HULK SMASHED
The argument I received so often from administration supporters was that "they can't tell us everything they know 'cuz it has to stay secret."
My response was, "The naked truth is always better than the best dressed lie."
They're rebuttal: "We can't handle the truth."
My rebuttal: "We deserve the truth even if we can't handle it."
I especially like the post below comparing the cost of inspecting incoming cargo carriers with the cost of war in Iraq.
--ventura county, ca
The strib is really tearing it up. I was so proud that I sent them a letter, and the published it.
http://www.startribune.com/stori...63/
4107897.html
Well, the common belief that Saddam Hussein was involved in 9/11 just shows how much Americans want to believe that we're on the right track and doing the right thing. We can't believe that the president would have us go to war unless it had something to do with 9/11.
I especially like the post below comparing the cost of inspecting incoming cargo carriers with the cost of war in Iraq.
That is a good one. Somehow, this war has made us more secure, even as we fail to spend money to prevent terrorists from taking advantage of our own weaknesses.
Found at BBC: "But there is also now a growing conviction that the Bush administration has acquired a taste for regime change and will not stop at Baghdad. Threats to Syria and Iran to change their policies only confirm that view.
"Against this backdrop it is hardly surprising that the US - and its close ally Britain - are losing the battle for Arab and Muslim hearts and minds."
More can be found at:
http://news.bbc.co.uk
Editorial cartoon: Uncle Sam as a vampire with the bitten and numbed victims behind him and new prey in front.
I also have a picture of a rogue elephant stomping on rats--any rats--it can find.
--ventura county, ca
Great editorial. Wish it was longer. And signed. It always seems like these unsigned editorials are too easy for the Thugatrons to dismiss.
Still, it's nice to see someone besides us saying what Bush has done is far worse than anything Bubba did...
Scooter - it is very nice to see that. It will be even nicer to start seeing signed editorials all over the place that say that. Gotta start somewhere.
Lie and deny. It's been working for W ever since he copped the presidency. He's not going to change now. Even if we had a functioning media, how do you get yor hands on this slippery little bastard?
"Private, consensual, albeit adulterous, sex?"
I say, "Bring it on."
Strib had better tread lightly or there may be a 'terrorist incident' in the Cities.
I mean, lese majeste, and all that.
(Joke)
TownDrunk - I agree that Bush has lied his way through his entire career, if not his life. But actual facts are starting to rear their heads. He's going to have a harder time of it now.
trout: HAW HAW HAW. That was the best laff I had all day. Thanks.
Trout isn't allowed to play anymore-
He's been bad and must be punished-
He has this republican complex that we've been working on.
(Down, boy)
trout's wife: HAW HAW friggin HAW! OK, THAT'S the funniest thing I've heard all day. Thank you!
Yeah, good for the Strib. But I notice that they still can't quite say: "Bush lied."
Oh, yeah, that STRIB column was great to see, by the way. We need more of those in more papers.
Are we talking about the good ole Minneapolis paper Star and Tribune? I used to get it, but quit when I got the computer. Now, how am I going to pay for the web AND the Star & Tribune. But if that is the paper you are talking about, then they had better get some security soon. Bush thinks he has this state all wraped up in pretty and he won't take kindly to any truth being told.
He has personally picked both our governor (Mr. Pawlenty) and our senator (Mr. Coleman). Both of them Bush clones. Couldn't talk without a script, and both criminal to the bone. Coleman was a dem but sold out for money and a picture with Bush. I write him constantly, but not very pleasantly. And as Bush clones, those two will make life very difficult for the paper. Bush is teaching them how to mishandle the media.
Oh yes. The truth. Remember the truth?
Nice to finally see it again after its hiatus...
Here we go again. The left pushing its case that the administration purposefully conflated facts to create the impression that Iraq [Hussein] was intimately linked to Al Qaeda, and more specifically, to 9/11.
I want to propose for a moment that we accept this claim as true, if not only for the reason that it is one of those SO FUCKING OBVIOUSLY TRUE THAT IT NEED NOT BE MENTIONED AGAIN kind of truths, then at least for the sake of argument.
