I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Democrats are politicians? The way they've been acting lately, I thought they were enablers.
Let's get the politics out of our politics and while we’re at it let’s get the past out of our history.
A shorter New York Times
">Global Democracy Policy
When we say global democracy policy we’re talking about Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Iran and Pakistan. These countries are as bad as Soviet communism before it was defeated by Ronald Reagan. Mr. Bush should stop invading and occupying and be more like Reagan. The Reagan administration supported democratic opposition movements across Central and Eastern Europe. We don’t remember anything about
">supporting any mujahideen.
Oh, the best part is that now they've shut down the committee until they get an apology.
"The overwhelming majority of the time there is no fundamental difference between the Republican and Democrat."
Who said this?
Speakin' o' politicizin' everything (from Bob Parks's What's New weekly blog):
Armed Services Committee Chair Duncan Hunter (R-CA), has proposed renaming Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory for the late Edward Teller (WN 12 Sep 03), and he’s in a position to make it happen. His proposal is now before the conference committee considering the FY-04 Defense Authorization Bill. Teller always enjoyed strong support in Congress, and the Lab was created for him. After his 1954 testimony in the Oppenheimer hearings, at the height of the McCarthy era, many physicists refused even to speak to him. Laboratory officials have declined to support the name change, ostensibly because it would be disrespectful to the memory of Ernest O. Lawrence, but perhaps also because Teller’s name is so closely associated not only with the H-bomb, but also with the string of colossal failures that marked his later years: Star Wars, Excalibur, and Brilliant Pebbles. Peace groups have gleefully endorsed the name change as "truth in advertising."
Pincus and Priest have an article on page A-18 today:
Yesterday, Frist appeared to close the door entirely on the Democrats' wishes. After discussions with Roberts, the majority leader said that "the committee's review is nearly complete" and "we have jointly determined the committee can and will complete its review this year."
"They can't do that," Rockefeller said, noting that hundreds of pages of requested documents have recently been promised by the State Department and Pentagon and more interviews have been scheduled.
In addition, he noted that the final report from David Kay, who heads the CIA's search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, has not been completed. "What can we say about prewar intelligence without Kay's report?" Rockefeller asked.
These guys are unbelievable. Who do they think they're kidding. They know they're screwed if this is allowed to take its rightful course.
The overwhelming majority of the time there is no fundamental difference between the Republican and Democrat
Some Libertarian?
Whom do they think they're kidding?
If we had a real media, there'd be plenty of stories about the GOP's desperation to avoid any hint of an investigation into their crimes. If we had a real media, they'd see the smoke and start looking for the fire.
If there's any way to get rid of these loyal little lapdogs, I can't see it.
enablers...I love it.
Talk about hitting the nail on the head!
The overwhelming majority of the time there is no fundamental difference between the Republican and Democrat
Ratfuck Ralph, useful idiot of fascists.
What a handy chart!
why isnt this on front pagea?!?!?! i tried to get thru to c-span!!!! THIS IS THE HUGEST STORY.
I mean this is IT.
Ratfuck Ralph, useful idiot of fascists.
Bzzt!! Thanks for playing!
Hey, have you ever heard about the experiment with rats, where you take a bunch of dominated rats, who get depressed at their powerlessness, then you stick one of those rats in a mini-cage, the other powerless rats will then go beat on that mini-caged rat to relieve their anxiety and stress at being dominated by the alpha rats?
Fascinating stuff.
i mean the end of questions/ accountability, 2-party system.
i mean that seems like a FRONT PAGE story, right?
Thanks American's Memory. Prepare yourself fer lotsa grumblin'. A lot o' these here cyberhippies actually believe there is a difference between Repugs and Dims.
We do have a real media, its just that it is poorly funded and nearly invisible. See http://www.alternet.org/ . Pick up your local alt-weekly and you'll find some of the best reporting on nearly every issue, including local ones that the dailies won't touch, or are too invested in the monied interests behind local issues.
Although, the company that owns the Village Voice is buying them up by the bushel-full and toning them down. We might lose them too before too long. So, support them while they're still here.
