I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Nice work by those newspapers to verify the letters...
i'm watching an hbo documentary showing footage of the collateral damage in Kosovo caused by the gutless air pirates Clinton and Clark. Wanna discuss, Gene, why they had to do it from 8-miles high? Because lying, gutless Bill had no political capital and he knew if more than 1 or 2 US pilots died, he'd be in deep shit, that's why. So, the civilians had to suffer. Don't talk to me about Iraq, fuckface.
Clinton had no political capital because his enemies would not leave him alone about so many trivial things. I think that Clinton would have more forcefully gone after Bin Laden, but of course, we all know what the republicans would have said: "He's fighting a war to distract us from Monica." Think about it...
"i'm watching an hbo documentary showing footage of the collateral damage in Kosovo caused by the gutless air pirates Clinton and Clark. Wanna discuss, Gene, why they had to do it from 8-miles high? Because lying, gutless Bill had no political capital and he knew if more than 1 or 2 US pilots died, he'd be in deep shit, that's why. So, the civilians had to suffer. Don't talk to me about Iraq, fuckface.
lookout b'low me--10.11.03 - 8:54 am"
That's funny, because at this moment HBO is showing "Spiderman"--you must have Clinton and Clark confused with the Green Goblin, or that tinfoil hat has some amazing reception.
once again, banned by gene. you really are a pathetic little pussy, lyons.
Hey lookout, why don't you go see the Army recruiter? Maybe you can get up close and personal with a RPG round so you can prove that you're not a pussy.
First of all Wesley Clark wanted to send in ground troops, but was overruled.
Second, Atrios isn't Gene Lyons.
Bullshit. I get 14 HBOs, and there's no documentary showing on any of them.
ZZzzzzZZZZZ b'low
Today's Olympian has a story on this:
http://www.theolympian.com/home/...ge/
121390.shtml
Back to the letter. What a blatant piece of propaganda that is. It sounds like one of George Bush's rah-rah speeches. Part of the new publicity campaign being waged perhaps? You know, the "people arent't hearing enough good news about Iraq" angle.
Maybe someone should send out the blog posting about the awful situation Iraqi women are now facing.
Disgusting.
Karl Rove must have come up with a new hard push campaign. Dispicable.
Well, well.
The letters are identical and appear to be a campaign to present a positice picture of the U.S. occupation.
Although Grueser said he agrees with the letter's sentiments, he was uncomfortable that a letter with his signature did not contain his own words or spell out his own accomplishments.
"It makes it look like you cheated on a test, and everybody got the same grade," Grueser said by phone from a base in Italy where he had just arrived from Iraq.
Well, the liberal media needs to hear a few lies to innoculate against its own and we need to hear some good news, the media would rather suck Saddam's dick and take your gun.
positiVe picture
While I agree that this is not the optimal way to get one's message across, I must admit that I have done something similar.
When I was a foolish youth, I used to be something of a liberal. Me and my friends would sometimes get together to send these aerograms to dictators and their pals. And while we didn't write identical words, we relied on the same information (from Amnesty International, "Urgent Action" stuff).
So I personally find it hard to criticize this particular deed.
p.s. of course we didn't sign other people's names to our aerograms. or at least, i didn't. i seem to recall that a few letters were signed by "Elvis Presley" but I sure didn't do it.
The only major newspaper that's ever published me has been the Philadelphia Inquirer. I've been in there about ten times, and every time they've made me jump through hoops to prove I am who I say I am.
It was wrong by whoever distributed this letter to use the names and signatures of those soldiers without telling them. However, a majority of the soldiers agree with the content, so maybe things aren't so bad. I'm sure that the letter's a wee bit optimistic, but who better would know how things are going in Kirkuk than these very soldiers?
Another case of things are going better than we think, yet not as good as they should be or are reported.
[Serling] Presented for your consideration: the quintessential civility of the right. Note the ability to go from 'wanna discuss' to 'fuckface' within 50 words.
Just one of the amazing hypocrises of...the blogosphere.
[/Serling]
I think there were only 7 or 8 that actually got published.
If the Olympian story is correct, they scotched two additional ones sent to their paper.
I suspect a lot of papers around the country did the same thing.
So, perhaps the fact that this wasn't even more widespread [unlike those ridiculous "President Bush is showing genuine leadershi[p" letters], is a positive sign?
I updated my post with exceprts from the Olympian article. It also contans links to as many of the bogus letters as I could find online.
