I'MMA LET YOU FINISH
It's remarkable how many people are not fooled on this crucial issue.
But why doesn't this translate into low support for Bush and his War?
Atrios,
I LOVE AMERICA.
If Marsians conquered Earth and caught me said that they will take everything I got, but I can keep one thing - and only one thingw. I would say can I keep the American citizenship.
The LH-DOW crowd here does not get it. They have not lived under non-democratic societies. They do not know that freedom is the most precious thing in the world, more precious than water.
I LOVE AMERICA.
AKB
PS: Since I got many hatemails at alikarimbey@yahoo.com, I have decided to leave you LH-DOW crowd to yourselfs. Goodbye. Adios.
What's up with Albert A. Gore III driving around Bethesda in a Cadillac without any headlights on, high on pot? I guess since his dad endorsed Howard Dean, he has to compete with Paul Dean to see who can get the longest rap sheet.
Scrolling down in that poll, 14% of Republicans said they'd consider voting for Dean. SOMEONE's thinking clearer than Joe Lieberman is...
Using the grytpype test: But why doesn't this translate into low support for Bush and his War?
Because, all news -- ALL news -- is good news for Bush! Haven't you been reading Karl Rove's missives here?
Gosh, keep up!
.
Grytpype: Because polls are bullshit. How many people do you know that see through the GOP's incessant, heavy-handed propoganda? A lot, right?
It's just that simple.
AKB:
Just my private view on your exit:
"Don't let the door hit you in the ass!"
Whether it made us safer or not, the removal of Hussein from power was a good thing. The world is a better place with Saddam in a cell.
The crux of the matter is the inconsistency, incompetence and deception of the American people displayed by the Bush regime in achieving Saddam's removal.
Our President should be much better.
That "why does XXX hate America" thing is worn out. Find something new.
Who do facts hate America as much as Ali Karim Bey?
Hey Anonymous, you know that Laura Bush killed her ex-boyfriend in a mysterious hit and run accident, right? You know that Bush was so blown on nose candy for most of the 1970s that he went AWOL from the National Guard, right? You know that Bush paid for his ex-girlfiend's illegal abortion in 1970, right? You know the Bush daughters are notorious fall down drunks at both UT Austin and Yale? As in, friends of mine have seen them puking their guts out?
So Dean is ahead of the curve again by defying CW, or rather, Beltway Wisdom. Looks like catching Saddam will provide less of a poll bounce than, say, the preznit-giv-me-turkee photo op.
Maybe now Kerry will stop humping Bush's leg on the national security issue. No hope that Lieberman would be able to drag himself away from Bush's shapely calves, of course.
Why doesn't this translate into low support for Bush and his War?
Most Americans supported the first Gulf War and considered it a defeat when Bush didn't go all the way to Baghdad. They've been waiting over a decade for this moment. "Yeah, we got him. Whoopee! A superbowl moment. Yip." I don't think the support has anything to do with this war. It has to do with left over feelings from the 1st war. As time wears on, it becomes more and more anti-climatic.
As the euphoria wears off, so will the support. Especially if the attacks continue and they are asked to fork out another 87 billion (which will, unfortunately, probably happen right after the election.)
The funny paradox: corporate commentators, in one and the same breathe, claim the US is safer with Saddam in custody, but they revel in the fact that he was found alone in a hole, i.e. a threat to no one.
"If Marsians conquered Earth and caught me said that they will take everything I got, but I can keep one thing - and only one thingw. I would say can I keep the American citizenship."
That's a very touching story, Ali. I'm sure the aliens from outer space would be moved by your request. Maybe you should write up your story for "Chicken Soup for the Jackboot Licker's Soul."
Au revoir AKB, and don't let Ashcroft deport you for not having a Christian name.
I have an offbeat theory about what Bush's "bump in the polls" over Saddam's capture means- it actually means that a small, rather than large, bump was rather good news for Bush. See what you think:
In economics, they talk about "discounting" future events. That is, the market will figure a high probablity future event into the current price. (note: for you literalists, discount doesn't have to mean "lower", it could be a negative discount.)
