I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
OT:
the unelectable one has been googlebombed and it looks like it's working.. though sporadically.
google it & see..
Anyone who calls Bremer a "colonial ruler" is an utter fuckwit. Why link to such unbelievable crap?
Yet another attempt by Atrios to spin the Iraq situation leftward. And, as is his wont, he again uses facts to expose the hypocrisy and perfidy of the administration instead of sticking to the accepted innuendo and demagoguery.
I'm pretty sure this means Atrios is effeminate. And I'll bet the girls in Baghdad would rather just stay home, anyway.
You mean Chalabi isn't gay?
Or, maybe it's just that no woman in her right mind would want to get anywhere near Chalabi.
Unless her name is Judith Miller.
I'm pretty sure this means Atrios is effeminate. And I'll bet the girls in Baghdad would rather just stay home, anyway.
Hudson | Email | Homepage | 12.20.03 - 9:37 pm | #
What Hudson said! and the parents (government in place of parents for the orphans) can arrange marriages for the stay at home girls. They can be married at age 13 to 50 year old dudes.
clenis,
Well, what is he then? Viceroy Jerry has a nice ring to it for me.
Steve, he is the civilian administrator of the CPA. It is infantile and transparent to go sticking propaganda labels on people.
Oh, and Iraq is not a US colony. Anyone who pretends that the US maintains colonies is such a political whacko that there's no point in paying any attention to their other lies.
It's always amazed me that the party that so wants to proclaim the importance of two parent families to properly raise children also wants nothing to do with a women's influence outside the home.
Nope. No hypocrisy there.
So far we haven't been too good about giving them political representation.
That’s nothing a little Martha Stewart, Opra, Dr. Phil and a whole lot of antidepressants won’t solve. Just look at Americaca.
hate to see ourselves write this but, since, in reality world (instead of the bizarro world of the media) Iraq is quite possibly hurtling along towards Irandom, it might be in the dears' interest to not be remembered as insufficiently eager to put on a veil. Considering what we did twice now to the dears of Afghanistan, it might be ten times worse than an American's communist sympathies in the thirties being dredged up in the fifties...
Has clenis noticed the huge chunk of the South Pacific that is labeled as American? If that ain't a colony, I don't know what is.
northsylvania,
Dude, those are "protectorates". It's all about the semantics, baby!
You mean Chalabi isn't gay?
I know his daughter, for what it's worth. She seems a bit odd to me, but we have several friends in common so I keep my mouth shut. Not that his having a daughter necessarily means anything...
Bush wants them to have DEMOCRACY, but maybe in small case - democracy.
In spite of all the evidence against it (Florida 2000, California 2003, Texas redistricting part 4, and on and on) I'm a big fan of democracy.
But I'd rather have a non-democratic form of government which respects women in Iraq than a democratic governmental system that shuts women out. If that means that I hate Islam, well then I hate Islam.
"democratic governmental system that shuts women out"
ugh...
Oh, and clenis, your point is well taken, but we were told that this little misadventure would take six months tops. In and out. Over and done. (Of course, we were told this without ever actually being told this. All the predictions we were given included a dash of plausible deniability. Several hundred thousand troops? You're fired! $200 billion in expenses, perhaps? You're fired! And do you really think the Rovester gameplanned for an election to be held with THIS going on? That sound you hear is Mr. Karl jumping around like a one-legged cat trying to bury shit on a frozen pond: "Right this way, Mr. Baker....")
Who's the more important liar, the insignificant blogger who's fed up with this shit, or the POTUS who appointed the non-colonial ruler?
Lt. Kroker:
WE had such a system until the 1920's.
And it wasn't too easy to be black and vote well into the 1960s. Come to think of it, Florida ain't yet exactly accommodating....
Democratic don't mean inclusive.
sigh, why does america hate women?
you're semantically right (the best kind of correct). But it is neither moral nor stable. "Democratic" by the way is never nowadays used for its actual meaning, it refers to a crude muddy idea of Roosevelt's Four Freedoms. We were never a democracy and never wanted to be (Founders equated "democracy" with mob [functionally meaning no] law)-we were a republic. But when we speak of the "free world" or whatever, we're talking in part about unfair exclusion from the Franchise.
Or like I said, ugh...
If that means that I hate Islam, well then I hate Islam.
There’s simply nothing quite like the all Americacan no brainer.
Well, I want my Muslim sisters to be able to burn the veil, or not even be Muslims, or not even be sisters, if that's what they want. But like k&y and Hudson have said, we're looking into the future at a bad place which is probably gonna be none too friendly to anything female.
Thanks, Miserable Failure!
Ugh...
democracy doesn't mean "majority rule." Minority protections are part of any democracy. Our original "minority" was rural interests. Thus the senate.
So, which is worse? Using an iron fist to control the religious fundies while allowing the women equality in education and jobs....or freeing the poor fundies so they can turn around and oppress the entire female population?
Considering both the Baath party and the CPA feel it necessary to shoot and imprison groups or individuals engaging in politcal dissent I wonder where all this liberation the war supporters keep bragging about is taking place? (This is really just a rhetorical question as we all know it's all in their twisted little minds.)
