean everyone turned out to help. This is supposed to be the Taj Mahal of cynicism and anomie but in different ways (some more effectual than others) everyone did something. The apparently self-involved yuppies who up-ended their perfect, perfect apartment for weeks to put up people who lost their homes; the old yenta normally afraid of her own shadow who went downtown to work in the Red Cross catering operation; the undocumented cleaning lady who (at risk of INS trouble) helped identify undocumented workers at the WTC site; even the writers who got together huge parties to dine in Financial District restaurants--I don't know anyone who didn't help one way or another except for a few (wouldn't you know) Republicans.
Because when the stuff hits the fan, Americans turn out. Dubya got that big surge in popularity right after the attacks because folks wanted to show solidarity--but as it happens, in a real crisis, Americans do just fine in the solidarity department. We don't need The Cretin Administration rolling itself in the flag to push it along.
. . . which is what sort of gives me hope about the election. (You thought this was entirely OT, didn't you?) Real Americans can see that our country's in trouble and they'll do what's neccessary to fix it: vote Bush out.
First, do a Google search on J.P. Gownder and spam. It will tell you with whom we have to deal.
Next, the entire opinion piece was a study in contradictions. Dean is only appealing to the choir, but his meet-ups are white, well heeled, and 60% male. Huh? Since when did this describe the Democratic choir. If Dean has the power to pry significant numbers of white, well healed, mostly male voters away for the Republicans, well, what will the Republicans have left? A meet-up taking place in Boston's financial center was bound to be mostly white, that it was mostly male is a good sign.
Colbert King reported that Dean is doing well with Washington DC Democrats, which suggests he must have SOME African American support.
There is so much I could say about this hit piece, suffice to say that it will go over like a lead balloon with the WPost's very Democratic home delivery market and its only purpose was to set the script for the rest of the celebrity press corps.
Molly - The people I have been talking to lately know that our country is in trouble. And most seem to know that the trouble is coming from the White House. There are some who are never going to be convinced, despite the naked truth that is right in front of their eyes. But I believe that every time Bush opens his mouth, more and more Americans are saying - ye gods! People know stupid and incompetent when they hear it.
We held our first meetup in my community last week. It was new blood. Nobody was active in local democratic politics. All but two of us had never been involved in the political process before. One of the goals for the next meet up is to involve the latino community.
There are some who are never going to be convinced, despite the naked truth that is right in front of their eyes. But I believe that every time Bush opens his mouth, more and more Americans are saying - ye gods! People know stupid and incompetent when they hear it.
Tena--Most people want to think everything's okay and they like the feeling that they're part of something bigger--I think that's why freepers like Bush: they're scared little rabbits who want to think daddy president will take care of them and protect them from the confusion of a changing world. But as you say, the illusion that he could take care of anything is shattered as soon as he opens his trap. And it gets harder and harder to make excuses for him.
Just some thoughts.
In order to outreach to the "minority" communities, you need money.
8 million or so in the second quarter is not money to be wasted on door to door in Chicago in July or August of 2003.
Right now, the important places to spend the limited money is Iowa and New Hampshire, as well as travelling the country making the stump speeches. And Dean NEEDS to start stumping in the "minority' neighborhoods. Roxbury and Mattapan here in Boston. Harlem & The Bronx in New Youk City, Deerborn in Michigan, The Navajo and Hopi reservations in Arizona, Little Havanna in Miami, et al, et cetera.
Win Iowa and New Hampshire first. That gets the serious national attention, plus, it will kill the lesser candidates campaigns, reducing the dilution of of the voter base for future primaries.
So, once Iowa and New Hampshire are won, that means more money comes in, and that means that the serious campaigning can begin everywhere by the local organizations.
That's when you start the door to door actions. That's when you do the leafleting in church parking lots and ballgames.
No one should feel slighted that a Dean person has not knocked on your door in Kansas by now. It's not that they don't care, it's not that they think you're not important, it's just a matter of current priorities.
Iowa first, then New Hampshire. Dean has to prove without a doubt that he's the one who can beat Bush, but he has to fight off all those other contenders first.
And ALWAYS keep in mind the Prime Directive for all Democrats, Independents, and those honest & decent Republicans who dislike what Bush and his puppetmasters have done to the Grand Old Party of Lincoln:
DEFEAT BUSH In 2004!