Well, wasn't most of America (including yours truly) pretty sure Saddam was dead during the first month? Would you have bet against it without a real good payback, even after the first tape surfaced? Could anybody reasonably think that he would still be at large by Nov. 2004, whether it was the fighting keyboarders who are so sure of America's Tom Clancy like omnipetence, or us actually clued-in types that realized that Saddam was of minor and only short-term use to the Iraqi resistance?
So everybody in America had to figure that he'd be captured. But some of them began to start to have doubts, anyway.
So the after poll was the true "discounted price." The difference between that and the before poll were those people that had actually really started to wonder about Dear Leader.
This misAdminstration is all smoke and mirrors, once somebody starts to wonder about them, get a little suspicious, the illusion starts to crumble.
We're gonna get those people back, and soon.
I agree, DM, I think we're finally starting to see a return of the pendulum. We're going to beat the crap out of these dweebs in 2004.
Or, in the words of Wes Clark: "We're going to beat the shit out of them."
How do you like them apples, Chimp?
God how I hate getting sucked into taking polls seriously, but am I even interpreting this one correctly? Seems that Bush's 6 point higher approval rating is attributable entirely to Dems. Is this right?
Iraq was a bad bet for Bush and it takes time to lose your house at the gaming tables. He'll lose, because he's a loser. It's happening faster than I imagined, but it still takes time.
Is Iraq safer for Iraqis, America, or the world? Who knows? Unaccounted for WMDs. Al Quaeda suicide bombers. Civil war on the horizon. Islamic Republic of Iraq. Bush premature exit to get elected for once (he'll sue to be able to run in 2008-thanx unka Jim), etc.
But in a sign the race could still shift, the number of voters who do not have a candidate choice has also grown, up to 28 percent today from 23 percent one month ago.
Sure, and 85% of them are "Dean or Clark . . . Dean . . . or Clark?"
OT - Josh Marshall's been written up in the WaPo's Sunday Source, and he refers to our beloved Atrios as one blog (along with two other blogs) he reads regularly.
http://tinyurl.com/ypnb4
I'm under his Thumb: Sure, and 85% of them are "Dean or Clark . . . Dean . . . or Clark?"
No, really! Thumb on my pulse, exactly.
.
Dear Atrios,
Rather than buy you another season of Buffy on DVD, could we maybe chip in to purchase a Haloscan account upgrade for you? So that we could have registered users and thus weed out trolls like Anonymous?
Happy Holidays and yours sincerely,
GT
SHIT a troll is leaving
gotta pick up the slack.
Thumb on my pulse, exactly.
You're not supposed to take a pulse with your thumb, even though doctors always seem to do it in the movies...
Whenever I'm trying to sway (supposedly) moderate repubs (my family) with the truth, I play the logic card.
I say, look despite whether we agree the war in Iraq was a good idea or not lets look at Bush logically.
He had a FANTASTIC opportunity to start and spread Democracy in the Middle East starting in Iraq by changing the regime right?
I think we can all agree that Democracy in the Middle East would be good for pretty much everyone.
So, once "Major" combat operations ceased, what happened? Did our troops swoop in and protect the ministries that held important intelligence info about WMD's or Torture or Rape, or any Cultural treasures like the Museum?
No.
Only 3 things were done immediately, first, the Oil fields were seized. 2nd the Oil Ministry was protected, and a mosaic of Bush Sr. was torn up.
Did we have any plans in place to stabilize the country post combat?
No.
We were expected to be welcomed as liberators, so very little planning for the post war phase was done.
Did we have any plans in place to bring Iraqi water and power back on line quickly, including any contingency plans for damaged infrastructure?
No.
So basically, we had a Golden Opportunity to foster Democracy in the Middle East if we'd just listened to the analysts who warned us about what might happen (and now is happening), and planned for it.
You're telling me that you want to give 4 more years to a man and his administration who blew that kind of an opportunity, through malfeasance and incompetence? Sheer logic says you don't want to give a man like that another chance at anything other than clearing Brush at his ranch.
This usually works pretty well on all but the most right wing Christian Fundamentalists who won't listen to ANYTHING logically.
So maybe there are some voters out there that were polled who are logical?
Cheers
but when Karl pulls Osama out of his ass, or when IX/XI gets entirely the wrong kind of commemoration thanks to our disruption of the stability of the world, will they also "get it"? Will Dems have the balls to yell over the rubble, "DO NOT rally around that drunk! That miserable failure let it happen again!"
