I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
first in...
What were some of the signs of the apocalypse again?
It was the fault of Saddam Hussein.
But when he criticizes Bush's inability to come up with either Osama bin Laden or Saddam Hussein, Dean fails to mention that they have never been to Crawford, Texas.
But when Dean speaks, he never mentions that he is always and necessarily wrong.
Nedra Pickler, Karl Rove's best girl.
Dean also neglects to mention that Enron's mismanagement was not the result of Speke's discovery of the source of the Nile.
But when the Democrats point out the obvious, they never mention that there is a tendentious reason why they should not.
Hey, this is fun! I bet whoring like this also pays good too! Let's see...
But when the media says that terrorism still exists in the world, they never point out that the anti-war protests were organized by Stalinists.
Sure glad he didn't explain it, because I don't think I would have understood.
Does anyone else wonder if Nedra Pickler and Rita Skeeter have ever been seen in the same room together?
Methinks someone has a direct and very personal (Bush) relationship to Enron confused wtih an indirect (Dean) relationship.
No, but does he mention that Bush was elected with the help of money from Lay gained by having been funneled through the giant laundering machine that was Enron?
Well, Kurtz will never take this bitch on. Is Somerby working up some stuff on her yet?
It's tough at the top," said Democratic strategist Donna Brazile, who ran Gore's campaign in 2000. "He better get his teflon suit on."
Well Dean gets those teflon suit from the people behind him - and they won't flinch or even blink (and the walk though fire too) and that of course is why Dean is unstoppable.
Those people (thousand of them) are bloody damn well pissed off and that is always serious stuff. Al From can call it visceral hate or whatever he wants, but that mood sure ain't going anywere.
Just let me know when Dean starts using Kenny's personal jet for his campaign.
When historians remark that Hitler was evil they never mention that, as a child, he slept with Van Gogh's ear under his pillow.
Ok, let me try one out:
When liberals question Bush's grasp of the English language, they never mention that his illiteracy is not the result of his "No Child Left Behind" initiative.
You like?
I though Atrios wasn't going to get into this campaign stuff.
Not that it's really avoidable-at this point in time.
I do thing it's wise for the Dems to make nice with Dean cause it will hurt the party if they don't
And not that I think that matters much to Bill or Hillary.
It's so much fun to write an indignant letter to the editor:
"Nedra Pickler writes "But when he criticizes Bush's links to Lay, Dean never mentions that Enron's mismanagement was not the result of the president's tax-cut package." Does Nedra not realize that, in the quoted passage earlier, Dean was using "Kenny Boy Lay" as an example of the type of extremely wealthy individual that has benefited from the Bush tax cuts, and not as an intimation that the tax cuts had anything to do with the earlier mismanagement of Enron?
Doesn't it seem to the Post that that timeline should be immediately obvious to its reporters? To put it bluntly, what should have obvious to this reporter is the following: OF COURSE Dean didn't mean that Bush's tax cuts were entertwined with Enron's criminal behavior, because the latter entirely preceded the former.
More to the point: how did that sentence ever get past an editor?"
Poor grammar aside (as I reread it), that was too fun!
OT but unbelievable:
David Brooke's latest:
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/1...ion/
13BROO.html
Bush is honest, so honest that Al Gore should come give him dishonesty lessons.
Up is sideways.
Egad! Let me see if diagramming that mess makes it make any sense:
But when [name] [criticise+pr. 3p sing] [name+poss.] links to [name], he [mention pr.+neg.+3p. sing.] that [name+poss.] mismanagement [be pa.+neg.+3p sing.] the result of the [name+poss.] [policy].
Nope. Still looks like a Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc fallacy to me.
preznit's boss karl give me turkee
But when Dean slams Bush's bogus WMD case for war he never mentions the Clinton blowjob.
(Bookmarking the Nedra Pickler Google and Excite searches ... )
Let me see....
When Dean criticizes Bush's policy on the environment, he never mentions that the extinction of the dinosaurs was not a result of the president's roll back of the clean air act.
Makes about as much sense. My cat should go poop in Nedra's brain pan, it would raise her IQ at least 50 points.
Kid Charlemagne? yes I liked very much!
But when Nedra Pickler criticizes Dean, she never mentions that she's a skank 'ho being pimped by the RNC.
teach nedra grammar:
npickler@ap.org
But when Nedra Pickler criticizes Dean, she never mentions that she's a skank 'ho being pimped by the RNC.
most excellent.
Nedra doesn't need grammer (as bad as that sucks) as much as she needs a basic primer in logical thought. Seriously. Apparently the lack of critical thought on the right is even more dire than I'd previously thought.
A farmer took his son to the cabbage patch one evening. He handed his son a big stick and said "Smack a cabbage as hard as you can."
The son swung the stick and smacked the cabbage that stood out above the rest.
The farmer said, "So, you see son, the biggest cabbage in the patch is the one that is sure to get hit."
Old farmer story.
But when Dean criticizes Bush's links to Halliburton, he never mentions that those bloated, graft-filled war contracts were not the result of the Supreme Court's decision to avoid an Equal Protection violation by stopping a partial vote recount and just naming the winner.
