I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
Which is why Parliamentry democracy is a much better idea but won't happen here.
Sorry, he's already screwed the pooch and jumped the shark - "quitting while ahead" is definitely not an option.
Can someone break it down for me.... where does the term "whistle ass" come from? I've heard it many times in reference to your Dear Leader, but I'm missing the joke.
The entire mission of Bush II is the holding and consolidation of power-- even more important than the land grabs.
Who in their right mind think the people who bought junior this job are gonna give that up without a fight?
Whistle ass here, Thom.
http://www.madison.com/captimes/...ories/
55234.php
It's not that they should quit while they're ahead, but that they get out of town before too much shit piles up against them—lying, cheating, and self-serving machinations being essential parts of the job of Top Pol.
What's going to do with all that money he's raising--buy back the Rangers? He's more than ready to cash in on all the favors he's been doing, but who's going to run in his stead? That gang of pit vipers he's fronting for?
Besides, Cheney won't let him.
Sorry he just might.
The game isn't fun anymore. He is reviled around the world and didn't get to parade with the queen.
He continually seems more and more intoxicated or medicated.
Four years is a hell of a long time to manage some one. Eight may be damn near impossible.
Add to that that he is pissing off his real conservative supporters, and the rumors that there was a study claiming that a second Bush term would lead to mass rioting across the US, there may be some sound reason for him to drop out. Medical problem.
But what should really horrify people is not the rumors of a draft starting in 2005 but the medical draft. Yep, due to a shortage of medical personell there are plans to have every doctor and nurse, under 45, sign up for a medical draft.
Just how many more people would that piss off? Losing your family doctor to the military for a couple of years.
A link and a couple of quotes might be usefull.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/
new...RTICLE_ID=33754
Medical workers face military draft
Pentagon plan calls up medics, nurses, doctors in national emergencies
The "health care personnel delivery system" is being readied by the Department of Defense, according to a report published by the Newhouse News Service, to cope with military casualties from a large-scale biological or chemical attack. The plan was authorized by Congress in 1987 to deal with large-scale casualties that outstripped the active-duty military's ability to handle them.
The news service also reported the Pentagon is considering other "special skills" drafts, to include military linguists, computer experts or engineers, that could arise from other immediate needs.
"We're going to elevate that kind of draft to be a priority," Lewis Brodsky, acting director of the Selective Service System, told Newhouse News Service.
I guess all those white collar workers who have their jobs farmed to other countries will now be drafted for their skills.
I have suspected for some time that W. may have relapsed back into alcoholism. Are there any credible sources who have "gone there"?
At times, his behavior certainly suggests the actions of a "dry drunk."
Dream speech from Bush:
"I shall not seek, and I will not accept, the nomination of my party for another term as your president."
Not gonna happen, but it's an image that makes me happy.
Has the right wing been notified that Reagan had an unsuccessful second term?
Dream on, Grover and the boys aren't near finished. There's still a lot of the Treasury left to loot.
Dream on, Grover and the boys aren't near finished. There's still a lot of the Treasury left to loot.
Mr. Twister
http://
www.democraticunderground...topic_id=793076
Others feel that PNAC is the driving agenda and indeed it could be. I would like to raise the thought that is more layered in it's approach with the end state being "global union" of all countries.
Why Global Union?
1) If you are of the understanding that corporations and the global elite basically run the world...own our politicians ... own our media etc.... we aren't that far away.
2) Global Union allows "those" more control. Call it Global Patriot Act etc.... one global army...with global spies...global currency...global energy resources ...etc.
3) Natural resources (oil) have seen their peak in production and there are plenty of guesstimates for depletion (20-30 years). Either you have less people or allocate resources among countries or "chosen few".