AKB said "The LH-DOW crowd here does not get it. They have not lived under non-democratic societies.'
What makes you think that? My family has lived under a totalitarian regime...one that the US helped to power as a matter of fact BUT hey that was a long time ago.
a
"Will Dems have the balls to yell over the rubble, "DO NOT rally around that drunk! That miserable failure let it happen again!"
Judging by their words thus far, both Dean and Clark look like they have the balls to tell it like it is to the American public.
The LH-DOW crowd here does not get it. They have not lived under non-democratic societies.
You mean a society that disenfranchises minorities, recalls duly elected governors, changes districting rules to entrench the majority party's power, not to mention a central government that disrespects the sovereign law of states when counting votes, dismisses hundreds of thousands of marchers as "focus groups", and disregards the constitutional rights of its people?
"BAGHDAD, 21 December 2003 — Iraqi police said US troops mistakenly shot dead three of their officers near the northern city of Kirkuk as Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar of Spain paid an unannounced pre-Christmas visit yesterday to the Spanish military contingent here."
Jeebus :rolleyes:
a
"I agree, DM, I think we're finally starting to see a return of the pendulum. We're going to beat the crap out of these dweebs in 2004.
Old Hat "
well, er, only if the votes are counted.
Tell everyone you know to vote absentee to guarantee your vote isn't Diebolded.
"DO NOT rally around that drunk!
To be cliche at the Atrios level...
Why do you hate Howard Dean?
http://www.nydailynews.com/front...7p-
118729c.html
Iraq is more fucked up now than it has been for quite a while. Full out civil war is not out of the question. Thousands of innocent Iraqis have already died since the US invasion.
Thanks President Bush!
The LH-DOW crowd here does not get it. They have not lived under non-democratic societies.
Watch as I make sweeping assumptions about a bunch of anonymous people on a blog! Who may, for all I know, all be the same guy changing his personal info over and over!
[troll voice] I'll bet none of you Atrios readers have ever done anything patriotic in your LIVES! I'll bet none of you have ever been to church! I'll bet none of you own DOGS! HAH! [/troll voice]
I mean, really, the pointlessness factor ...
A.
I am always amazed that someone would consider the ending of torture, rape rooms and mass graves as "fucked up". Frankly I am surprised that Saddam was able to find a hole in Iraq to hide in that didn't contain the bodies of Iraqis he tortured and killed.
If getting rid of Saddam didn't make America safer, how did bombing Kosovo make America safer?
We didn't go to war in kosovo claiming it was the central front in the "war on terror."
Pretty weak answer there, Atrios. Where was the imminent threat that Clark and Dean require, now, before committing US troops?
I bet if we convince everyone that Saddam is gay, that these numbers would be much improved.
see, trolls are useful. they keep our 'knives' sharpened. i saw, have fun with trolls, like kitty cats have with mice.
yes, trolls are our cat-nip toys.
i am sure the uptick in george's polls were due to media euphoria and basic human nature.
"If getting rid of Saddam didn't make America safer, how did bombing Kosovo make America safer?"
Kosovo didn't make America safer, nor was making America safer the logic behind going there. No one lied to the American public by telling us that if we didn't go into Kosovo we might be nuked. No one told America that Kosovo would make us safer from terrorism. And we didn't lose the respect and cooperation of the entire damn world when we saved those Kosovars.
Bush and company lied. Iraq had no WMDs that were a threat to anyone, much less our country thousands of miles away from Iraq. Saddam had no ties to Al-Qaeda. He hated and feared what them just as they hated and feared him. No one ever said going to Kosovo would help stem the tides of Islamist terrorism. Now go fuck yourself you ignorant Foxfed trash.
As for the central front of terror, it is working into Bush's favor now that Libya has bowed down to Bush and Blair and is providing details on international terrorism. This is all due to the liberation of Iraq. Muammar saw the writing on the wall. He knew he could be the next despot stuck in a spider hole looking up at a US Corporal. Who will be next week's capitulator?
In Kosovo, we had full NATO support. That's 19 allies, real allies working together to stop an ongoing genocide. It's a judgement call but I think genocide transcends questions of national security. It's simply immoral to ignore modern holocausts when we have the power to stop them.