Oh wait, that one's true.
Can I get a do-over?
$100 sez Pickle is a FOX employee in 2004.
Write foxnewsonline@foxnews.com and ask why such a partisan is not on the payroll.
Act serious.
isn't that plagerism?
and what is the pint of being 1st if you don't say anything?
thanks on Brooks, another edit. i won't waste my time on, as if i would read him anyways. of course i got hoodwinked into starting cal thomass. death of 1st amendment? well, he must be talking about the Bush fedayenen.
No, no..
But when he criticizes Cheney's links to Halliburton, Dean never mentions that their overcharging the government was not the result of the president's no-bid contracts.
It's true, yes it is. Besides, those guys are risking their lives by selling gasoline to Iraqi's at 79 cents a gallon. The contracts are going to reflect that.
What i wrote to Nedra Coulter:
Ann Coul... er ... Nedra,
I recently read "Surging Front-Runner Dean Under Attack ". Your statement about Dean, Bush, and Enron is beyond the pale. Dean was saying that Bush spent a huge sum of money giving tax cuts to rich people like Ken Lay. You understand what the word "like" means in that sentence, right? I guess they skipped similes in whatever correspondence school spit you out.
Then you say that Dean is inconsistent because he sponsored legislation in Vermont that gave tax breaks to Enron - among hundreds of other businesses. What you are not saying is that the amount of money these companies was getting from Vermont was a far cry from the amount of money that Bush was giving away with his tax cuts. More than that, Bush's tax cuts have lead us to levels of debt heretofore unseen in the history of the world. Dean's policies ended up balancing Vermont's budget. Can you see the slight difference in the two circumstances?
Dean is not a communist or an ultraliberal. He understand that there needs to be a balance between the interests of the people and the interests of the corporations. His policies are often similar to many Republican policies, but he does not take them to Bush-like irresponsible extremes. Is considering about the impact of your decisions a sign of weakness in Nedra-land?
What is it with you people? As much as I want to, I refuse to believe you are stupid, Nedra. But are you really so craven that you are willing to ignore the real failings of the Bush administration in order to paint Dean as an inconsistent, angry liberal/ communist/ conservative/ whatever? I guess I know the answer to that.
It is nice to see more people following in the footsteps of Ann Coulter. I really hope you reconsider actually being a journalist instead of a propagandist, but I think you've already chosen your path. Good luck with the Republican rimming. Hope you stocked up on the lip balm.
Scott Fanetti
When Nedra Pickler "writes" and article, she never remembers to add that she is an RNC whore.
Ooops, I guess that one it true as well.
Enron's mismanagement was not the result of the president's tax-cut package.
Well, duh.
The "mismanagement" (what we in the real world call "thievery" and "fraud") was a direct result of stupendous greed.
The same taint that drives the Bush regime toward its fascist goals.
What do Kenny Boy and Georgie and Dickie have in common? They just can't get enough of other peoples' money.
But when he criticizes Bush's links to Lay, Dean never mentions that the president's tax-cut package was not the result of Enron's mismanagement.
Dark thought: perhaps it was!
ABC has decided to withdraw three off-air producers from the campaigns of Kucinich, Braun and Sharpton.
According to FAIR:
ABC's decision does seem to mirror the opinions of Koppel, who seemed frustrated that these candidates were included in the debate at all. According to the New York Times (12/7/03), Koppel "said he would have preferred a slugfest among the six leading candidates." Koppel was quoted: "You can't have a debate among nine people.... There is no such thing. It's called a food fight."
I wonder if Kucinich did piss him off afterall!
a
Ted Koppel is a pissyqueen.
I know. Immature, but I can't help it.
Ok, I didn't give a shit about anything of a political nature before 9/11, which changed everything, ya know...
But, what... the... fuck?
Is there an underground or somethin' I can join? Seriously, someone e-mail me.
I'm a fan of this country's founding principles, insofar as I'm actually cognisant of said principles, but where this country is now and where it's soon heading is bullshit. Bullshit!
Bokonon says:
"Nedra, head so far up her ass,
so beautifully pickled, so pretty the lass,
She thought we had all plain forgotten the fact
that it's Bush and his ilk who would lead us to bleev
that Saddam and his henchmen possesed WMD's,
but then bigger a paycheck she's bound to recieve,
should she focus her moment on blaming the Dean."
Well, at least Nedra is showing us what an article by a genuinely biased reporter looks like. And, surprise, surprise, it doesn't look a thing like what I read everyday in the rest of the "liberal" media.
And, of course, needless to say, Nedra doesn't mention the obvious and obverse. Bush's tax cut package is a result of Enron style accounting...
Three predictions*:
1. Another major terrorist attack will occur in the US in the fall.
2. Howard Dean will pick Hillary Clinton for VP.
3. Bush will be visibly drunk at a fund raiser.
* If I am right, I will be psychic, if I am wrong, I won't. Isn't superstition easy or what?
At 12:30 PM 12/12/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>
>Mr. xxxxxxx
>
>I write in response to recent e-mails you have addressed to Nedra Pickler
>of AP's Washington staff.