Many thnaks to Atrios and Buzzflash for linking to me and publicizing this. Also, thanks to Gene Gaudette at AmericanPolitics.com for drawing my attention to it.
You slithering snivelling spineless liberal commie anti-Bush anti-USA pukes make me sick. Move to France.
This all fits in with the present "Who ya gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?" campaign now being pushed by the W maladministration. Their insistence that the media concentrate more on the "good news" emanating from Iraq may help W in the forthcoming election, but I don't think it will have much effect on the Iraqi bitter-enders. W would be better served by improving conditions in Iraq rather than by sending out his PR flacks on a massive re-indoctrination blitz.
One of the soldiers who "signed" the letter was injured in a booby-trap explosion AFTER the "everything is going great" letters were sent out.
Ironic, huh?
i'm watching an hbo documentary showing footage of the collateral damage in Kosovo caused by the gutless air pirates Clinton and Clark.
I disagreed with Clinton on this, but I'll note that he did not ignore the community of nations in Kosovo. You'll recall the Europeans wanted us involved, and we engaged under the auspices of NATO. Further, Clinton didn't totally alienate UNSC members, and was able to get support for UN peacekeeping forces in Kosovo after the Serbian campaign.
And for you wingers who like to keep score, the civilian deaths (which I deplore absolutely) were an order of magnitude less than Bush's butcher bill thus far, and Clinton didn't kill any US troops. Oh, and he was upfront as to why we were fighting. Other than that, yeah, these are moral equivalents.
On topic: I'm surprised the war apologists didn't try this method earlier. Now it smacks of desperation.
You slithering snivelling spineless liberal commie anti-Bush anti-USA pukes make me sick. Move to France.
I hope this is satire, but something tells me not. Shining example of "civility" on the Right. But if we counter with the duck pit, all of a sudden we're being uncivil.
Yeah right, MBF and lookout, go to hell where you belong.
P.S.: Anonymous Troll. Your discourse is civil, and I wish more conservatives would argue at your level.
I'm sure he felt the same afterwards Hesiod, dont be such a prissy wissy..
You liberals have never been civil and will do ANYTHING to GET and MAINTAIN POWER. Unlike upstanding American heroes like our President and his advisors, who you envy and trash at every turn. You will be sorry, ooooooohhhhh, YOU WILL BE SORRY. WE ARE TAKING OUR COUNTRY BACK.
MBF has to be satire.
His/her/its comments are so idiotic, that no one could be that stupid, and yet be able to type and breathe at the same time.
MEMO
To: Traditional Conservatives
Re: Where the fuck are you?
I'm a traditional foreign policy conservative, yet I wonder at the Republican's spineless subservience to the neo-conservatives' agenda. The PNAC agenda is anathema both to liberals and conservatives. Why have you let these radicals hijack your party? Why aren't you doing anything to stop them from wrecking the once proud and honorable Republican Party?
Wake the fuck up, and smell the goddamn coffee.
Thank you,
Adam 4-4-2
WE ARE TAKING OUR COUNTRY BACK.
Back to the 1800's.
MBF: "You liberals have never been civil and will do ANYTHING to GET and MAINTAIN POWER."
Ha.
Shady Florida elections, impeachment, recalls, underhanded redistricting in Texas - you think it's liberals who will do anything?
Liberals haven't done anything to get in power recently with the exception of getting the most votes.
Pie:
Back to 1800s? More like back to 1400s. The Inquisition was a faith-based organization.
WE ARE TAKING OUR COUNTRY BACK.
Back to the 1800's.
Manifest Destiny!
Be prepared to see more of this dreck over the next few weeks, at least. The latest repug meme: that damn liberal media isn't showing all the really nifty things we're doing in Iraq to piss away billions of dollars and quite a few lives.
I predict a bunch of yummy, sunshiney day clips on CNN showing our troops patting little kids on the head, L.P.Bremer laying cornerstones for new schools, and interviews with kindly old shopkeepers who say how great it is that we're over there helping out.
Of course, they'll screen out the large crowds of pissed-off demonstrators upset that the boys just shot a bunch of cops or a family out for a drive.
About the heart felt form letters from our erstatz boys in Iraq. I smell the Republican National Committe's hands on this one. It's obvious, they studied Nixon's crimes, that's their real road map to taking over the country.
OT: Now, now boys and girls. We should be nice to the freepers, dittoheads and other wing-nuts present. After all they did just find out that one of their semi-god heros is a pill-poppin, drug-running, lying hypocrite. They must be in pain.