Stop supporting garbage like the big corporate-owned dailies. They are as complicit in the crimes they report on as the actual criminals. Support what local media you still have that tells the truth while you still have it.
It seems like a no-win situation for the republicans, doesn't it?
if the republicans wanna continue to sink ships by leaking, the democrats should stop taking the high ground and march on out with the facts.
But to quote a republican,
"Facts are stupid things"
Who said that?
Everybody notice how Dean's flag comment is still front page news in the SCLM?
And Bush was allowed to get away with what? Throughout his entire campaign?
Questions about drug abuse? Deserting the military? Etc., Etc.?
Schwarzengroper did what? And was'nt questioned about it? Ever? He had no background at all, and was hiding from the reporters? Or were the reporters just hiding from him?
And Dean makes one comment, and it is as if the bastards all want to sink him. The only thing they'll report on associated with Howard Dean is the flag comment, and this, thanks to our lovely SCLM, the only thing people will know about Dean, that he said something stupid once.
On the topic of politicizing almost everything, but never anything actually *worth* policitizing.
I'd rather waste my vote on Ratfuck Ralph than on Billy Bob Dean.
I missed some of this story.
So my question is: why were republicans Dumpster Diving in a Democratic Senator's trash? How long has that been going on?
Thanks American's Memory. Prepare yourself fer lotsa grumblin'.
Oh, I've seen it. They still flip their lids.
I wonder when they'll actually look at what Gore and the DNC did wrong in 2000, instead of looking for a scapegoat. Certainly reason and facts aren't going to guide them in the right direction.
Just compare the passion people are showing for Dean as opposed to the non-passion people had for Gore. Not saying that Dean will win or not, but so many lunkheads spend all their energy bashing Ralph Nader and anything related to him, that they don't realize that they should be out energizing people instead of bashing the 2% that left their party because they were so frustrated by it.
These guys are unbelievable. Who do they think they're kidding. They know they're screwed if this is allowed to take its rightful course.
Once again, the Republicans know they are safe on this one.
They know their base doesn't CARE that they lied to the US about the intelligence leading up to the war.
Don't you get it? The GOP base simply doesn't give a shit.
Corner one of them. Get him or her to admit that, if, God forbid, Bush and Co did lie about the intelligence they based their war on, that they will abandon support for Bush.
Good freaking luck. The GOP doesn't care if Bush lied. Hell, they were in on the lie. They didn't get lied to, they were the liars.
Bush knows his people don't care. As long as he proclaims he is "tough" and "resolute" and "strong", he could brand a swastika on his forehead and no one in his base would bat an eyelash.
They KNOW he's doing what they want, so they don't care about him lying.
Reagan lied his fucking head off for years, and they're ready to cannonize him.
Forget trying to paint Bush as a liar, because they don't care about that. Your very act of doing it makes him stronger.
Paint him as an incompetent fool, and you have a better chance of defeating him.
those 2% were bashing us.
stop with the 'dish it out but can't take it' shit.
And speaking of politicizing everything, the GOP has planned a "marathon debate" over judges:
GOP Plans 'Marathon' On Judges
Debate to Spotlight Blocked Nominees
By Mike Allen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, November 8, 2003; Page A01
A brewing rebellion by conservative activists has prompted Senate Republican leaders to plan to devote at least 30 straight hours of debate next week to their bid to confirm a handful of judicial nominees being blocked by Democrats. The Republicans are bringing in food and cots for the "Justice for Judges Marathon," scheduled for Wednesday night through Friday morning.
Apparently, in the classic GOP style, the only point they will be "debating" is their demand to seize the courts through nutcase appointees, and strangely enough, they all already agree with each other completely; my understanding of "debate" is that you are actually supposed to have more than one viewpoint present, but, given that the opposition party in congress has basically been declared invalid and illegitimate by the GOP (the WH won't even take questions from DNC types any more) I suppose the GOP could'nt find anyone willing to "debate" against them.
Must be hard be such a vast majority in this country.
The Repubs don't care that W is a boob as long as Karl "The Man With The Plan" Rove has his hand up W's ass and keeps workin' W's mouth.
Forget trying to paint Bush as a liar, because they don't care about that. Your very act of doing it makes him stronger.