Compare that to the current so-called "vast coalition," consisting of mighty global players like Micronesia and the Marshall Islands.
Anonymous is "always amazed that someone would consider the ending of torture, rape rooms and mass graves as 'fucked up'"
ending?
they and worse things existed because Terrorist Supporter Reagan and Pappy Bush wanted them to or tolerated them. More to the point, on which alternate Earth are they ending? You surely mean like how much improved Afghanisarmpit is? It won't get better, it'll get much worse. We have reason to fear a Shiia "Islamic Revolution", if only because the only people who can successfully fight the majority Shiia have been divided and tied down by us.
"I am always amazed that someone would consider the ending of torture, rape rooms and mass graves as "fucked up".
We do? I guess because we're not going to war with Islam Karimov then we must all support his regime right?
Those against the war didn't rally cos they supported saddam hussein, that whole 'with us or against us' cowboy BS is for political retards.
I'm not going to argue with you why my not supporting the war doesn't make me a supporter of saddam hussein, if you can't work it out for yourself then no amount of my reasoning will change your mind and I've made my point of view clear on here many times.
So please carry on thinking that all these people who don't support the war are lovers of saddam hussein if it makes you happy but while we are on the subject of human rights abuse here's something for you to consider:
"(Washington, DC) – A new Amnesty International report charges that in 2002, the Bush Administration violated the spirit of its own export policy and approved the sale of equipment implicated in torture to Yemen, Jordan, Morocco and Thailand, despite the countries' documented use of such weapons to punish, mistreat and inflict torture on prisoners."
a
"Saddam’s existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a very real threat to America, now. Saddam has used chemical weapons before, both against Iraq’s enemies and against his own people. He is working to develop delivery systems like missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles that could bring these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and U.S. facilities in the Middle East." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002
Dear AKB,
You should sue your mom for making you not only a moron, but a tool of the man. Shame on you.
Sincerely,
H.
p.s. I had a dream in which Che told me you were a horse's ass. Che don't lie.
"This is all due to the liberation of Iraq. Muammar saw the writing on the wall."
Bullshit. Qaddafi has been making real overtures to the rest of the world for the past decade.
That's funny, Clinton Administration considered Kamilov an ally. Are you suggesting that the Bush Administration tarnish a relationship fostered by Clinton?
http://www.thememoryhole.org/pol...an-
albright.jpg
"Who will be next week's capitulator?"
well jeezus on a stick.
considering that muammar has been trying to normalize for years and would not be noticed by savvier news junkies if he danced the charleston on a flagpole, would you perhaps be willing to put really a lot of money on North Korea or Iran? Yeah, that Kim, he'll get on his knees any minute now, he's been so conciliatory all along. As for Iran, are you familiar with how bloody viciously they fought, room by room, floor by floor, building by building and block by block, against their various incursions in the Fifties? Come to think of it, we didn't have a very easy time of it in 1950s Korea either.
*Please* bet money????
Bullshit. Qaddafi has been making real overtures to the rest of the world for the past decade.
If that is the case, I must have missed that photo op of Madeline Albright and Muammar Qadhafi toasting with champagne over the negotiations that ended his nuclear program. We all know how well Madame Secretary was at eliminating nuclear threats through diplomacy.
headline of next week
khartoum's weak junta opens that segment of sudan which it controls to international inspectors, just in case a country unable to produce aspirin is making nukes
bush welcomes khartoum's leaders
american public insufficiently stupid to give a rat's ass
Why does America hate America?
This is getting tricky.
Anon, a moose: "If that is the case, I must have missed that photo op of Madeline Albright and Muammar Qadhafi toasting with champagne over the negotiations that ended his nuclear program. We all know how well Madame Secretary was at eliminating nuclear threats through diplomacy."
Albright was shit, Albright rejoiced in the murder of children. But Bush's incompetant hacks are little better than children, and so manage to be worse. As far as Lybia ending its "nuclear program" (what about it starting its "toilet program" or its "electricity program"?), what the fuck is wrong with you?
Former
Soviet
Union
All the nukes-already extant, ya don't have to invent them-ya can carry!
