I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
As analyst Seema Sirohi put it: "Hell hath no fury like the US scorned."
yeah. they did this with canada when we didn't wanna go to war in iraq; then they got the ambassador to come back up here and apologize and say that our friendship runs deeper than some differing opinions.
hard to take them seriously when they 1. go off like an angry child who didn't get what he wanted from mommy, and 2. they come back, the tears have dried, and they put a smile on their faces and now everything's okay. it was no big deal.
they did it before the war with every ally who didn't wanna go in iraq. and now they want everyone to come help them.
you guys need to take them out in 2004.
You have to wonder how much of the delay in allowing Canadian beef back into the States after the mad-cow investigations is punishment for Canada's stance. One of the real problems is that previously, that thought wouldn't come up; now it does even if it isn't the reality. This breeds resentment and hostility, and is a lot of the reason Bush has been able to take the world from almost all for us after 9/11 to almost all against us less than 2 years later.
The American Offer India Refused
Adults? What adults?
More fuel for the fire of regime change. The world waits anxiously for a Democratic president in 2004.
As do we.
Nice post, Rick. Everyone should see this frightening line from Rummy:
Yours is a BJP government, you took the risk in 1998 (Pokharan II), take the initiative now as well.
As Rick notes, the 1998 reference is praise for India's first nuclear test.
I can't help thinking, "Pakistan."
Thanks for the info, Rick in Davis. Always helpful to have more of the story.
This ties in well to Atrios's post yesterday:
http://www.atrios.blogspot.com/
2...854445572471879
Perpetual war for perpetual peace.
I think it's critical to this issue that we all remember what India's actual response was.
It was not simply "no."
It was "yes, if the UN says so."
The "if the UN says so" response is coming from several other developed countries as well. It is nice to know that the rest of the world is pushing for a cooperative international role and seems to be willing to help us out, should we rejoin the international community.
The stench from this administration would put a North Carolina hog farm to shame. Just where are all these "carrots" coming from?
Let's see, there's no money for decent health care for US citizens. Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid must be "privatized" because they're "on the verge of bankruptcy." Pension funds are being raided, so that the American worker can learn to "stand on his own two feet," and reject the idea of government as a "nanny-state."
Yet, to implement the neo-con fantasy of an imperialistic America, money can be showered on any nation that agrees to sign on to this dubious endeavor, whether or not the citizens of those nations agree with the proposition.
As much as it may shock the W cartel,
they may learn that the leaders of some countries are more judicious when the lives of their troops are at stake.
I wish Mr. Triplett would identify those in the administration that he is identifying as the adults...
Spoken with a spot-on Hindi accent:
"Offendi, we must indeed plead for forgiveness;
The light that shines forth from you Comes from a bulb of dimness.
Administrations, they come and go,
And with them fly the quid pro quo.
Yes, it is in the wishing we seek what's fair,
We might have consented,
if you'd sent us Tony Blair."
I think it's critical to this issue that we all remember what India's actual response was.
It was not simply "no."
It was "yes, if the UN says so."
Yep, this just goes to show that even our friends don't trust us.
I remember hearing a news report on NPR right after the Iraq war began. An Indian official was saying that the US pre-emption doctrine was making them take another look at Pakistan and nuclear war. As in, more favorably disposed toward nuking Pakistan.
Rumsfeld is a lunatic to encourage India's nuclear fantasies.
This is Bush being a uniter, not a divider, right?
Patrick Meighan - Yes, Bush is uniting the world in one giant puddle of nuclear meltdown.
Rumsfeld's lunacy has never been in dispute.
Jennifer - How true. I sort of picture him laughing maniacally as the world explodes in one huge mushroom cloud. Rumsfeld is vaporized, but his laughter lives on like the Cheshire cat's grin.
Sheesh, more stick shaking and threats, a tactic that's worked so well in getting allies -- ones with actual armies, that is -- to go along with this fun illegal occupation.
Oh to be a fly on Hans Blix's blonde wood Ikea rec room panelling when Dubyah makes a pitch to the "irrelevant debating society" that is the UN.
The Bush administration is known to have a vindictive streak.