The g
http://
www.democraticunderground...topic_id=793076
Not a pretty picture. But, unfortunately, the above imaginings are gradually becoming reality. We are witnessing the piecemeal economic destruction of the wealthiest, most dynamic economic powerhouse in human history. The American economy is dying, but not from natural causes. It is being strangled to death in a coordinated pincer attack. America’s ability to survive, produce and prosper is being systematically destroyed by socialistic taxes and regulations that make U.S. production of virtually everything increasingly uneconomical. Simultaneously, the same legislators and government officials who are impeding American producers are opening the floodgates to cheap foreign goods that are not burdened with the same debilitating taxes, regulations and mandates.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tn...1-2003/
jobs.htm
Why wait till the second term if fellow conservative pundits think Bush is as acting a bit corrupt (has anyone read Brooks post too which is sort of The Promised Land undone)
Brooks writes:
The good news for Democrats is that the K Street establishment will slowly win this struggle. The majority will ossify. It will lose touch with its principles and eventually crumble under the weight of its own spoils. The bad news for Democrats is that, as Republicans can tell you, the ossification process is maddeningly slow. After the New Deal, it took 60 years.
BUT with these types of post IS IT REALLY TAKING ALL THAT LONG????
Maybe it's only a second term away BUT wait... Bush still has another year to go and how bad can things get in one more year?
It will lose touch with its principles (yeah, not to mentions it's constituents too) and eventually crumble under the weight of its own spoils.
Don't look now Brooks but we're pretty much already there pal.
LBJ knew when it was time to go & he was up there with any of the "Masters".
And, yes, it looks like we have a "dry drunk" if not wet one.
Bush has a history of being unable to admit mistakes, which extends to mistakes made by the people around him, since it would reflect badly on him. I can't see him refusing to run again.
Unless - and this is a big "if"- his wife and his parents sat him down and told him that they wanted him out of office for his own good.
He looks to me like he is drinking again. And I've got a pretty good eye for that.
He looks to me like he is drinking again.
For him to be drinking "again" he would have to have stopped at some point.
I'm not convinced he was being truthful when he said he wasn't drinking anymore.
I used to think that maybe there were powers who wanted to dump Dubya for someone a bit slicker, like Frist. No I know there is no way. Dubya's vacancy is absolute political perfection. We deserve him and he serves the moneied elite better than any king or dictator could.
Drunk or sober, what difference does it make? Any we can never expect that whatever he's saying, whenever, is truthful.
Seraphiel - Re: whether Bush ever really quit drinking - you may be right, I have no idea. But lately he definitely looks like an alcoholic.
and, mike in pr - it doesn't make any difference; he cannot be believed about anything at any time.
Bush's career has been based on getting cherry positions and opportunities based on his connections, screwing them up, and then having somebody bail him out so he can rise to the next level of screwup.
Who will save him now?
He is like his brother Niell, waiting for the knock on the hotel room door.
Shut up. Shut up. You liberals are so envious of the brilliance, popularity and success of our CiC that you slander him at every turn. Listen up scumheads, we are AT WAR. What you do weakens our resolve and is treason. You will pay.
MBF - nice one! I have diet coke coming out of my nose, it was so funny.
Thanks, you made my day!
Poet Lariat - Absolutely. Bush's entire destiny is failure. Everything he has ever touched has turned to shit.
The man is a complete loser and a jackass. It still confounds me that he has gotten as far as he has. But then, I guess money and a complete lack of scruples together with powerful, cynical,allies can do that.
This administration has been hands down the most cynical in history. That doesn't bode well for the country.
To me the most significant thing is that Hoagland even wrote such a paragraph. It shows that even members of the choir know Bush is going down the tubes.
It also shows some twiging of the criminal behavior of the Busheviki and that somehow the Democrats will regroup and hold them accountable.
All Hail Great Leader!
Any who oppose him are on Satan's side.
Drop your pants to we can check for the tail of the evil one.
We already make you take your shoes off at the airport so we can check for cloven hooves!
ALL HAIL!
What the heck does this mean? Democrats have given up on 2004? This makes as much sense as Bush serving Thanksgiving dinner at 6 am to the troops in Iraq.