Paint him as an incompetent fool, and you have a better chance of defeating him.
you might be on to something there.
As a liar, he can say those around him lied to him. But a fool stands alone.
If you all think that Paul Wellstone could have just as easily belonged to the Republican Party, I think you'd better go think again.
With the ever-increasing slant towards incumbents in the Congress, long-time members become more and more part of a subculture. But the Democratic Congressional Leadership is not the same as the Democratic Party, and still less the same as Democrats.
So let's be clear on whom we're talking about.
I want a Democrat in the White House. I want Democrats controlling Congress. Joe Biden lost me when he plagiarized Tony Blair, and Gephardt never had me. But they're Democrats.
And if the Greens hinder the Democrats controlling Congess and the White House, they are my enemies. Plain and simple.
They know their base doesn't CARE that they lied to the US about the intelligence leading up to the war.
Don't you get it? The GOP base simply doesn't give a shit.
Monkey's called this one -- the GOP base is totally cool with these guys, right down to the loudmouth at the bar or the abused mom. They will not act in their own interests, if it means that someone else will get some too.
those 2% were bashing us.
And rightfully so.
stop with the 'dish it out but can't take it' shit.
Huh? I can take it. I'm just wondering when a large number of people will face the facts of what the Democrats did wrong( and are doing wrong), and change the strategy -- which is something in your control -- and stop fretting about choices other people are making (like supporting Bush, Nader, etc) -- which is something you cannot control.
I mean, why did Nader draw so much energy in 2000 and not in 1996? And how did Perot draw so much support in 1992 (dwarfing Nader's support in 2000)?
These are good, valid questions to ask. If you're interested in improving your own party, you'd ask these tough questions, instead of simply wailing on the Nader pinata, since you all feel you can't fight back against Bush.
I pray one day this will sink in with you all.
Well, as long as enough dems and independents become outraged and energized enough at this republican crap to vote (providing someone gets them outraged and energized), Bush will be out next November. If the republican voters want to back the worst president ever, fine. Bush didn't win the popular vote last time, and he's made enough enemies that he will get even fewer votes this time.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
Last night's "All Things Considered" illuminated this "they-don't-care-about-them-lying" phenomenon. They interviewed folks in Eastern PA about their attitudes about Bush, the war, etc.... Depressing as shit, for the most part, for the complete absence of critical thinking skills in almost everybody interviewed. (The South-bashers around here should listen to this.) Anyway, further proof that all modern Republicanism is faith-based. The heartbreaking segment was at the end: the wife of a soldier in Iraq, an intelligent-sounding person, her voice breaking with every word, saying, "I HAVE to BELIEVE that this is the right thing. I can't let myself believe that this war is not honorable." ...This is a bad paraphrase, but you get the idea. Check it out if you can find it at npr.org.
If you all think that Paul Wellstone could have just as easily belonged to the Republican Party, I think you'd better go think again.
Faulty logic -- trying to disprove a generalization with a specific instance. The fact that Democrats as a whole have lost their way is not disproved by the existence of one or a few Democrats who have not.
So, educate me. Who stood with Wellstone opposing the authorization of force in Iraq? How about the Patriot Act? How many Dems lined up on that one when it counted?
And if the Greens hinder the Democrats controlling Congess and the White House, they are my enemies.
Huh. Sounds familiar...
"And if the Democrats hinder the Republicans controlling Congress and the White House, they are my enemies."
-- standard Freeper sentiment
You have become what you say you despise. Congratulations.
Monkey sez: "Don't you get it? The GOP base simply doesn't give a shit."
I'm starting to think the only way to get through their thick skulls is to let the Repubs have their way. Mr. and Mrs. Republican will have a nice little wake-up call when the Christian reconstructionalists start rounding up and executing their children for the crime of not being properly Baptist, when they get cancer from all the pollutants in their water, when they can't afford any sort of medical care aside from aspirin, when they get old enough to retire and can't because the GOP looted their retirement funds and cancelled their Social Security.
Final proof that atheists are right: a benevolent, omnipotent god would've already smote the hell out of Bush, his administration, his stooges in Congress, and his worshippers.