Did God tell Bush to punish those people how don't lay down their lives for Bush's big mistake. -- Isn't Bush a "Christian"!
It's funny how Christianity has taken the form of flat-out visceral hate. The same kind of hate Al Capone practiced.
When Dem's (and some Republicans too) decide to move to impeach Bush and Cheney, I pray they are strong willed indivduals because Bush will try ever nasty, evil, hateful trick the book, people. BUSH is NOT a nice man, believe me he is NO Christian. He never was anything but an act.
oops again:
Did God tell Bush to punish those people "who" don't lay down their lives for Bush's big mistake. -- Isn't Bush a "Christian"!
Cheryl - He's not a nice man, I agree. But he's very insecure, just like Nixon. And it will be his undoing.
Clinton: I smoked, but I didn't inhale..
Bush: I got the intelligence, but I didn't read it...
I read about the "secret promises" to the Indian government last night and posted about it over on Kos:
"According to the German magazine "Der Spiegel", India was promised some contracts for Iraq's reconstruction, 300 million Euros to pay for sending 17,000 soldiers, and help to obtain "sensible nuclear technology".
Those offers were made by Rice and Wolfowitz in June. India refused to send troops without a UN mandate."
Just thought it's interesting to see Condi and Wolfowitz mentioned here. The usual suspects.
Article is here (in german though)
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/
au...,257626,00.html
bold.
The light that shines forth from you Comes from a bulb of dimness.
Hey, I liked that poem.
Maybe that should be the bulb of deceitfulness which is known to cast shadows of deep resentfulness.
Bush, you lied to us. Blair couldn't sale these people either. They're like Turkey--holding their breath until the American's impeached the idiot in Chief.
One of India's largest-circulated newspapers, the Hindustan Times, quoted diplomatic sources on Thursday to confirm that the US administration conveyed that it felt "let down" by India's decision
Awww, did someone get their widdle feewings huwt?
Christ almighty, this administration is like the playground bully. They didn't listen to us, so it's time to go punch a crippled kid to pump our ego back up and then sulk in the corner.
India and Iraq had an oil for rice exchange program before the war. That was why India did NOT want to support the war.
I recall that some Indian troops had been brought in to guard one of the pipelines.
This was one of the points that the out of work Iraqi military and police were pissed off about.
I also seem to recall a line about Ghurka (?)( I know I'm off, but I can not think of the martial Indian religious group, they wear beards ) troops wearing shorts while US troops were in full dark green combat fatigues.This was just a line or two in one of the articles.
Fact Search - for someone who tags themselves "Fact Search," that last post was pitiful. Ghurkas are nepalese, and known as fierce fighters. Sikhs wear beards and don't cut their hair. Sikhism is a religion, but it has a warrior component.
And what in hell does Indian soldiers wearing shorts while US soldiers are in full uniform got to do with anything?
He's "Fact Search", Tena, not "fact checker". 
And certainly not "fact rememberer".
"And certainly not "fact rememberer""
I admited I was wrong and could not correctly at that point.
So, what the fuck is wrong with being honest?
Should I lie out my ass like some of you?
Should I lie out my ass
Now that, I'd like to see.
Tena;
Fact Search - for someone who tags themselves "Fact Search," that last post was pitiful. Ghurkas are nepalese, and known as fierce fighters. Sikhs wear beards and don't cut their hair. Sikhism is a religion, but it has a warrior component."
Thank You. I admitted that I could not recall exactly at that point.
And what in hell does Indian soldiers wearing shorts while US soldiers are in full uniform got to do with anything?
As to this point. Aren't Sikh's Indian troops? The story in reference mentioned Sikh troops wearing sahorts. Meaning that sikh troops were already in Iraq.
"Now that Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee's coalition government has shown the courage to refuse to send troops to Iraq, both the carrots and sticks are beginning to come out into the open."
So, two different stories mention Indian troops ALREADY in Iraq.
Sounds very pertinent to the story.
If the Sikhs operate independently of Indian authority, then I stand corrected. As far as (I recall they are still under Indian control.
I admited I was wrong and could not correctly at that point.
So, what the fuck is wrong with being honest?
Should I lie out my ass like some of you?
