HULK SMASH!!!
We just need to think more like Microsoft. No hollow middles there.
Well, speaks volumes about Rummy's plan to reformat the military. Since he's a member of the Cabal, wouldn't one think that he would have some plan in place for the perpetual war they wanted to wage? I always knew Rumsfeld was repugnant and despicable, but I somehow didn't realize he isn't very bright until fairly recently.
You have to wonder how the US could have handled a REAL war... you know, the kind that's forced on you.
A real war means a real draft. In CA when I grew up to get a driver's license I had to register for the draft. It's all still there, you know, they just have to flip the switch.
We use mechanzied forces far too much. Light infrantry would be far better. We spend trillions on machines that can't do anything but blow stuff up. So dumb.
*sigh* We need to get our men away from those ridiculous machines, but even as we speak the Army is getting ground down. Man something has to give, soon.
If the Koreans get twitchy take a good, long look at your teen male relatives. They'll be gone very before you know it.
I pray we don't have to fight a real war anytime soon. The military is stretched far too thin just fighting the Faith-Based War--any real crisis would either snap it or force uncomfortable changes, either a draft or deserting Iraq and Afghanistan altogether.
At least then, Shrub wouldn't have to do any of that damn nation-building crap. Not that we're doing any now...
It would be pretty hard to institute a draft in time to put together a force to answer a serious threat. Hell, all the commanders are overseas, too.
Bush and the Cabal have managed to put us in the most vulnerable position I can ever remember our being in. All this, just to look tough.
The article I read about the reserves stated those that COULD would be put on alert. Something about the older out of shape guys not being able to go.
I imagine the same holds true for the Guard as well.
POS - Now I feel really safe. Jeebus, and Osama is where?
If things get bad enough, they'll take the older, out of shape guys, too.
>If things get bad enough, they'll take the older, out of shape guys, too.
Uh oh. Looks like my strategy of being old and out of shape may not work after all...
Was the question of drafting women ever settled?
Try harder.
If things get bad enough, they'll take the older, out of shape guys, too.
Not for a long time.
1st, illegals
2nd high school kids
3rd twenty year old unemployed
Won't get to the old out of shape guys, for quite a while.
Was the question of drafting women ever settled?
Tena
Sure, draft em, send em into combat.
I imagine you can pull a trigger just as well as I can. So can gay guys and gals.
And, no problem with women raping Iraqi men.
POS - yeah, but you know, we get all PMS-ey, and the next thing you know we're mowing down an entire cafe full of Iraqi men just because we're retaining fluid.
POS - yeah, but you know, we get all PMS-ey, and the next thing you know we're mowing down an entire cafe full of Iraqi men just because we're retaining fluid.
Tena
Hell they do it now, and they don't have the fluid to retain.
Lately I've been reading about reserve and National Guard units returning from lengthy deployments at bases inside the US. One unit spent 6 months at Fort Hood, waiting to be sent to Iraq, but were never sent overseas. And all this time, the military is complaining they don't have enough boots on the ground. Not only are they wasting the assets they do have, they're insuring that none of these NG and reservists will re-enlist.
I swear to god I think that Rumsfeld is an old Soviet sleeper agent who has lost his mind and still thinks his mission is to bring down the capitalist pig US. Is there any other plausible explanation for his utter destruction of our military?
They want to motivate the youth vote? Reinstate the draft.
That is pretty much the ONE thing that would be sure to elect a Dem to replace Bush.
You could run Hillary Rodham Clinton if Bush was threatening to draft the MTV generation into Iraq.
Those kids smell bullshit a mile away. They would vote Bush out so fast his head would never stop spinning.
They'll "support" a war, because they're ignorant and self-obsessed. Actually *fight* in said war? You're out of your mind.
After GWI, Daddy Bush reportedly called Reagan to thank him for leaving him such fine defense forces.
The next president is going to bitch-slap Bush and Rumsfield on national television.
Molly, NYC - I can't wait to see that.
Re: "They want to motivate the youth vote? Reinstate the draft."
Question: if Bushco try to widen the war to Syria or Iran, will we go?
Or better yet, can we go?
Why do reservists hate America?
Tena,
Thanks-
I have a question about the reservest's commitment. If their time in the military is up when they are deployed in Iraq does that mean they automaticaly get to go home on the first boat out or do the feds get to keep them till they "say" they get to come home? I guess I'm wondering if no one is re-uping then can they force the guys and gals that already in the military to stay?
Rob
Rob,
There is currently in place a Stop-Loss order, that prevents soldiers reaching thier ETS (end time of service) date from outprocessing from the military (Army in particular). So any soldier/airman/marine/sailor whose term of service is up, is SOL until the Stop-Loss Order is rescinded.
The worst part about the whole thing is not the Stop-Loss but the fact that the Army is rotating Officers out of Iraq, so that they can all get combat time. Of course the enlisted soldiers have to stick it out, while they get to watch their officers leave.
That anonymous was me.
