I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Frog march, frog march, frog march!
John Ashcroft is a "Fair and Balanced" person.
Fake. DOJ, Ashcroft, investigating Bushco.
Still working on that Enron thing aren't they?
As I understand it, DOJ doesn't really conduct an investigation; they make a determination as to whether an investigation should be conducted, and then hand it off to the FBI. A narrow point, perhaps, but there's a lot more room to kill this thing quietly on the factual end than the legal end, so I suspect it'll get to the FBI, and the real test will be how zealously they investigate.
Drip-drip-drip...
How many investigations does this make now? I swear by now we should know what brand of underware Shrub a Dub wore in high school yet we barely know what the hell he's thinking last week.
The FBI bette rnot drop the ball because I want my impeechment, god damn it!
DoJ will find there are no calico cats involved, thus no evil-doing. Upside: it won't cost the taxpayers tens of millions of dollars over several years; I estimate about 200 bucks and a couple days at most.
Aside from the frog march, what will be the smaller indications that this is moving forward and not just getting lip service?
My guess is this preliminary investigation will take about 15 months...
Follow the bouncing ball...
The CIA has done its own investigation and found evidence that merits DOJ action. So, if DOJ doesn't bring this to the FBI to investigate...ummm, well.
At least we will know who to blame.
BTW Josh Marshall is all over this:
"But news that the CIA has recommended an investigation of White House aides for criminal wrongdoing is a pretty big deal. So the fact that no one else has picked it up strikes me as odd."
It's more than odd, I say.
Once the rest of the media realize that the "White House Exclusive" they were promised if they sat on this story awhile turns out to be an extra picture of George and Pooty-Poot, the story will pick up speed.
I hope at least one of the White House press corps members has the sense to pose the question: "On (such & Such) a date a few months ago, the administration denied that anyone had spoken to Novak, as he claimed in his column. Do you stand by that denial"?
Democrats should be demanding a special prosecutor. Even without an independent counsel law, they can still politically pressure Ashcroft to appoint one. And hopefully the CIA will start leaking if Ashcroft stalls.
I still want to see Karl Rove, or whoever leaked, walking the perp walk in an orange suit and with handcuffs.
re: reluctance to jump in on this one, I'm not worried about the slow start. This is a sensational story, because there's really no argument that it's not an impeachable offense, and either Novak is simply lying or some people awfully close to Bush are in trouble. D.C. has been buzzing about this one for a couple months now, there's not a member of the press corps who isn't keeping an eye on it, and I think the pause we're seeing right now is everyone making sure they've got everything in position and waiting for the administration to make a move. This isn't a great story, after all, until somebody quashes it, or somebody denies doing anything, or the FBI formally starts an investigation.
Meanwhile, a bit of fun from Scotland:
Whisky of Mass Destruction - how the US spied on a tiny island distillery
. . . Mark Reynier, the managing director of the Port Charlotte distillery, found out that he was being spied on only when the Americans admitted it.
"Consider the most surreal scenario imaginable," he said.
"We install webcams to show the world our whisky is distilled traditionally. The US government apparently lock on to the web images, which they think look dodgy, but we, in Islay, don’t know that yet.
"We get an e-mail from ‘Ursula’ informing us one of our webcams is faulty.
"We reply, thanking her and inquire who she is.
"She admits she’s a spy, monitoring sites that potentially produce WMD. What’s the expression? Only in America!
...
Once "outed", Ursula’s bosses at the DTRA were quick to point out that they do not consider Bruichladdich to be a threat to world peace.
A spokesman said: "I am fairly certain that monitoring Scottish distilleries and checking webcams from time to time is not high on our list of missions.
"We all know about this day and age, when you can go to chemical-processing plants and somebody with another intent can take that equipment and create something that is not intended to be there.
"The United States is part of the Chemical Weapons Convention. That includes monitoring and visiting commercial facilities where they would be able to make chemical weapons."