Fact search
Ok, slowly, just for you.
You're making some claims about why India did what it did, yet you are unaware of those particular facts (about Ghurkas and Sikhs) and these are anything but obscure or arcane informational tidbits. Anyone who has any knowledge whatsoever of India would not fail to know what you did not know. So it makes your claims about India's motives rather suspect, and the fact that you called yourself "Fact search" just made your not knowing such basic facts laughable.
"Now that, I'd like to see."
Shit spewed from any orifice is still shit.
Try spending a couple of days reading the various threads. Much shit spewing, and lying out the ass.
nice to see you're balanced and objective in your 'search for facts'.
just so you know, I'll be ignoring your little factoids from here on out. You have no credibility.
Have fun with your 'orifice'.
"Anyone who has any knowledge whatsoever of India would not fail to know what you did not know."
I missed India 101 in college. Do they run it on the discovery channel?
For those of US in the REAL world, distinctions between Sikhs, Ghurka's and Fucking Indians NEVER arise.
Clear to you on being a overbearing asshole?
"just so you know, I'll be ignoring your little factoids from here on out. You have no credibility."
Do I fucking care?
I posted a single post about Indians already being in Iraq.
Why are you people all pissy assed over something insignificant, as a mistake I acknowledged making?
I'm not posting to be your friend or exchange butt buddy e-mails.
You are no loss to me.
For those of US in the REAL world, distinctions between Sikhs, Ghurka's and Fucking Indians NEVER arise.
Is that the world where you lump the facts together into easily-digestible and factually incorrect (read IGNORANT) bites, not to mention slurs? Fucking Indians? How about Fucking Right Wing Nut Jobs? Oh, but I'm generalizing now...
I'm not posting to be your friend or exchange butt buddy e-mails.
Your idea, friend. Not mine. Isn't it past your bedtime? I think your mommy's calling.
spoke like a true Karl Rovite.
Why are you people all pissy assed over something insignificant, as a mistake I acknowledged making?
Hey fact checker, maybe you should try out for Scott McClellan's spot. You seem to have the same facility with language. I think they're hiring 16-yr olds now, since no one else will take the job.
I missed India 101 in college. Do they run it on the discovery channel?
For those of US in the REAL world, distinctions between Sikhs, Ghurka's and Fucking Indians NEVER arise.
Yet even with your (now) admitted extreme lack of knowledge about India, you know India's motives... see, that's what's so laughable about your post. You admit you know nothing about the place and its peoples, yet at the same time you know all. Topping it off with a name like "Fact search" just makes your position dumber -- maybe you should try a new name that wouldn't create the hope that you would know some elementary facts about what you're talking about. Some thing that rhymes is good -- see mine, QrazyQat -- it's alliterative, it's got a great u-less Q Scrabble word, and it evokes a classic comic character. Maybe for you something like "clueless in cleveland".
I missed India 101 in college. Do they run it on the discovery channel?
For those of US in the REAL world, distinctions between Sikhs, Ghurka's and Fucking Indians NEVER arise.
... or Pakis, or Ayrabs, or Sunni, or Shiites, or camel-jockeys, or sand-niggers ... did I leave anyone out?
About the Indians in Iraq thing, IIRC the men there now are construction and/or oil workers brought in by one of the US contractors (Halliburton I think). Needless to say, there are plenty of unemployed Iraqis who could do the same work.
I missed India 101 in college
Where did you go to college? Most universities worth their salt offer at least survey courses in Far East studies. Or, you could always, you know, visit the library. You do know what a libray is, don't you?
"For those of US in the REAL world..."
In my experience, this pronouncement or something like it is the surest mark of a phony to whom the "real world" probably encompasses the fellow himself and the guys he drinks with, and not much more.
Hey people, ignore the winger trolls and get back on topic.
In reaching its decision to decline to assist, maybe the Indian Government took note of how the US Administration treated Syrian offers to assist with intelligence on Al Quaeda- took the info, then refused to follow through on further communication channels- see Sy Hersch's thoroughly researched article in the New Yorker
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/co.../?
030728fa_fact
Why would anyone risk cooperating with a government that has a track record of extracting what it wants then leaving you high and dry?
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