I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
link, please :-D
yes, it is.
Gotta be. These folks have lots of experience with trash.
It could be SOP to alert the GOP dumpster team when one of Ashcroft's bugging devices picks up a hint that there might be something useful in the trash.
Clearly what has happened is that one of the Repubican think tanks conducted a focus group and polls showing that the public would be swayed against the Democrats if there were an accusation that they were politicizing the investigations. So they looked for something they could spin as politicization.
I mean, the Republicans have been politicizing things since 9/11, and they needed a cover. And their usual cover is to accuse the Democrats of doing what they're doing. That's how it works. This memo does NOT politicize the investigation asnd does not say what the Republicans are saying it says. But they need this as a narrtive right now, so they invented it. They make up that this memo does that. And, believe me, you'll hear this story repeated and repeated from now until the election, saying that the Demorats have politicized 9/11 and the investigation.
The amount of research they do into this kind of "shaping opinion" is beyond belief. It's all they do, all the time. Meanwhile progressives and moderates are not spending a dime on this kind of activity.
Wouldn't you love to hear Mr Integrity himself, Sean Hannity, explain how his "source", who he won't name, got a hold of this memo?
Of course, when its the Democrats demanding a few answers, its "politicizing" [don't you people hve anything better to do than question out commander-in-chief?], but when its the GOP running their kangaroo court investigations, its a legitimate inquiry [he might have had sex; we have to know more].
Senate Democrats should learn from this. It doesn't matter how fair or principled they are, they're going to catch it for everything. They might as well let everything rip. They should identify every opportunity to embarass Republicans, every opportunity for turning a situation into partisan gain, and stick it to the Republicans and their media sluts at every turn. Since there isn't anything to be gained by being nice they're going to lose anyway. A lot of Democrats would be energized if they showed some backbone for a change.
While they're at it they could be a bit more careful at covering their tracks. Apparently the trash isn't secure. And don't cooperate with the press. It used to drive me up the wall the way Clinton staffers used to talk freely to a press corp that was obviously trying to bring him down. Starve them.
It's time to be as cunning as snakes, the doves have all died.
These guys have the historic grasp of infants and the self-reflection of stones. Politicizing?
How about Rove's memo crowing that the repubs could ride the war on terror to electoral victory?
How about the destruction of Max Cleeland? Or the sliming of Wellstone's memorial?
For crissakes, the mother of all politiczings, how about scheduling their next frikkin convention in New York on the anniversary of 9/11?
Ah shit, I barfed on my keyboard......
The Democrats should have disowned the memo in question, declaring it bogus. Anything that Hannity is involved with is automatically suspect. This pussy patriot, who never heard a shot fired in anger, should be discredited before his paranoid delusions effect any more of the gullible public.
Arizona Sen. Kyl is doing his investigation of Bush's misuse of intelligence in the committee room trash can...What did he expect to find there?
A reason to stop the investigation?
And Sen. Pat Roberts was beginning to cave to all that "overwhelming" evidence that Bush and Cheney did, in fact, stovepipe intelligence without vetting it first. It was reported in the news too that Dick Cheney was meeting with Sen. Roberts??? To encourage him to NOT work with Democrats (maybe derail them even)?
So what I want to know is was Sen. Frist meeting with Dick Cheney too now? Roberts caved so Frist steps in and he isn't even ON this damn committee.
On NPR last night, reporters were interviewing family members of the militrary in Iraq.
One woman, whose husband is serving over in Iraq said: "I have to believe in Bush and what we're doing in over there because how could they lie to us like that. They wouldn't lie to us on something like this so they must know something, even though the president doesn't tell us why we're over there.
And she says: "It would just break my heart if they were lying to us about the reasons for this war and she's on the verge of crying".
Sometimes it requires a lot of courage to face the truth but it's better to face the truth before one's loved is permanently disable or comes home in a body bag.