Mr Reynier added: "We produce 16,000 cases a year, a weapon of mass drunkenness."
http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/ind...m?
id=1070422003
The republic party is the party of treason and sedition. Roverer probably leaks CIA agent identities to foreign governments for fun.
Even if Ashcroft intends a white wash it is problematical. Once these investigations get started, they take on a life of their own. And no one will want to destroy evidence or mislead, the best Ashcroft can hope for is stalling.
56k - Stalling is about his only option. He can't successfully fake an investigation for them - everyone will be watching him like a hawk. Everyone will know it's been a sham. So either way, real investigation or fake, they lose.
Next week, the White House will announce that L. Jean Lewis has been transferred to the DOJ and given charge of investigating the case.
With Henry Kissinger handling oversight.
here
is the story on Wall Street Journal online. How is it market news? Why doesn't anyone else report this?
http://tinyurl.com/owvd
DoJ works on Saturday? Cool.
Marshall just updated TPM, showing that CBS is also running the story now. Their headline is "A Vengeful White House?"
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/
2...ain575449.shtml
woo hoo! it's blowing up!
Break out the Crisco Johnny boy. This calls for some serious annointment.
Here's his chance to try out those fancy new extra constitutional tools he's been flashin'.
Treason in the highest reaches of the federal government! Surely there is something in the Patriot Act about this? I mean do we really need to have a trial? I'm almost certain that if we charge him, Mr. Rove wouldn't be entitled to a lawyer. After all, isn't Mr. Pedilla the precident.
Christ, what a bunch of loony whack jobs, and what a fine mess they've gotten themselves into!
Here's leadership. Dean is the first (hopefully not the only) Dem candidate to go public on this.
NYT has it now, with a quote from Schumer.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/2...&
partner=GOOGLE
Neiwart nails it.
BTW, didn't Dean comment on this some time ago? I could be wrong...
"I haven’t heard that. That’s just totally ridiculous, but we’ve already addressed this issue," White House Pres Secretary Scott McClellan said.
Arrgrgrgh, they've already addressed a totally ridiculous issue of which they've never heard?
Goddammit, I gotta learn me some more Newspeak.
Poor Scott McClellan.
Hey, Ari. How are you? Sleeping well?
pie - Don't worry about Scott; his grandmother, Carol Keaton _______ (new married name), Texas Comptroller, and "One Tough Grandma" (her campaign slogan) will come and rescue her babyboy, grandson Scott.
If I understand this thing correctly, it was Novak passing along info that a "senior administration official" gave him that outed Plame as an agent. Therefore Novak should be arrested. He can plea bargain a lighter sentence by giving up his source. So am I missing something here or is there a reason that nobody is talking about Novak's complicity in the matter?
Is it a crime if the President aquieced/approved the leak?
Hey, I remember something about George W. Bush claiming "there won't be a whiff of scandal in my administration" or something very similar. You know, that whole adults-are-in-charge joke.
The way he phrased it could clearly have foreshadowed they intended complete control of the corporate media. But now that there is a whiff of scandal I feel it's time to throw that back in his face and demand personal responsibility. Like any good CEO. *cough*
This only means Bush is gonna get writers cramp giving pardons after he loses in 2004.Its a pappy Bush redux ala Iran-Contra.Ken Lay is probably working underground trying to defeat Bush & get a pardon for himself.
Tena, the Bushies are way too inbred.
Time for a change.
Remember history.
The last administration to end prematurely in disgrace did not collapse over unjustified war built on lies, or mismanagement rationalized by foreign threats, or even personal weaknesses.
The last administration to implode did so after getting busted for pulling dirty, illegal tricks.
If I understand this thing correctly, it was Novak passing along info that a "senior administration official" gave him that outed Plame as an agent. Therefore Novak should be arrested. He can plea bargain a lighter sentence by giving up his source. So am I missing something here or is there a reason that nobody is talking about Novak's complicity in the matter?