Bush will seek another term. And they'll steal the election again if that's what it takes. Bush and the wing nuts will never go away as they drive America -- white knuckles, over the cliff. It used to be painful watching America raped by them for 5 cents an acre. But for my own emotional well-being, I've turned off my emotions as I watch the meltdown. I'm a lefty Spock.
Nemo - You are one of many who seem convinced that the country will let them steal another election. I don't think so. There is still enough left of what America is supposed to be about that I just think that it will be all but impossible for them to pull that shit again.
If nothing else, I think it would bring people into the streets in a big way if the '04 election even appeared to be rigged. I know I'd be out there.
Of course Bush is drinking. What do you think Pretzel-Gate was about then? He was drunk off his ass and almost choked on a pretzel. Sad. We were so very close to the end of this national nightmare.
It's coming ... Hoagland doesn't go out on a limb on his own ... with the convention in New York, look for the dem candidate, who's been running against Bush all along, to find himself up against Rudy Giuliani, nominated in his own city, where his career was rehabilitated by the leadership role he snatched from Dubya after the 9-11 debacle.
Meanwhile, the neocons at the master control panel will still be in place. Hope the Dems are flexible enough to deal with this contingency.
"If nothing else, I think it would bring people into the streets in a big way if the '04 election even appeared to be rigged. I know I'd be out there."
Tena
Well, get ready Tena because there are trillions for corporate America riding on the outcome of the 04 election so they can continue to rape the world for .5 an acre. You better believe they intend to steal it if necessary.
I'll be out there, too.
I detect Liberal Media Bias in these comments. Who is telling all the good news? Who will stand up for our great country and not trash it on the world stage as hate-America liberals do daily? We need more STRENGTH, HOPE, JOY.
Tena,
I know a lot of people who've never voted before who're planning to vote this time around, come hell or highwater, and every damn one of 'em is voting the straight ABBA ticket: Anybody But Bush Again.
Michael Moore had some great ideas in his new book about helping those folks out, the formerly nonchalant and apathetic citizen. A co-worker and I have been discussing concerts at the local music clubs for both voter regisration and post-election night parties, plus organizing carpools for those without vehicles (which is a lot in a town like Athens).
Therein lies the key, people: getting folks to the polls. It does no good to just rant and rave, you gotta be an active participant. I've long thought it funny that we, a country that's seeing barely half its voting-age population even bothering to vote, is "bringing democracy" to anyone.
Maybe we're gonna give the Iraqis social studies books, I dunno...
During the old Soviet days, their main news source was Pravda which had only "STRENGTH, HOPE, JOY" about their leaders and the way things were going. The Soviet citizens longed for the truth. But with the viewers of FOX News and other right-wing media in this country, the wing nuts long for the lies. Go figure.
Tell me lies, tell me sweet little lies.....
the only way that george can win, is to promise punch and pie for everybody and we all know he can't.
"Nemo - You are one of many who seem convinced that the country will let them steal another election. I don't think so. There is still enough left of what America is supposed to be about that I just think that it will be all but impossible for them to pull that shit again.
If nothing else, I think it would bring people into the streets in a big way if the '04 election even appeared to be rigged. I know I'd be out there.
Tena"
looks like Hoagland also believes this. looks like he picked up on the parallels to Bush and Shevernadze and realizes we won't let them steal another election.
Well, I for one am tired of all the negativity. I want inspiring stories about my country fighting for freedom, and not all this hate America liberal attack nonsense.
pansypoo - the odd thing is that I think Bush and the Republicans think that they have already offered punch and pie to everybody via the Medicare prescription drug benefit (haha). I know they didn't convince at least 15,000 voters, who resigned from AARP over it.
Guiliani might play well on the coast, but I can almost guarantee you that he is not going to be a good candidate for much of the country. He is too "New Yawk" for the mountain west, for example.
Well, I for one am tired of all the negativity. I want inspiring stories about my country fighting for freedom, and not all this hate America liberal attack nonsense.