In one of my college classes, a humanities course, we had a visiting judge, an appealant judge for the state and he said: There are a lot evil people in this world, and I'm there is and I'm sure he's put a lot of them in jail.
He's right! Bush and Cheney's are both very criminal people and Frist has no right to stop this investigation with all the people who are becoming disabled or dying in this war.
What we really need here is a Democrat with the scathing wit once found in some British politicians. Someone with a fast mind who is able to spit out a one-line response that at once frames the issue properly and utterly shames the opposition.
Daschle's response to all this should have been, "Republicans seem to equate bringing the facts to light with politicizing, and given their history of politicizing everything in sight, I can understand we they would feel that way."
Yes, just like it is SOP for GOP staffers to stage protests at vote-counting facilities in Florida.
I am glad that the Senate Democrats on a non-partisan committee are going to use classified intelligence data to try to smear the President during an election year while troops are being shot at in Iraq. We all know that releasing a Democratic memo by the Republicans is far worse than that. Rockefeller is right to be upset that the Democrats plan has been foiled.
While they're at it they could be a bit more careful at covering their tracks. Apparently the trash isn't secure.
Shouldn't they have already figured this out? I mean, if it was really just lying there in the trashcan? What else do they just leave lying around? Maybe they could borrow a shredder from Fawn Hall?
The Memo:
Following is the text of a memo written by a Democrat on the staff of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence that suggests how to make the greatest gain off of intelligence data leading to the war against Iraq. The memo was obtained by Fox News.
Transcript of a memo written by a Democrat on the Senate Intelligence Committee staff suggesting how to make the greatest gain off of intelligence data leading to the war against Iraq.
We have carefully reviewed our options under the rules and believe we have identified the best approach. Our plan is as follows:
1) Pull the majority along as far as we can on issues that may lead to major new disclosures regarding improper or questionable conduct by administration officials. We are having some success in that regard. For example, in addition to the president's State of the Union speech, the chairman has agreed to look at the activities of the Office of the Secretary of Defense as well as Secretary Bolton's office at the State Department. The fact that the chairman supports our investigations into these offices and co-signs our requests for information is helpful and potentially crucial. We don't know what we will find but our prospects for getting the access we seek is far greater when we have the backing of the majority. (Note: we can verbally mention some of the intriguing leads we are pursuing.)
2) Assiduously prepare Democratic "additional views" to attach to any interim or final reports the committee may release. Committee rules provide this opportunity and we intend to take full advantage of it. In that regard, we have already compiled all the public statements on Iraq made by senior administration officials. We will identify the most exaggerated claims and contrast them with the intelligence estimates that have since been declassified. Our additional views will also, among other things, castigate the majority for seeking to limit the scope of the inquiry. The Democrats will then be in a strong position to reopen the question of establishing an independent commission (i.e. the Corzine amendment).
3) Prepare to launch an independent investigation when it becomes clear we have exhausted the opportunity to usefully collaborate with the majority. We can pull the trigger on an independent investigation at any time-- but we can only do so once. The best time to do so will probably be next year either:
A) After we have already released our additional views on an interim report -- thereby providing as many as three opportunities to make our case to the public: 1) additional views on the interim report; 2) announcement of our independent investigation; and 3) additional views on the final investigation; or
B) Once we identify solid leads the majority does not want to pursue. We could attract more coverage and have greater credibility in that context than one in which we simply launch an independent investigation based on principled but vague notions regarding
I am glad that the Senate Democrats on a non-partisan committee are going to use classified intelligence data to try to smear the President during an election year while troops are being shot at in Iraq.
Okay, quick, let's get out our Wingnut debating dictionary. Is there a good entry for "the Democrats are [insert insidious action here] while troops are being shot in Iraq?"
For instance "The Democrats are refusing to allow One-Party rule while troops are being shot in Iraq." (Well, some Democrats anyway.)
The bastards.
B) Once we identify solid leads the majority does not want to pursue. We could attract more coverage and have greater credibility in that context than one in which we simply launch an independent investigation based on principled but vague notions regarding the "use" of intelligence.