"...jumping around like a one-legged cat trying to bury shit on a frozen pond..."
Now that's what I call a simile!
For the last fucking time: Islam is not inherently anti-woman. Some Muslims are anti-woman and some of them are in positions of power and thus create laws that are anti-woman. This makes Islam no different than just about any other religion or group I can think of.
isnt judith miller fucking chalabai?
Apparently the model for Iraqs women will be Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. They've done so well by them there.
This was predicted a while back on these very threads. If this turns into an issue expect many repititions of the phrase "rape room". It's turning out to be their answer to everything.
What's in a name? Call him anything you want Bremer is a colonial ruler, the director behind the puppet theatre, placed there by the invading country.
The best hope for keeping Iraq together and with something like democracy might be the weighted voting proposed by Lani Guanier but being associated with Clinton and a woman it won't be considered seriously.
I am not saying Islam is inherently antiwomen. I'm saying Islamic Fundamentalist leadership's are inherently repressive for women.
For instance, compare life for women under the Taliban to life under Saddam. There is no question which one was worse for women in general.
Apparently we weren't as interested in mainting a secular society that included religious freedom as we were in creating a chaotic nation where everyone is free to inflict their relgious beliefs on their neighbors.
I don't expect to see a secular type of government in Iraq again for a long long time even though it would have been in our best national interest to keep it that way.
To me this is just another failure of planning and leadership in carrying out a war of choice. Didn't they have enough years to plan how to do this thing even halfway right?
Didn't they have enough years to plan how to do this thing even halfway right?
If you go to war to make it good for Ariel Sharon, you wouldn't be thinking too hard now, would you?
Well, what is he then? Viceroy Jerry has a nice ring to it for me.
steve_gilliard | Email | Homepage | 12.20.03 - 10:20 pm | #
Viceroy Jerry is a bit informal. Great White Bwana would be better.
My vote is for "Proconsul Bremer".
As far as rights of chicks go, Atrios, do you actually believe that the George Walker Bush administration cares at all about basic human rights? In Iraq? In Afghanistan? Anywhere?
It's all about the profits ...
Speaking of the long colonial history of the US, here is a book for those interested:
Puerto Rico: US Colony in the Caribbean
Iraq most certainly is a US colonial possession. It will be now, for some time. That is what "transforming the middle east" is all about: invasion, occupation, and transforming all the lands into corporate colonies.
You're wrong, Atrios, "democracy" does mean "majority rule" at the founding of the US. Book up on Federalist papers.
We don't live in a democracy, technically, we live in a representative democracy or a republic.
The earliest political division in the US was between Democratic Republicans, who wanted the first tier of leaders to have all the power, and Federalists, who wanted representatives of representatives who ruled the representatives who ruled the people.
The early Federalists were plutocrats, like today's Republicans. They wanted to instruct the people. They thought of themselves as more fit to govern and rule. Early Democrats wanted to instruct the representatives. They wanted leaders who were typical men and did not want leaders who thought of themselves as superior men.
This division plays into the C19 as Democrats v. Whigs and is pretty much blurred by the C20.
The whole debate about where power lies in a republic - is it with the people, who are chosen to represent, or is with their representatives, who are chosen because they are better - is fundamental and it's something we have to revisit. If the Democrats can open the eyes of Americans to the fundamentally undemocratic nature of Bush's rule, then we win by a landslide.
I am not saying Islam is inherently antiwomen. I'm saying Islamic Fundamentalist leadership's are inherently repressive for women.
Show me a fundamentalist leadership of any religion that isn't inherently repressive for women.
It was the attitude towards women that was one of the first things to turn me off to Christianity.
You won't hear any arguements promoting a religious government of any kind from me.
Militant dykes from outer space should impose old-fashioned communal propertied, pre-signifier-consuming, qadishtu (or devadasy)-brokered goddess worship. That'd be the most just, and also the most likely, way for chicks to get out of this alive. Meanwhile on Earth, Iraq is somewhere between Iran, Saudi and Kuwait, not just physically but mentally. Not good. The pc straw man spearing morons upthread (Islam is not anti-woman! And you know what, stupid? Christianity is not anti-jew! Guess that explains Martin Luther through Adolf, as well as acid splashed in the exposed face!) distracted us from the real problem: like Afghanistan, this will not get "better".
But the rape rooms are gone! Guess no expression of any kind is better than rape rooms, ey?
"...jumping around like a one-legged cat trying to bury shit on a frozen pond..."
Now that's what I call a simile!
Orbitron | Email | Homepage | 12.21.03 - 2:05 am | #
I stole that from "North Dallas Forty". Credit where it's due.
And I don't know whether Islam is "inherently anti-women", but I do know that Catholicism is. If you disagree, go ask your local neighborhood Catholic priestess.
k&y:Militant dykes from outer space should impose old-fashioned communal propertied, pre-signifier-consuming, qadishtu (or devadasy)-brokered goddess worship.
H:local neighborhood Catholic priestess.
maybe the militant dykes from outer space should help us out too.
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