Then, it follows that something else is lurking beneath the public's willingness to associate Saddam Hussein with Bin Laden; or Afghanistan or Iran or Iraq or Palestine with The Geographical Nexus of Terrorism.
I propose the following: the war on terror is a racist war, and as long as there is a casual link to the deranged profile we currently have of our new nemisis -- he looks Arabic, reads the Koran, lives somewhere between Cassablanca and the Celebes, has a problem with Israel -- then most Americans will continue to back any campaign that seeks to "root out terror" (i.e., to "kill Muslims/Arabs").
If lies about private, consensual, albeit adulterous, sex can bring the impeachment of a president, it's not remotely wrong to raise questions about misstatements on issues that go to the very survival of this nation
Indeed, if the Republicans dusted off the impeachment proceedings for a less that worthy cause, imagine what the Democrats could do to Bush! Of course, with the Davis recall to boot, we must ask ourselves if the American empire has just slipped from the zenith of its power, and now begins it steady, slow descent into oblivion, a period marked by bloody fratricide and a propensity for waging costly war at the fringes of the empire.
The meme about 'Saddam=9-11' is just propaganda. Sure, there are plenty of fools in America, and no fool ever wants to desist from the foolishness; that's what makes them fools.
But this is no '70%' of nothing. The pressure cooker is simmering, and there are millions of us corn kernals ready to pop.
Get behind the Governor. The grassroots will save us, or we are LOST.
see grandma j, chumpsotians go moooooo.
Any form of misrepresenting the facts to the American people by representatives of the government is a breach of trust and confidence--but misrepresentation of the facts to obtain tacit consent for actions that subsequently lead to the loss of American life is tantamount to treason. The President of the United States and his administration are traitors. I don't know how you can see it any other way.
So what do you guys think of Abdul Rahman Yasin, the Iraqi who was involved with the *first* attempt to destroy the World Trade Center?
...well Mitch, since he was involved in the first attempt, I can only conclude that he was a direct link between Osama and Saddam. Obviously.
chumpsotians go moooooo
and we vote toooooo
Mitch,
So I guess we should bomb Yemen, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, etc, etc, etc. Since the 9-11 bombers were from all of these countries, they should be considered the enemy. They should all be overthrown.
Do you know the difference between correlation and causation? Just because the guy was an Iraqi does not necessarily mean that he was working as an emissary of Saddam within Al - Qaeda.
Saddam was an evil bastard. I do not have sympathy for him. But this war was going to be expensive in blood and money, it should not have been sold like a bad used car. There were three parts to the administration's plausible threat:
1. Saddam is an evil bastard that has used WMDs in the past.
2. Saddam has links to AL-Qaeda
3. Saddam has stockpiles of WMDs that they can give to Al-Qaeda.
We know 1 was true. After all, the U.S. was Saddam's ally when he used his WMDs. Rumsfeld liked him so much he shook his child killing hand.
Number 2 seems to be made of Bullshit.
Number 3 seems to be made of chickenshit.
Overall, the administration's excuse for diving head first into a mass of raging Arabs - roiling in 30 years of oppression, 12 years of sanctions, ethnic strife, religious strife, blackouts, 120 degree weather... All based on bullshit.
We have no international support, no exit strategy, and we are loosing soldiers every day. The Arab world hates us, we are wasting billions of dollars on Iraq, we are running MASSIVE deficits, and they still want a tax cut!
WHICH WAS ALSO SOLD TO THE PUBLIC LIKE A USED CAR!!!
It is like we just bought it - and we are driving it home - and the engine bursts into a ball of flame. I just hope we don't go careening off a cliff.
In my experience, signed editorials are extremely rare, especially at large newspapers. Don't be discouraged by lack of a signature. The LA Times has been taking pot shots at Bush for a while now, especially on economic policy, which, frankly, we should all be paying more attention to. The war is paramount, but Bush's failings are mighty and many.