>
>If you have further comments on Ms. Pickler's work, or the work of any
>other AP journalist, you should address them to the senior editors who are
>accountable for what AP reports, in care of our corporate website at
>www.ap.org, or if you prefer through me.
>
>In either case your comments will reach the appropriate editorial decision
>makers. If you want to reach an even wider audience, of course, you can
>write an open letter to the editor of any news outlet that publishes an AP
>article you find objectionable.
>
>You have a right to express your opinions, but it has to be said that the
>coarse and abusive terms in which you have chosen to address our writer
>reflect poorly on both your opinions and candidly on you personally. If
>they continue in the same vein, they may also furnish grounds for a
>harrassment complaint.
>
>David Tomlin
>Assistant General Counsel
>The Associated Press
Subject: Re: Mail to AP
12/12/2003
02:15 PM
Mr. Tomlin:
Please explain how my two short e-mails were "harassment." If the AP is
going to print stories like those Ms. Pickler writes, full of coarse and
abusive bias, they are inviting angry responses from readers.
Are you alleging that I have committed a crime or a breach of some legal duty I owe the AP or Ms. Pickler? If so, please spell out specifically what I did that constituted this alleged violation of this unnamed law. If not, then I take it that your letter is a threat of instituting some sort of
groundless legal action against me in order to intimidate me and silence
me. If you are foolish enough to proceed with any such action, AP will
incur legal liability and a complaint will be filed against you with the
Bar.
You ought to be ashamed of yourself threatening readers with groundless
legal action for merely expressing their opinions. Is that any way for an
entity that enjoys privileges under the First Amendment to behave? I think
not.
xxxx xxxxx
At 02:27 PM 12/12/2003 -0500, you wrote:
Mr. xxxxx
My letter was quite clear, and your deliberate misconstructions further
undermine your credibility as a critic of anybody else's reporting.
Dave
Mr. Tomlin:
Your letter was quite ambiguous, and intentionally so. Thanks for confirming that.
And furthermore, it is the credibility of the Associated Press that is at issue here, not mine. Read the articles and reams of complaints yourself. And while I admittedly could have expressed myself in a less direct manner, anger and outrage are not irrelevant and sometimes deserve to be given expression.
I certainly hope that the AP will give Ms. Pickler's writing the same critical scrutiny it has given mine. She is a menace to democracy and to a free and independent press, not to mention a tarnish on the otherwise good reputation of the AP. If she had written for UPI, it would have been expected. But the AP? What a disappointment. Are you going Moonie, now, too?
Happy holidays.
xxxx xxxxxx
David Tomlin,
You are pathetic.
We could use some picklers in my local industry.
Sausage, Jalapenos, etc
When Atrios criticizes Cheney's links to Halliburton, he never mentions that Halliburton's war profiteering was not the result of the president's tax-cut package.
Perhaps he shouldn't.
When Howard Dean talks about his favorite meal, he never mentions Lindberg's historic flight.
You tell 'em Anonymous!!! Fuck you Nedra Pickle you stupid craven rim-jobbing whore!!!!
I've read her sentence multiple times and I still don't understand what she was trying to say:
"But when he criticizes Bush's links to Lay, Dean never mentions that Enron's mismanagement was not the result of the president's tax-cut package."
So...when Dean mentions Bush's links to Lay, he doesn't mention that Bush's tax cuts for the rich didn't force Enron into its corrupt behavior? Is that how this sentence is supposed to read?
In other words, The Pickle is defending Bush against an accusation Dean never made - i.e. Bush's tax cuts caused corruption in Enron, or made Enron corrupt, or some such nonsense.
Hmmm. I wonder why The Pickle would do that? You don't think she was trying to distract her readers from the actual connections, financial and otherwise, between Lay and Bush, do you?
PS: Those of you who want to write the AP and call The Pickle names and tell her to fuck off or whatever, should think twice. Acting like that just makes AP editors feel superior in ignoring whatever valid point you might have to make. By all means, complain and complain loudly, but point out what The Pickle has done and continues to do wrong - don't call her names. You just hurt your own cause and look like a Freeper in the process.
"When Bx stopped drinking, he didn't mention that he took up Ambien and Prozac, Ritalin, and Rx barbiturates."
ABC (Disney) goes Krovian, fulfilling think tank trick of asking offensive questions to see if it can cause a scandal, and then in any case loping off coverage of the short end of the ticket; as if who gets coverage is a decision that ABC gets to make under the corporate concept of equality
(the head of the FCC being a pile of steaming shit that came out of Colin Powell, warcriminal liar).
This is similar to Gore's allowing of Nader to be cut out of the 2000 debates, to his serious detriment (and ours). Boycott ABC; the Mouse is a Liar.
"Then you say that Dean is inconsistent because he sponsored legislation in Vermont that gave tax breaks to Enron - among hundreds of other businesses. ...Dean's policies ended up balancing Vermont's budget."
Yeah, and those SPE's in the Caymans helped to buy schoolbooks and repave roads!!! So lay off, fascists!!!