Another Bruce | 09.27.03 - 9:39 pm |
According to the David Corn article that blew the roof off this case:
This is not only a possible breach of national security; it is a potential violation of law. Under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982, it is a crime for anyone who has access to classified information to disclose intentionally information identifying a covert agent. The punishment for such an offense is a fine of up to $50,000 and/or up to ten years in prison. Journalists are protected from prosecution, unless they engage in a "pattern of activities" to name agents in order to impair US intelligence activities. So Novak need not worry.
Another Bruce -
John Dean's 8/15/03 article discusses some of the applicable law and potential consequences for the WH leakers. However, he suggests that Novak, as a journalist - neither authorized to handle classified information, nor bound by the secrecy oaths of those who are so authorized - is protected by the 1st Amendment, barring any "pattern of activities" intended to reveal the identities of covert operatives.
For details, see the paragraphs about the Espionage Act of 1917 and The Intelligence Identities and Protection Act.
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dea...n/
20030815.html
Incidentally, as Marshall implies, the pressure on DOJ/FBI is going to be coming from the Senate--and some GOP senators, too. We might not hear anything for a while--I think everything will stay in back rooms for several weeks, although if the dem presidential candidates press it that might be accelerated a bit. Anyway, the cat is out of the bag.
snorfbat - ha! Same mission.
Under the 1982 law, and given the facts of the case, Novak isn't guilty of anything.
There are three types of people who would be charged under the law. The first are people who know the covert agent's identity and blow it. The second is people with access to information that allows them to find out the agent's identity and, directly or indirectly, blows their cover. The third group of people who could be charged are those who engage in a pattern of behaviour to blow the covers of covert agents.
If I knew a covert agent and blew their cover, I would be charged. If I had access to information that allowed me to figure out a covert agent's identity and let it out, I would be charged. If I was a journalist or individual who was going out of my way to blow the cover of agents, I would be charged.
If, however, I'm a journalist and someone calls and tells me the identity of an agent and I publish the story, I'm not guilty. If an agent gets tanked and tells me their cover and I tell a reporter, the reporter and I didn't do anything wrong, but the agent would be up the creek.
The law is written the way it is for First Amendment reasons. If it wasn't, then an agency could get rid of a reporter they didn't like by letting slip the identity of an agent and then charging the reporter if they publish the story, or by threatening the reporter.
This administration would do well to expose who talked to Novak right away and cut them loose.
Unless, of course, they are afraid that the "senior administration official(s)" would sing about lots of buried bodies if he/she/they aren't vigorously defended from exposure.
In the end the results will be the same, though. The Bushies will deal with whoever it is to keep lips zipped, and the word will go forth: The Sainted President and His Dear Friends Had No IDEA What I was Doing.
And then, half a dozen years from now, Zipper Lip will quietly reap some amazing rewards, like, oh, I don't know, a lucrative pundit gig, maybe?
It's going to be Iran-Contra, not Watergate.
Novak should under no circumstance be compelled to spill his guts. Even should a legal loophole excist to draw him into the investigation under penalty of law, he should clam up and and face the music. And, if worse came to worse, it couldn't happen to a nicer guy. After all, some of the world's greatest writing has been done behind bars ('My Struggle', by Robert Novak).
Earlier I asked, "Is it a crime if the President aquieced/approved the leak"? Anyone have a clue?
Thanks for the clarification, snorfbat and musing graze. There may be good first amendment related reasons for this exception, but it seems a bit curious to me. At any rate, you have to wonder about the reptilian morality of a guy like Novak, outing a CIA agent, endangering her and ruining her career to carry out a hatchet job for the bigger reptiles in the White House.
There has to be something in the Patriot act that will trump Novak's first amendment rights...he won't talk, but his notes and computer can...to have these guys hoisted on their own fascist petard would be delicious.
Another Bruce,
Maybe would should call "The Crocodile Hunter" to take care of these pesky reptilian nuisances.