MBF
I don't know if you are serious or not, but if you are, there's an Army recruiter in your neighborhood who I'm sure would just luuuv to talk to you.....
Oh, it's just the stories you want. In that case how about The Civil War by Ken Burns compleat.
I want to agree with what dave said way back near the beginning of this thread - as far as quitting while ahead goes, that's impossible. Bush is most definitely not "ahead," at this point. Quitting in disgrace would be more like it.
I didn't read the entire article because I haven't signed up with the WaPo, so Hoagland may have said something that leads you, 56k, to think he is seeing something I'm not seeing. What I took from the part that Atrios posted is that Hoagland is saying if Bush does get 4 more years, they are going to be hell for him, because the jig's up. It will be 4 years of having the chickens come home to roost.
Yes, he should quit while he is a head.
Cue Salome!
What is the use of changing horses in mid stream?
Well, we are supposed to be on the trail, not crossing the stream, and there is a waterfall approaching.
He should quit before someone shoots him in the head.
God forbid.
R. Soles,
"...the rumors that there was a study claiming that a second Bush term would lead to mass rioting across the US,..."
Any idea who did this study (and when)?
DaveH - thanks for asking that, 'cause it has stuck in my head since I read that comment.
bush will not quit, get that thru your heads. there are too many things that he must control for him to quit. like the plame matter for one. he also must bequeath the presidency to a republican or he might be in deep shit! which is one reason why we might see a suspension of the constition in the event of an al queda attack-almost certain to happen! even tommy franks is worried about this!
and the plame affair has bush's fingerprints all over it. that one is treason. bush cannot quit! if he does there is no place that he can run to. period
R. Soles,
"...the rumors that there was a study claiming that a second Bush term would lead to mass rioting across the US,..."
Any idea who did this study (and when)?
DaveH.
DOD
http://csf.colorado.edu/forums/p...I/
msg00941.html
Under that guise, the Department of Defense predicted that the result would
be an enormous increase in civil disobedience - even more so than we are
seeing now. The DoD initially said that it's because of the riots we've had
at the IMF and World Bank meetings and so on and that they need stronger
measures to control radicals, but what they were really looking at, however,
was a longer-term.
The DoD report stated that if Bush is "elected" in a second term and if
Bushonian economics (which they noted creates a long term deleterious effect
on our economy is continued), then more and more of the American citizens
are going to see the value of their 401(K)s and IRAs wiped out.
The report also noted the growing insecurity of the domestic
dan hoppe - another major attack is the one thing I worry about more than anything else. Especially since reading that interview with Franks.
DaveH.
The DOD report story seems to have originated at the Al Martin site.
I'm on the fence about Martin.
But, this section (the story is dated 30 September 2002) seems to have anticipated the underfunded pension story by over a year.
"The report also noted the growing insecurity of the domestic pension systems
because of the Bush administration's refusal to fund legislation to
guarantee pensions and its refusal to pressure corporations that give large
mounts of money to the Republican Party to shore up their own pension
systems."
So who knows?
Tena writes: "I think Bush and the Republicans think that they have already offered punch and pie to everybody via the Medicare prescription drug benefit." And I believe they will reap as they sow. They will get back the pie (in their faces, custard a favorite) and we deliver the punch (on voting cards for their opponents in the next election. When even the sycophantic Republican sheet, the Chicago Tribune editorializes that the Medicare Reform Bill is the worst and most economically damaging measure ever enacted. And when the conservative-overloaded McLaughlin Group in recent weeks has been John McLaughlin, Eleonor Clift, Pat Buchanan and the fourth guest panel member blasting the Bush Administration, leaving only Tony Blankley to try to defend Bush; you have to figure Bush isn't going to have a cake walk next year. Even the wake I attended last Wednesday was loaded with people volunteering opinions that the Bush Administration needs to be treated the way Charles Atlas treated tele
telephone books, I'm putting my money on the Democrat Presidential candidate to be named later.
(now why were those last words cut off the earlier post?)
