I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Here's what I, as a Jew, think if this entire issue. It's boring. It's not even really very relevant.
My Grandma (93, now) grew up in an honest-to-God shetl, in what was, I suppose, Russia. She emigrated to America with her Grandmother after the Cossaks killed her grandfather. I bring this up because she considered, and considers, the Orthodox, with their lack of birth control (and other things) as a "disgrace to the Jews". (Is that anti-Semitic? Fine. ) As far as I can tell, these are the folks who now control Israel.
So I think, in short, that the Jews are their own worst enemy. We can handle the anti-Semites, and the anti-Semite wanna be's. But can we handle our own, who are convinced that it's all right with G*d to eliminate the Palestinians? I don't know, but we're trying.
just don't accuse the irish of having a love for alcohol. That insidious slur has hounded us for years, and people who suggest it are guity of ethnic stereotyping of the worst sort. Anyone who thinks the irish like to drink is guilty of philo-celticism at best if not pure, rabid anti-celticism, and anything they have to say should be ignored.
I should say "some" of us are trying.
OT, but Sharpton just called bush and blair "two men in a phone booth".
I agree completely with Aloysius, and raise my glass to him in toast. Slainte!
Can an Irishman listen to "The Wearin' o' the Green" without drinking? Maybe, but I've yet to meet one. That's probably due to the places I frequent.
"just don't accuse the irish of having a love for alcohol. That insidious slur has hounded us for years, and people who suggest it are guity of ethnic stereotyping of the worst sort. Anyone who thinks the irish like to drink is guilty of philo-celticism at best if not pure, rabid anti-celticism, and anything they have to say should be ignored."
Amen! And while we're at it...
just don't accuse the Sicilian/Italians of having a love for crime. That insidious slur has hounded us for years, and people who suggest it are guity of ethnic stereotyping of the worst sort. Anyone who thinks Sicilian/Italians like to murder and engage in other criminal activities is guilty of philo-italocism at best if not pure, rabid anti-italocism, and anything they have to say should be ignored.
Your ongoing series on identity politics is outstanding, and much needed.
Outstanding post, Atrios. Right on the money. It really shouldn't be that hard to get, but most people really don't.
Taranto thinks Gregg Easterbrook is a liberal? Uh, wow. Whatever we have yet to know about the clouds in Jim's world, we know they're not white.
Jim's shameful post gloating about Rachel Corrie's death sums up why I stoppped reading him ("the way she lived her life was shameful, and she died a shameful death." Okaayyyyy...)
His knee-jerk pro-Israel stance ("ani-jerk"?) is somehow miraculously exempt from his views on "identity politics". OK, Jim. Explain to me why Brooklynites fresh off the plane have the right to live and vote in the West Bank and Pals who've been there for centuries don't, but make sure it has nothing to do with identity politcs. Thanks for clearing that up. Glad to have you on the team, Jim.
BTW, those of us living in Massachusetts know this is not a republican vs. democrat issue. Some of the most virulent homophobes in Massachusetts have been democrats. Former governor and former dem. candidate for president Dukakis is one obvious example. So is former state senate president Bulger. And current state house speaker Fineran.
Homophobes come in all political stripes. Including democrats. And including northern democrats.
It warms my heart to see you write longer essays in your own words on Eschaton, Atrios.
i disagree, a little. i do think a great deal of damage has been done by well-intentioned but ultimately racist liberals. i see a lot of it - mostly by teachers and librarians who work with african-and-asian-americans. it's two sides of the same coin that tend towards the same results. the stereotype of the stupid, criminal, dangerous, poor black. the conservative wants to jail or sterilize them all...the liberal wants to "empower" them and "help" (according to a white construct). the asian kids are seen perfect and gifted, unless they start listening to rap (horrors) and buy lowriders and being not like "us." their identity as the other is handed back to them.
all those movies of the white-teacher-who saves the poor-backwards black classroom? usually by teaching classics, teaching them to quit talking wrong and getting back to (white) basics? unfortunately it seems a lot of the white teachers i know seem to take this to heart.
i think the way you've described the "identity politics" is great though. it's similar to how white adoptive parents seem to completely fail in helping provide coping strategies for their nonwhite children as to how the world will see them - because after all, "we're all the same inside."
i think this is a bigger societal issue that the right doesn't have a big enough mind or brain to reflect on. not to mention, they're crackers.
"Pro-creative," Atrios? Does that mean what I hope it means? Rawr!
As Arabs are also Semites, I object to the term anti-Semitism being used exclusively for the opposition to Judaism. The proper term should be anti-Judaism, or anti-Jewish.