Jennifer your post answered some of my concerns and I think that some of your ideas will be effective for the primaries and the general election. My only concern is that we cannot be overconfident given that progressives have to contend with the SCLM and the Republican juggernaut- who in my opinion are bunch of thugs as exemplified in the last two elections in which minorities were turned away from the voting polls either being scrubbed off the list or through intimidation and lies. We need to realize that the problems that abounded during election 2000 are still with us. Voting procedures should still be a major concern for Democrats.
I'd also like to see a grassroots campaign by "traditional conservatives" to reclaim the Republican Party to really fuck Bush over. Though that's just a side-effect. I'm sick of seeing real conservatives being called "moderates". And moderates being called "liberals".
I'm not ready to jump on the Dean bandwagon, or any Democrat nominee's bandwagon because it is too early. But Dean should be credited for starting something that might gain some traction. Win or lose, I'll admire Dean for this.
MGJ - You're right to worry about the SCLM - our answer to that is to try to organize down to the block level. We've already got our neighborhood coordinators (last meetup) and they are now working to find coordinators for each city block in their area. This should allow us the kind of person-to-person contact needed to counteract the SCLM with less financial resources.
As for voting procedures, I'm with you. We have had big problems in my county, not due to Florida type fraud, but due to an incompetent county clerk. Our plan is to start our registration early (which we've already done) then next summer, we'll get a list of registered voters from the county clerk office (a mere $50) and cross-reference to make sure all of the folks we've signed up are on the rolls. If for any reason any of them are not, we'll have a couple of months to sort it out before the registration deadline. This is a very good point you raised, and something that all groups doing voter registration should plan to do.
56k
First, do a Google search on J.P. Gownder and spam. It will tell you with whom we have to deal.
Did it. What's your point? I'm still on my first morning coffee...
In my experience, once people hear Dean, they like him.
I agree. The CD idea is great.
AOL-ize the Thugs!
http://www.boston.com/
dailyglobe..._targets+.shtml
This is totally OT, but since this is a popular thread and wanted to get the word out, this is an interesting article. I got it from a metal music board.
HERE:
http://www.roadrun.com/
blabbermo...ewsitemID=13358
"Anyway, when I see a WaPost article on how Lieberman (or Bush for that matter) is addressing the concerns of blacks, I'll take it more seriously. "
my thoughts exactly. i wondered, how many black and latino faces are at lieberman's rallies, or gephart's, or edwards?
one of the biggest problems the democratic party has had in recent years is their abandoning of the minority constituents.
if i was black, i'd still be mad as hell at the dems for turning their back on the expunged voting rolls in florida.
"Too white? Compared to what? The Lieberman campaign? Its hallirous that the establishment wing Democrats who have been stiffing organized labor, African Americans, etc for over two decades could complain that Dean's primary supportors don't look like Donna Brazille."
"Um, why don't you come back when you know what you're talking about?
Anonymous "
(a) any cites, sources or facts to back up your rather rude remark?
(b) it takes balls to post anonymously.
Carol Mosely Braun had the smarts to go into the deep south to garner black support and money.
http://www.wbbm780.com/asp/ViewM...ls.asp?
ID=24573
How many blacks versus white rich guys are making coments here?
Save your money and give it to Kerry or the trial lawyer.
Thanks everyone for doing something REAL to get Bush out.
Truly remember by that one act, whatever you're doing, you deserve a little more respect than someone who does nothing.
What MB and Jennifer said. Dean tried to stiff American Indians as Governor of Vermont, which affects my view of him and may get picked up in the media. His "we" remark was not good, and it's worth the Dean campaign hearing that.
Jennifer is exactly right: if you face a possible obstacle, and you want to win, it's worthwhile to do something about it. Congratulating yourself on how it doesn't exist is less of a winning strategy.
Dean obviously has hugely tapped into other constituencies his rivals have missed.
My candidate is Kerry. For one thing, I think he's decent, and for my part I'm not convinced about the others.
Nader's VP candidate in 2000 was American Indian.
Hang on a moment, folks. Tell me what other campaigns even have large enough grassroots organization to bear mentioning, let alone dissecting for purposes of dismissing them.
Our meetup group has been talking about this issue for a while and we are 1) compiling a list of outreach coordinators to various communities of color; 2) working with these coordinators to prepare targeted materials translated if necessary; 3) selecting stategic locations for tabling.
Remeber, outside of Iowa, New Hampshire, and, to a lesser extent, South Carolina THERE IS NO DEAN FIELD CAMPAIGN. There is just a lot of committed volunteers self-organizing and beginning to do serious outreach beyond the meetup population. Please don't ascribe our current lack of success to the Dean for America campaign - they won't have a presence on the ground for several more months.