Arthur - 1000 character limit per comment.
I'm with you. Since the All Conservative All Republican Dallas Morning News started slamming the administration - subtlely, but nevertheless - I've known Bush is in trouble. The DMN even called for the Democrats in Congress to filibuster the energy bill. That's a first.
Plus, they didn't give him any free pass on the Thanksgiving trip, but carefully laid out the viewpoints of those Iraqis who were angered by it. The worm turned some time back.
I think you're all missing the point. One of the things that we should be hammering on for the next 11 months is that "it's time for new leadership" and "give someone else a chance" and above all, "all the presidents since WW II elected to a second term have had major scandals that hurt the country."
R. Soles,
It's quite credible, when you think about it. Military conscription is based on the assumption that we are property of the State, because "dulce et decorum," and all that. Once that principle is accepted, why is conscripting the civilian labor force any more of a stretch? We came very close to having a conscript civilian workforce during WWII.
For that matter, a number of executive orders concerning martial law provide for conscription of civilian labor in the event of a "national emergency." Given that such a state of emergency is pretty likely after a WMD attack, civilian conscription is almost a matter of course.
Being able to shoot factory workers for going on strike, or even quitting without permission, would sure change your labor relations picture, wouldn't it? Similar measures by the German Reich were a central benefit of fascism, from the viewpoint of the big capitalists: a way to keep labor terrorized and docile.
But it couldn't happen HER
Jim from NC - I'll go with the "it's time for new leadership." I don't think the other two are winners. Sorry, but I don't see anyone campaigning on the slogan "all presidents since WWII elected to a second term have had major scandals..."
Ooh - queen crab said something in the top comment thread that made me realize that Bush would have a perfect out if he decided not to run. It's so Bush:
"God has told me that he has other plans for me now, and he does not want me to run again for the presidency."
If only there was a god like that.
No problem, Tena. I tend to get verbose at times. But one cannot distill what is wrong with the Bush Administration to fit on a bumper sticker. Take the economy. We are told by the Bushies that its surging, all because a lot of people spend early tax refunds on their kids' school supplies last summer. Yet MSNBC reported on November 4 that "the number of job cuts announced by U.S. employers surged 125 percent in October, calling into question the strength in the job market." The number of layoffs was set at over 170,000, the highest since October 2002. Yet TV News has been trumpeting the surging economy, even using fear tactics to get us to do our Christmas shopping early, for fear the merchandise will be gone before December 24. And yet all I hear in my neighborhood are people out of jobs or underemployed at wages that don't quite cover bills like electric, gas, food, and property taxes (which rise as income taxes drop). If the Democrats hammer away at Jobs next year, it will be Du
Dubya looking for a job in January 2004.
(just a few words too many again)
Arthur - oh, there is absolutely no way to put it all into neat little soundbites. It's just that the idea of a candidate saying: "All 2d term presidents since WWII have had scandals," sounds a little, well, odd. But I would sure like to hear more talking heads saying it, because it might stick in some of the voters' minds.
I heard a portion of an international economic forecast/report the other day on NPR, and it was disgustingly rosy. Said the U.S. economic recovery would spread and that Europe would see a surge in the economy there and it was all due to how great things were getting here. Tell that to the people who are out of work. I don't understand where this "recovery" is supposed to be taking place - is it invisible?
"another major attack is the one thing I worry about more than anything else..."
Tena
Don't you realize we're fighting in Iraq so we don't have to fight here? Dubya says we have all of the terrorists pinned down over there.
Dave from R I - maybe they will bring in ringers?
seriously off topic, but it needs to be addressed. give it it's own post, atrios!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...-
2003Nov29.html
Bush claims to be building a "grass-roots" campaign and have 6 MILLION people signed up through their website, georgewbush.com, as noted here:
"Bush's campaign Web site already has signed up 6 million supporters, 10 times the number that Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean has"
now, i went to bush's website, and it's impossible to even just list your support. all you can do is "donate" or "sign up to be a team leader".
there's no way his site has even 6 million hits.
you know what to do, people. phone, write, and blast the wapo to get these hacks fired.