Allies don't let our soldiers die
Did Israel deliberately allow 241 American Marines to die ?
by Joseph Sobran
Yes, says Victor Ostrovsky, a former Israeli secret agent. In a new book, By Way of Deception: A Devastating Insider's Portrait of the Mossad, Mr. Ostrovsky says the Israelis had advance notice of the suicide attack that killed 241 Marines in Beirut in October 1983 but withheld the information from the United States in the hope that the attack would poison American Arab relations.
The Israeli government is desperately trying to block publication of the book, which also says the Israelis are "actively spying, recruiting, organizing and carrying out covert activities mainly in New York and Washington, which they refer to as their playground."
Although it can hardly succeed and will probably backfire, the censorship attempt enjoyed initial success in both the U.S. and Canada. Obliging courts in both countries have ordered that the book be at least temporarily suppressed When it comes to Israel, freedom of speech and of the press is considerably less than total, even in America.
Mr. Ostrovsky says Israeli agents heard he had written the book and tried to bribe and threaten him to dissuade him from going into print. He is now in hiding.
More than 17,000 copies of By Way of Deception are in print, and many reviewers have already received copies. If the book divulges sensitive information, as the Israelis' lawyers say, it's too late to stop other governments from getting it. The only purpose of the censorship is to stop Americans from reading Mr. Ostrovsky's account of how Israel allowed U.S. Marines to be slaughtered
Books are rarely suppressed in America (at least not by direct government intervention), and by the time you read this, By Way of Deception will almost certainly be unshackled. Then the Israelis will have to either discredit the author or argue, as they did in the case of the spy Jonathan Pollard, that the decision to let the Marines be killed was a "rogue" action.
Mr. Ostrovsky's allegations should be shocking. Letting the troops of a benefactor nation be blown up in their own compound is hardly the act of a "reliable ally," as Israel is said to be.
But you have to wonder whether anyone will really be shocked. The act would be consistent with a long pattern of reprehensible Israeli behavior toward the U.S. Some of it has been widely publicized; no doubt the largest part of it has never been discovered.
If anyone ought to be stunned, it's the many pundits who echo Israeli propaganda to the effect that Israel is America's only valuable and trustworthy ally in the Middle East. If they mean what they say, they should be publicly changing their minds, or at least demanding a thorough investigation into Israeli conduct toward this country.
Congress ought to be shocked, too, to the extent that its all-out support for Israel has been sincere rather than venal and
I study this shit, and Atrios is right on about the way whiteness has traditionally managed to escape scrutiny for its "identity politics" by seeming to be the normative "master brand" from which all other identities depart. I would recommend on the issue Sally Robinson's Marked Men, which is full of insights into how conservatives themselves employ the very identity politics they attack by troping white men as victims. She also nails one major tactic in this politics, one that we can see clearly in the emphasis Rush and O'Reilly place on their personal victimization--screaming bias, slander etc etc. By emphasizing the personal, the critic can divert attention away from systematic abuses. This has been a really effective tactic for conservatives.
While the Dr. Livingstone Syndrome Seems to effect some of Liberal persuasion among the Conservatives it seems its the same thing in reverse. From the recent invite of all Black journalists to the hearing on the confirmation of a Conservatively affirmed judge, to Armstrong Williams stating he holds Strom Thurmond as his mentor, to Alan"Throw Away The" Keyes run for president the Cons have shown off their converts like the missionaries did in the 19th century to get another donation. It seems to be saying that if they just quit their heathen ways they can sit next to the white women on Fox News and the 700 Club.
Atrios,
Your post is briliant.
But who will tell Al From?
The DLC, of course, says that minorities are to blame for "divisive" identity politics.
Can an Irishman listen to "The Wearin' o' the Green" without drinking?
TownDrunk.
Yes, me. Don't drink, can't, allergy medication.
shorter atrios: the balkanization of america is all whitey's fault.
Speaking of practitioners of race-baiting and identity politics:
Meet the Freepers!
http://
www.onepeoplesproject.com...eakrepublic.htm
Shorter Easterbrook: Shame on the money-grubbing Jews who grub money like money-grubbing Gentiles because money-grubbing Jews should know better.
Shorter blogosphere: Off with Easterbrook's head!
Shorter Eisner: Off with Easterbrook's head!
Now truly shorter Easterbrook: I'm sorry!
Shorter blogosphere: Off with Eisner's head!
Atrios stated, "But until it goes away we should stop pretending it emanates from minority groups. It doesn't."
You are indeed correct Atrios. It emanates from the Left, thank you.
Plenty of immigrant groups who were lumped together - Poles, Hungarians, Irish, Italians - have largely transcended their original status as downtrodden ethnic groups. But until it goes away we should stop pretending it emanates from minority groups. It doesn't.
(ditto, of course, for sexuality).
The white ethnic groups you mentioned transended their status by intermarriage.
Are you saying that gays are going to intermarry with straights and disappear as an identifiable group?
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