Why in a world with hundreds of thousands existing nukes is the most terrible thing on rightists' minds the chance that some podunk armpit sand hole without indoor plumbing might actually invent some absurd super-weapon? Could it be because our incompetant diplomats have incredibly let it happen in North Korea?
Shorter troll:
Clinton did it too!
Dumber troll:
Not really possible.
*please* bet money on your previous assertion that North Korea will just sorta "give up" on fifty years of cult life, you know, just like Jonestown had the good sense to surreneder when the nice nonthreatening federal agents stormed in? *please*?
As for Iran, are you familiar with how bloody viciously they fought, room by room, floor by floor, building by building and block by block, against their various incursions in the Fifties?
Yes and we heard this same scary scenario that was spouted by left about taking Baghdad. Not going to happen. The Mullahs of Iran have no more support than their force of arms allow.
what is this fucking obsession with Rape Rooms? isn't rape bad enough? check it out, bush can't say the word "rape" without the word "room." weird.
Thanks for avoiding addressing the article from Amnesty International.
But since you are 'interested' in the history of Uzbek Foreign Policy here is a link for you. I know it doesn't have pictures but if you read it a few times, you may get it. (hint hint)
http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~asia...01/
0101a004.htm
"President Bush agreed that security cooperation, particularly on counter terrorism, has opened a new chapter in US-Uzbekistan relations," White House national security spokesman Sean McCormack told reporters.
Another pact agreed to on Tuesday provides small- and medium-sized Uzbek businesses a 55-million dollar credit from the US Export-Import Bank to purchase US goods. " (March 13)
What's that talk about human rights again?
a
Libya's Nuclear Program--http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/africa/
12/19/libya.nuclear/
As soon as Amnesty International addresses 35 years of Saddam Hussein's murderous reign in Iraq instead of being concerned about his ability to get a "fair trial", I will have some sort of respect for anything coming out their PR department.
http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar200...pcountries/
IRAQ
"The Mullahs of Iran have no more support"
Enthusiastically and completely agreed. But you are sidestepping, coward: the issue is the support they would have for a hostile foreign invader who has hurt them numerous times in the past. Remember Milosevic's popularity?
"Libya's Nuclear Program" especially if from the propagandists at cnn
not our point. are any of you now or have you ever been seriously sleepless over Lybia, the Next Super Power?
Again, all those nukes and we're worried about the possibility a new super weapon might emerge from some nothing-state's ass. Straw. Man. Hell, Straw Eurasia, of which we have always been afraid.
Plus rorschach's comments on the uselessness and relative undesirability of wmds.
Anonymous, you just got sonned, son.
my bet is that Awol is making nice with Libya now since his plans for lots of oil flowing from Iraq is running into some "technical difficulties." releasing this info on a Friday keeps the Kean IX/XI statements off the Sunday morning talk shows, not that they were getting that much traction in the SCLM already.
p.s. AKB found out that to be to be a "private dick" he had to stop being a public one
"As soon as Amnesty International addresses 35 years of Saddam Hussein's murderous reign in Iraq instead of being concerned about his ability to get a "fair trial", I will have some sort of respect for anything coming out their PR department."
Ditto, but for the fact that they alread have addressed his abuses and this has no relative bearing on wanting a fair trial (are we not supposed to be morally superior? think that's by fiat?), and plus we want the American war criminals who supported Hussein also tried and reported on.
sorry, should have been aWol in the previous post
LIVE FROM PYONGYANG
KEI AND YURI DO TRIUMPH DANCE
ON ANON, A MOOSE'S RAVAGED BODY
AND THEN GO TO BED
(it's siestaski time here in Vilnius, Lithuania, where we undoubtably are, except when we're in Pyonyang)
As soon as Amnesty International addresses 35 years of Saddam Hussein's murderous reign in Iraq instead of being concerned about his ability to get a "fair trial", I will have some sort of respect for anything coming out their PR department.
That, followed less than a minute later by this:
http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2001.nsf/
webmepcountries/IRAQ
...should be indisputable proof that this particular troll is simply too stupid to warrant further replies. It is immune to reason, and incapable of comprehension. Give up.
Everyone should check out the link above.
"exposes the version peddled by American spin doctors as incomplete".
Every single fuckin time...