As I've said before, I just wish Pickler would use her unique "reporting style" on Republicans as well as Democrats. She could even be honest and informative at the same time. Here's a sentence that would be nice, but I'd bet my life you'll never see her write:
"But when Bush mentions Iraq and "The War on Terror" in the same sentence, he never mentions that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 or any other actual or planned terrorist attack on the U.S..."
That'll be the day.
Ari Fliesher's wife may have some competition.
Heres a letter I wrote to someone:
Dear XXX:
You are a jerk. And an asshole. And if you don't watch your language, asshole, I'm going to have you disbarred.
Love,
XXX XXX
Tee hee!!!
No, but Dean should mention that Kenny Boy funneled a lot of his tax cut back into Bush's campaign coffers as a payoff for letting him inside trade on Enron stock and loot its pension fund.
Paul
Gotta love ABC (oh the liberal media lol).
Supposedly the decision not to cover the campaigns of those 3 candidates was attributed to the fact that 'these candidates are perceived to have a slim chance of winning the Democratic nomination'.
Why do we need elections people? Let ABC and the other networks make such early calls and decide for us. Sheesh!
a
Night Owl, how exactly did Bush let Ken Lay inside trade on Enron stock? The overwhelming majority of Lay's shares were sold under Clinton's 'watch,' assuming the president is suddenly responsible for administering the SEC.
Night Owl, how exactly did Bush let Ken Lay inside trade on Enron stock?
I don't seem to remember a Kenny Boy perp walk, do you? The truth about his insider dealings and looting of the pension fund was discovered ON BUSH'S WATCH and thoroughly exposed during the Senate hearings.
So what did Ashcroft do after this clear evidence was discovered? Did he prosecute? Did he even investigate further. Nope. Nothing Nada. Zip.
Instead, Bush protected his old pal, and let Kenny Boy walk away with over 100 million dollars of shareholder and employee money. THAT'S HOW.
I assumed Dean's point was that Lay didn't deserve a tax cut. He should use the money he stole from Enron.
Why are you guys so worried about Ken Lay? What are his crimes compared to those of Martah Stewart? She's a much bigger corporate crook! And you don't see the Ashcroft Justice Department going easy on HER, do you?
Further useless unelectable rabbitting. Foo!
DianaMoonGlompers, Harken back to the days when young Bush was an oilman and participated in some of the same maneuvers that Enron used to puff up its stock price just before it collapsed.
Did anyone mention that Lay, et al, contributed heavily to various Bush campaigns and probably got to help write the administration's energy policy?
We're still wondering where the energy policy leaves off and the foreign policy begins.
Night Owl -
It would be hard to prosecute Ken Lay, since it isnt clear that he committed any crime -- declared insider sales are not illegal, even if the price was inappropriately high. I don't pity Enron's 401(k) subscribers one bit, who were bribed with stock-matching programs to reinvest earnings in Enron shares. The bulk of Enron's chicanery must have happened under Clinton's watch -- Enron's share price reached its apex under Clinton, facilitated by energy deregulation brought about by the Democrat-sponsored Energy Policy Act of 1992. Enron contributed almost 700k to the DNC during the 2000 election. Even Paul Krugman had a paid advisory role. I'd say the Enron largesse was equal opportunity -- if anything slanted toward the Dems.
I also shed no tears for Enron shareholders, whose greed and credulousness led them to buy the myth pitched by Skilling and Fastow. Not all investors were so credulous -- many funds were critical of Enron, short the stock, and not shy about it -- Skilling called one such skeptic an 'asshole' on a conference call well before the collapse.
Did he call him an "ass hole" or an "asshole"? Enquiring mind want to know.
It was a dark and stormy night...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/
busine...,609146,00.html
Their finances were famously opaque -- anyone who owned shares, employees included, deserved what they got. The real crooks were lesser known higher ups who cashed out continually through 99 and 2000, in much larger quantities than lay, believe it or not. "Kenny Boy" also slept in the Clinton white house.
From Nedra Pickler's AP article:
Dean, campaigning in Iowa, stuck to his script and accused Bush of aiding corporate interests while ordinary Americans suffer.
"He spent $3 trillion of our money, giving it to his friends like Kenny-boy Lay and the folks that ran Enron in terms of the huge tax cuts that they got," Dean said. He was referring to former Enron chief Ken Lay, a friend and supporter of Bush's.
[snip]
Accusing Dean of "gross hypocrisy," Gephardt told reporters, "while he was attacking President Bush's special treatment of Enron, he's been hiding the fact that he turned Vermont into a tax shelter for that very same corporate criminal."
He criticized Dean for governing "under the Bush model" by providing tax windfalls for big business while slashing programs for seniors and disabled.
[snip]
Dean bristled at the criticism,... Enron's corporate wrongdoing had nothing to do with the Vermont law, he noted. Suggesting otherwise is "like saying a bank is in bad shape because they had an account with Enron," Dean said.
But when he criticizes Bush's links to Lay, Dean never mentions that Enron's mismanagement was not the result of the president's tax-cut package.
Asked to explain the difference between the Bush administration giving tax breaks to Enron and what he did in Vermont, the former governor interrupted and tersely replied, "Excuse me, we did not provide tax breaks for Enron.