Editorials are only written after a consensus is reached, or at least a tie is broken, among the members of the editorial boards of newspapers. (I don't know a lot about these processes but they can be intense philosophical and political battles and absolutely no editorial positions are arrived at without vetting. Someone didn't roll out of bed, get steamed at Cheney and Bush's latest garroting of the truth, and whack out an editorial.) Involvement of a paper's newsroom editors and publishers varies. For the Star Tribune -- the major paper in a state that has slipped far from Democratic Party control -- to be taking on Bush point by point is exciting news, frankly. They are staking out a potentially hazardous position: People cancel subscriptions based on just such stances and I would bet the house this is already happening in Minneapolis.
We spend a lot of time smash-mouthing media. These folks need our backing.
Editorials are not signed because they represent--putatively--the opinion of the publisher. In other words, you can consider editorials to be signed by the publisher, regardless of the particular individuals who write them.
Cheney has created a great new response to press questions, when you don't want to say "yes" but want to leave the impression/implication that the answer in fact is yes. As in:
Q: Is Cheney a liar?
A: Well, we don't know, do we?
Q: Does Cheney have a hard time distinguishing the nation's interests from those of Halliburton and his Texas oil buddies?
A: Well, we don't know, do we?
Q: Are Cheney and Scooter Libby and their ilk responsible for the deaths of hundreds of young Americans?
A: Well, we don't know, do we?
Go JimJ! [I think that was the Strib's editorial writer's name in comments below]
People still believe the Saddam-9/11 link because NO ONE WAS SAYING ANY DIFFERENTLY. Then, last Democratic debate, Dean (and a couple others I think) said, "Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11." Well, lo and behold, it became an issue, Cheney got asked, and now we have ole Generalissimo Arbusto himself denying a link. Maybe those numbers will start changing soon.
Amazing what happens when you have an opposition party.
Derrick Jackson of the Boston Globe gave us a useful tool the other day.
He said Cheney might be lying
or not depending on
"what the meaning of i$, i$."
I think that says it all, doesn't it?
So what do you guys think of Abdul Rahman Yasin, the Iraqi who was involved with the *first* attempt to destroy the World Trade Center?
Wasn't he an American citizen? The FBI thinks so:
http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/terr...ts/
teryasin.htm
If true, we should invade Bloomington, Indiana...
Gee Mitch you got slapped down hard. Better go tune in AM hate radio so you can be told what to think and say now.
moron
I have been advocating since Bush declared the war "over" for W's impeachment. Nixon lied about Watergate; Clinton lied about Lewinsky; Bush lied about WMDs, 9-11 connections and so on. What's the diff?
Scott Fanetti sez: "So I guess we should bomb Yemen, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, etc, etc, etc. Since the 9-11 bombers were from all of these countries, they should be considered the enemy. They should all be overthrown."
Don't forget that we've had more than enough American terrorists, too. McVeigh is an obvious one, as are all the "pro-life" terrorists who feel so free to murder in the name of their god. Do we target their home states? Or their ideological enablers in the Republican Party? Mitch? You still there? Little help?
Mitch,
Sorry, but you don't have much of a future as a troll.
At least Damaged Egg would have changed the subject 3 or 4 times by now and said 'a million Mogadishus' at least twice.
So, now that the crimes are becoming clear, even to the most reluctant observer, what will be the punishment, and how will it be pursued?
So, now that the crimes are becoming clear, even to the most reluctant observer, what will be the punishment, and how will it be pursued?
Is this when we bring up the Duck Pit?
Alternately, a war crimes tribunal would be great. Alas, that's as unrealistic as impeachment. I'm just hopeful that kicking BushCo out of office will be a reality--probably setting the bar too low, but whatever.
Copernicus - "...what will be the punishment, and how will it be pursued?"
All I'm really interested in at this point is getting rid of them for good. Personally, I'd love to see Bush impeached, thoroughly disgraced and forced to resign. But I'll take anything that will get the damned neo-cons out of the White House. Then we can get busy on Congress.
Sorry if this has already been linked, but this Toles cartoon about Cheney is pure genius:
http://www.ucomics.com/tomtoles/...les/2003/09/16/
I'm walking on air. I'm so ready to be a proud Minnesotan again.