Or, in the words of Wes Clark: "We're going to beat the shit out of them."
Did he really say that? cool.
If getting rid of Saddam didn't make America safer, how did bombing Kosovo make America safer?
Uh, dumb ass, we didn't go there because we were threatened by the Serbians, we went there to stop the ethnic cleansing. So who was safer? why the Kosovars of course.
As for AKB, I guess it's safe to assume that your mom is taking the computer away. Ever since I read your parting post I've been hearing an old song from the 70's in my head called Smoke From A Distant Fire. The chorus goes like this:
Don't let the screen door hit you
on your way out
Good riddance.
I think that the best position for the Dems to take on gay marriage is to call for a standstill agreement. No more jurisdictions will make innovations in marriage or domestic partnership, and those that have them can have them in peace. Nothing will be done to change the status quo.
"Saddam was not captured as a result of any American or British intelligence"
Tightly wrapped, exposed CIA agent crashes CNN XMas Party and wraps fingers around wolf's neck and squeezes tight enough to pop his overpaid eyeballs right from their sockets...
then glances toward Aaron and Kyra, and softly, gently, says; "Your next... right after I find Novak"
Dear Trolls:
ENLIST
Yes, Clark really did say he would "beat the shit out of" any Republican who try to pull a Rove vs. McCain by smearing his family or his military record.
This is the kind of fire in the belly and hunger that the Democratic party needs. Clark's got it.
OT: I just realized why the wingers liked Thumb so much. He's so... opposable.
.
It's amazing how bizarrely wrong Anonymous is. Kadaffi has been trying to do this for a decade, and just now reached an agreement with the U.S. He was apparently so cowed by the war in Iraq that he decided to try and come clean ten years before we invaded. *That's* a good war.
He also cites Jay Rockefeller, who was most likely lied to (if the Senators who say that administration officials told them Iraq had active weapons that could reach the East Coast are to be believed), and then entirely ignores how the case has fallen apart.
And then l'il AKB. After months of trying to derail every thread, and then insulting everyone who wouldn't play along, he takes his ball and goes home. We'd care, except that it's a football and we're playing hockey.
If getting rid of Saddam didn't make America safer, how did bombing Kosovo make America safer?
Can I also remark that the campaign in Kosovo was designed to stop the conflict from spilling over into other countries, thereby starting a series of regional wars?
Old Hat, I agree. Fire in the belly is a good thing.
Like Father, Like Son
I took the initiative in creating the Internet. -- Albert Gore, Jr.
I took the initiative in creating the Blunt. -- Albert Gore III
Another point is, of course, that much of the strawmen left actually opposed Kosovo, as did many (but not all) on the right. And, you know what? the same is true of Iraq! The anti-war movement was not just a leftist plot.
kosovo was a "war of choice" in that it obviously wasn't a threat to the US. On balance I supported the war, though not the way it was fought. Hey, you know what, I actually dared to criticize Clinton about it many times! As did most lefties.
let he who is without blunt cast the first roach.
Al jr.'s an idiot, obviously. drugs and cars don't mix.
He also cites Jay Rockefeller...,/i>
Read this:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/w...r/
wmdquotes.asp
Too bad anonymous didn't bother to quote this part from Rockefeller's speech:
"Preventing a war with Saddam Hussein -- whether now or later -- must be our top priority , and I believe this resolution will strengthen the president’s hand to resolve this crisis peacefully."
Incapable of EVER taking responsibility...
Looks and acts just like the pResident he admires so much...
What is LH-DOW?
Wouldn't it be great if Americans felt that way because they heard it from Howard Dean? Damfacrats endorse Wes Clark, obviously, but maybe Dean's message is getting through and he's earned more credibility? THAT would be truly awesome ... the whole poll contains hopeful results and no real sign that Dean is a lock.
Here is a puzzler. I haven't heard the word "Quagmire" from the left in quite a while. Did Iraq suddenly transform from Vietnam back into Iraq and I missed the news? Qwagmire turn into Wictory?
Quagmire.
"Wictory." I like that. "Wictory" is when our soldiers accidentally shoot three Iraqi cops.
Say, have you seen the US exit plan for Iraq? It's still missing, Anonymous. You should find it for us, lest we get caught in a quagmire.