To the extent that we can lay that groundwork right now it will only make it easier for the pros when they get to town.
Yes, PaulDem - concrete action. All the best (Dean's my #2).
Dean tried to stiff American Indians as Governor of Vermont, which affects my view of him and may get picked up in the media.
You do know, John Isbell, that the crux of the matter with the Abenaki in Vermont was whether they actually are an Indian tribe. MB will not mention this in anything she says, but from what I read the Abenaki have been blending/marrying with the local white population for about 200 years, and that the Abenaki in Vermont were considered extinct.
Regarding the "we", while it was unfortunate wording, I think that when you look at what he actually said, and what he's said on other minority issues such as affirmative action at U. of Mich., you'll see that it was nothing more than that. Just a clumsy turn of phrase. Not code talk like we see from the Republicans so regularly.
And I dearly, dearly hope that Dean can attract minorities to him in the same manner that he's attracted white Democrats to the meetups. We're in this together.
"Dean tried to stiff American Indians as Governor of Vermont, which affects my view of him and may get picked up in the media."
Let's try this again.
"Dean tried to stiff American Indians as Governor of Vermont, which affects my view of him and may get picked up in the media"
Please. Homer St. Francis had been running that scam for years.
Oh, and John, I lived in Rutland Vermont for nine years, part of that time was during Dean's governorship and some of St. Francis's bullshit antics.
Well, obviously I need to know more about that Vermont story. MB doesn't blog about it that I've seen, she told me in an email.
I certainly don't think his "us" remark was code, I just think it shows a guy who lives in a white world. It wouldn't occur to me to say that, white as I am. There's a lot of perception in campaigns (newsflash!), and it's good to make sure this never becomes a story, as the WaPo is hinting. So: action.
Oh - I have no idea how many of the other white candidates could say the exact same thing. Maybe all of them.
"I think the Dean team would be much better at bringing the coalition together than people like the author expect, and hell, if we could get enough blacks, latinos, women, enviros, etc to vote a winning majority for a lame-ass candidate like Gore, Dean should have no problems."
After reading that, I really wonder why "core Democrats" would have trouble relating to Dean and his supporters.
I wrote Mr. Gownder an e-mail in response to his column:
Dear Mr. Gownder,
I read with interest your column on the Dean Meetups, and I have a
couple of points I'd like to make.
First, I agree that in many places the Meetups are overwhelmingly
white - that's a fair criticism. But what's lacking from your analysis
is any kind of figures about what percentage of the volunteers and
donors for the *other* campaigns are white. People at Meetups
represent the excited activists of a campaign, not the eventual total
demographic. The Democratic primaries are still a ways away, and the
general election is more than a year off. The people who get involved
in campaigns this early aren't particularly representative of the
entire electorate - and never have been.
But more importantly, you speak about Internet organizing and Meetups
as if they're the beginning and end of the Dean campaign strategy.
Meetups get a lot of press because they're a novel organizing
strategy, but no one in the Dean campaign - including Meetup
attendees - thinks they're all that will be needed. My local Meetup
serves as a organizing point for more traditional campaign activities,
such as flyering at local events, conducting letter-writing campaigns,
forming campus organizations, seeking endorsements from local pols,
and appealing to members of the state Democratic Central Committee.
We've always understood that we need to bring the Dean message to
people who aren't online. In your column, you mention the
letter-writing campaign to Iowa caucus voters - isn't that outreach to
non-Net-connected individuals, if anything is?
Meetups exist to bring Dean supporters together and energize us -and
organize us - for what you describe as the "gritty, difficult work of
true grass-roots campaigning." In the two Meetups you attended, you
seem to have mistaken the pep rally for the football game.
Sincerely,
Rebecca Wald
Baltimore, MD
We'll see if I get any kind of a reasonable response.
Great line about pep rallies and football games.
I think that it's incredibly poor character to spew the propaganda of cultural genocide just to defend your man.
The Abenaki, like every other New England tribe in existence today, never were "extinct". And using language like that is incredibly dehumanizing, as if we were mammoths or dodo birds.
Even if I wasn't an Indian, as just an anthropologist, I know that for most of the 19th-20th century, whites did their best to eradicate the indigenous tribal claim to America. Volumes have been written on the subject. So rather than read some white-supremacist amature crap on how New England Indians are all gone due to intermarriage, spend some time in the anthropology section of your local college library and really get a clue.
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