I agree with many positions that the Greens put forth. Has Ralph joined the Green Party yet? Ralph never had a position on the environment, he certainly didn't agree with the Greens with respect to "Gonadal Politics". In fact he doesn't have any positions at all except he is anti-Corvair and anti-Democrat.
The Green's phone-book search for a national candidate drafted a person who is wholly unqualified to hold public office at the national level, and did so in order to score campaign funding. I'd vote for my yellow dawg before I'd vote for a Green.
For years the Republicans have tried to politicize every aspect of our lives - every single news event (Johnny Walker! Liberal!) - and now suddenly they're outraged about the politicization of... politics.
A classic example of what I suggested we call Partisanification in the Wingnut debating dictionary.
I'm starting to think the only way to get through their thick skulls is to let the Repubs have their way. Mr. and Mrs. Republican will have a nice little wake-up call when the Christian reconstructionalists start rounding up and executing their children for the crime of not being properly Baptist, when they get cancer from all the pollutants in their water, when they can't afford any sort of medical care aside from aspirin, when they get old enough to retire and can't because the GOP looted their retirement funds and cancelled their Social Security.
in a way i agree with you, but we'd all be long dead before they reached that point.
"I'm shocked! Shocked to find there is Politicking going on!"
"Your winings Mr. Roberts>
The Repugs aren't, if truth be told, outraged at all about the ethics of the politization of investigations about the honesty of the Bush Administration with regard to Iraq.
What this so-called moral outrage is really about is an attempt to shut down any public questioning of Bush's lies so that he can slide into home come 2004 unscathed.
OT. Some highlights of last night's Bush award to Kennedy:
As he introduced Mr. Kennedy to an audience of 2,500 people at Rudder Auditorium, the elder Bush joked about criticisms the senator had hurled his way, including a few made on the eve of the first Persian Gulf War in early 1991. As he spoke, Mr. Kennedy stood up from his chair and pretended he was leaving the stage – the crowd loved it.
However, Mr. Bush grew somber as he briefly referred to Mr. Kennedy's Sept. 18 accusation that his son, the incumbent president, was "bribing" other nations to commit troops and other resources to help rebuild war-torn Iraq.
"As a father, let me say attacks upset me a great deal more today than they did when I was myself in the crosshairs," he said. "It hurts more when it's your kid."
But the former president said "tough criticism goes with the territory."
He recalled that he had "lobbed more than my fair share of attacks at the senator. ... When you want to fire up a Republican crowd, give them a little red meat, you know. Nothing works quite like jumping on Ted Kennedy."
[...]
Mr. Kennedy appeared to charm the crowd with several self-deprecating jokes about how unpopular he is in Texas.
On a more serious note, he said Americans should tolerate dissenting views about how to conduct the war on terror – both from fellow citizens and other nations.
"Vigorous public debate is the only path to progress and the surest route to reconciling the differences that divide us," Mr. Kennedy said.
The war on terror is still in its infancy, he said.
"A new world order is still being born. We did not have all the answers at the start of the Cold War, either. ... Those successful policies emerged from a state of profound confusion."
From the Dallas Morning News.
Jesus Fucking Christ, Memory! Get your own damned blog. Quit hijacking every thread with your Gore-suck/Nader-rocks bullshit.
People find out about a 'leaked' memo from Rumsfeld that wasn't even leaked. The Republicans are outraged. SOmeone digs through the trash and finds a copy of a Democratic memo. Repubs are outraged. Whether they're the leaked or the leakers, they'll use it to somehow paint the Democrats as the ultimate evil. It's really just sad.
PAY ATTENTION TO ME
Jesus Fucking Christ, Memory! Get your own damned blog. Quit hijacking every thread with your Gore-suck/Nader-rocks bullshit.
Hilarious. You still think that's the point.
It was never the point.
The point is what the Democrats are doing. Period. No external reference needed.
But, please, hiss on.
"America's Mammary"
Cloned - the Sweet Smell of Success.
Conversation with a friend of mine who is a veteran (Korea) and retired:
Me: "Doesn't it bother you that Bush has cut $14 billion from Veterans benefits, slashed VA medical care, and threatens your social security?"