Given more context for her offensive passage, it doesn't seem as bad as others here on Eschaton are saying.
Dean is criticizing Bush for tax cuts to all individual Americans that benefit Enron type high rollers. Gephardt is criticizing Dean for similar tax breaks to corporations that specifically include Enron when he (Dean) was Governor of Vt. Dean in response to Gephardt is saying the tax breaks he gave Enron weren't responsible for Enron's bad behavior. Nelda adds that Bush's tax breaks didn't cause Enron's bad behavior either.
Presumably Dean meant to point out Kenneth Lay and Enron's bribes/monetary contributions corrupting the Bush administration resulting in "special treatment" for Lay personally and Lay's corporation Enron from government regulators and an unfair edge in the energy sector. What Dean actually said touched on this, but failed to clearly make this point. In turn, the very valid and potentially damaging issue was deflected by parsing what Dean actually did say.
"By all means, complain and complain loudly, but point out what The Pickle has done and continues to do wrong - don't call her names. You just hurt your own cause and look like a Freeper in the process."
That's right. It's not like the wingers got anywhere with the media using those shocking tactics, now, did they.
Be a nice, polite, compliant and impotent democrat and then they will listen to you for sure, right after they finish laughing at you.
When Dean criticizes Bush's policy on the environment, he never mentions that the extinction of the dinosaurs was not a result of the president's roll back of the clean air act.
four legs good
Hey, it has all the marks of an oil industry hit to me. Remember those commercials of the melting dinosaurs?
Isn't it a comfort to know that one of our largest press services, which most small news organizations rely on for what they put out, is such a tower of intellectual strength?
Ken Lay stole my mom's retirement, and she ain't no greed head. The problem is was not the shareholders, who had their money stolen, but with their mutual funds that were in on it, or did nothing at all.
Why are you guys so worried about Ken Lay? What are his crimes compared to those of Martah Stewart? She's a much bigger corporate crook! And you don't see the Ashcroft Justice Department going easy on HER, do you?
Martha Steward didn't shut down a company and cost 17,000 people their jobs or make people loose tens of thousands on their retirement accounts...who gives a rat's ass that she sold early? Charge her a fine and let her go on with her life. The guys who stole jobs and pensions are sitting at home in their bathrobe chillin'. Anyone who things Martha is worse than Ken Lay is hopelessly loss to the political right. All they can can think is that a white man in a business suit can't possibly do anything wrong.
Wow! Talk about a non-sequiter!
Hey, Sour Pickle, try this one:
"But when he criticizes Bush for prancing around in an aviator's suit in front of a 'Mission Accomplished' banner, Dean never mentions that Bush was a deserter from the Texas Air National Guard."
“Hey, this is fun! I bet whoring like this also pays good too! Let's see...” Thersites “whoring”? (forget the problem with adverbs)
“Karl Rove's best girl” 56k “best girl”?
“Well, Kurtz will never take this bitch on” Scooter “bitch”?
“But when Nedra Pickler criticizes Dean, she never mentions that she's a skank 'ho being pimped by the RNC. Brucds” “skank”? “pimped”?
Does she ever mention that her inability to be coherent is not the result of Bush's failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?
Why does Pickler love Saddam?
People, people... you don't really believe that NEDRA PICKLER is a real person, do you?
Not when it's such an obvious anagram for DEAN PRICKLER.
...among many other scatalogical possibilities, I'm sure...
Not when it's such an obvious anagram for DEAN PRICKLER.
Eeew. It would work for DRAIN PECKER, too, except there's an L left over.
No-el, no-el, no-el, no-el... Merry Christmas, everybody.
I always get a kick when the brownshirts start defending Kenny Boy. Is Unka Karl just stupid, or does he not approve the scripts during the overnight shift?
Sorry, can't let DianaMoonGlompers' lie about Lay sleeping over at the Clinton White House pass unremarked. Never happened. The rest of her commentary is about as well-informed.
It is entirely possible that Ms. Pickler was assigned in some way to pick apart the Dean campaign, now that he is the acknowledged frontrunner. I'm not defending her, this is terrible writing, but perhaps the Tomlin man above has a point when he says to talk to her editors.
You can be devastatingly mean without calling her a cunt. I like a patronizing, English-teacher sort of tone. Nothing pisses people off more than pity.
A.
Forest Street
Thanks for pointing that one out. It was George HW Bush's White House that Kenny boy slept in. Its well documented.
DMGlompers —
As previously pointed out, Ken Lay did not have a sleepover in the Clinton White House. This is Part 1 of a two-part article debunking the claim and tracking its progress through the various elements of the SCLM.
You're equally mistaken about which party benefitted most from Enron's ill-gotten largesse. Here's a summary of Enron's political donations, 1999 through 2002. Republicans clearly got the majority of the money: a bit more than half in the House, 78% in the Senate.
You might enjoy reading this LATimes article. Here's the lede:
"Republican legislative leaders solicited tens of thousands of dollars in campaign donations from Enron Corp. even as the state government was investigating the company and other producers suspected of price gouging and market manipulation during last year's energy crisis, according to internal Enron documents."