That would be "qWagmire".
Hmm, did someone say quagmire?
(the unelectable Googlebomb is working well; let's try another)
I propose AWOL for the next Googlebomb.
Wow, anon, do they teach you how to dodge like that at Team Leader school?
You got took apart on Libya. So naturally, you start talking about Gore's kid.
Typical.
Quagmire is good, too.
You can't spell "qWagmire" without "Dubya!"
Yay, team! Bush is "unelectable"!
Keep it up. It's not as simple as "miserable" or "failure". Almost, though.
He he he.
Hey anon, just in case you didn't hear:
quagmire, quagmire, quagmire.
A real puzzler is why the ability to reason is so completely lacking in the right wing.
E, DOW and LH are the incoherent ravings of a sad and mentally unwell teenager. Not even worth decoding.
Hey, Anonymous (Asshole)
How come when someone calls you on your bullshit you just keep changing the subject?
You take a shot at Amnesty like so:
"As soon as Amnesty International addresses 35 years of Saddam Hussein's murderous reign in Iraq instead of being concerned about his ability to get a "fair trial", I will have some sort of respect for anything coming out their PR department."
Which as another poster has already noted, is immediately followed by someone challenging you with this link:
http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar200...pcountries/
IRAQ
And so of course you come back with...A joke about Al Gore and the internet?
Don't the taste of your own lies ever make you sick? You're a liar - and you know it.
yeah. hes probably lying about the iq too.
yeah. hes probably lying about the iq too.
damn haloscan
D: So, where are the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?
R: It was never about WMD! It was about bringing freedom and democracy to the poor abused Iraqi people! That's the only thing that's important!
D: I could have sworn you said SOMETHING about WMD before the war...
R: QUIET YOU! Another great victory for Bush, he single-handedly convinced Libya to give up their WMD!
D: Uhh, what about freedom and democracy for the poor Libyan people? You just said we went to war to free the Iraqis, why won't we do it for Libya?
R: Why do you hate America?
D: BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU!
I'm still intrigued by the title question.
And I keep reading the header to the third paragraph as "Deceased." Sorry.
I'm sorry but you can't denounce the Iraq war and be for the NATO war. The NATO bombing of Yugoslavia was illegal. The Rambouillet talks were a joke, the Serb & Albanian sides couldn't even meet (they had to go thru Albright), the talks resulted in an ultimatum (sign this or we'll bomb you), which is illegal, AND the only conditions the Yugos couldn't agree to (1. a sovereignty referendum for Kosovo and 2. NATO ground troops in all of Yugoslavia) were dropped from the June agreement (there never has been a referendum on Kosovo sovereignty, & the ground force ended up being UN, included Russia, & only had access to Kosovo province not all of Yugoslavia). Simply put, if the terms offered after 78 days of bombing had been offered in March, the war would have been avoided. The Racak massacre turned out to be a hoax (type Racak in google and see what you get). NATO supported the KLA terrorists (who are linked to bin Laden) who continued to kill Serb civilians & burn down churches. Maybe one side wasn't better than another, but then at least admit that you took sides and stop peddling this "genocide" & "humanitarian" bullshit.
Oh, and while I'm in full insomniac-rant mode, let me say something else.
I'm sick of all these trolls trying to guilt people by saying, "So you don't care about rape rooms, torture chambers, etc." America elects a President to look out for their well-being, not for the well-being of some other country's people. The UN should be responsible for that -- the reason they suck at it is that the US (and other countries) fucks up the UN's ability to carry out it's mandate. Some tyrants are beaten up on, while others are shielded and actions against them are vetoed. Or the US just can't be bothered to help if there's nothing to plunder and control. Contrast the total deaths in Kosovo with that of Rwanda, then talk to me about altruistic humanitarian intentions.
Can I have a link to a rape room picture? I can just imagine the wallpaper.
Why do you answer the trolls?
Do those idiots on the right ever attempt truth and logic?