Oh yeah, I hope he isn't subjected to any of that "inter-racial" rape when they put him away...............
MBF: "You liberals have never been civil and will do ANYTHING to GET and MAINTAIN POWER."
What a liar, just remember who came up with the charming idea of "ratfucking". The Republicans don't have any value higher than taking as much money as they can so they've never held back their most demented and amoral efforts.
Hey MBF and Lookout why don't you guys go back to trolling the Yahoo! message boards? Right now, for example, Yahoo News is running a story about how Louis Armstrong's home is being reopened as a museum. Trust me, you guys will find the discussion of that topic, shall we say, more suitable to your level.
See, a guy that signs himself "MBF" is pretty much advertising the fact that he's kidding.
Of course, as Tom Lehrer once said, satire died when Kissinger won the Nobel Peace Prize...
Somebody needs to find the papers that published these letters and send them this post. I head those emails "You got suckered." Hesiod has the links.
As to MBF, that's for "moronic" etc. My hunch is that s/he's GOP, but exaggerating it to try to get a rise. Fair enough.
MBF = Moronic Brownshirt Fuck, a long standing in-joke here and elsewhere on the left wing blogosphere. It's satire folks.
The problem is that nowdays it's hard to distinguish satire from the real thing.
The problem is that nowdays it's hard to distinguish satire from the real thing.
You're joking, right?
Reminds me of that Simpsons episode when Homer goes on the road with Smashing Pumpkins...
You know, I would tell you guys how foolish it is for you to regularly complain about a lack of civility on the part of conservatives in general, while at the same time uniformly labelling those same conservatives as "moronic brownshirt fucks" -- except that it happens to serve my nefarious conservative purposes for this blog to remain forever a cesspool of idiocy.
Indeed, this is the first line of defense that protects the average independent-minded person who stumbles across these pages from making the grave error of taking them seriously.
It's like my momma always said: a blogger is known by the company (s)he keeps.
Received in comments at my blog:
baloney -- liar. the civilian toll in Kosovo was much higher.
lookout b low me | 10.11.03 - 11:26 am | #
My reply:
The civilian toll in Kosovo was from Serbian atrocities. The civilian toll in Serbia was reported by the Serbs to be about 500:
http://www.serbia-info.com/news/...4/23/
11210.html
STFD and STFU.
I should clarify: the large civilian toll that we've heard in Kosovo were killings by Serbs. However, some air strikes from Operation Allied Force were in Kosovo, and "between 56 and 60 percent of the total number of deaths-were in Kosovo", according to HRW. They agree with the offical Serbian reports of 500 civilian deaths from the air war.
Anyone have a take on the legality of using military personnel to conduct domestic political campaign work such as this??
Friends are forwarding emails to my inbox from family members serving in Iraq. Big disconnect between these thoughtful accounts from young people on the ground and this astroturf campaign.
Spike - any chance you could post some excerpts, without violating privacy?
Anonymous Troll--welcome to the Internet. All discussion forums on
Goddamn haloscan. Take two:
Anonymous Troll--welcome to the Internet. All discussion forums on all topics periodically descent into namecalling without aggressive moderation.
To suggest that this somehow discredits this blog is silly (and your average independent-minded person would be horrified by some of the right-wing blogs). I think it says far more about human nature and the dangers of anonymity than it does about this blog.
Oh, yeah, things are going goddamned well.
See, they don't value life like we do. So when you slaughter their familiies, as long as they have running water and electricity, they forget to hate you after a week or two.
You blow their child into pnut butter on the wall, and they, being dumb Arabs, DON'T hate you forever. They don't strap on an AK and a rocket launcher if they can hock their goat for one, and go out looking for revenge. They line up and wait for a job, patiently.
Things are going swell. Destroy their Koran Repository, burning the most ancient of Korans into charcoal, and they don't hate you forever. They don't really take that religion seriously.
Bx and junta are NOT seeking stability, so how are things getting better? They are building AIRBASES, while wanking all over your face with their lies. WWIII is right around the corner, but numbnuts like you think it's getting better there. How is the view up your own ass?
M.,
Perhaps you are right. But your pragmatic attitude suggests that you may be a closet conservative. Liberals are supposed to be more hopeful about the perfectability of human society.
(Or maybe that's progressives... never could keep that straight.)
Liberals are supposed to be more hopeful about the perfectability of human society.
Having hope in the perfectability of human society means we assume we're not perfect. All else follows from there...