In the meantime, even without a specifically authorized independent investigation, we continue to act independently when we encounter foot-dragging on the part of the majority. For example, the FBI Niger investigation was done solely at the request of the vice chairman; we have independently submitted written questions to DoD; and we are preparing further independent requests for information.
Summary
Intelligence issues are clearly secondary to the public's concern regarding the insurgency in Iraq. Yet, we have an important role to play in the revealing the misleading -- if not flagrantly dishonest methods and motives -- of the senior administration officials who made the case for a unilateral, preemptive war. The approach outline above seems to offer the best prospect for exposing the administration's dubious motives and methods.
The whole thurst of this memo is for an independent investigation, so if the Republicans really think the Dem's are acting "political" then why not just go straight to an independent investigation
I guess the few Democrats left in power need to start shredding everything, including the toilet paper. You never can be sure who's monitoring your waste stream.
Derelict - I'm in complete agreement, though I think a cadre of liberal media pundits (when IS that liberal radio network getting launched?) would be even more effective, because they can get away with saying things that a politician can't. Out of the Democrats in office right now, I think Barney Frank is about the sharpest wit - they should put him out there more often. Beyond that, we're being out-competed in the "think tank" area, where right-wing thinktanks exist to write the talking points for policies that hurt the majority of citizens. Here is where the blogosphere might be able to make a real difference.
Remember Newt's "dictionary" for conservative candidates? We need to develop a cache of talking points, verified by the public actions and words of conservatives, to impeach their arguments. For example, we've had statements from a number of sources on the right about how the Democratic party needs to be destroyed. The response from any of us on the center or left, politician, citizen, or media should always be, "we've seen what happens when one party that assumes it has all the answers has all of the power. Most patriotic Americans would not think of Hitler's Germany, Stalin's Russia, or Saddam Hussein's Iraq as a better model than what we've got."
We could answer almost everything they use with a short and devastating quip that cuts right to the heart of the issue. We need to be total bastards and hit them hard on everything, every time they say it.
This is one of the most frustrating things for me to watch - the inept responses made by elected Democrats and people who are the default "spokesmen for the left" (entertainers, etc). There ARE good responses for all of this stuff. We could do a public service for candidates and others by compiling them.
What the hell is wrong with that memo? It looks like nothing more than a standard strategy brief. We're going to keep pushing the Republicans to investigate, we're going to make sure the media hears both sides of the results of that investigation, and when they stonewall we're going to ask for an independent investigation. How is that controversial?
sdf - even if that were the case, it still sounds better than "the Republicans are cutting off medical care for millions of veterans, breaking promises to those who bravely defended our country, and while our troops are being shot at in Iraq they've attempted to cut their combat pay and support to their families back here at home by $250 per month."
And by the way, Anon, if it was a "non-partisan" committee it wouldn't have more Republican members than Democrats. You'd have to stretch to even call it "bi-partisan", given the evidence that Republicans are shoehorning their spin into the report through their majority bullying tactics. There's nothing "bi-partisan" about rifling through someone's trash can.
Well it should be named after Arizona Sen. John Kyl-he appears to be the official trash can digger:
Senator Pot in need of a kettle to call black ...
It is a disgusting possibility that members of the Senate would actually try to politicize intelligence, especially at a time of war, even apparently reaching conclusions before investigations have been performed ...
Senator John Kyl (R-AZ) Wednesday on the Senate floor.-- Josh Marshall
I think that's Jon Kyl not John Kyl- I could be wrong though.
How about Kyllizing-The habit of pointing finger and screaming that someone is political because they non-political independent investigation.
...let's get out our Wingnut debating dictionary. Is there a good entry for "the Democrats are [insert insidious action here] while troops are being shot in Iraq?"
How about "Standard Issue MBF Script?"
oops that should be:
How about Kyllizing-The habit of fingerpointing and screaming that someone is political because they want a non-political independent investigation.