Glad we were able to clear that up for you. If you're burdened with any other falsehoods and gross distortions, just let us know.
Diana - Apparently you're so ill-informed that you aren't aware that it has been reported and published (and can be confirmed through FEC filings) that 75% of Enron campaign cash went to Republicans. And others have debunked the "Ken Lay sleepover in the Clinton White House" but I should add that Ken Lay has indeed had a White House sleepover - but it was during the reign of Bush I.
Diana also conveniently neglects to mention that the Bush administration kept the Cayman Islands safe for hiding Lay and others' looted Enron cash - this was within 2 months of Bush loudly proclaiming that he would go after "terrorist financial networks" and force other countries to comply with banking laws that allow those networks to flourish.
the handicapper general.
odd pseud
(cont.)
Bill Clinton had secured agreement with the Caymans to reform banking practices. Such reforms were to have been implemented in July 2001.
Bush came into office and told the Caymans "don't worry about it, you can continue to be a money-laundering paradise." So July 2001 came and went with no reform of Cayman banking law, and then...2 months later, 9/11 and Bush's famous promise that he would "shut down terrorist financial networks." Fast forward to 6 weeks after 9/11, as Enron's financial house of cards is publicly unravelling, along with revelations that hundreds of Enron subsidiaries (most of them shell corporations receiving a lot of Enron cash) are registered in the Cayman islands, and conducting their banking from that base. Fast forward another 3 weeks, and the Bush administration is signing agreements with the Caymans to allow them to continue their lax banking regulation - a mere 2 months after promising to do the opposite.
Diana, you ignorant slut.
Oh, and did I forget to mention, Bush also called on Ken Lay in March 2001 to choose appointees for the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission? And that the guy Ken Lay recommended got the appointment?
Isn't THAT special? Letting the guy choose who will be in charge of regulating his company.
Again, let me repeat: Diana, you ignorant slut.
unpickling
but in explaining the tax cuts and the energy bill debacle the cabalists never pointed out that both were largely written or influenced by Kenny Boy
never pointed out that the havoc wrought by Enron thanks to deregulation can be improved upon by future criminals thanks to this enron-legislation
daniel/nite owl
get away from this dmg girl
not good for either
possible "economist troll" defending corpcrooks
Sigh, do you have a point?
Glad you laid off my colloquial use of an adjective. Otherwise you would have looked like a smartass.
You left out the next paragraph:
Asked to explain the difference between the Bush administration giving tax breaks to Enron and what he did in Vermont, the former governor interrupted and tersely replied, "Excuse me, we did not provide tax breaks for Enron. Don't do the work of the other campaigns for them. "
Of course, the person who was "interrupted" while doing the work of the Bush administration and was taken to task was Pickler herself.
By the way, a real "terse" reply would have been unprintable. 
Oh! I get it. It's funny 'cos it's true!
"Be a nice, polite, compliant and impotent democrat and then they will listen to you for sure, right after they finish laughing at you."
No, just shut your brain off and say fuck a lot and everyone will listen to you.
The point I was trying to make is based on personal experience. I've worked as a staff writer at a daily paper and when people call or write in calling someone - ANYONE - at the paper an asshole, who ever is making the complaint is automatically dismissed. Period.
But if someone is able to offer EVIDENCE (not hard to do in The Pickle's case) of monumental bias, then an editor is much more likely to actually think about that evidence, even if they don't acknowledge it openly. This is why groups like FAIR and others - hardly compliant with the SCLM - stress the need to be POLITE when making complaints.
Why is this so hard for you to figure out? And why do you think that a forceful email or phone call denouncing right-wing bias in a newspaper article is an example of compliant and impotent behavior because it does not include the words "fuck" or "asshole?"
But hey, what do I know? Go ahead and call Pickler a fucking cunt if it makes you feel better. Actually - that's exactly what you're doing - making yourself feel better, while accomplishing nothing.
"Martha Steward didn't shut down a company and cost 17,000 people their jobs or make people loose tens of thousands on their retirement accounts...who gives a rat's ass that she sold early?"
Yes, I know. My post about her was supposed to be sarcastic. The Steward (are you sure it isn't "Stewart?") prosecution was designed to take the heat of Enron and the Bush/Lay connection, and it is working beautifully.
Here's what I sent to both Nedra and Fox News:
Hey Nedra, Hey Fox News.
I know Nedra is supposed to be an objective, non-Fox News Reporter in stories like the one at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...-
2003Dec12.html
But when she writes in the middle of "news" stories transparent and non sequitur sentences like, "But when he criticizes Bush's links to Lay, Dean never mentions that Enron's mismanagement was not the result of the president's tax-cut package," Nedra Pickler never mentions she prefers Bush to Dean.
And for the same reasons!
See - Nedra - everyone knows the Enron mismanagement happened BEFORE Bush's tax cuts. Does it really need to be spelled out? How could something that happens second cause something that happened first? Dean wasn't claiming otherwise, he just assumed his audience knew both that timeline and that fundamental principle of logic (and we did).