Him: "Yeah, but Bush is a REPUBLICAN!"
Which is pretty much the mindset out there. As Monkey pointed out, the people--and the GOP base in particular--doesn't care what Bush does or says. Turn my tapwater into toxic waste? Fine. Make the air so foul my kid dies of asthma at age 5? Fine. Lie us into a war, then completely screw the pooch on the occupation? Great! Hand out contracts to your campaign contributors? No problem. AS LONG AS HE'S REPUBLICAN!
Indeed, at another point in our conversation, my friend brought up the Lincoln Bedroom stuff about Clinton. He was well and truly outraged that Clinton should do such a thing. "But Bush has handed over billions of taxpayer dollars to HIS campaign contributors. Don't you think that's a bit more serious in the way of corruption?"
"Oh, that's nothing," he said. "Those people aren't sleeping in the White House!"
A) We're not taking Democrats as a category, nor are we trying to define what 'Democrat' means. We're talking about an actual group of people.
B) Millions of marchers, and millions of voters, stood with Paul Wellstone. Those are the Democrats I'm talking about.
c) We're not supposed to be focused on the goal? We're supposed to say, "Oh, go right ahead--take votes away from the Democrats. make it harder to get the Republicans out. You're good guys, so we don't mind your working against us." Is that what you think our position should be?
I don't despise the freepers for advocating their cause. I admire their tenacity.
I despise their cause.
If you don't agree with me that means you don't understand the point. If you understood you would HAVE to agree. LOL--
"We're no" was me. Panther hates haloscan.
Out of lurking.
To try to get things settled:
1) "The Memo": Can someone, ANYONE tell me WTF the big issue is? Listening to Sean Hannity and his echo chamber of congressional cohorts (I have an iron stomach, I can take it), you'd think this is a blueprint for Watergate II. To me, it's nothing more than a coache's pep talk to a particular "team." This is such a non-issue, I'm sick of hearing it. And who leaked this to Hannity, anyway?!
I get the idea now -- this is the republicans revenge for PlameGate, isn't it?
2) (Green Party) != (Ralph Nader).
3) America's Memory has a point (he/she is just really inconsiderate): MOST democrats, not all (I miss Wellstone), are spineless wimps and twits that are at the same trough as the rest of the pigs on Capitol Hill. It doesn't help when people are brainwashed into believing the party memes (and that goes for everybody -- including Greens). Frankly, I think the whole damn system of American politics is bullsh!t -- and I'm a REAL independent (not an O'Reilly independent). When the majority of the people are brainwashed by various means of transmission, you get what they vote for (or not if Diebold has their way).
It sucks being under the thumb of the Illuminati...
America's Memory has a big point and I'm glad someone on this site has finally stood up and said it. Green bashing is this site's halatosis.
AFAIAC, I wouldn't vote for Nader in a million years, regardless of the 2000 election or is he a Green or not or whatever. He'd be a joke of a president. Congress would eat him alive.
News flash: the President is not a King. He has to negotiate with Congress, he doesn't necessarily just get elected and then get to dictate to the legislative branch because he won an election. Jimmy Carter pissed off the Democratic Congress, look what they did to him.
If Greens and independents really want to change the system (and I heartily agree it needs changing), they need to be able to elect their people to Congress and the state and local level as well.
But that's hard, long work. Easier to get that self-righteous buzz goin' on by shooting the moon and then blaming everyone else when the jackboots come goose-stepping down the street.
Self-righteous? Blaming everyone else? Who's side are we talking about.
Huh?
it astounds me that people would be OK with another four years of the horridly incompitant and criminal Bush, rather than support someone who isn't their 'perfect' candidate.
Ben Franklin would shake his head. Thou art not a patriot.
it astounds me that people would be OK with another four years of the horridly incompitant and criminal Bush, rather than support someone who isn't their 'perfect' candidate.
LOL Does such a person exist?
It has always seemed strange to me when politicans accuse each other of politicizing anything. There was a time when "politics stopped at the water's edge" *but* that was when there was a bipartisan foreign policy, not a "with us or against us" policy, much like the "bipartisanship" that translates into "agree with my extreme positions or be branded as partisan."
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