It was "bi-partisan" politics that got us into this mess. The Democrats rolling over for the Republicans unbridled greed, hypocrisy, disregard for the environment and human life. Enough of bi-partisanship. Time for partisan politics.
This story and another one makes me wonder if the Democrats are under surveillance of some sort. I usually don't buy into that sort of stuff, but first we have this memo (nothing wrong with it...Gods forbid the Dems should, you know, fight back and criticize the president!) but there was also a story at TPM about a GOP staffer being fired after meeting with Wesley Clark. Which made me wonder, how the heck did they know he met with Wesley Clark? According to TPM, someone from the GOP was watching the meeting from afar. The hell? If we had a press, they'd be looking into this disturbing pattern.
As I argued here on Thursday, it's not just that the Republicans have apparently stolen and published a democratic internal memo draft, but that they then have the audacity to say that the publication of the memo is damaging to national security (and is the Dems' fault!).
I keep asking myself, when o when are the Democrats going to come out firing? I can't believe how docile and weak these guys are. They're so worried about looking partisan or politicizing Iraq, that they come off looking worse. The Republican's for christ' sake are digging thru trash! Stand up and say "Hell ya we wrote this memo, the GOP and the Whitehouse have lied, spun and changed facts to force their agenda. The result is Americans are dying for it and we're entitled to know the truth. And BTW tell Sean Hannity he should go back to selling used cars like he's good at"
They'd get alot more traction with the American people if it looked like they were standing up for their convictions, instead of watching polls and listening to focus groups.
P.S. Anytime the Press wants to show up and start doing their job would be great.
I keep asking myself, when o when are the Democrats going to come out firing? I can't believe how docile and weak these guys are. They're so worried about looking partisan or politicizing Iraq, that they come off looking worse. The Republican's for christ' sake are digging thru trash! Stand up and say "Hell ya we wrote this memo, the GOP and the Whitehouse have lied, spun and changed facts to force their agenda. The result is Americans are dying for it and we're entitled to know the truth. And BTW tell Sean Hannity he should go back to selling used cars like he's good at"
They'd get alot more traction with the American people if it looked like they were standing up for their convictions, instead of watching polls and listening to focus groups.
P.S. Anytime the Press wants to show up and start doing their job would be great.
EPT, I agree fully with what you say. I have just written as much on another topic down the page.
Actually, I think the thing that scares the thugs more than anything else is if the Dems start to fight fire with fire. That is why they are always telling the Dems that they should not be nasty to the Chimp.
The Republicans always tell the Dems what they are really scared of. Like in the 2000 election they kept telling Gore not to campaign with Clinton. And like a fool, he took their advice.
Trouble is The Dems always take their advice, because they are too scared to fight back. The reason the Right hates Clinton, is not because of his sex scandals, Or his policies. No, the reason the hate him is that he stood up to them, and beat them. Not once, but twice!
I really love the fact that the Republicans are insisting that the writer of this memo is found, but they are pretty silent on finding who outed Valerie Plame. Writing an internal memo is not a crime, while releasing the name of a CIA operative is a crime. Where's the outrage? This is all par for the course though - Clinton getting blown is the most horrible thing ever, but W getting a bunch of soldiers killed is no big deal. This administration and their cronies are truly disgusting.
The Mighty Wurlitzer is already way ahead of us. On C-SPAN's "Washington Journal" this morning, one of the call-in topics was "What was the most significant news story of the past week?" It didn't take long for a caller (you could immediately tell he was a wing-nut because he kept talking about the "Democrat" Party) to get all out-raged about the leaked Senate memo as the most serious breach of intelligence the world has ever seen. This in a week in which two helicopters were shot down in Iraq with twenty-one or more soldiers killed; the news surfaced that Saddam tried to contact the Bush gang to permit any kind of inspections they wanted in order to avoid the war, but they ignored the feeler; Congress caved and gave Bush a blank check to funnel money to Halliburton and Bechtel in looting Iraq; the Pentagon's Lynch story was revealed as bogus; and the Second Circuit Court of Appeals upheld Ashcroft's right to hold anyone he wants for as long as he wants just by calling the person a "material witness." (And I've probably forgotten some other important stuff.)