And when you write sentences like that one, everyone knows you're riddled with pro-Bush bias. You don't need to put up a disclaimer or anything!
From now on, when I see "Pickler" in the byline, I'll either skip it if I'm looking for some serious newsreporting or, if I'm in the mood for a good laugh, I'll check out the latest partisan zinger you've buried to look like objective reporting.
I'm sure Fox News has some openings for you, Nedra. So I've cc'ed them on this email. I don't know how they could forgo snagging a gem like you!
Here's what I sent to both Nedra and Fox News:
Hey Nedra, Hey Fox News.
I know Nedra is supposed to be an objective, non-Fox News Reporter in stories like the one at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...-
2003Dec12.html
But when she writes in the middle of "news" stories transparent and non sequitur sentences like, "But when he criticizes Bush's links to Lay, Dean never mentions that Enron's mismanagement was not the result of the president's tax-cut package," Nedra Pickler never mentions she prefers Bush to Dean.
And for the same reasons!
See - Nedra - everyone knows the Enron mismanagement happened BEFORE Bush's tax cuts. Does it really need to be spelled out? How could something that happens second cause something that happened first? Dean wasn't claiming otherwise, he just assumed his audience knew both that timeline and that fundamental principle of logic (and we did).
And when you write sentences like that one, everyone knows you're riddled with pro-Bush bias. You don't need to put up a disclaimer or anything!
From now on, when I see "Pickler" in the byline, I'll either skip it if I'm looking for some serious newsreporting or, if I'm in the mood for a good laugh, I'll check out the latest partisan zinger you've buried to look like objective reporting.
I'm sure Fox News has some openings for you, Nedra. So I've cc'ed them on this email. I don't know how they could forgo snagging a gem like you!
Jennifer [and others],
By March 2001, Enron was already in deep trouble with its creditors and its stock had begun to tank. The vast majority of Enron's shenanigans took place under Clinton's administration. If there is a GOP person worthy of attack here it would seem to be Wendy Gramm and not Dubya, who wouldnt know an SPV from an SUV. Also the clueless regulators in california.
FERC appointment or no, Lay's political connections were not enough to save him from bankruptcy, and the fact remains that the bulk of his and other officers' cash was extracted much much earlier. The insider sales are all part of the public record -- I'd draw attention to Lou Pai, for example, who cashed out of 300mm+ through 2000, but no one seems to know the guy's name or care.
You are completely correct about the Lincoln bedroom; my apologies for carelessly repeating an urban myth.
The Cayman thing (and most Bush activity as pres.) is pretty much irrelevant -- the horse had run off long ago -- the damning SPV's (chewbacca, etc.) were incorporated as early as 96.
For anyone interested in rifling through the enron employee database...
go here:
http://www.ferc.gov/industries/e...nfo-
release.asp
It contains all the emails recovered from their database, (thats 1.5 mm+) including attachments and personal email(and deleted items!) Also depositions... Searchable by field. Highly entertaining. Enjoy!!
[click search iconect 24/7, then email.pst, fiddle around w/it ... it's a lot of fun]
DMG, you seem to be missing an important point: one does not fault those in power when a criminal activity occurs unless there is some connection, and there is a difference between a President not policing activity unknown to him (Bush’s buddy Kenny Boy wasn’t exactly a household name until 2001) and an administration that ignores KNOWN criminal behavior. It looks particularly bad when the administration looking the other way is headed by someone whose single largest lifetime contributor is the beneficiary of that neglect.
"But hey, what do I know? Go ahead and call Pickler a fucking cunt if it makes you feel better. Actually - that's exactly what you're doing - making yourself feel better, while accomplishing nothing."
James, if this post is representative of your gentle persuasion method, good luck.
"Why is this so hard for you to figure out? And why do you think that a forceful email or phone call denouncing right-wing bias in a newspaper article is an example of compliant and impotent behavior because it does not include the words "fuck" or "asshole?""
Nothing like a handy strawman to kick, but what's your point?
" calling someone - ANYONE - at the paper an asshole, who ever is making the complaint is automatically dismissed. Period. "
Tell that to Adam Clymer.
And my point, since you seemed to miss it, is that the people doing this shit are not open to reasoned persuasion. Do you honestly think that Ms. Prickler is going to change her evil ways after you send her a polite note pointing out what a biased GWB media whore she is. Right.
This is a war, not a debating contest. Reason and logic are not enough. So say more than "ass hole", but give up your dream that you will change Pickler's biased reporting (propoganda) through good manners.
Question: I'd never heard of Nedra Pickler before Atrios posted some of her rubbish last week. By giving her all this attention, are we helping to expose someone who, as Athenae said, may have been assigned to pick apart the Dean campaign -- that is to say exposing Pickler as a dimwitted RNC tool that should be ignored from the get-go so her Dean-bashing isn't mistaken for real reporting by the masses. OR, are we giving her way more attention than she deserves, raising her profile and acting way too defensive about her silly articles? Just wondering what's the best course of action.