("He's awwwffully grumpy
!...)
I still don't see anything in the Washington Post on this. But they did have this story, which shows a significant GOP congressman is concerned about WMD claims.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...-
2003Sep27.html
Wolf Blitzer: Karl, have you finished checking the copy yet. We really want to run the story on our website. We're looking bad.
Karl Rove: Knock it off, fuzzynuts! Don't try to f**k with me or I'll have you f**ked over really good, you got that?
Wolf Blitzer: Oh Karl, I love it when you talk rough!
Come on folks, must this distract the FBI from New Orleans whorehouse investigations and medical marijuana case prosecutions? Let's now be realistic.
Just to be clear, not only does CBS have the story, but it was their lead story on the evening news tonight. It's out there.
Hunter,
I have every available appendage crossed.
You know it's a good story when Josh Marshall is posting on a Saturday night!
Is it a crime if the President aquieced/approved the leak.
Almost certainly. If you could get someone to say "Bush knew about this leak" under oath.
No one who is in a position to say that about Bush has the slightest compunction about falling on his sword to protect the man. They are all single-minded cult-of-personality types, selected for this trait above all else. Republicans value party loyalty, and the Bushies have, for decades, taken this to the extreme in their political circles. You work with the Bush GOP camp, you are loyal to Bush first, GOP second, and the USofA a distant 3rd.
That is what you're up against trying to pin this on Bush. I would be shocked if they were that sloppy/disorganized to let this blowback onto Dear Leader.
Some flunkies will take the fall for this. It's the smart thing to do.
I must agree w/Sovereign Eye. Wonderful as it would be to see "No Facts" Novak in an orange jumpsuit. It is far more important to protect the first amendment. Just as the major religions will defend scoundrels like Falwell and Robertson, and the New York Times will defend people like Larry Flynt, we sometimes must hold our nose and stand for principle. Another Bruce is correct, Novak showed the ethics of a lizard in running the story, but that's no surprise from him.
We must remeber that to protect him is also to protect Krugman, Ivins, Corn, etc.. Unpleasant, but necessary.
Selah.
ah, we must remember...
More liquor!
After all, some of the world's greatest writing has been done behind bars ('My Struggle', by Robert Novak).
"My Life as Bubba's Cell Bitch"
by Karl Rove
In Novak's defense, there is also nothing that indicates that he was blowing a covert agent's cover - just saying somebody works for the CIA is not a criminal act.
i bet the only one with insomnia is Laura.
In all of this, no discussion of the senior administration official who actually confirmed the story.
Here's who I think it is: http://tinyurl.com/ox9i
pansypoo,
Yeah, but she's been dealing with that for years.
And where are the twins?
Poor girls....
That Karl Rove-
He's no great piece of ass...
He just cried and screamed for his mommy.
I don't honestly think that the FBI can fuck this investigation up. They don't have to pursue it zealously, they just have to pursue it at all. They ask the White House to interview a few folks, and BushCo goes in to full panic mode, just like they did with the GAO over the energy taskforce. They won't let anybody talk without minders, they stonewall, they refuse to release documents. That's what's going to burn them. In the end, they'll have to throw somebody over the side (my best guesses - Rove and Cheney), and it will be that much worse for all the coverup they're going to try. Because they just don't learn.
Is it a crime if the President aquieced/approved the leak?
Conspiracy.
I would also argue a for a charge of treason against whoever did this.
Talk about being soft on national security... you can't get much softer than intentionally exposing one of our covert intelligence operatives.
Forget about who might investigate this.. The end result, as always, will be decided in the media. Will they put this on the front page? Color me cynical, but I say no way.
The "senior official": Tenet; today's Washington Post story just about gave it away. Remember, he isn't part of the Bush gang but was a Clinton holdover.
Novak's source: has to be someone who, at the least, knows someone with enough CIA clearance to be able to get the info. How nervous did Rice appear on MTP today?
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