"He said, he said" may be fun for the fans of minutiae, but suck on this for a while:
"Half of Michigan voters don't want Bush re-elected"
http://www.detnews.com/2003/poli.../a01-
276741.htm
Mind you, he lost the state in '00, but "Popular Wartime President" is sounding more and more like a dream. He's got to have a MAJOR success before election time, and one that includes most of the troops returning home. The talk in the donut shops is that the boy didn't listen to his father and his father's friends.
Steve Paradis: "The talk in the donut shops is that the boy didn't listen to him father and his father's friends."
In other words, the boy has just dragged the entire country through his own Oedipal crisis.
Has anybody compared the Strib op-ed to Friedman's latest drivel?
The big thing that has happened in Iraq, which you can really feel when you're there, is that there is a 100 percent correlation of interests between America's aspirations for Iraq and the aspirations of Iraq's silent majority. We both want the same thing for Iraq — that it not become Iran, that it not become Saddam, but that it become a decent, modern-looking Iraqi alternative. This overlap of aspirations is hugely important. This is not Vietnam.
Over at B3, I compare Friedman to Dennis Hopper's character in 'Apocalypse Now.' At this point, that's how much sense Friedman is making.
Editorials aren't signed because they represent the "institutional view" of the newspaper. You can't just write what you want; you must convince the other members of the editorial staff of your perspective, and the publisher must sign off.
This is a very old tradition; indeed newspapers grew out of editorials, not the reverse. It is stretched a bit now that publishers are no longer owners of most newspapers, but hired managers; but that has its benefits too. Most newspaper publishers no longer use the editorial page for personal political purposes.
Got a kick out of this Sunday comic Non Sequitur on WMD
Go JimJ! [I think that was the Strib's editorial writer's name in comments below]
That was Jim Boyd, and yes it did sound like this latest piece was from him as well.
Once again, Jim B: Thank you.
"Half of Michigan voters don't want Bush re-elected"
http://www.detnews.com/2003/poli.../a01-
276741.htm
I think the pie graph is wrong there. Shouldn't the 49% piece be bigger than the 44% piece?
>The strib is really tearing it up. I was so proud that I sent them a letter, and they published it.
>http://www.startribune.com/stories/563/
4107897.html
>Erik | Email | Homepage | 09.20.03 - 10:44 pm | #
Thanks, Erik!
They're under serious attack from a coordinated "flood the zone" GOP e-mail campaign. Yet they're refusing to knuckle or even buckle.
Mitch,
The logical extension of your argument leads us to the inevitable conclusion that Kevin Bacon is the source of all that is evil. Based on this assessment it is clear that we should launch an immediate, preemptive attack on his home in Malibu.
You may now return to your favorite AM radio for more Kool-Aid.
Someone's bread is buttered at the StarTrib....and he was vay-wee,vay-wee ang-wee about last week's editorial. Gosh, now here's another. Stay tooned for more from the mad Minnesotan.
Bx is very vain. As his administration crumbles, we can expect him to put his hand in his shirt, march around on the poopdeck shouting orders, and demanding his milk and pudding be tasted by a nun before he will eat it.
No, wait...that's Clark.
Sorry (couldn't resist).
In anything like a pluralistic, democratic society, getting to where Bx is the death of a thousand hammers. So hooray for anyone and everyone who can figure out some way to drop birdcrap on Bx's golf hat. Cumulative spattering will perform miracles--especially because Bx's teflon is mostly on the inside of his brain and in the lying press. Once the illusion fades and the truth is out, he will be investigated and a conviction is maybe the only way people, even previous supporters, will feel clean again.
My name is Dennis Metea, I'm 52 and I live in Dearborn, Michigan...my neighborhood...is very heavy Arabic, it's dynamic... why don't you, or any celebrity journalist, investegate this part of one of America's "interesting" towns? Journalism and politics are two unbelieveable sources of "not much-ness."
-dennis and maybe a few Americans...
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