OT: where'd "blow me" go? I'm so looking forward to a citation or two from him about civilian casualties. I was pretty sure he wanted to engage in serious, reasonable debate...
Anonymous troll, posters who make intelligent comments are never attacked. Ever. Your comment is unfair generalization, and I resent it. There's much good insight and information here mixed in with the immature, ad hominem garbage. It's easy to scroll past that stuff; reasonal discourse is not an option.
Your superior attitude is boring. Why come here if it's so beneath your sensibility?
People see what they want to see...
Back on topic, how do we get the mainstream media to do a story on this?
JWC, The Olympian, (Olympia, WA) already published a story about it. Will other papers pick it up?
http://www.theolympian.com/home/...ge/
121390.shtml
I think someone in the SCLM failed to get the memo concerning where their duty lies in regards to this letter strategy?
I'm sure those who chose to persue this avenue will be getting visits, and soon.
So long suckas'!
MYOB'
.
at least Clinton's 'wars' were humanitarian instead of a vote/oil grab by the aWol chimperor.
Remember serveral months ago when they tried this? And people around the Blogosphere picked it up and informed many newspapers of the exinstance of these things?
Why do you think this Astroturf mission failed, relativly speaking?
Good job all!
Search on google for this: The quality of life and security for the citizens has been largely restored
It shows 4 papers ran it with 4 different names.
Anonymous Troll--I could be a conservative when we have a competent, adult conservative party in this country.
Seriously, the GOP seems to have lost its mind. Despite control of both houses of Congress and the Presidency, the GOP has managed to create a huge budget deficit. You can't blame it all on the war on terror, as domestic spending is also rising at a ridiculous rate.
They've managed to do serious damage to our army and our national security. With its preemptive war against Iraq, we've overextended our army and done serious damage to our reserve system. Additionally, we've created a training ground for future terrorists, much in the same way that Afghanistan was a training ground for Al Qaeda. The White House is so careless of national security that they're willing to reveal the identities of covert CIA operatives in order to discredit opponents.
I won't even go into its support for creationism...
Adam 4-4-2,
I suspect you are referring to public figures, but I thought I'd mention that the "traditional foreign policy conservatives" I know are, to a person, dismayed and disgusted. This includes my former landlord (a 25-year Army vet) and my investment advisor (a retired Lt. Colonel and VMI grad), both of whom think invading Iraq was a terrible decision. It also includes everyone in my family over 60, all of them until very recently annoying rock-ribbed Pennsylvania Republicans. The thing is, appalled as they are by Bush, none are activists by nature, and they aren't likely to make themselves heard until next year. They might have a hard time voting for an "insider" Democrat like Gephart, Kerry, or Lieberman (in other words, they probably would make a conscious decision not to vote), but Clark or Dean could very well get their support (if Dean can shake his undeserved "leftist firebrand" image).
The "responsible" candidates (ie not Kucinich) have taken the view that what is done is done, we cannot fail, and we must support the $87 billion program in Iraq. Dean is the best example.
Are not the Democrats missing out on a chance to radically differentiate themselves from the president on Iraq?
The American people want out, and why can't the Democrats put forward a program of accelerated Iraqification as was done in Vietnam. There is a huge political opportunity being squandered here.
As for the idiot that claims 'they' are taking the country back...
Go ahead and try. But you might have to have a real army, and not just fake their signatures on letters to do it.
Wow. Sending faked letters to newspapers? This story is straight from the Department of Misinformation. What ever happened to that Department? Oh yeah. It no longer exists. So, I guess we can rest easy with a forthcoming explaination that the faked letters were unintentionally sent to newspapers without the soldiers' knowledge. That the senders just forgot to tell the "writers" that they popped the letters in the mail.
Just remember, the deficit was not an accident. It is a well thought out plan. The next step will be massive cutting of government programs like privitzation of soc sec. Then another round of tax cuts.....
If these propaganda activities weren't so sad (in the fact that there are so many sheeple who believe them because they want to beleive we would never do any harm or wrong and so don't go further to see other data - their newspapers says it's good so why doubt?) they would be funny. Too bad so many people don't have internet access, or if they do, they look at CNN, FOX, MSNBC, Drudge, etc.. for their news. They would never look at any of these other sites such as whatreallyhappened.com because that spreads leftist propaganda.
Here's a nice uplifting story about just how our boys and girls are going about making everything groovy over there in Iraq, when they're not too busy writing letters to the editor.