So what are we talking about? That memo.
You've got to give the Wurlitzer credit. It manipulates the American public more efficiently than Stalin ever did the Russians.
Daschle's response to all this should have been, "Republicans seem to equate bringing the facts to light with politicizing, and given their history of politicizing everything in sight, I can understand we they would feel that way."
but instead all he'll say is "please don't hit me sir!"
The reason the Right hates Clinton, is not because of his sex scandals, Or his policies. No, the reason the hate him is that he stood up to them, and beat them. Not once, but twice!
Beat them at the ballot box, yes. Stood up to them? Eh. In many ways, Clinton was the arch-typical cave-in-and-appease-them Democrat whom people have been bashing in this very thread. One of the major reasons that Clinton's enemies hated him was that he was brilliant at stealing their policies from them and making them his own.
You've got to give the Wurlitzer credit. It manipulates the American public more efficiently than Stalin ever did the Russians.
Yes, this thread testifies to that.
Alas!
So wonderful to be principled, even as the boat sinks.
Well, this may be one of those situations in which there's no such thing as bad PR. "What's that you say? The Democrats are politicizing *what*?" Makes the lies "news" again.
1. Was the memo written on a LAN? Dems should only be using laptops. It's possible that a LAN administrator is filching files, isn't it? Or maybe pugs are using Carnivore? The stakes are that high.
2. Freepers have started a petition for a thorough investigation of memogate, seeking 100,000 signatures. Who knew they would assist in demanding the truth?
http://www.petitiononline.com/de...1/
petition.html
I have just been wondering: what other Dem memos has the RNC found? It may sound a bit paranoid, but (a) what other "trashed" memos, plans, etc have been found, and/or (b) if this came from unauthorized computer access as Sen. Rockefeller said, what else has been accessed?
all you have to do is compare Nixon to bush and figure out that even Nixon had some standards.
Matt, I think Dems should consider themselves under total surveillance. They should assume that everything sensitive is in the hands of Rove. They should bring in some vetted security experts to secure communications. And they should start hiring some opposition work of their own.
One of the best investigative minds in Washington proposed oppo after election 2000, and was turned down cold.
What we really need here is a Democrat with the scathing wit once found in some British politicians. Someone with a fast mind who is able to spit out a one-line response that at once frames the issue properly and utterly shames the opposition.
That'd be Barney Frank, I think. On the same topic (sort of), I'd give anything to see the equivalent of the Brit "Question Time" here in the States, with Dubya in the dock. Now that's comedy!
Is it SOP for Republican staffers to dig through the trash of Democratic Senators and Reps?
Yep-- When they can spare the time from scouring Hillary's underwear drawer.
On a more serious note, I've read the memo over a few times, and can't see the shame in it. Pat Roberts made it clear that the Republican point of view (yes, they do have one) is that the CIA should be the primary target of the inquiry, despite evidence to the contrary, and the memo appears to be nothing more than a series of suggestions for getting the inquiry back on track, and ultimately, bringing the administration to book for lying to the American public about its motives for invading Iraq. Yes, it'll make the administration look bad. Tough. That's truth for ya; this simply serves the public interest.
Republicans are extremely vulnerable on this score, and this little "Captain Renault Moment" of Senator Kyl ought to be taken for what it is: a pre-emptive strike against any and all requests for administration docs relevant to such an inquiry.
So, talking about how to defeat GOP stonewalling is now an excuse for more GOP stonewalling?
Wow. Sometimes I wish our constituents were so easy to manipulate!
Two words for the Democrats: Paper Shredder.
Characters Remaining:
Commenting by HaloScan