If nothing else, I think it would bring people into the streets in a big way if the '04 election even appeared to be rigged. I know I'd be out there.
Tena | Email | 11.29.03 - 2:23 pm |
-- Yes, but doesn't what happened on "the streets" of Miami scare the shit out of you? I'd like to copy all of the lyrics to Buffalo Springfield's "For What It's Worth" here, but that'd exceed the damnable K-character limit.
"Paranoia strikes deep /Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away..."
PS: I'm surprised that Atrios hasn't focused much on the doings of Über-Commissioner Timoney. In a nutshell, for those of us steeped in the Roman General paradigm of Top Cop in the Rizzo era, Timoney at first seemed like a thoughtful, down-to-earth, relatively enlightened professional. Then the conventions came to town and his vicious reactionary mentality persona burst forth... if he an
... if he and his ilk become Homeland Security Commissars, we all could be squashed like ants.
Bush won't step down, the business plan is far from over. There are still parts of the 20th century that are still law. I'd guess he's interested in getting the world back to 1850. The press won't allow a scandal, it will just simply refuse to report it. Have they looked into Cheney's filthy closet? Have they insisted on getting to the bottom of the Sept 11th attacks?
Brilliance? The little schmuck's been riding in a chauffered Dadilac his whole life. The challenge goes out again, name one job he's ever done in his life. Real jobs only, not those organized bilkings that he was the name partner for.
President? He's a spoiled little rich boy figure head, useful only as an unthreatening face on a criminal junta.
PS: I'm surprised that Atrios hasn't focused much on the doings of Über-Commissioner Timoney. In a nutshell, for those of us steeped in the Roman General paradigm of Top Cop in the Rizzo era, Timoney at first seemed like a thoughtful, down-to-earth, relatively enlightened professional. Then the conventions came to town and his vicious reactionary mentality persona burst forth...if he and his ilk become Homeland Security Commissars, we all could be squashed like ants.
Reminds me of the April 7th Oakland dock protests where cops shot "semi-lethal" weapons at unarmed 110 Lbs. 19 year old woman.
The comment my friend said to me:
"Look man, the cops use rubber bullets on white folks".
The meaning of the Atrios selection was that there aren't any thinking, intelligent people who understand what's happening as willing to lie for Bush like the media establishment might have for Reagan or so on. You won't hear those cowards denounce him, but you would normally hear them kissing his ass, and that's getting more restricted to CNN/Faux.
Good point about Timoney, but grow stones with this: the reason they're so mean to a few peaceful protesters is, they'll never have the resources to be like that for a real riot. You can't control an adult elephant, so you intimidate the hell out of a baby elephant, and when it's grown it doesn't know its power. Watch the seniors as they do what they did in 1988 all over again, 15, 000 burning their AARP cards. Fuck hippies of the 60s, remember the radicals of the 20s and 30s. This is our country, not the country club of the Mayflower Descendants.
The Enemy is proudly broadcasting his intentions, charging his spray-bottles and polishing his clubs. What are we doing?
It is precisely because of Timoney and Miami that we must be as active as possible until Rove is sent packing.
As a side note, I just wanted to say how nice that was to read a whole slew of great thought-provoking posts without the distraction of a time-wasting "troll."
You can't control an adult elephant, so you intimidate the hell out of a baby elephant, and when it's grown it doesn't know its power.
Right. They better worry about the pissed off elephant who has had it with their shit.
The problem with * and Co. "quitting while they're ahead" is that they're in it for the long haul. Even Clinton didn't really stop the bleeding; he just staunched it a little for a few years. The PNAC crew is basically following the same ideological agenda the reactionary movement decided on in the late '70s, before taking the 1980 election. I mean, the signs are all there. PNAC wanted to take out Hussein six years ago. With these people, better late than never. They don't go away, they just go underground and regroup.
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