Actually I think ETS stands for Expired Term of Service, if it matters to anyone.
David (Austin TX): Ah. But due to the stop-loss order, no one can officially decline to re-enlist, we have no data, just anecdotes that many will decline to re-enlist.
They are intentionally destroying our military, intentionally destabilizing everything they can. I believe the CIA bombed the UN building, for instance.
Draft, yes. Martial law, yes. But the main effect they are seeking is Nuclear bombs, yes. When the military is too damaged to respond to a crisis, Mr. H-Bomb will 'have to' be used.
People waiting for next year's primary to Get behind the Governor are really f*king up.
Clark is a disaster, I know people won't agree. I suspect he is more of a 'hammer, everything a nail' sort, and who knows what his connections to PNAC, via the Pentagon's eternally weird cabals. With the military trashed, we need a general on our side, but putting him at executive is so dangerous I can't even imagine what people are thinking (other than, what seems to me, more of the same they've been thinking).
We.Are.So.Screwed.
"I'm 4-H. That means in case of invasion, I'm taken hostage."
----The Woodman.
Taking the reserves to war footing is called a "political invisible draft"..
OT, but another American slips through the cracks
From Yahoo
And a poor choice of words from the article, or subtle hint?
Yee arrived at the camp at a critical time, when officials were trying to jolt the interrogation process into high-gear.
One thing you can count on: there will be no draft talk from this administration before Nov. 2, 2004. After that... screw 'em, anyway, because they're gonna be gone.
OT: According to Robert Fisk the chaos in Iraq is so terrible that about a thousand people get killed every week - by looters, in revenge killings, by Americans.
According to Thomas Friedman "the ministers are getting the government running, normality is returning to many streets."
This is very confusing. Who to believe? 
I think that a draft is unlikely, it was one of the few strokes of genius Richard Nixon ever had when he abolished it. A large chunk of the anti-war people were really just anti-my-getting-sent-to-Vietnam people. As soon as the draft was ended they melted away, if it hadn't ended they wouldn't have had the time to produce disco.
But if they do try to reinstitute the draft we have got to make sure that it covers everyone including the Bush twins. No exemptions except medical ones, no college, no divinity school, no COs. Maybe if the naughty little boys who type dirty on these posts were subject to the draft it would lead them to them think.
But if they do try to reinstitute the draft we have got to make sure that it covers everyone including the Bush twins. No exemptions except medical ones, no college, no divinity school, no COs.
Nice idea. Never happen. I can see the draft registration form. Name, SSN, Political Party- or Parents political Party. If you check Republican, skip to last page and go home. If you check Democrat, finish form and go see barber.
Think about it though. If you had to be in a foxhole with a few buddies who may have to save your life, would you want Democrats or Republicans.
"George W, you keep an eye on the rear for sneak attacks. George...George...Where the fuck did he go?"
No, it probably won't happen but let's bring it up anyway. I think the essential problem is making the rich pay for their wars of conquest with their money and their children. Let's start by bringing up their exemptions every chance we get. If the right wing gets tired of hearing it, so what? Repitition is the only way of teaching people who refuse to reason for themselves. The Republica
media has proven that you can sell the American public the most ridiculous lies by repeating them ad nauseum, it should be easier to sell them the truth.
Just remember that Cheney had "other priorities", David Stockman was in divinity school, ....
The goal is to stop them from having thier wars for profit.
But if they do try to reinstitute the draft we have got to make sure that it covers everyone including the Bush twins. No exemptions except medical ones, no college, no divinity school, no COs.
No. Fucking. Way. Pardon my Freedom, but it is absolutely imperative to retain CO status.
The Selective Service website has all the information you guys are looking for.
1. It'll take six months from the order to re-institute the draft until the first draftees go to boot camp.
2. Women are still ineligible for the draft.
3. Deferments: The only deferments are temporary ones for college. You can defer for one semester, or for up to one year if you are a college senior.
4. You can still declare yourself a CO.
EPT:
"As soon as the draft was ended they melted away, if it hadn't ended they wouldn't have had the time to produce disco."
Nixon shifted from a draft allowing exemptions to a lottery with no exemptions. He did not end the draft, and the lottery system did not end anti-war protests. The draft wound down because we began to withdraw troops from Vietnam, thereby negating the necessity of drafting people. Nonetheless, you still had to register (I did so in July of 1972), and there was still voluble opposition to the war, even when it was being fought (on the ground) almost entirely by the South Vietnamese. Even Humphrey and Muskie ran as anti-war candidates in 1972. The notion that the anti-war forces faded away as soon as they realized they wouldn't be drafted is an urban legend.
wait a minute. wait a minute.
didn't GOD HIMSELF pick Great Leader to cleanse the world of terror??? well then why are things going so poorly???
oh Jeebus help us.