US soldiers bulldoze farmers' crops
Americans accused of brutal 'punishment' tactics against villagers, while British are condemned as too soft
By Patrick Cockburn in Dhuluaya
12 October 2003
US soldiers driving bulldozers, with jazz blaring from loudspeakers, have uprooted ancient groves of date palms as well as orange and lemon trees in central Iraq as part of a new policy of collective punishment of farmers who do not give information about guerrillas attacking US troops.
The stumps of palm trees, some 70 years old, protrude from the brown earth scoured by the bulldozers beside the road at Dhuluaya, a small town 50 miles north of Baghdad. Local women were yesterday busily bundling together the branches of the uprooted orange and lemon trees and carrying then back to their homes for firewood.
Nusayef Jassim, one of 32 farmers who saw their fruit trees destroyed, said: "They told us that the resistance fighters hide in our farms, but this is not true. They didn't capture anything. They didn't find any weapons."
Other farmers said that US troops had told them, over a loudspeaker in Arabic, that the fruit groves were being bulldozed to punish the farmers for not informing on the resistance which is very active in this Sunni Muslim district.
"They made a sort of joke against us by playing jazz music while they were cutting down the trees," said one man. Ambushes of US troops have taken place around Dhuluaya. But Sheikh Hussein Ali Saleh al-Jabouri, a member of a delegation that went to the nearby US base to ask for compensation for the loss of the fruit trees, said American officers described what had happened as "a punishment of local people because 'you know who is in the resistance and do not tell us'." What the Israelis had done by way of collective punishment of Palestinians was now happening in Iraq, Sheikh Hussein added.
The destruction of the fruit trees took place in the second half of last month but, like much which happens in rural Iraq, word of what occurred has only slowly filtered out. The destruction of crops took place along a kilometre-long stretch of road just after it passes over a bridge.
Farmers say that 50 families lost their livelihoods, but a petition addressed to the coalition forces in Dhuluaya pleading in erratic English for compensation, lists only 32 people. The petition says: "Tens of poor families depend completely on earning their life on these orchards and now they became very poor and have nothing and waiting for hunger and death."
The children of one woman who owned some fruit trees lay down in front of a bulldozer but were dragged away, according to eyewitnesses who did not want to give their names. Th
Fucking Haloscan, I guess. Here's the URL if you want the rest of Patrick Cockburn's story about our little indulgence in collective punishment.
http://news.independent.co.uk/wo...sp?
story=452375
And here's the rest of it in case you don't want to go get it.
The children of one woman who owned some fruit trees lay down in front of a bulldozer but were dragged away, according to eyewitnesses who did not want to give their names. They said that one American soldier broke down and cried during the operation. When a reporter from the newspaper Iraq Today attempted to take a photograph of the bulldozers at work a soldier grabbed his camera and tried to smash it. The same paper quotes Lt Col Springman, a US commander in the region, as saying: "We asked the farmers several times to stop the attacks, or to tell us who was responsible, but the farmers didn't tell us."
Informing US troops about the identity of their attackers would be extremely dangerous in Iraqi villages, where most people are related and everyone knows each other. The farmers who lost their fruit trees all belong to the Khazraji tribe and are unlikely to give information about fellow tribesmen if they are, in fact, attacking US troops.
Asked how much his lost orchard was worth, Nusayef Jassim said in a distraught voice: "It is as if someone cut off my hands and you asked me how much my hands were worth."
Cute, huh?
To the above:
Believe me, the Bush syndicate wouldn't have gone to this much trouble for Israel. It's the oil/money. EVERYTHING the Bush syndicate does if for the money. While it might fit into the demented dreams of PNAC et al, the Israel angle is just a side show. After all if Bush co. really cared about Israel they'd have tried to get a peace agreement before they needed the "Road Map" for cover. I doubt that before then Collin Powell would have as much as gotten up from his breakfast table to make peace in the middle east.
Sharon, on the other hand, only cares about his own power and his legend. Not being the first choice for rational voters, he depends on the psychopaths in the settler movement to maintain his power and will never, ever make peace. I suspect, or hope and pray, that most Israelis will eventually see that the Likud line is just going to get more of them killed. Until Palestine is a functioning, democratic, country Israelis and Arabs are going to get killed in large numbers.
Getting there is going to be very, very hard but it is the one and only alternative. As Molly I. has pointed out if killing was the answer it would have worked fifty years ago.
One of the big problems with the various Arab states is that so long as their despots have Israel to distract their populations they don't have to worry about keeping their throwns. America's propping up the degenerate royals in the middle east (again for oil) just helps get more people killed too.
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