Anon is a waste of time and everyone should know it - like all rethugs he ignores any painful reality and yips at the ankles of nothingness - "gore jr. smoking a blunt"
There is not enough time to directly confront 1 moron jackbooted-thug; it is more important to spread positive messages of how the US will/has/can be better when it's run by Dems
atrios -
please consider moving to a moderated platform like Scoop, a la DailyKos. I admit it was an adjustment but I can barely stand to read through all the trolling on here anymore. Scoop give much more signal to noise..
let the right try and smear Al Jr. and Howard Jr. all they like.. we have photos of the Bush twins puking naked at college. Not to mention Noelle Bush's rap sheet.
This just in: CNN is about to discuss, "Holiday face-lifts."
I'm still waiting on our exit strategy for Kosovo, We were promised it would be a one year deployment. What happened?
I don't understand why Dean is said to be under fire for his war stand. Why can't he just say it is a matter of priorities and spending scarce resources on the main threats. Does having the bulk of American combat force tied down in a country that was no threat to us represent a "safer" condition? Do renewed terror threat alerts represent a "safer" condition?
And so of course you come back with...A joke about Al Gore and the internet?
That isn't a joke. Al Gore actually said that. Or do you consider what Al Gore says a joke?
No Al Gore, no internet as we know it. Send him a thank you card.
Hey, Karl, get this: "We're going to beat the shit out of them." - Wesley Clark, New Hampshire VFW Meeting, December 20, 2003. Responding to a question about W.'s smear of John McCain, and whether he would allow it against him. Check C-SPAN for details.
That would be Robert Taylor and Robert Metcalf who should be thanked.
The American people, and especially Democratic primary voters are a hell of a lot smarter than Joe Lieberman and, it pains me to say, John Kerry.
Dean is going to kick their asses and teach them what it means to stand up for your beliefs. As Dean says, its time to take back our party from the timid careerists who have latched onto it like the parasites they are.
"Gore is the person who, in the Congress, most systematically
worked to make sure that we got to an Internet."
-Newt Gingrich.
Minor point, maybe, but Al Gore, Jr. is the person who won the presidency in 2000.
His kid shouldn't be news if Neil Bush isn't.
Funny how the trolls think a good comback is "Clinton did it too".
I guess they don't realize we know that, we have occiasionally been critical of Clinton, some of us even refused to vote for him. Clinton, or Albright, or any of them never did the kinds of things that occur daily in the Bush admin, but we know he wasn't exactly a dove and some of us were critical of it at times. And in fact, a Democratic president can expect not only a hostile media but an awake and critical constituency. Dxea, like Clinton, will never get a free pass from his side.
You can score points by saying Clinton did some of these things too, because we know and reacted. It is the Right that has shown there is practically no level of atrocity that will make them revoke their vote or even criticize their main. The shame isn't in your nandidate doing something you disagree with, it's in being the kind of person who will never say so.
I anyone watching the blow job that Russert is giving to Tom (frenchman) Delay?
Russert must be enjoying the view from between Delay's legs too much to even challenge him on the most egregious statements.
email: mtp@nbc.com and ask them how much the RNC pays him to fellate the Republicans in congress
No, they just know how easy it is to get the left to trash its own.
Speaking of one who is NOT trashing his own side: Dean has an op ed in today's WaPo.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp...-
2003Dec19.html
In past years I've often heard the saying: "Amateurs look at approval numbers, pros look at reelect numbers. How come I can't find Bush reelect numbers? Does anyone know where to find them? Is it so early in the race that nobody is taking them?
My email to the whore Russert:
To Whom It May Concern,
I have been watching Meet the Press on sundays for a number of years now. Until I watched Mr. Russert's performance with Tom Delay on the show from 21 December 2003, I was under the impression that Meet the Press was a show premised on actual political discussion. What I witnessed today was a 20 minute campaign speech by Tom Delay, enabled by Mr. Russert. I was disgusted. Weak questions about even Mr. Delay's own questionable behavior does not constitute anything remotely resembling journalism.
I wonder if Mr. Delay was able to submit his questions to the Meet the Press crew prior to his appearance.
Sincerely,
David xxx
I hope someone reads it David......maybe Tim was hung over still from the party at Rummy's house.
OT: http://www.iraqwar.ru/iraq-read_...d=30016&
lang=en
WHICH Saddam did they catch?
On drugs and cars: I'd rather my kid drive after smoking as much pot as he wants than drink three beers and drive.
ATRIOS IS A LIBERAL
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