Going back to that stop-loss thingie -- here in New Jersey, a 50 year old reservist who was supposed to rotate out, of course, could not. There was a local story on how, before he was deployed, he left notes for his wife all over their house -- hidden in curtains, in pillows, etc. . . well, guess what? He died. And the government won't really say how. After she got the news, she was still finding his notes. . . they called it a "non-combat death," but won't provide her with any other information.
Very, very sad.
Soldiers caught in the Stop-Loss thing ARE hostages.
Sharkbabe - Yep, they are being held against their will. It seems strange to me that people whose terms are up can't leave.
didn't GOD HIMSELF pick Great Leader to cleanse the world of terror??? well then why are things going so poorly???
Apparently their god can kick his god's ass.
hudibrastic
Or gay
Or pull a Ted Nugent.
The stop loss only applies to selected career fields such as military police. Anyone who enlists has an automatic 8 year commitment. You might only serve 4 of those years active duty but you can be called up to serve out the rest of your commitment during the following four years. After that you are free.
The comments "they are hostages" and "they're held against their will" just proves that most of the posters on this site have no idea of what a serviceman is obligated to do. The contract they sign when they enlist is ironclad. Now the operative word is ENLIST, not drafted. They did it of their own volition (no one held a gun to their head while they signed on the dotted line). You might consider doing some research before spouting off on subjects you know little about.
Brownsdhirt S speaks like your typical moronic brownshirt fuck who's never come within 100 miles of a recruiting station.
In other words: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
dave - Hey! I wondered where you were.
Excuse me, Mr. MBF Switchblade, but my cousin's daughter married a marine last summer, whose 8 year term had expired. However, he wasn't allowed to leave the service because of the Stop/Loss order, even though he had done more than the required overseas duty.
Are the supposed "supporters of our troops" still running those "send books to the troops" campaigns? Let's all send them copies of Heller's "Catch 22."
There are only 5,000 reservists in Iraq; 7,000 in Kuwait. Calm down, everyone.
Brian - you know, that argument - "There are only 5,000 reservists in Iraq; 7,000 in Kuwait," reminds me of when I would try to get money out of my dad for something. I always said: "But Dad, it's only $400!" He didn't fall for it, either.
it will be almost amusing when they fugure out that they will have to start a draft.
I admit to not knowing much about how military recruiting works, having stayed far away from it all my life. However, I do know what I read in a newspaper NOT known for a liberal bias -- for whatever reason, the guy was supposed to be OUT, and his OUT was denied. And it still doesn't change the fact that they won't freakin' tell his wife what happened. And the guy was 50, for Pete's sake!
Slightly OT -- you all been reading about the four Jersey widows who keep hounding Bush, et. al? There was an article in the New York Observer not too long ago -- at one time, Bush supporters all. Now, boy are they pissed!
Hey! I wondered where you were.
I could say the same about you!
Here is a cute link with the enlistment contract. Read section 6.
http://www.army.mil/usapa/eforms...df/
A3286_65.PDF
The military can do just about anything they want to anyone under their control. Sorry but that is the way it works.
FYI I did enlist during the Viet Nam era and am familiar with basic training and all of the bs that comes with it.
Here is a link for the USAF enlistees who are under the stop loss program. Seems that not all career fields are under that program.
http://www.afpc.randolph.af.mil/...03(23Jun03)
.doc
Here is a link to the USMC stop loss program. Pretty good if you understand the lingo.
http://mcrsc.mfr.usmc.mil/Mob/St...FAQS%
20HQMC.doc
dave,
The DoD has halted (or at least had halted) packages sent to the troops. I was doing the adopt-a-soldier thing for a time, but that was the word that I recieved at the time.
I really should re-check the status now...
Bush and the Cabal have managed to put us in the most vulnerable position I can ever remember our being in. All this, just to look tough
bushco is to geopolitics what Mike Tyson is to boxing.
Brian, but there are also reserve and National guard combat formations in the former Yugoslavia, reserve and NG formations in Afganistan and reserve formations backfilling for the active duty units. You should also be aware that at least two more National Guard combat brigades are being mobilized to support the rotation of troops home. The reserves are stretched thin.
Fester
A large chunk of the anti-war people were really just anti-my-getting-sent-to-Vietnam people.
And a large chunk of the pro-war people were really just pro-someone-else-getting-sent-to-Vietnam people.
Our current C-in-C, for example.
-
The NY Times is reporting that enlistments are up, due to the Bx economy. Nothing like the risk of becoming homeless to get people to sign up and take the risk of being mowed down as cannon fodder.
Anti-getting-sent-to-Vietnam is what is called SANITY. You warhawks ought to check that stuff out some time. It's more fun than inanity, which seems to be what the Bx-Frankinegger GOP is racing to embrace.
As for 'war,' I know plenty of protestors who show the courage of their convictions on a weekly basis, going unarmed with anything but the truth into the teeth of a nation of riled up jingoists and half-trained cops. The ones with the courage in this situation are the ones who are fighting the LIARS AND THEIR LIES. It's so easy to fall for the con artist and the Neo-con artist press.
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