Lori,
my main point is there isplenty of blame to go around; pushing Enron as a partisan issue (in particular at Bush) rings a bit hollow to me since it seems pretty clear the wrongdoing occurred on another's watch (not Clinton's, but FERC, the SEC, CFTC and other agencies responsible for accuracy in accounting) and well before his term began. Tax-remote SPV's have been around in various forms for decades. The structured finance specialists at Enron were as knowledgeable as they were devious -- if you expect the likes of Dubya or his lieutenants (or in fact any government agency) to protect you from their malfeasance, you're asking for it. Better to keep your money in municipal bonds and not invest in mysteriously profitable trading enterprises.
Mutual fund managers and bank creditors and to some extent the doting financial press are abetting this foolishness-- enron's financial statements were famously opaque and nobody seems to have cared, so long as their stock kept going up.
Guys - WRITE to the Post, to AP, to Pickler.
DO IT. It's the only way to fight this nonsense.
DianaMG, another thing that you've conveniently overlooked with your "clinton watch" theory is the republican controlled congress veto overide of the 1995 litigation reform act.
Speaking of anagrams, I guess we could ask WaPo for
Plainer Dreck
or perhaps they need to admit she is just a
Dreck Pen Liar
Diana - don't be ridiculous. None of this is about Enron's bookkeeping shenanigans up before they became public knowledge. I didn't expect either the Clinton or Bush administrations to function as CPAs for every American corporation.
What it is about is the fact that the Bush administration pushed policy vis-a-vis the Caymans banking issues after it became public knowledge that it was a major banking center for Enron's multiple shell corporations. Bush's actions served to deny those defrauded by the Enron crooks the opportunity to reclaim what was stolen from them - and directly contravened what the President had pledged to do only 2 months earlier, which was, to break up terrorist financial networks by leaning on countries such as the Caymans with opaque banking practices.
So, does it matter when a president implements policies that help crooks shield ill-gotten gain from those it was stolen from, and in the process, agrees to allow a haven for terrorist financing remain in business - right after he's promised to do the opposite? I'd say that it does.
Dogbreath said:
"Nothing like a handy strawman to kick, but what's your point?"
What “strawman?” What the hell are you talking about?
I said calling Pickler obscene names isn’t going to have any impact on right wing bias at AP. It will just cause them to circle the wagons (which they already seem to be doing.)
To which your responded:
“That's right. It's not like the wingers got anywhere with the media using those shocking tactics, now, did they.
Be a nice, polite, compliant and impotent democrat and then they will listen to you for sure, right after they finish laughing at you.”
I can see why you’d want to back away from the first part of your argument. The idea that the right-wingers became so dominant in the national media because they were willing to call reporters obscene names is pretty silly, so I don't blame you for disowning it. But why are you accusing me of employing a strawman? I didn’t substitute a false argument for the one you put forth. I’m responding directly to the argument you actually MADE. The nice thing about threads like these is that your posts are still visible, where every one can read them, so why pretend you didn’t say what you actually said? Do you think my mousewheel is broken, and I can’t scroll back up the page?
Not only have you falsely accused me of employing a strawman, you’ve tossed out a straw man of your own. I never called on anyone to be “nice, polite, compliant and impotent.” I just said it only backfires when you call reporters obscene names. You associated this with being impotent - not me.
Dogbreath said:
”And my point, since you seemed to miss it, is that the people doing this shit are not open to reasoned persuasion.”
Dogbreath, that may have been ONE of your points, but it isn’t the one I was responding to. At the risk of repeating myself, I’ll try once more to clear up this little “misunderstanding” – you claimed that the wingers achieved their current position of media prominence through what you call “shocking tactics." That’s the nonsensical “point” I was responding to.
“Do you honestly think that Ms. Prickler is going to change her evil ways after you send her a polite note pointing out what a biased GWB media whore she is. Right.”
That’s not what I said. Again with your strawmen. Here’s the whole of my quote to which you innitially responded:
“PS: Those of you who want to write the AP and call The Pickle names and tell her to fuck off or whatever, should think twice. Acting like that just makes AP editors feel superior in ignoring whatever valid point you might have to make. By all means, complain and complain loudly, but point out what The Pickle has done and continues to do wrong - don't call her names. You just hurt your own cause and look like a Freeper in the process.”
I didn’t say you had to be polite. I’m all for anger, and expressing it clearly and directly. You just don’t have to call someone a fucking bitch, or a ho, or a cunt, or whatever in or
(con.) order to do it. Do you think there only two options: A) to be compliant and impotent, or B) to insult people personally? This sounds more like the limits of your own thinking, not anything I said.
I’m not going to keep going in circles with you over this. We're supposed to be on the same side, and I’d rather save my arguments for people like The Pickle. But, once again, if calling her dirty names makes you feel “potent,” hey, go right ahead.
satiRic air tanK,
"...are we giving her way more attention than she deserves, raising her profile and acting way too defensive about her silly articles?"
That's a good point, but consider that there are only a handful of AP reporters assigned the campaign beat--the first two being Adam Nagourney and Pickler--and what Nedra dissembles will be picked up as AP Wire news by countless news outlets.
'Course, the way things are, complaining probably won't do much, but it's better than saying nothing at all.
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